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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you're in the car and you're freaking out

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Speaker 2: because you're going to be late and everything's happening, it's

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Speaker 2: really hard to remember.

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Speaker 3: Oh, and this is my opportunity to be mindful.

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Speaker 2: I need to just take some deep breaths and get

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Speaker 2: back into that zen sort of space.

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Speaker 3: But that's where we need to go.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au and dad to six kids

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Speaker 2: who we share I share with my wife and mum

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Speaker 2: to those six kids, Kylie, who is with me today?

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Speaker 3: Did I make that harder than it needed to be?

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Speaker 3: Just a little bit? I kind of feel like I say.

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Speaker 4: That, I know that if you want to take all

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Speaker 4: the credit, you have to take all the blame as well.

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Speaker 3: Right, thank you for that. It's the twelfth of Is

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Speaker 3: it the twelfth or the twelfth?

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Speaker 2: Is there an f in there? I'm going to have

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Speaker 2: to google this. Is it the twelfth or the twelfth?

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Speaker 4: The twelfth?

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Speaker 3: I didn't hear it in that.

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Speaker 2: I just heard you say twelfth. Is it like that

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Speaker 2: there is a there's an F in there, so there

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Speaker 2: is there is a say it, come on twelfth. You're

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Speaker 2: sort of I'm not hearing the F You're not supposed to,

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Speaker 2: so should I be saying twelfth?

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Speaker 3: Is it the twelfth? Or is it the twelfth?

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Speaker 4: Are you going to make everything hard today? Maybe I

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Speaker 4: just wight everything? Okay, Hey, yah, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 4: I'm so sorry to have done that to you. I

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Speaker 4: don't know where it came from, but I'm sure there'll

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Speaker 4: be plenty of English teachers out there prepared to teach

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Speaker 4: you how to say it Jewish Day.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not. How did you say that Tuesday? Well,

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Speaker 3: like you're choosing which day it is Tuesday? Tuesday?

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Speaker 4: But our eight year old is very adamant that it's Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but our eight year old also says can't instead

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Speaker 2: of can't, I can't do this?

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Speaker 3: Where are you getting this American stuff from?

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Speaker 1: That?

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Speaker 3: Can't?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 3: Do you I just say Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: There have been two teachers in our kids schooling who

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Speaker 4: have all been very adamant about Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's not Tuesday, it's Tuesday, said.

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Speaker 3: Don't think too much about it.

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Speaker 2: So like when you've got to walk somewhere Tuesday to

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Speaker 2: It's like when you've got to walk in front of people,

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Speaker 2: like walk across the stage. You know how to walk,

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Speaker 2: You've been walking your entire life. But have you ever

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Speaker 2: had to walk in front of an audience and suddenly

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Speaker 2: you're like, I'm not sure if I can do this now.

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Speaker 4: No, I've never had that experience.

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Speaker 3: Happens to me all the time. Tuesday, Tuesday, No, it's

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Speaker 3: not Tuesday. Let's get on with the podcast. Is that? Okay? Hello,

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Speaker 3: we've already done the intro. We have have we? Okay? Great?

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Speaker 3: Please forgive us. This is just this is how we

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Speaker 3: love you.

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Speaker 4: You didn't intro me?

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Speaker 3: Who are you?

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Speaker 2: We have to we have to do a podcast here.

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Speaker 2: I've been looking at some science lately and I want

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Speaker 2: to share it. This is a Doctor's Desk episode about

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Speaker 2: once a month we dive into the latest research, have

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Speaker 2: a look at what scientists are discovering about how to

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Speaker 2: make our parenting lives better or giving us food for

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Speaker 2: thought in case we need to make any big and

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Speaker 2: intentional decisions about what's going to happen with us and

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Speaker 2: our children. A new study just published this one in

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Speaker 2: the International Journal of Behavioral Medicine, and it's related to

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Speaker 2: mindfulness which has been the buzzword in pop psychology for

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Speaker 2: probably the last i'd say ten years, maybe a little longer,

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Speaker 2: maybe the last fifteen years. Everyone's been going on about mindfulness.

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Speaker 2: Mindfulness does everything, and it seems that this latest study

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Speaker 2: conducted with pregnant mums doesn't quite do everything after all.

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Speaker 2: So we know that if you get stressed, it can

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Speaker 2: be associated with it can actually lead to excessive weight gain.

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Speaker 2: And if there's going to be weight gain, pregnancy is

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Speaker 2: a time where this can really happen, like it's going

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Speaker 2: to happen naturally.

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Speaker 4: It's the time when you are most stressed, well potentially

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Speaker 4: your body is most stressed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But we're not talking about the natural, healthy weight

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Speaker 2: gain that comes with pregnant, So we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: excessive weight gain that some people can experience, and like

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Speaker 2: you said, pregnancy is a time where that can occur.

