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Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and

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Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples.

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Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and

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Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing

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Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are

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Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,

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Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness.

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Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. In twenty twenty, almost

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Speaker 3: seventy nine thousand marriages were registered in Australia and over

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Speaker 3: forty nine thousand divorces were granted. While we've dedicated an

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Speaker 3: episode in the past to safeguarding our finances in the

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Speaker 3: event of a divorce, one of the topics we yet

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Speaker 3: to have properly untangled is that of de facto relationships.

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Speaker 3: What happens if I split with my partner who lives

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Speaker 3: with me in the house that I own, How will

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Speaker 3: my super be impacted should we split, and most importantly,

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Speaker 3: how can I make sure my finances are protected? My

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Speaker 3: name is Georgia King, and joining me to help answer

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Speaker 3: these questions and plenty more is financial advisor Victoria Divine.

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Speaker 4: The Today we're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about the financial implications of de facto relationships. Why

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Speaker 3: do you think we need to be talking more openly

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Speaker 3: about this topic in a financial.

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Speaker 4: Context, because at the end of the day, ge de

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Speaker 4: facto actually here in Australia nowadays has exactly the same

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Speaker 4: rights that a married couple would have, but literally the name.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's really really important to have this

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Speaker 4: conversation because unfortunately you could be accidentally de facto, Like

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Speaker 4: that would be a really good podcast series, like accidentally

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Speaker 4: de facto and it's talking about all these boys who

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Speaker 4: were like not wanting to come in, but then you're

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Speaker 4: living with them for like three years and you're like

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Speaker 4: hashtag accidentally de facto.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the accident to facto. What I don't

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Speaker 3: know that we tried, you tried, thank you.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, if you're legally married,

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Speaker 4: or you're in a registered relationship, which is where you've

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Speaker 4: literally gone and registered the relationship with the Registry of Birth,

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Speaker 4: Deaths and Marriages, which did you know you could do that?

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Speaker 4: Bit you didn't know you could do that. Absolutely not No,

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Speaker 4: you can register your relationship, but you could actually just

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Speaker 4: be accidentally de facto and living with a partner and

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Speaker 4: you just didn't know that that's how you were categorized

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Speaker 4: until you break up and you realize, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 4: I was de facto and I have these rights or

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Speaker 4: vice versa. They come for you for something you oh,

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Speaker 4: and you're like, no, we were never de facto, but

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Speaker 4: legally you were. So it can be a little bit scary,

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Speaker 4: and being in a de facto relationship actually just means

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Speaker 4: that you're in a relationship that is legally binding. That's

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Speaker 4: a scary word when you make it that serious. Hey,

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Speaker 4: I would say so, so g A de facto relationship

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Speaker 4: is also legally binding in the event of a breakup,

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Speaker 4: which is why we're talking about it today. And this

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Speaker 4: means that you essentially have legal entitlements and rights if

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Speaker 4: your relationship ends. So we are here surprised to talk

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Speaker 4: to you today about what that means, how that works,

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Speaker 4: owning assets, getting rid of assets, getting rid of a

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Speaker 4: partner if you don't want them, and how to protect

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Speaker 4: yourself because from my perspective, that is the most important

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Speaker 4: thing you can do for yourself financially.

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Speaker 3: Is de facto in quotetion marks the same in each state?

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Speaker 3: Or do we have different definitions all over the shop?

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Speaker 4: Yes, sir, but the family law that actually governs de

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Speaker 4: facto relationships are slightly different in WA. So I do

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Speaker 4: apologize for all my friends over there. As always, you

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Speaker 4: guys know that everything we say on this podcast is

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Speaker 4: general advice, and if you're in this sticky situation, you

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Speaker 4: need to get advice. But essentially the biggest difference is

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Speaker 4: around superannuation and being able to split that up. And

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Speaker 4: in every state and territory except for WA, you are

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Speaker 4: able to request half your partner super whereas in WA

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Speaker 4: it's actually protected. So say you were married for like

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Speaker 4: thirty years and then you go, you know what, we're

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Speaker 4: going our separate ways. But you were a homemaker for

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Speaker 4: that entire period of time and your partner was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, fi fo and making bank and you know,

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Speaker 4: has this epic superbalance that is more than enough to

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Speaker 4: set you both up for life and for retirement. You're

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Speaker 4: actually not entitled to that, wild right?

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Speaker 2: Hang on?

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Speaker 3: Hang on? Was that WA or every other state?

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Speaker 4: WA?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Just Western Australia interesting, so every other state is up

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Speaker 4: to date on it except for Western Australia.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a case for that because some people

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Speaker 3: would be like, my super yeah, it's mine, etc.

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Speaker 4: Et cetera. But if you really want to get into

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Speaker 4: the conversation about sacrifice, relationships are not all about financial contributions.

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Speaker 4: It's about sacrifice and it's about equity exactly. Financial equity

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Speaker 4: and equity isn't just financial. And we did an entire

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Speaker 4: podcast on this because I am wildly passionate about making

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Speaker 4: sure that women in particular know their rights and also

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Speaker 4: know what they're giving up. And this is why I'm

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Speaker 4: so passionate about talking to you partner about well, are

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Speaker 4: you going to contribute to my super while I'm or

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Speaker 4: mattlee Because at the moment, matt leave doesn't include superannuation,

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Speaker 4: So you're taking a step back so your family can

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Speaker 4: take a step forward, but you're taking a step back financially.

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Speaker 4: When shouldn't that be a burden that both parties in

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Speaker 4: the relationship carry.

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Speaker 3: So before we get into the thick of things, let's

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Speaker 3: start by defining what de facto means, what types of

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Speaker 3: de facto relationships exist? Fd in case you're accidentally de

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Speaker 3: facto g correct monto. So, a de facto relationship is

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Speaker 3: when two people who are probably in love but they

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Speaker 3: don't have to be, but they're not married. They live

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Speaker 3: together or they live together as a couple on a

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Speaker 3: genuine domestic basis. As the definition is quite broad, and

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Speaker 3: when there is actually a dispute over property, assets or

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Speaker 3: partner support, it goes to court. The court is actually

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Speaker 3: going to look at a few things, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's worthy of bringing up right here. So they'll look

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Speaker 3: at one of three things. Firstly, that the couple was

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Speaker 3: in a de fact relationship for at least two years

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Speaker 3: or gee a child was born during their de facto relationship.

