1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next. The Next is a monthly podcast 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: from the Female Athlete Project. Each episode, futurist and former 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: athlete Rihanna Brown joins Chloe and Bez to explore what's 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: changing in women's sport before it hits the headlines. We 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: shine a light on the pockets of the future already here. 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: The signals have changed that are quietly or not so quietly, 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: reshaping women's sport in the present. Ree welcome back in 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: person this week. I'm here for it all this month. 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: Irl Irl, The kids say, Irl, I. 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: Enjoy being Irl with you. 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 3: Me too. 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: I can feel the size of your brain in the room. 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 3: It's a presence. 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: It's definitely a presence in a tiny body with my 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: legs swinging off the bottom of this chair. 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: Tiny body, big brain. How have you been since we 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: last chatted? 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: Very flat out, lots of tabs open, lots of travel, 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: lots of interesting conversations. 20 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and you. 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: Bears, yeah, just existing. 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're busy. I can see your brain over there 23 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: as busy, not as big, just. 24 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 4: As busy, just busy, less tabs. 25 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Less tabs. Ray, What have you been noticing lately? 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: Something I thought I would never really notice or pay 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: attention to. 28 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 3: I think we're I think we're all a bit not 29 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: out of like you know, fish out of water here, 30 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 3: but yeah we are. Let's be real. 31 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: I definitely am. But I mean that's very telling of 32 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: the topic, right, It's getting very hard to ignore. So 33 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 2: I've been noticing a lot around fashion, fashion, fashion, beauty, 34 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: and women's sport. It's really hard to not notice that. 35 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: So this is about the convergence between the three, not 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: just in ways where it's new sponsorship. This is really 37 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: about a deeper cultural shift that's starting to change both 38 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: industries both ways, which I think is really interesting. So 39 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: fashion and beauty moving from a thing on the side 40 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: to being part and entangled in the system of women's sport, 41 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: which of course raises a whole bunch of questions around 42 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: whether these shifts are good, what are the consequences, upside downsides, 43 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: Is this a great thing? Is this a liberating thing? 44 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: Or is it just a smarter way to sell. So 45 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: lots happening. I went down a lot of rabbit holes 46 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: that my algorithm had never been down before. 47 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm quite impressed by you. People should see the documents 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: that she pulls together. There is some serious detail in here. 49 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: Let's kick off this conversation and talk about what you 50 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: touch on there. The entanglement of fashion, beauty and apparel 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: growing together. How does that work in parallel? 52 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: So three or four big industries really going through the roof. 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: We know the women's sport is growing. Everybody cites that 54 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: Deloitte paper. I'm sure there's other research, but everybody knows 55 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: beauty is massive. This is one hundreds of billions of 56 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: dollars industry, and they're hungry for new still, and they're 57 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: hungry for new markets. I would say young people, tweens, kids, 58 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 2: and women's sport. Apparel is a whole new thing. My 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: partner has an apparel business, my nephew had a fleeting 60 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: apparel business. It's like a whole amazing thing that's going 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: on as an industry. Sports merch shifting had become a 62 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: street a street wear and a fashion item. So these 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: big industries that have been growing in parallel, but now 64 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: they're starting to entangle and become part of the bigger ecosystem. 65 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: There's a lot of brands that come to mind when 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: we talk about this, right, Like I remember we post 67 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: about these things all the time, like Charlotte Tilbury with 68 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: their fine Academy being a partner there. All the WNBA 69 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: stuff was this Sophora, the bags dropping from the sky, 70 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: probably not the sky because they're indoor stadiums, but that 71 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: was from the roof thing from the That's the word 72 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: I was looking for, thank you, like makeup bags dropping 73 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: from the roof to people sitting watching WNBA games. The 74 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: fact that gloss he has the official beauty partner of 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: the w NBA and USA Basketball. They're not just like 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: these really short term deals as a one off. 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the shift for me is that it 78 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: hasn't just been these brands just dabbling in and around 79 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: the edge. They are going all in. I think when 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: I was watching the super Bowl there was four beauty 81 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 2: brands in the super Bowl. I no, that's not women's sport, 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: but for me, that's its own telling indicator to say 83 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: beauty fashion has arrived in sport. 