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Speaker 3: So these researchers got a bunch of.

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Speaker 2: Pregnant women, one hundred and fifteen of them, and they

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Speaker 2: did some mindfulness training and what they were interested in

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Speaker 2: discovering was whether or not mindfulness could help the pregnant mums,

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Speaker 2: the expectant mums to be less stressed, to eat more healthily,

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Speaker 2: and they basically wanted to have a look at what

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Speaker 2: their overall weight gain would be. So they had one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen mums that went to the mindfulness training

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Speaker 2: for eight weeks.

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Speaker 3: They had one hundred and five.

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Speaker 2: Mums who were the same socioeconomic status and same weight

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Speaker 2: equivalency having treatment as usual. And what they found was

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Speaker 2: that the mums who had the mindfulness training did experience

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Speaker 2: less stress, well, less depression.

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Speaker 3: They experienced less depression.

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Speaker 4: And less stress and anxiety.

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Speaker 3: You've been reading the science, You've been reading the study. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but pick out keywords.

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Speaker 2: But it didn't have any impact on their weight gain

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Speaker 2: at all. They experienced the same levels of excessive weight gain,

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Speaker 2: not just regular weight gain, but excessive weight gain as

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Speaker 2: the control group. And so I think it's just an

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Speaker 2: interesting one to be mindful of, if I can use

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Speaker 2: that term. Mindfulness can do stuff, but it can't do

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Speaker 2: all the stuff. Mindfulness does have a relationship with the

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Speaker 2: extent to which we experience stress, depression and anxiety, but

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Speaker 2: it's not the I don't know, it's not the thing

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Speaker 2: that makes everything all better all the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this intrigues me a little bit because I never

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Speaker 4: would have thought that it did. When I think of mindfulness,

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Speaker 4: I think of, I guess, the ability to calm right

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Speaker 4: my own mind and to be able to work through

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Speaker 4: that those thought processes that would lead to anxiety, stress,

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Speaker 4: or depression.

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Speaker 2: So that's a healthy approach to mindfulness. Unfortunately, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk more about this in a sec but

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Speaker 2: there have been a lot of people who have made

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Speaker 2: a bunch of planes.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like essential oilsial.

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Speaker 2: Oyals, no doubt, can do stuff for you to make

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Speaker 2: you feel better about life, but they can't do everything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was one essential oil company recently there

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Speaker 2: was in the news for claiming that it could help

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Speaker 2: with COVID, it could cure COVID. Some people just take

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Speaker 2: these claims a little bit too far. Here's another mind

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Speaker 2: from the study that caught my attention though, and again

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Speaker 2: talking about young mums infants, well actually not young mums,

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Speaker 2: but young mums and their babies. Infants whose mums participated

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Speaker 2: in a mindful their Space program during their pregnancies had

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Speaker 2: healthier stress responses at six months old. Now, I find

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Speaker 2: this fascinating.

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Speaker 4: So not the mum, as we're talking about the infant.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: So this is the first known study that shows that

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Speaker 2: a parental intervention can improve the health outcomes of the child.

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Speaker 2: And they were looking at what they call autonomic nervous

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Speaker 2: system responses. So what the researches essentially have done is

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Speaker 2: they've studied one hundred and thirty five mum and bub

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Speaker 2: diads gave them an eight week mindfulness based program, So

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Speaker 2: eight weeks seems to be about the standard in these

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Speaker 2: current situations, and they found that those little babies had

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Speaker 2: a faster cardiovascular recovery from something that was stress inducing,

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Speaker 2: as well as more self soothing behaviors than the kids

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Speaker 2: whose mums didn't go through the mindfulness intervention. I find

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Speaker 2: this extraordinary, so so interesting.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not scientific by any stretch, but I remember

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Speaker 4: all of the conversations that I had as a young mum,

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Speaker 4: where you know, all of those feel good things would

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Speaker 4: be passed through my milk to my baby. So this

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Speaker 4: feels like a scientific way of telling me that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, although this is not milk related, what I would

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Speaker 2: guess is happening here and I don't have a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of additional data, and the researchers didn't really make

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Speaker 2: too many hypotheses about this either. They've basically said, we've

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Speaker 2: done this, here's what's happened. But I think that the

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Speaker 2: reason for it is that when you've got a calmer mum,

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Speaker 2: you have a calmer baby.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, emotions are catchy, right, and that's the I

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Speaker 4: guess that's the reality. The conversations that I had as

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Speaker 4: a young mum with professionals was very much about if

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Speaker 4: I can lower my anxiety levels, and I guess the

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Speaker 4: way I respond in different situations and my baby's going

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Speaker 4: to respond totally different.