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Speaker 3: They will also look at the couple having lived at

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Speaker 3: least a third of their de facto relationship together in

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Speaker 3: Australia other than in Western Australia. Again, they have a

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Speaker 3: few different rules and regulations, and the couple separated after

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Speaker 3: the first of March two thousand and nine. Okay, new rules,

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Speaker 3: weird flex but okay, family Court. So just to be

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Speaker 3: really clear here, we're not talking housemates. There has to

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Speaker 3: be some kind of romantic entanglements commitments, Yes.

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Speaker 4: And usually that's a sexual relationship. So there's a few

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Speaker 4: things that they'll consider. They'll consider how long the relationship lasted,

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Speaker 4: if you two lived together, and for how long you know.

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Speaker 4: They might look at it and be like, mate, you

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Speaker 4: had separate bedrooms, you didn't have sex, you had separate

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Speaker 4: you know, lease agreements, etcetera, etcetera. You were basically housemates,

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Speaker 4: So you're not going to fall into this trap with

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Speaker 4: your housemate. Don't get too scared. They will look at

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Speaker 4: whether you were financially depend on each other and any

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Speaker 4: other types of arrangements you might have had between the

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Speaker 4: two of you for financial support. They might look at

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Speaker 4: property and see how it was owned and also how

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Speaker 4: it was used and how you came to own it.

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Speaker 4: So they might go, all right, well, G that came

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Speaker 4: from an inheritance, or G. You owned that way before

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Speaker 4: meeting them, or G. That person let you save while

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Speaker 4: you lived together by them paying more rents so you

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Speaker 4: could save for a property. So there are lots of

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Speaker 4: different factors in the property ownership side of things. They

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Speaker 4: will look at whether you had quote a commitment to

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Speaker 4: a shared life together. They'll look at how you cared

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Speaker 4: and supported for any children that you had, and they'll

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Speaker 4: also look at how other people saw your relationship. It's

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Speaker 4: spasif how do they do that? So they actually might

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Speaker 4: audit your social media. They can go through they can

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Speaker 4: get photos of you together. In situations I've seen where

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Speaker 4: people are applying for like residency here in Australia, I

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Speaker 4: know they've been asked to prove their relationships because it's

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Speaker 4: actually not uncommon for people to apply as like oh

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Speaker 4: i'm her waf yeah ha ha haa, please let me

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Speaker 4: into the country, like prove it. So they might ask

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Speaker 4: for pages and pages and pages of WhatsApp messages, or

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Speaker 4: they might ask for photos of you together or anniversary photos,

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Speaker 4: and most legitimate relationships gee have some kind of photographic

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Speaker 4: or paper trail, like there's stuff you've done together. It

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Speaker 4: might have been a webjet dot com don a you

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Speaker 4: booking where you both just flying to Tazzi together, but

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Speaker 4: that was like a trip you did together as a couple,

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Speaker 4: So it could be small. But they might actually go, hey,

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Speaker 4: how'd your friends and family see that? Can we interview them?

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Speaker 4: Because that happens, so we have skipped straight to the

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Speaker 4: messy breakup here. But so being like hey, Georgia King,

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Speaker 4: could you please come in and tell us how you

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Speaker 4: saw Victoria and Steven's relationship. I would have glowing things

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Speaker 4: to say, thank you, but you would tell them that

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Speaker 4: we were in fact in a relationship, right or well.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you would say.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you'd be like, but I was in the relationship. Hello,

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Speaker 3: it's me exactly what I wanted to talk about here.

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Speaker 3: V is something we talk about all the time that

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Speaker 3: she's on the money. And that's how integral it is

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Speaker 3: to have open and honest conversations with our partner. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: especially if we are in this de facto situation, this accidental,

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Speaker 3: de facto situation, de facto exactly.

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Speaker 4: I'm bringing it. I'm getting on board with it. I'm

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Speaker 4: not mad.

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Speaker 3: So tell me more about why it's so important in

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Speaker 3: this context.

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Speaker 4: It's so important because you could be compromised at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day. We need to be very clear

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Speaker 4: about who owns what and when and where. And I

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Speaker 4: know that it's not a conversation you want to have,

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Speaker 4: like no one wants to fall deeply in love and

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Speaker 4: then have things questioned like no one expects to, you know,

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Speaker 4: spend arguably, what's the average I think it's thirty six

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars here in Australia is the average cost of

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Speaker 4: a wedding. You don't spend that amount of money going

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Speaker 4: you know what, I'm going to get married to g King,

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Speaker 4: spend my thirty six grand and DIVORCEO three years later.

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Speaker 4: That is never the intention. So that's the thing that

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Speaker 4: makes people feel a bit icky when they want to go,

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Speaker 4: oh hey gee, so you know if we broke up,

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Speaker 4: what would this mean? Like that should always be a

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Speaker 4: conversation that you have. And I know it probably sounds

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Speaker 4: like a bit too much, but it should be exactly

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Speaker 4: how we approach conversations, regardless of whether it's financial or not.

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Speaker 4: If you're making a big life decision, I think that

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Speaker 4: we should be having open honess conversations with your partner.

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Speaker 4: And I probably take this a step too far because

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Speaker 4: when I got my cat, I was like, hey, cool,

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Speaker 4: so see this cat that's mine if we break up

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Speaker 4: and se was like, oh, okay, you can have any

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Speaker 4: I'm not going anywhere, and I was like, great, no problems.

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Speaker 4: Same thing happened with the dog. I was like, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to get this dog and if things don't work

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Speaker 4: out between the two of us. I'm just letting you

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Speaker 4: know that that is something that is mine. Let's agree

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Speaker 4: to it now. I'm sure he'd argue with me now

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Speaker 4: because it's very easy to say no, that's absolutely fine

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Speaker 4: Victoria before he was in love with the puppy. But

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Speaker 4: I think it's so important to have these conversations. And

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Speaker 4: it's not to say that we can't revisit that conversation

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Speaker 4: and renegotiate those terms, but we need to be having

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Speaker 4: those conversations about everything financial because if you're coming to

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Speaker 4: the relationship with the house, or you're coming to the

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Speaker 4: relationship with I don't know, gee, you're a little snap.