84 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: You could almost say that Super Bowl is the mecha 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: of sport advertising. 86 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: It's oh yeah, totally soon halftime as. 87 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 3: The halftime show. Well, the ads space is so expensive. 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: So if someone's willing to invest in the ad space 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 3: for beauty products and tells you what they're trying to sell, and. 90 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to give Taylor Swift too much credit. 91 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: I think she's an exceptional artist, by the way, but 92 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: I'll get into I'll get no, I'm not. I'm definitely not, 93 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: but I'll get in trouble from Riley if I that. 94 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: Do you even listen to the podcast? Riley? 95 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 4: She definitely doesn't say with my pana, this is a. 96 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: Test, this is the test. I think probably it's important 97 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: to recognize that Taylor Swift obviously has brought a lot 98 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: of new fans to the NFL and their whole story 99 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: and all those kind of things, but there are a 100 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: huge amount of women that have been long been supporters 101 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: of the NFL. So it's just really interesting when these 102 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: brands recognize moments like Taylor Swift. But they could have 103 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: been advertising and commercializing their products to these women's fans 104 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: of the NFL prior. Do you know what I'm trying 105 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: to say? That's a weird way to say. Did you 106 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: get what I'm saying? 107 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: I do? I mean women's women watch sport and they're 108 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: sports fans. It's a surprise to some industries borting industries 109 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: and sectors, but when there are big moves like that 110 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,559 Speaker 2: signal around the Super Bowl. That's when my brain says 111 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: the change has changed. And there's a lot of reasons 112 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: why they would want to invest in women's sport. We 113 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: know around athletes driving social engagement, female athletes driving more 114 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: social engagement, women's sports sponsorships growing at. 115 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: A faster rate, right. 116 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: Yes, And there was some research I was reading around trust. 117 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 3: Trust is a big thing. It's very I mean, how 118 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: do you measure trust? I guess for a start, but 119 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: people that were surveyed said that they trust a female 120 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: athlete more than a male athlete just because of their 121 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: holistic approach to sport. I think is probably the crux 122 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 3: of it. It's just that the female athlete seems more 123 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: wholesome on the outside. And so if a female athletes 124 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 3: says that you should you know, this is what I wear, 125 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: you should wear it too, people are into it. 126 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 127 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: I mean intuitively, maybe I'm biased, but if Meg Glanning 128 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: got behind a product, I'm probably going to trust it exactly. 129 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's a big statement, isn't it. 130 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? Definitely. So, I mean that's part of all of 131 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: these things are converging, of all of these industries going kaboom, 132 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: recognizing that women sport and women's sports fans are a target, 133 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: and now watching big shifts and big players from beauty 134 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: and fashion move into the space. 135 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: You guys both said off the top that this is 136 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: not uncharted waters, but this is not maybe our standard 137 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: topic of conversation. I somewhat disagree because this next topic 138 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: I've seen both of you. You're often in sports merch, right, 139 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: can we talk about kit and merch? So you guys 140 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: absolutely can talk to these Yes, maybe not the beauty part. 141 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: You're not the Sephora fan consumer. 142 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 3: What Sephora. 143 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 4: The thing that drops from the sky. 144 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that the kit is a huge 145 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: part of this, and we've seen this real shift from 146 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: just being able to buy the exact kit that the 147 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: athlete might wear on game day to a whole plethora 148 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: of whatever you want to buy to be able to, 149 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: I guess, represent yourself as an indie you're supporting a 150 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: team or club. 151 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's probably two reasons if I think about 152 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: the selection of things that I wear. One is because 153 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: it's not just a suvidive as a sports fan anymore. 154 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: I think it's becoming an advocacy piece to say that 155 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: I wear this represent this, but it's also an emerging 156 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: business model and a new funding mechanism because women's sport 157 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: are starting to see it as a fashion opportunity. And 158 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: I mean I think of this example of like, this 159 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: isn't necessarily new, but maybe it is for women's sport. 160 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: I think of Jay Z's I just mangle this so bad. 161 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: But you know the lyrics in his song where he's 162 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 2: like he made the Yankee hat more famous than the 163 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: Yankees can. 164 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't, but that lyric it's iconic. Yeah, well 165 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: it's it's the song's iconic. 