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Speaker 2: So the critical thing as a take home message from

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Speaker 2: both of these studies is number one, don't expect that

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Speaker 2: mindfulness is going to be the cure all but it

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Speaker 2: can be helpful for reducing stress and anxiety for a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of people who may not otherwise be mindful.

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Speaker 2: The trick is learning how to be more mindful. Now

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Speaker 2: that's probably another podcast in and of itself. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we can dive into that right now. But the

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Speaker 2: evidence is there that suggests that it's good for you

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Speaker 2: and it's good for your kids, even from the time

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Speaker 2: they're born, even when they're in utero, and certainly over

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Speaker 2: that subsequent six months. You and I both know that

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Speaker 2: when we're more mindful, when we're more calm, our children thrive.

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Speaker 2: They do better as well, even though they're all grown up.

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Speaker 2: In fact, you and I like being around each other

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Speaker 2: more when we're more mindful and more present.

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Speaker 3: It's just a fact of life.

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Speaker 4: Well, I know you said there's not a lot of time,

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Speaker 4: but this is the podcast for a time poor parent

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Speaker 4: who just wants answers. Have you got at least one tip.

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Speaker 3: After the break?

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Speaker 2: Neurodiverse children are beautiful, but they also bring unique challenges

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Speaker 2: for parents and educators. The world does not always accommodate

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Speaker 2: them easily or well. Communication, affection, behavior, learning, and almost

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Speaker 2: every other aspect of life can be challenging for the

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Speaker 2: child and their families. The webinar A Parent's Guide to

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Speaker 2: Autism by leading autism expert Michelle Garnett can help parents

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Speaker 2: and educators strengthen the bond with their autistic children for

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Speaker 2: better outcomes for children and families. A Parent's Guide to

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Speaker 2: Autism is available at Happy Families dot com dot a U.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just want answers. Now, you're such a tease.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean I'm such a teas after the

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Speaker 3: break for the break.

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Speaker 4: What is one thing that parents can practice in being

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Speaker 4: more mindful to reduce and lower stress and anxiety levels.

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Speaker 2: The simplest thing is just breathing. I mean, it's so simple,

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Speaker 2: and people roll their eyes like as if I'm going

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Speaker 2: to breathe and that's going to make it all better,

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Speaker 2: But it actually does. Breathe in for five seconds three

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Speaker 2: and o's hold it for five seconds, breathe out for

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Speaker 2: five seconds three.

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Speaker 3: Your mouth just makes everything feel better. Full stop. End

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Speaker 3: of story. Breathing simple. There are much more advanced and

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Speaker 3: sophisticated mind from the strategies. You can google them. They're

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Speaker 3: all over the place.

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Speaker 2: I share them with parents regularly as well in other

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Speaker 2: contexts and in my webinars and things.

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Speaker 3: But just breathe. Just focus on the here and now

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Speaker 3: a second one. Here's another really quick one. Because you

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Speaker 3: look at me like you're not satisfied.

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Speaker 4: No, I was going to explain breathing because I think

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Speaker 4: it's really important.

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Speaker 3: Okay, explain breathing.

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Speaker 4: When I went to eat in about six months ago.

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Speaker 4: They helped me understand the power of breathing. When we

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Speaker 4: get stressed and we're anxious, what happens to our breathing.

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Speaker 3: It gets faster, it gets shallower.

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Speaker 4: Totally, and what that signals to our body is that

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Speaker 4: we are not safe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so when we are mindful about our breath and

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Speaker 4: we take the time to slow it down, what we

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Speaker 4: actually send the message to our body is that we

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Speaker 4: are safe where we've got this under control. So even

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Speaker 4: when the situation is stressful, if we're able to lower that,

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Speaker 4: we actually are telling ourselves and telling our body physiologically

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Speaker 4: we are safe. And for most of us, we're not

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Speaker 4: being chased by a Tyrannosaurus rex.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that there's that meeting that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be late for, and if we breathe, we're going

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Speaker 2: to get to the meeting whatever time we get to

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Speaker 2: the meeting, no matter whether we're breathing shallow and fast

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Speaker 2: and panicky or breathing deep. So breathe deep and calm

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Speaker 2: that autonomic nervous system. That's really what the message here

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Speaker 2: is another way that you can be mindful. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to worry about the other doctor's desk study that

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Speaker 2: I was going to share. We'll save that for next

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Speaker 2: time we do a doctor's desk. The other way that

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Speaker 2: you can be mindful is that you can just pay

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Speaker 2: attention to what your senses notice. And I love doing

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Speaker 2: it as a countdown to calm. That's what I call it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's got an official name. I

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Speaker 2: can't find it, but that's what I call it. So

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Speaker 2: have a look around and identify five things that you

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Speaker 2: can see and name them. I can see the door,

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Speaker 2: I can see the lights, I can see the stove.