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Speaker 4: What if you got in this brand new relationship and

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Speaker 4: the partner that you got was just not good at

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Speaker 4: saving and your plan was to purchase a home. Is

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Speaker 4: that then their home or is that your home? Have

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Speaker 4: you had that conversation? And if not, I would be

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Speaker 4: having that conversation because it's really unfair for them to

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Speaker 4: then assume all I thought we were doing it together,

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Speaker 4: and in court that's what they'll say. Yeah, they'll go, oh,

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Speaker 4: but like G and I were in such a loving relationship,

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Speaker 4: and you know, we never talked about it because everything

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Speaker 4: we did we did together because we were so in love.

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Speaker 4: So we bought this house together because to them, you

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Speaker 4: brought the money to the table, but they were so

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Speaker 4: invested on that journey. And I think you really need

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Speaker 4: to draw the line, regardless of how icky that can feel,

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Speaker 4: because it can actually be really liberating. And I think

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Speaker 4: that a lot of people are viewing this from the

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Speaker 4: lens of oh yeah, that's so yuck, like I don't

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Speaker 4: want to have this conversation to my partner. But nobody

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Speaker 4: ever gets in a relationship with the intention of breaking up.

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Speaker 4: Nobody ever gets in a relationship with the intention of

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Speaker 4: losing an asset they worked their life for. No one

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Speaker 4: intends to, you know, have these really bad outcome But

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Speaker 4: do you know what's really empowering knowing every single day

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Speaker 4: what I owe, what I earn, what I spend, and

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Speaker 4: what I own, and knowing that the relationship I'm in

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Speaker 4: I'm choosing to be in not I'm so confused financially

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Speaker 4: about what would happen if, oh well, if I ask

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Speaker 4: Steve for a breakup, like what would he take? What

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Speaker 4: would I take? Like I always know where I'm standing,

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Speaker 4: and I always know exactly what I can take from

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Speaker 4: that relationship, and I think everybody else should too.

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Speaker 3: In terms of cementing this though, be because I'm sure

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Speaker 3: people would have conversations in the early days of their relationship.

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Speaker 3: You've said, you shotgun Henry. I should the worst happen.

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Speaker 4: You can have the house, you can have the car.

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Speaker 4: I just want the pets.

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Speaker 3: Do you have that in writing, though, because surely Steve

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Speaker 3: could dispute that if it wasn't written down no evidence.

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Speaker 4: He could absolutely dispute that. I'm more referencing that because

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Speaker 4: I'm like, it's important to have these conversations so that

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Speaker 4: you're always on the same page. But we did an

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Speaker 4: episode on binding financial agreements not that long ago, and

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Speaker 4: if you're interested in having that conversation, definitely do it.

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Speaker 4: T LDR. I do have a binding financial agreement with

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Speaker 4: my partner because it was really important to me, Like,

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Speaker 4: I can't just talk the talk, I've got to walk

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Speaker 4: the walk.

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Speaker 3: One hundred Okay, very interesting. I'm gonna put a little

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Speaker 3: little peg in the chat, a peg in the check

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Speaker 3: peg it right here, and then I BUMI the other

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Speaker 3: side of the break. We will be getting into the

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Speaker 3: nitty gritty of different kinds of scenarios, So please don't

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Speaker 3: go anywhere, guys already, let's dive into a few situations

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Speaker 3: here about how my relationship is going to affect or

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Speaker 3: be affected in certain situations. Genius, let's start with some

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Speaker 3: role play again. Well, maybe I don't know how things

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Speaker 3: will go. See that's a good part of relationships. Moving on, Saucy,

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Speaker 3: let's start with Centerlink.

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Speaker 4: Gee, I can't stop laughing. But if you are a

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Speaker 4: member of a couple, then it can actually affect what

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Speaker 4: payments you get and your payment rate, which is why

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Speaker 4: during university you probably had a lot of conversations about

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Speaker 4: people being like Central Link think, so I'm single, and

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Speaker 4: I say that because I feel like every second friend

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Speaker 4: I had at Uni was single and living with their

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Speaker 4: housemate and sharing a quote room because it made the

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Speaker 4: most financial sense to them. And I guess that's usually

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Speaker 4: our very first experience of what de facto looks like

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Speaker 4: and how it impacts us, and how that can actually

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Speaker 4: drag us down in a way, because if we are

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Speaker 4: de facto, our joint income is taken into consideration, and

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Speaker 4: sometimes that means that you don't get access to benefits

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Speaker 4: when really you should be getting access to benefits because

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Speaker 4: the de facto your relationship you're in is maybe new,

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Speaker 4: or maybe you're just both really young and you don't

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Speaker 4: want to be financially dependent on one another because situations

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Speaker 4: are so different. I'm absolutely not advocating for lying to sendslink.

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Speaker 4: I don't think anyone should do it, but it would

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Speaker 4: be a miss of me to not recognize that a

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Speaker 4: lot of people do, I guess quote gameless system because

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Speaker 4: it makes sense for them. Definitely not saying we should

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Speaker 4: do that. Moving on from that, Centilling generally consider you

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Speaker 4: a couple if you are one of the following quote

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Speaker 4: you have a partner, are married, in a registered relationship,

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Speaker 4: or you are de facto. You don't even necessarily need

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Speaker 4: to be living together for Sentilling to actually consider you

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Speaker 4: a couple, which sucks. But you might need to let

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Speaker 4: sentlingk know of your relationship status to make sure everything

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Speaker 4: is hunky dory. So I won't go over it too

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Speaker 4: much G But many of the way Sentilling considers whether

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Speaker 4: you're in a de facto relationship or not is exactly

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Speaker 4: the same way that the family courts would do that,

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Speaker 4: and we describe that in the first half of the episode.