166 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 4: Really, it's that. 167 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: So it's an advocacy piece, it's a piece of fashion, 168 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: and it's a new funding mechanism for those very reasons. 169 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: So we look at the merch record sales WNBA record sales. 170 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: I feel like I referenced WNBA a lot because I 171 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: watch and read a lot around the WNBA. But twenty 172 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: twenty three, Matilda's Kit outsold the soccer Owos by thirteen times. 173 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: Love that me too. 174 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: England the Lioness's win in twenty twenty, so their shirt 175 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 2: sails rose seven hundred and fifty percent compared to twenty nineteen. 176 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 3: There was a massive drama at the beginning of the 177 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 3: Rugby World Cup because the Red Roses had signed with 178 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: a new English the RFU English Rugby Union had signed 179 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: with a new provider, and they had not made enough jerseys. 180 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: They were completely underestimated the sales. I'm not going to 181 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: throw that. I don't know. I can't remember that providers. 182 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: It was one of the newer ones. But yeah, they 183 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 3: were rushing to find more jerseys because it got to 184 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: start the World Cup and everything was sold out. 185 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: Which seems like quite a common story. I think in 186 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: women's bought like the same thing with the goalkeepers jersey 187 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: for the Matilda's exactly. 188 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 2: So it's it's I mean, the demand is there and 189 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: that's a really good indicator of that when when having 190 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: enough stock. But it's also allowing sports women's sports to 191 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 2: generate new funding mechanisms. Uniforms particularly, and now merch. It's 192 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: not just uniforms, it's tended. 193 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: To the whole. 194 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: Merch used to sit as like an administrative decision in 195 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: the back end. Now it's like wow, as these other 196 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: things converge around fashion and streetwear and sport and culture, 197 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: it's becoming a serious revenue raising mechanism. 198 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 3: Interestingly, what you've said there is exactly what I think, 199 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: you know is my kind of approach to it. Merch 200 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 3: used to be support aware and jersey and like you said, 201 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: I believe in this and this athlete and this team, 202 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: and that's why I'm wearing this too. Now genuinely a 203 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 3: fashion item that I'm going to wear out on Saturday night. 204 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: And that's where that shift has gone, you know, like 205 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 3: it's not just a jersey, It's now something that is 206 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 3: part of culture and fashion. Pasian as we may say it's. 207 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: Fashion, I mean we know Again, I always look at 208 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: the signals of where the changes are that Batan designers 209 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: are now entering the space. Some leagues are bringing them 210 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: in intentionally, but this idea of fashion forward as a 211 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: way to expand commercial reach. So Angel City did a 212 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: whole bunch of collabs around a luxury streetwear collaboration, but 213 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: I think they also did stuff with Hello Kitty, and 214 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: the whole premise was this isn't just a uniform mis 215 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: sell there's an entire fashion label and brand here with 216 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: really huge responses. 217 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't think we can talk about any of this 218 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: without probably addressing the elephant in the room just around 219 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: those really traditional beauty standards and the objectification of women athletes. 220 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: So I think it's probably worth pointing out while we 221 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: talk about this, like with the Female Athlete Project, in 222 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: a way, I feel like we've probably leaned away from 223 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: the fashion and beauty conversations. There's definitely parts of it 224 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: that we've covered, for sure, but as we've all said, 225 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: you can't ignore this growth anymore in that space. But 226 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: I think we've I don't want to say avoided it, 227 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: but we've leaned away from it because I think we've 228 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: tried so hard to make it about the athletes and 229 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: about their achievements and about their sports and move away 230 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: from this really traditional objectification of women athletes. How does 231 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: this fit into this entire discussion about our athletes now 232 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: being given more power to redefine what beauty standards are. 233 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: And to beauty standards contradict to our approach of women's 234 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 3: sport is for everyone. 235 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: This is the fine line, I think, particularly when it's 236 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: not just a choice, if it's coming from the fact 237 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: that it's now a potential revenue stream, that makes the 238 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: conversation even harder. I mean, I also think just to 239 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: jump back in there, when I consider what's happened with 240 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: the AFLW kit, so that untangling. You were talking about 241 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: that in a rese. 242 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: We chatted about that on the rat recently. So for 243 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: the first ten seasons of the AFLW they had a 244 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: long term partnership with cotton On and that has expired. 