1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Christ Yeah, Welcome friends to the Christian O'Connell show podcast. 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 2: Jackie Boy, tell me how you feel in today? This 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: is an interesting and exciting moment for you. Jack's got 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 2: an interview on a podcast, a brilliant podcast, one of 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: the biggest ones in Australia called Imperfect and Jack is 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: a very deserved special guest on the brand new episode 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: out today. 8 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for saying. Man, If I'm honest, I have 9 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: a not in my stomach right now about it coming out. 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: It's a podcast I love. It's very vulnerable and open, 11 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: and I'm very happy to listen to other people be vulnerable 12 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: and open. But when it's you in that hot seat, 13 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: it's a very different experience, and I guess to that 14 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: I'm worried about just what the reaction would be for 15 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: people hearing it for the first time. I've spoken a 16 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: little bit about on this show about what I went 17 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: through when Gordon was born and I struggled with postnatal 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: depression and it was something that I didn't know what 19 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: it was at the time. I was very confused about 20 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: what was going on. It was very hard for me 21 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: to come into the show. It was a difficult period 22 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: of my life. And it's one thing to speak on 23 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: this show for ten minutes about it, but it's another 24 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: thing to sit down with those boys and speak at 25 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: length for over an hour about everything I've been through 26 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: over the last two years with Gordy and I don't 27 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: know you've been on the show. How did you feel 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: when it was coming out? 29 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: Terrified? Really really terrified, you know when I went on, 30 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: and they do a great podcast and they're really friendly guys, 31 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: But honestly, when you go into this room, it's like 32 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: an interrogation room, and it's not them. It's just that 33 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: it's black curtains everywhere, and then there's lights in front 34 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: of you, then there's cameras, and so it's one thing 35 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: to like write a vulnerable post or even you know, 36 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: write a book that I did a couple of years 37 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: ago about having panic attacks, then to go in there 38 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: and talk about it for about two hours right being recorded. 39 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: You're being vulnerable as well. You're aware that people are 40 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: going to be able to watch me cry, not just 41 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: hear it. Yes, and it's all happening in there gently 42 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: basically an open heart surgery. 43 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: It's like the integratory irrigation scenes out of Sas, except 44 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: they're not yelling at you. They're going tell me your 45 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: deepest keep going, story. 46 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: Going, keep going, and it's I found it. I feared 47 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: what people would think about me, and actually, I think, 48 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: what really is going on? Actually you're not worried about 49 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: other people think about There's still probably some shame around it. 50 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: There was so many a couple of years ago when 51 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: it came out and I actually found it. It was 52 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: equivalent to a couple of years of therapy. I feared 53 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: judgment Jack, and all I got was so many emails 54 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 2: still getting today about my episode two odd years ago. 55 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: I just got more and more connection because actually you 56 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: realize the more vulnerable you are, the deeper we connect 57 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: to people. And I've heard Jack's episode. I heard it 58 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: last week. It is incredible. This is a story of healing, 59 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: and you bravely go to heal. There was a loss 60 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: and a longing that you were feeling in your heart 61 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: for what happened when your son was bored. And it 62 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: will help people hear in this. They will I think 63 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: you'll normalize what it's like when we have tough times 64 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: in life, and no matter how you try and build 65 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: your life, to try and fly under the radio where 66 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: tough times won't come for you, they will. You're going 67 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: to find yourself from Tomas. You're going to find yourself 68 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: one day waking up and it feels like there's a 69 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: dark forest in your life and you don't know the 70 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: how a you're going to get out. Then you don't 71 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: even know how to go back to how it was. 72 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: And so the best thing you can do about that 73 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: is you've shared your story now. I mean, where you 74 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: are now is a magical pas karaoke with Gordon. 75 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's I'm a hugely different person who 76 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: I was two years ago in that moment. And that 77 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: is one of the feelings you feel when you struggling 78 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: with mental health or depression, is you feel so lonely 79 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: and isolated. You honestly feel like you are the only 80 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: person who feels this way. And the strange feelings I 81 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: had when I became a dad for the first time, 82 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: and you and pattern with lots of people I love 83 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: in my life who are parents, were saying, you'll love 84 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: Gordy so much, or you'll meet this new baby who 85 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: comes into your life and you'll love them like you've 86 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: never loved anything before. So I felt really strange when 87 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: that love and connection didn't come straight away from me, 88 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: and that made me feel really ashamed and made me 89 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: feel really isolated and a very difficult thing to talk about. 