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Speaker 4: But there are a few different rules. So first different

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Speaker 4: rule is if you are twenty one or younger and

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Speaker 4: getting the ABS, Study Living Allowance or youth allowance as

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Speaker 4: a student, or you are getting the Australian Apprentice Payment,

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Speaker 4: or you are twenty one and younger and getting youth

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Speaker 4: allowance as a job seeker, or you are twenty one

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Speaker 4: and getting a disability support pension, so all of those

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Speaker 4: things are treated a little bit differently, but important to

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Speaker 4: understand that it really does affect your payments, which, as

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Speaker 4: I said before, can be a little bit of a

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Speaker 4: kick in the guts if you're at UNI and you're

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Speaker 4: studying and you just really need the cash to get by.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, you said that even if you're not living together,

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Speaker 3: it can impact your finances.

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Speaker 4: As well well. Absolutely, because remember how we said if

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Speaker 4: you're financially dependent on one another, or your inter sexual relationship,

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Speaker 4: or you're romantically involved, like you don't necessarily have to

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Speaker 4: live with a person to think that they're your one

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Speaker 4: and only do you.

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Speaker 3: Let's move on to assets here, V say you and

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Speaker 3: I get married, I should be social lucky.

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Speaker 4: I should be so lucky. Half a move over.

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Speaker 3: What would you say the difference is between a pre

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Speaker 3: marital asset and a combined asset. I feel like they're

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Speaker 3: a little bit straightforward. Pre marital, pre marriage, pre relationship.

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Speaker 3: So pre marital assets are properties or assets that were

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Speaker 3: bought by a party before they got into the marriage

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Speaker 3: or before they got into a de facto relationship. The

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Speaker 3: asset might be in the form of real estate or

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Speaker 3: shares or bank deposits or any type of financial assets.

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Speaker 4: And then combined assets are classified as property owned by

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Speaker 4: you and your partner, So that doesn't necessarily mean that

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Speaker 4: a pre marital asset can't become a joint asset. Depending

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Speaker 4: on the conversations or the situation that you're in, that

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Speaker 4: either means that you own something directly with your partner

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Speaker 4: or you come to acquire something while in that relationship

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Speaker 4: in your individual name, which then goes into what's known

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Speaker 4: as a g Are you ready for this a matrimonial asset? Pool? Well,

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Speaker 4: fun fun pool, fun pool, let's go swimming. But these

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Speaker 4: can include things like the family home you buy, any

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Speaker 4: other real estate you might buy, cash, cars, other vehicles, investments,

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Speaker 4: and super entitlements. But not in Western Australia, and these

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Speaker 4: things aren't limited to just the big things. They could

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Speaker 4: also be household items like your fancy smag toaster. It

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Speaker 4: could be jewelry, it could be a trady boyfriend's tools.

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Speaker 4: It could be the value of a business that you

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Speaker 4: create in a relationship, which is one of the reasons

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Speaker 4: why I was a staunch advocate of a binding financial

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Speaker 4: agreement before I got into a relationship being a bit

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Speaker 4: personal now g because from my perspective, I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 4: I think I'm, you know, onto something here. I'm obsessed

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Speaker 4: with she's on the money. I don't think I'm a

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Speaker 4: half bad financial advisor. I think that Zella and She's

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Speaker 4: on the money. Over the next ten, twenty thirty, hopefully

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Speaker 4: fifty years will continue to grow. And I'm not naive,

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Speaker 4: like it's not as though I one hundred percent get

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Speaker 4: all of that if Steve and I break up, because

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Speaker 4: I do genuinely believe he puts a lot into our

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Speaker 4: relationship to enable me to grow those things. But I

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Speaker 4: want to own those things at the end of the day.

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Speaker 4: I don't want him to be my business partner. I

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Speaker 4: don't want half the shares to go straight to Steve

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Speaker 4: and I end up being in business with my ex husband,

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Speaker 4: Like that would suck. But we really needed to define that.

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Speaker 4: So it could be everything, and don't forget debt either,

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Speaker 4: g because it could be anything. It could be a

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Speaker 4: personal loan that you two get together to go on

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Speaker 4: a fancy holiday that you both will like super Pump

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Speaker 4: to go on. Or it could be that one party

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Speaker 4: in the relationship has a gambling in day and didn't

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Speaker 4: tell anyone and got a personal loan and it all

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Speaker 4: just racked up from there and they've got a couple

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00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,359
Speaker 4: of credit cards that you didn't know about. Could be

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Speaker 4: a shopping addiction. It could be literally anything, but if

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Speaker 4: it was made during the relationship, it's very likely to

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Speaker 4: be seen as a joint debt, which sucks and gets

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Speaker 4: me really on my high horse when we're talking about

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Speaker 4: abusive relationships, because as we've seen on Money Diaries, historically

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Speaker 4: there have been a number of women, and I'm sure

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Speaker 4: it happens to men as well, but on the She's

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Speaker 4: on the Money podcast, we've only ever had conversations with

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Speaker 4: women about this, But women who have been left with

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Speaker 4: massive debts because of their partners and have had to

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Speaker 4: pay it off because they were in the relationship, and

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Speaker 4: that sucks, and I think that there should be more

403
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Speaker 4: rules and regulations around that, because it is honestly absolute junk.

404
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Speaker 4: But I think it's really important to talk about because

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Speaker 4: if you created something in your relationship that's not a

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Speaker 4: pre marital asset, just because G did it well she

407
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Speaker 4: was married to V doesn't mean that V didn't again

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Speaker 4: put any equity into that asset.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Well on that note, then let's talk about

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Speaker 3: how we can protect ourselves and our assets in these situations.

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Speaker 4: We have good conversations. Oh, this is a really hard

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Speaker 4: one to say because again making this quite personal, because

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Speaker 4: the easiest way to describe things is for me to go, hey,

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Speaker 4: here's the situation, and the situation I know best happens

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Speaker 4: to be my own. But relationships sometimes pop up out

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Speaker 4: of nowhere. I totally get that Steve and I met

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Speaker 4: and then I think we decided that that was it

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Speaker 4: two weeks after we met, like, and that's very nice

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Speaker 4: and very exciting, But that doesn't leave a lot of

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Speaker 4: wiggle room to have those big conversations. So they came

421
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Speaker 4: laid down the track, and thankfully I was in a

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Speaker 4: relationship with someone who's really supportive and really understanding. But

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Speaker 4: I think we need to be quite wary of relationships.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to scare people. I don't want people

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Speaker 4: to be like, oh, biggie, you're right. I never getting

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Speaker 4: back on the dating apps. I promise you can find

427
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Speaker 4: someone good on there. Found Steve on there, so you

428
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Speaker 4: know that's one person who's had a very solid experience.