245 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: So from twenty twenty six, each of the eighteen clubs 246 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: will be able to sign their own apparel deals so 247 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: they can align. Most likely they'll align with their men's program, 248 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: you would think from a club perspective, but we think 249 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: it'll probably shift in a positive way to giving fans 250 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: more access to a more diverse range of merchandise and things. 251 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: And ideally we're going to also see more athlete input 252 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: into the shape and size and fitting of their uniforms. 253 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's to watch this space for me, because again, 254 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: moving from it being an administrative thing that the club 255 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: or the governing body just says or will sort the 256 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: uniforms out, saying this is a serious revenue. I tie 257 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: that back in because that's another pressure and driver, not 258 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: just because some athletes and the culture between sport and 259 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: fashion and beauty is emerging. It's saying he's a whole 260 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: funding mechanism. But what I think is shifting is again 261 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: unevenly distributed. But this idea I think where women's sport 262 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: is starting to drag beauty standards towards it. That's one 263 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: positive part that I think is going on. So beauty 264 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: fashion brands are having to adjust to that. So women athletes, 265 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: not universally but in some pockets no longer trying to 266 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: squeeze themselves into old beauty standards. So athletes then becoming 267 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: beauty authorities, not exceptions. You know, it's like the shift 268 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: in the power dynamic of saying, sure, I'll embrace this 269 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: part of my self, but on my terms. And there's 270 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: a few, yeah, really interesting examples of that. 271 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 3: The obvious one is who's doing the queen obviously, Alonam. 272 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: You know she she represents everything to me that a 273 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: strong rugby player should be, and she does it in 274 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 3: in my mind, a beautiful way. And I think that 275 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 3: that's something that you know, I'm forever thankful for her 276 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 3: to her, for you've got an amazing crete. You don't 277 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: have to sacrifice your femininity to play any sport, So 278 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: she hasn't. She She's still who she is. She's not 279 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: she's you know very unforgivingly who she is, and she's 280 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 3: just defining what strong and beautiful can look like for 281 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: her and I think that's the for me, that's the 282 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: important thing. It's it still needs to make. You still 283 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: need to be comfortable in it yourself. Whatever your beauty 284 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: standard is, that has to be right for you. 285 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: What you were touching on, Rae and on this Alona 286 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: mar topic, the Barbie goals that were made of the 287 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: players at the Alona was one of them, mostly and 288 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: I am discussing this based on the comments action on 289 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: teeth at that I scroll through to see if I 290 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: need to block anyone, but most mostly positively receive the 291 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: Barbie dolls. But people still saying something like the shoulders 292 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: are still not overly broad and Alona's legs, yes, they 293 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: look strong, stronger than what a traditional Barbie would look like, 294 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: but there's still room for improvement in something like a 295 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: Barbie doll that still looks pretty skinny for someone like 296 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: a loner. 297 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's never going to be perfect when you're when 298 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: when you're creating a Barbie, because we all know what 299 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: the connotations for Barbie is. 300 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: That's what I mean, though, Like when is a Barbie 301 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: ever going to be like a like, where's the plus 302 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: sized Barbie? Not saying alone Ama is a plus sized woman, 303 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: but where is a plus size do you know what 304 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: I mean? 305 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: I hear what he's saying, and so it's, you know, 306 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: the Barbie example is always going to be fraught. There's 307 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 3: there's always going to be issues there. But I think, 308 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: you know, going back to that, that piece in regard 309 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 3: to how she represents beauty, I think is really important 310 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 3: because it's on her own terms, in her own way. 311 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think part of that is the shift 312 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: I mean a couple of things. For me, she wasn't 313 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: necessarily used to soften the look of rugby. That was 314 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 2: my experience playing sport when you'd see people and they'd 315 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: be used to soften the look of a particular sport. 316 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: But Serena Williams, I think Shakari Richardson and the nails 317 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: and lashes as hair and hair, I think have been 318 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: pushing that conversation for a long time. And I think 319 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 2: the inside is it's about them declaring in an authority, 320 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: not necessarily asking permission. But that came with a lot 321 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: of criticism, huge blowback lash. 322 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 4: Yeah. 323 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: The other example I wanted to touch on was Mary Fowler. 