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Speaker 2: I can see the greenery outside. I can see you, missus,

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Speaker 2: happy families. And what are four things that I can

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Speaker 2: feel well? I can feel my feet on the tiles.

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Speaker 2: I can feel my hand on the seat that I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting on. I can feel my back up against the

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Speaker 2: bricks that I'm touching because we're in this tiny little

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Speaker 2: airbnb and it's a little bit cramped. And I can

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Speaker 2: also feel on my face. I shaved this morning and

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Speaker 2: I've just got a little bit of razor burn above

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Speaker 2: my top lip, and I can feel that as well.

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Speaker 3: And what are three things that I can hear well?

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Speaker 4: Even though I'm wearing headphones, I can still hear the

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Speaker 4: quiet chirp of the birds outside.

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Speaker 2: Right, And there's the I can hear you, of course,

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Speaker 2: and there's the gentle whir of traffic because we live

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Speaker 2: near a busy road. Now and then we can also

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Speaker 2: do two things that we can smell and one thing

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Speaker 2: we can taste. And just by going through that process,

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Speaker 2: as you've been listening to us share these mundane details

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Speaker 2: about what we can see and feel and hear and

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Speaker 2: smell and taste, it brings everything back to here and now.

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Speaker 2: It makes us mindful of the moment in a non

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Speaker 2: judgmental way. It helps everything to be calm and peaceful,

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Speaker 2: and the pressure and stress is gone.

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Speaker 3: So the mindfulness industry that's grown out of these ideas

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Speaker 3: is helpful. It's useful.

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Speaker 2: But I guess the one thing that I would highlight

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Speaker 2: again is that mindfulness can't do everything. And there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of people out there who are selling courses and

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Speaker 2: making promises about mindfulness that are just not fair and

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Speaker 2: that it's just not right. Mindfulness has exploded, But there

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Speaker 2: was this recent review by the I might actually see

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Speaker 2: if I can link to this in the show notes

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Speaker 2: as well. There was a recent review maybe three or

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Speaker 2: four years ago now by the US Agency for Healthcare

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Speaker 2: Research and Quality, and they found that mindfulness based therapies

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Speaker 2: provide only moderate help in treating anxiety, depression, pain, and

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Speaker 2: don't do a whole lot to reduce stress or improve

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Speaker 2: quality of life. And I think that's probably because, sorry,

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Speaker 2: and there is no evidence at all at this point

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Speaker 2: that mindfulness can help people with substance abuse, or with

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Speaker 2: eating habits, or with sleep problems, or with weight control.

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Speaker 2: So there's a whole lot of potential positive benefits, and

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Speaker 2: some people may find mindfulness benefits in those areas and others,

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Speaker 2: but overall, we need to recognize that mindfulness can't fix everything.

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Speaker 4: I think it's really important to understand that it's one

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Speaker 4: tool that we have in our.

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Speaker 2: Tool Yes, yes, And the other thing to remember is

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Speaker 2: you've got to actually do it. Like you can be

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Speaker 2: taught it, But when you're in the car and you're

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Speaker 2: freaking out because you're going to be like and everything's happening,

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to remember, Oh, and this is my

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Speaker 2: opportunity to be mindful. I need to just take some

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Speaker 2: deep breaths and get back into that zen sort of space,

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Speaker 2: but that's where we need to go. So Coylie, that's

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Speaker 2: our doctor's desk for today. I know we've goofed off

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Speaker 2: a little bit. We've had some fun and we didn't

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Speaker 2: get through all of the studies, but we can catch

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Speaker 2: up on the other studies in our next Doctor's Desk episode.

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Speaker 3: The take home message mindfulness. It feels good. It can help.

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Speaker 2: It won't help with everything, but there is pretty good

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Speaker 2: evidence that our emotions are contagious. They're catchy, and if

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Speaker 2: you can be holding it together nicely, the kids are

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Speaker 2: going to feel that and everyone's going to do better.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Next Monday Night,

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Speaker 2: we have the webinar that you can not miss.

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Speaker 3: It's called Carrots and Sticks.

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Speaker 2: It's all about how punished moments, rewards, praise, control, bribes,

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Speaker 2: time out and more undermine our ability to effectively discipline

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Speaker 2: our kids and what we can do instead of using

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Speaker 2: the behavioral Carrot and stick. I hope you joined me

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Speaker 2: for it. If you're a Happy Family's member, it's included

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Speaker 2: in your membership. If you're not a member, it's just

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Speaker 2: thirty bucks, and you can get all the details at

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Speaker 2: happy families dot com, dot a u