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Speaker 4: But having conversations early and having chats with your accountant

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Speaker 4: or people who are in your sphere of I guess

431
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Speaker 4: influence to make sure that they know what's up. Like

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Speaker 4: if you're buying a house and you know, as we

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Speaker 4: use that example before, G wants to buy a house,

434
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 4: but she gets into a relationship, start talking about that early.

435
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 4: Don't go on the house hunting journey with your partner

436
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 4: and go, oh my god, what about this one babe,

437
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 4: brah rah, get them so invested to then turn around

438
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 4: and be like, oh, you know, this isn't going to

439
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 4: be your house, right Like, I'm the one with all

440
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 4: the money, so obviously that's not going to be yours.

441
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 4: I think you need to make sure that there are

442
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 4: really clear boundaries from the beginning. Okay, Hey, I'm g

443
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 4: I'm going to be buying a house, partner, are you

444
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 4: okay with that? Understanding their financial situation and the journey

445
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 4: there on, and making sure that they're complimentary to one another,

446
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 4: because you might desperately want to own a home, but

447
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 4: your partner might go, please wait for me, and then

448
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 4: you make a decision together to wait for them to

449
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 4: save their part of the deposit, or they might go, oh,

450
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 4: I don't mind, go buy your own house. That's totally okay.

451
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 4: Document it. I think people really underestimate the I guess

452
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 4: value in just documenting things as well. I sound so

453
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 4: creepy like I'm trying to keep receipts on people, But

454
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 4: a paper trail, a pay per trail, is really important.

455
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 4: And regardless of whether you have a binding financial agreement

456
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 4: or not, you can rely on past communications. So if

457
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 4: you have been in a situation where you've had that conversation,

458
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 4: you can just shoot them a quick email and be like, hey,

459
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 4: just wrapping our conversation. I'm going to be buying a house.

460
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: It's going to be in my name. You aren't going

461
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 4: to be financially responsible for the mortgage. That means you're

462
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 4: not going to be financially able to take half of

463
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 4: it if we should ever break up. And I know

464
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 4: that that's not very sexy. What I promise being protected

465
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 4: is you need to be thinking with your head, not

466
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: your heart right and they're conflicting. They don't want the

467
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 4: same things. They don't know, they don't they never have.

468
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 4: So let's move on from that.

469
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: All right, they let's talk homelands. I have two scenarios

470
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: for you. The first, you and I are in a relationship.

471
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 3: I'm really pushing this.

472
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 4: And I'm picking up or you are pushing down.

473
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 3: We're applying for a loan together, yes, and we're going

474
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: to be co contributing to the mortgage.

475
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 4: Very nice.

476
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 3: How does our relationship impact that scenario?

477
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 4: Okay, so hot take from me is that both of

478
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 4: our financial circumstances are going to be taken into consideration.

479
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 4: In that circumstance, that could be my shopping addiction that

480
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 4: I have and I spend a lot on shoes, and

481
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 4: that could stop you, who's really good at budgeting and

482
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 4: cash flow, from being able to access as much money

483
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: as you might want, or even being able to get

484
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 4: a loan in the first place. So you really need

485
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 4: to make sure if you're going to get a loan

486
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 4: with your partner, you're not just you know, on the

487
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 4: same page, about the outcome. But you need to be

488
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 4: on the same page about your journey. And I always

489
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 4: recommend to my clients to start that journey six months

490
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 4: before you're purchasing. And I say that because that puts

491
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 4: you in the prime position to get your budgeting and

492
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: cash flow sorted out. Have a few tricky conversations, maybe

493
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 4: improve a credit score, get rid of I now pay

494
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 4: laters that you might want to get rid of. It

495
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 4: enables you to pay down some credit cards if you've

496
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 4: got them, and get on the right page. It also

497
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 4: enables you to put yourself in a position where you

498
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 4: are paying into a savings account exactly what you think

499
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: that mortgage or a payment might be, each and every

500
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 4: single month, so you can start getting into the motions

501
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: of quote paying the mortgage. Because too many times do

502
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 4: I see people in our community biting off more than

503
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 4: they can chew. Because if you go to a broker,

504
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 4: they're going to go, all right, GMV, we're so excited

505
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 4: to buy your first marital home, and this is how

506
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 4: much you can spend up to. And too many people

507
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 4: take that spend up to amount as gospel and they go, oh,

508
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 4: they said, we can borrow a million dollars. Gee, we

509
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 4: should spend a million dollars, But that might not actually

510
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 4: be the smartest thing for your cash flow, because what

511
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 4: that is saying is, with your current financial situation, you

512
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 4: have that money at your disposal so you can pay

513
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 4: that mortgage. But what it actually might mean is you're

514
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 4: on rice and noodles and you're not able to go

515
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 4: on any holidays. And yes, with your current financial situation,

516
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: you've been sacrificing for a really long time to get

517
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 4: that home deposit together, which means you might not have

518
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 4: done any of those things. You might not have eaten out,

519
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 4: and you're kind of waiting until you get to the

520
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 4: point where you're like, great, gee, we've got this mortgage.

521
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 4: Now we're going to pay the minimum repayments and we're

522
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 4: going to go and we're gonna go out for dinners

523
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 4: and we can get back to having holidays now we've

524
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 4: got the house. But your mortgage repayments might actually be

525
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: so much that you can't do that. So you need

526
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 4: to look at how much those mortgage repayments are going

527
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 4: to impact your lifestyle, and a good way of doing

528
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 4: that is six months before getting a mortgage, starting to

529
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 4: save that amount even if that is, you know, more

530
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 4: than what you think you'll spend. I think it gives

531
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 4: you a really good indication of what you could or

532
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 4: couldn't do. Does that make sense.

533
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially as a duo to kind of exactly what

534
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 3: another is doing.