90 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: And it took me a long time to open up 91 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: to people in my family. It took me a long 92 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: time to and I thank god I finally told you 93 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: as well, because I was coming in here every day 94 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: pretending that I was fine, and I wasn't fine. So 95 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 1: we had a lot of long chats in this studio 96 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: after the show, and I'm very thankful for those conversations, 97 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: and it helped me realize that by talking about it, 98 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: you'd lift a lot of that shame off. And when 99 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: I talked about it for the first time on this 100 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: show and I got instead of people feeling like that 101 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: was a weird thing, I got a lot of messages 102 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: of support or messages of saying, hey, I went through this, 103 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: or my husband went through this, or my partner went 104 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: through this, and you're right, it only built connection. 105 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm an order of you what you've been through, Jack, 106 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: And also what a gift is When you've been through 107 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: a tough time and you heal and you grow, it 108 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: doesn't diminish you it actually makes you more of you. 109 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: You're you're a you're a more loving, open empathetic person 110 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: because of what happened to you. And when I heard 111 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: the interview right and I ased you order to hear 112 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: it today, right, this is a joyful story Jack. It's 113 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: like you had a tough time and then you went 114 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: and got help. Something wasn't right, and you actually did 115 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: the brave thing that most people don't want to do, 116 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: is you want you wanted to go and face yourself 117 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: whatever was there, and actually sit down opposite yourself and 118 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: work out what is happening here, what's going on? And 119 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 2: then you grew through it and actually, you know what, 120 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: I know. You know a couple of weeks ago, when 121 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: you first invited to go on, you must have thought 122 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: about saying no. 123 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: I did, like, screw that definitely the first thought when 124 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: the invite came in. 125 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah that no, No, an invitation to be vulnerable. No 126 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: fary easier to let your other people on the radio 127 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: about the importance of being vitable read my book. I 128 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: don't want to go and talk about it again. I'm 129 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: scared of being vulnerable, I said. He realized my wife 130 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: is going so let me restrang you. You've written a 131 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: book about the power of vulnerable. Yes, you talk about 132 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: it on the radio, but you don't want to go 133 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: and be vulnerable. No, but you expect other people to 134 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: be vulnerable. But you've done it, Jack, And what you 135 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: get throughout the whole chat with the boys is your 136 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: deep love for Gordon and your amazing wife as well. 137 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: Be glad, Oh my god. It shines through right a 138 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: from the beginning. And also because it's our boy, Jackie boy, 139 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: this is a very funny chat as well, all of 140 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 2: Jack is there. You will get something from the interview. 141 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: It's called the Imperfect, and I think it's a great title. 142 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: Sometimes we feel that we're broken and flawed in life, 143 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: but you're not. It's messy, it's hard being a human, 144 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: and sometimes the best thing we can do is share 145 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: those messy, hard stories where we feel like we're coming undone. 146 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: But you weren't coming undone. It was actually just you 147 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: were breaking through to the new Jack post. And as 148 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: I sit in front of you now, even us having 149 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: this conversation, Jack and I last week went for a 150 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: walk and sat on a bench talking about how you 151 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: might feel today and over the next couple of days. 152 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: But I think you might be surprised by the messages 153 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: you get as people will hear your story. It's a 154 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: beautiful story, mate, and I am in awe of the 155 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: people that you may never even meet, who are who 156 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: are going to get something from that chat chat so 157 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: well done. It's one thing to go through and grow 158 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: through it, and then to go and talk about it 159 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: for a long time with those boys and share it 160 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: with wait, the entire country and the world. That's some 161 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: real powerful vulnerability. So good on you, mate, You're a 162 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: shining example of what it is to be a man 163 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: to Gordon as well. 164 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: Oh, I appreciate it, and I appreciate the ongoing support 165 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: and even right up until the point where I did 166 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: the interview where you walked me from the radio station 167 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: here in Richmond to their studios in Collingwood, like mum 168 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: dropping me up at school on my first day of 169 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: being vulnerable, Your mum, what could you call me that? 170 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the supply. 171 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: I love our friendship, and I am in awe of 172 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: what you're what you're doing as well and showing up 173 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: for yourself and other people. Jack. It's called the imperfects. 174 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts you'll find it. Check it 175 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: out The Christian Connell Show podcast