535
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 4: It always looks really good to a bank if you go, hey, look,

536
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 4: we've been actually saving that amount because rent isn't taken

537
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 4: into consideration, which is a joke. But we've been saving

538
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 4: the amount that the mortgage is going to be for

539
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 4: the last six months, aren't we. You're responsible humans who

540
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 4: should be given a home loan.

541
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: Stunning. Let's move on to scenario two. Yes, sir, you

542
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: and I are in a relationship. Noyes just think about it, but.

543
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 4: You keep making me think about it and everybody else listening.

544
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: But here's the twist. Yeah, I'm the baller.

545
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 4: You are the baller.

546
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 3: You're just my little girlfriend. Anyway, I'm just your little girl.

547
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 3: Fair Well, I'm going wait to make me feel menial.

548
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 3: I'm going to be applying for a home loan all

549
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 3: my I don't like this power dynamic doing it all

550
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: by myself, and I feel repating at all. But you

551
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 3: might pay some rent in the future.

552
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 4: What about what about the cleaning I do, well, what

553
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 4: about the emotional support I give you?

554
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: Talk to me about that? What happens in that situation.

555
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 4: So that's a really hard situation because if you're in

556
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 4: a de facto relationship, your partner's spending and your partner's

557
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: income is still going to be taken into consideration. And

558
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: I think it is an absolute joke. Even if you

559
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 4: are one hundred percent financially independent, saying you are in

560
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 4: a position where you have a partner is going to

561
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 4: mean that the banks are going to want to know

562
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: what position your partner is in, because the banks are

563
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 4: going to assume and I know that this sounds really unfair,

564
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 4: but there's good reason to their rhyme. What if your

565
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 4: partner lost their job. Ge, if I went out and

566
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 4: I got fired, you would then, hopefully, as my partner,

567
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: go don't worry the I've got us. So the bank

568
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 4: needs to take that situation into consideration. Whether I've been

569
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 4: made redundant or lose my job, or you know, get

570
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 4: ill or injured or something happens, that is a risk

571
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 4: that the bank is taking into consideration. So pragmatically, I

572
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 4: completely understand it. But I have a friend going through

573
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 4: that exact situation at the moment, and the amount that

574
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 4: they're able to borrow is like, I think eighty thousand

575
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 4: dollars less than what it would be if they had

576
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 4: applied as a single person with no de factor relation. Really, yeah,

577
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: it's a joke. And I say it's a joke because

578
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 4: they obviously think it's really unfair. I think it's really unfair,

579
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: and it's putting them in a position where they can't

580
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 4: buy what they want to buy, but they can afford it,

581
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: and they're completely financially independent of their partner. But because

582
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 4: they've lived together and they had a factor and they're

583
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: doing the right thing and telling the broker that there's

584
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 4: not much you can do. Apologize if you've already answered this.

585
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 4: But what if I'm just thinking of a mate of mine.

586
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 4: What if you've been with someone for three years?

587
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've lived together for two in a house that

588
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: they own, yep, then you break up suddenly, Yeah, what

589
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 3: is my friend in title too? From a financial position, so.

590
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 4: It completely depends on the situation, how much they lent

591
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 4: on each other financially, whether they were thinking that they

592
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 4: were contributing to that mortgage or not, whether they were

593
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 4: very clear from the get go, like I've got a

594
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: mate who bought a property in Richmond, and she turned

595
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 4: around and was like, all right, if you're my boyfriend

596
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 4: and you're moving in, you're paying rent. Here's your rental agreement,

597
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: and made it crystal clear that they were never contributing

598
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 4: to them. More so in that situation, it's a little

599
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: bit clearer, but as a base, if you know, the

600
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 4: proverbial hit the fan and they ended up in family court.

601
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: The family court actually starts at a fifty to fifty

602
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 4: basis and then goes back and forth from there.

603
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: Interesting.

604
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: It's terrifying, right, yeah, it is.

605
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: It is.

606
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 4: It's scary, and I think that's why we should be

607
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 4: having these open, honest conversations when we're both in our

608
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 4: right mind. Like g we are so deeply in love

609
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: with one another, which is why we should be talking

610
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 4: today about, well, gee, what happens if you know, we

611
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: break up? Because right now I am going to assume

612
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: that you want the best for me and I want

613
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: the best for you, So let's document that outcome, and

614
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 4: even if we break up, I don't want to have

615
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 4: that conversation with you when I've worked out that you've

616
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 4: cheated on me with Jess, Like yeah, oh yeah, but

617
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: let's just go back to the document that we drew

618
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 4: up where we both wanted the best for each other

619
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 4: and rely on that regardless of the situation that's making

620
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: us really bitter at that point in time.

621
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: So that could be a BFA or could be a

622
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 3: rental agreement.

623
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 4: Yes, and even if you don't want to go and

624
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 4: get a BFA, which I obviously very very much endorseed.

625
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: So that's a binding financial agreement, even writing it out

626
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: and going all right, gee, let's just ride out our

627
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 4: own binding financial agreement because we can't afford the lawyers,

628
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 4: We can't afford to go and have it set up.

629
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: Let's just find a template online.

630
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: I do genuinely believe that that is better than nothing, Like,

631
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 3: if you can't afford the actual document, I totally understand

632
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 3: that it is an investment, and I hope it's an

633
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: investment that doesn't pay a fitself right like, And I

634
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: say that kindly because I.

635
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 4: Don't want you to have to break up. I don't

636
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: want you to have to lean on that, but it

637
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 4: would be an investment in peace of mind. But if

638
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: you can't afford that that's okay. Let's just draw up

639
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 4: what we have and in the future we can take

640
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 4: that to a lawyer and get that drawn up when

641
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 4: we're more financially stable.

642
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: Let's move on now, V and talk about super. Oh

643
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: a sexy topic is that saying my favorite of all

644
00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: the tax structures.

645
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: Super is my favorite.

646
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: Say again, it's you and I. We split up, We're

647
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: in a de factor relationship and it ends. How does

648
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: super come into the fold if it's something that we

649
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: can't access for another fifty years.

650
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 4: So it can be taken into consideration when the family

651
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: courts come to play. So it is not safe and

652
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: locked away from your partner sadly, so after separation, supranuation

653
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: is treated as property. It's essentially a property under the

654
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 4: Family Law Act. However, as we said before, that's very

655
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 4: different in WA. So please please please, wherever you are

656
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 4: if you're going through this, get advice. But it is

657
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: different from other types of property because that asset is

658
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 4: being held in trust. So, as I mentioned before, superranuation

659
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 4: is my favorite tax structure. Supranuation is not an investment,

660
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 4: but when you put your money into that tax structure,

661
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 4: you then therefore invest that money, and that is the

662
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: asset that the family court looks at and goes, all right, well,

663
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 4: we probably should divide it. And again, the family court

664
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 4: usually starts with a fifty to fifty basis and then

665
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: like that's back and forth from there, which I think

666
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 4: is a fair starting point, but not everybody sees it

667
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: that way. So, as I said before, g the laws

668
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 4: to splitting supranuation applies to everybody except for our friends

669
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: in way who aren't actually eligible to split supranuation, which

670
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: I think is a joke. Like, honestly, can you imagine

671
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two a woman not being able to access,

672
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 4: or anybody for that matter, not being able to access

673
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 4: the superannuation of their partner that they supported all the

674
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 4: way through their career.

675
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: Does seem like a pretty outdated, archaic way of doing it.

676
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: It just seems a bit wild. And I know that

677
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 4: a lot of people listening to this are going to

678
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 4: be like Va, I'm in my twenties, like my maner

679
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 4: has not much supers so like, I don't care about it.

680
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 4: They're not the people that I'm worried about. I'm worried

681
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: about the women who are currently experiencing massive amounts of

682
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 4: disadvantage and knowing the current statistics that say the biggest

683
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness is women over the

684
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 4: age of fifty five. I genuinely believe that this discrepancy

685
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 4: and this I guess power imbalance has a lot to say.

686
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 4: And then the fact that these women who are going

687
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: through a divorce, who are experiencing homelessness are not able

688
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 4: to access superannuation. No, no, sir, to me, that's wild.

689
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 4: So I get it. If you're twenty and you're like,

690
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 4: that doesn't worry me. I broke up with him, Good riddance.

691
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 4: I don't want his super I get that, But there

692
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: are a lot of people who are significantly disadvantaged by that.

693
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: Let's talk now, VI about trusts. Surely they're owned by

694
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: the individual and aren't going.

695
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: To be oh, you know, everything is fair game. I

696
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: think it's a very is outdated the right word here,

697
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: I don't think it is. It's a very American view

698
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 4: to think you can hide assets from your partner, you

699
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 4: know how an American TV shows that like, oh my god,

700
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: put it in a trust and she won't be able

701
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 4: to access it, or like right before in American TV,

702
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: right before they ask their wife for a divorce, they

703
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 4: like hide all their shit, or the wife finds that

704
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: the husband's cheating and she's like, oh my god, I'm

705
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: going to go see a lawyer before he figures it out.

706
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 4: I'm going to move this and this. That doesn't happen

707
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 4: in Australia. In Australia it is completely transparent. You can't

708
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 4: hide anything from the family courts, which I think is very,

709
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 4: very important and is another reason why our system is

710
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 4: better than America's. But as I said, massive misconception that

711
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 4: assets that are owned in quote a discretionary trust will

712
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 4: not form part of the property pool available for division

713
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: between the spouses. As I said before, the starting point

714
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: is always fifty to fifty and then they go back

715
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 4: and forth from there. It's also super common for separated

716
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: spouses or separated partners to argue about whether a trust

717
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 4: forms part of the property pool because they think that

718
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: that's a protected asset. They're like, no, that's a trust,

719
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 4: that's mine, rah rah, because they see it as a

720
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: resource that is ultimately entirely theirs, when that's just not

721
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 4: the case. But again, this all completely depends on the

722
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 4: nature of the spouse's interest and their degree of control

723
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 4: over the trust and how all of that works. But no,

724
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: there's always, always, always visibility in these things. Even if

725
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 4: like let's say that you and I we were do

726
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 4: you know what we're going to become. We're going to

727
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 4: become property investing moguls g And what we do is

728
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 4: we go and establish a trust because we're like genius

729
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 4: a trust to keep all our properties. That sounds genius,

730
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 4: But you're the director and you're the person who set

731
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 4: it up, and somehow I just got completely missed. That

732
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 4: doesn't mean I'm going to miss out because you had

733
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 4: to put that asset on the table, so you can't

734
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: screw me over. It is harder because obviously if it's

735
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 4: one hundred percent in your name, there's probably a lot

736
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: of hurdles that would have to go over in the

737
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 4: legal system. But at the end of the day, thankfully

738
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 4: we live in a world where everything is transparent.

739
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: Sophy, are we out.

740
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 4: Of the woods?

741
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: If you and I break out? Like what if we

742
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 3: have a BFA we sorted, what's the deal?

743
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 4: Who knows? Maybe did you cheat on me? I don't

744
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 4: know how savage I'm going to be about this breakup?

745
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: Was it mutual? Did I ask for it. You don't know, Okay,

746
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 4: no you did. I did. I did cheat?

747
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: You did?

748
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: You didn't. I wouldn't do that to you. Well you

749
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 4: never know, though, you never know. Oh my gosh. I've

750
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: just been watching a new Netflix series where a guy

751
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: kind of remember what it's called, but the guy cheats

752
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: on his wife and he's in politics, The.

753
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: Anatomy of a Scandal.

754
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 4: Yes, I just sashed it.

755
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: I started watching it in the bar.

756
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: It's absolutely trash. I was very unhappy with how that ended.

757
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 4: But that's a very interesting plug. Anatomy of a Scandal

758
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: on I think it's Netflix.

759
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 3: Check it out.

760
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 4: It's awful Netflix. Do you know what? It's very easy

761
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: to waste time. And it was kind of pervy as well,

762
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 4: because like.

763
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 3: And Ciana Miller, isn't it who doesn't know?

764
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 4: She's so at the end of the day, g if

765
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 4: you do actually have a binding financial agreement that has

766
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 4: been prepared by a lawyer, not just one that you've

767
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 4: downloaded and put in your emails for a paper trail,

768
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 4: which I said, I think is a very good option.

769
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 4: If you can't afford a binding financial agreement that would

770
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 4: be able to sort out your property and maintenance according

771
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 4: to that agreement, the next best thing is, you know,

772
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 4: having that paper trail, because gee, as we always say,

773
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter if you can afford it or not.

774
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 4: There's always another option that you can pursue. I think

775
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 4: it's really naive of us to go, oh, gee, we

776
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 4: can't afford a binding financial agreement, so therefore we're just

777
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 4: not going to do it. I think that that is

778
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 4: really detrimental and let's just do the next best thing.

779
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, I need to

780
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: be brutally honest, and if everything goes south and you

781
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 4: and I are fighting like cat and dog, and I

782
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 4: now want the worst for you and you want the

783
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 4: worst for me. A binding financial agreement can be challenged

784
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,959
Speaker 4: in Australia. Unfortunately, it is not like a prenup, which

785
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 4: usually can't be challenged in the US, But in Australia

786
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: you can challenge them. It obviously would involve court fees

787
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 4: and actually being quite dramatic about it. But sometimes people

788
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 4: believe it is worth it, and that is okay, each

789
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 4: to their own. And I think that if you think

790
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 4: that you're binding financial agreement that you set up at

791
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 4: the start of a relationship is no longer putting everybody

792
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: in the best possible position. Then yes, I do think

793
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 4: you should challenge it, but not just to be bitter

794
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 4: about it. But that's just my own personal take. But

795
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I just think that

796
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: having as many things documented as possible is the key

797
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 4: to success.

798
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: Okay, V My last question, maybe it's a dark one,

799
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: so shoot me. You are really dark this week though,

800
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 3: I am. I am. So we're in a de facto relationship.

801
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: Sadly one of us passes away. What is me other partner?

802
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 3: You're trying to kill me or well maybe you're trying.

803
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: But essentially, you have the same rights as a married

804
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 3: person nowadays, which is very cool because for a very

805
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: long time, if you were just the boyfriend of you know,

806
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 3: a partner for the last thirty years, you weren't entitled

807
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: to the same rights as a married person because historically

808
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: you might not have been able to marry your partner.

809
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 3: So nowadays you are entitled to exactly the same rights,

810
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: and I think that that is perfect. And this includes

811
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: rights and entitlements that regard the following g I've listed

812
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 3: them out to make them super speedy at the end.

813
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: Number one, a share of an estate where no will exists,

814
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: that is, and we discuss this on the episode with

815
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: Lucy about wills and estate planning. So go and find

816
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: that your partner dies in test state. That means they

817
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 3: have no will and no estate plan. Number two, I've

818
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 3: written down the right to challenge a will if you're

819
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: not adequately provided for. So for example, if your partner

820
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 3: of Rota will ages ago, didn't think about it, got

821
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: in this de fact a relationship. You and your partner

822
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: are five years into a relationship, you have a two

823
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 3: and a three year old, life's pretty hectic, and their

824
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: will says that one hundred percent of their assets go

825
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: to their parents. You can absolutely say probably not though,

826
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 3: because I have two small children to provide. Four or

827
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: maybe you're a stay at home girlfriend or a stay

828
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: at home boyfriend, or they are significantly financially responsible for

829
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: you or number three receive compensation entitlements under workers' compensation

830
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: law if your partner dies during the course of employment,

831
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 3: and number four you will be able to claim their

832
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: Social Security entitlements. Okay, that's a very dark place to

833
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: leave it, but it's a little bit very important. If

834
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 3: you haven't listened to our binding financial agreement episode. Go

835
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: and listen to that. If you haven't listened to Our

836
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: Wills an estate planning episode with our friend Lucy Percy

837
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: from Head and Heart estate Planning, who is an absolute delight,

838
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: go and listen to that, because there is so much

839
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: information in that that is going to put you in

840
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: the best possible position, which is all I want. Perfect

841
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 3: all right, So moral of the story, you're probably entitled

842
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: to more than you think in a de facto relationship. Absolutely,

843
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 3: it's important we use our head and not our heart

844
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: though it can be hard.

845
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 4: And yeah, it can be hard. That's very moving gee.

846
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: And finally, it's really really important to keep a paper

847
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: trail along the journey.

848
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: Absolutely, because I don't want people to think that I'm

849
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 4: super entitled recommending a binding financial agreement, because then you're like, great,

850
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 4: v I want to set one up, and I'm like, okay, cool,

851
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 4: it's going to be more than a thousand dollars and

852
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 4: you're like, well, I don't have more than a thousand dollars,

853
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 4: but I still want to be protected in my relationship,

854
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: and the family courts are going to look really I

855
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 4: guess fondly on that and go, okay, cool, here's all

856
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 4: this evidence, let's sort it out. Let's actually look at

857
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 4: this and a paper trail, regardless of what you're going through,

858
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: whether that is a relationship, an argument, an employment situation

859
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 4: like pay per trails are just in and if you

860
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 4: don't use them, great, they're just sitting in your room

861
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 4: box exactly. No harm done, my.

862
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: Friend, perfection.

863
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 4: We have a boring style.

864
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

865
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 3: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general

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00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's

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00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should

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00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: not be relied upon to make an investment or a

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00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 3: financial decision. No so, and we promise. Victoria Divine is

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Speaker 3: an authorized representative of Infocused Securities Australia propriet You Limited

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Speaker 3: ABN four seven zero nine seven seven nine seven zero

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Speaker 3: four nine AFSL two three six five two three And

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Speaker 3: as always, we would love it if you joined our

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Speaker 3: Facebook group, where our community shares money tips and tricks

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Speaker 3: every single.

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Speaker 4: Day of the week.

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Speaker 3: Just search She's on the Money on Facebook and please

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Speaker 3: join us.

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Speaker 4: If Facebook's not your thing, you can also find us

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Speaker 4: on Instagram and embarrassingly enough, on TikTok. At she's on

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Speaker 4: the money a US and as always, don't forget to rate, review, subscribe.

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00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 3: That's a little review.

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Speaker 4: I've been on the reviews lately.

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00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: Three good ones and I.

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00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 4: Always need don't leave that ones that make steek crack.

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Speaker 1: Bye.