324 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed following her and I guess how she's 325 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 1: grown publicly post World Cup. She's quite quirky. I think, 326 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: as you and I have probably talked about this, she's 327 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: quite quirky and a little bit different with the content 328 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: she puts out, which I really respect, you know, like, 329 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: I think she does things quite differently. But so she 330 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: made her Paris Fashion Week runway debut with Laurel I. 331 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 3: Think in Paris I definitely say fashion Oh sorry. 332 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: Yeah that I definitely say like that, I reckon you know, 333 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: like and it was it was a huge moment. I 334 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: saw it across a whole range of different platforms and 335 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: channels and it just those moments just seem to carry 336 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: a lot of power when it's an athlete of her profile. 337 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the brands are chasing them as well. 338 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: So I was. 339 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: Looking online and saw the cover of Vogue India and 340 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: it was the women's cricketers. 341 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: Oh I love that. 342 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was a handful of them and a 343 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: broad brush of from the team and for me, again, 344 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: just those cultural indicators of the beauty brands, if you like, 345 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: coming to the athlete and the athletes not necessarily making 346 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: radical changes in response to that. 347 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: I think it's silly of us if we don't actually 348 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: mention Tea and a brand like together. There's a number 349 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: of different brands where it might be athletes coming together 350 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: to create platforms that are about advocacy. But merchandise is 351 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: a huge part of that. Like the Everyone Watches Women's Sports, 352 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: Tea has done what stupid amounts seven million US and 353 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: revenue which the company is then reinvested for us. We've 354 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: done a number of different merchandise launchers that help us 355 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: to continue to run this business, to continue to put content. 356 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: Our merchandise is a huge part of what we do. 357 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: I'd say mostly from an advocacy point of view. I 358 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of our messaging on our T 359 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: shirts is for people to wear to make a statement. 360 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: We like to make a broad range of merchan It's 361 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: about people being able to make a statement and then 362 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: people more subtly being able to represent it. But I 363 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: think it's coming back to that advocacy piece, but also 364 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: the commercialization piece for us to work out different revenue 365 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: streams to continue doing what we're doing for women's sport. 366 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think it's becoming a really significant 367 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: platform for much more than just being fashion itself. The 368 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: advocacy piece is really powerful. I mean, we kind of 369 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: have started to wear our values. I think of the 370 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: be kind tease. I have a running this is not 371 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: apparel plug because there's only three sizes extra extra small available, 372 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 2: But I have a running suite of apparel that I 373 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: wear that says that the Bloodites were right. 374 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 4: And that's a whole part. 375 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: Of our university lecturers actually who had one of those 376 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: as well? 377 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: Oh how boring. 378 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: Sorry, I mean I take it back. They are cool 379 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: for wearing that. 380 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: They might have some IP claims on that, but the 381 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: whole premise of you wearing your advocacy on as merch. 382 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 2: I think what was really interesting too is that watching, 383 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: you know, athletes become beauty authorities and this beauty and 384 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: fashion moving and chasing athletes. Is the range of micro 385 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 2: industries that this and jobs that sit around the edges 386 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: of sport that it's created, so like sports stylists is 387 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: now a career and all of these content producers and 388 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 2: makeup artists that are now inside the sports industry. 389 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting. I had the chance to chat 390 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: to one of the WNBA stylists who works with a 391 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of the big teams and athletes, and this real 392 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: shift where we're seeing these pregame fits and some athletes 393 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: are just like another level with what they're wearing, but 394 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people behind the scenes in the 395 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: beauty space getting them ready with the apparel that they're wearing. 396 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: They might be pulling together different outfits for them to 397 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: wear for these pregame fits. I think it's really cool 398 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: to see this industry, as you said, that's building in 399 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: conjunction with the growth of women's sport. 400 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: I guess my question is are the athletes getting a 401 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 3: return from the investment by these beauty companies. Are they 402 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: actually investing in sport and the female athlete or are 403 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 3: they potentially just investing in an individual which isn't necessarily 404 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 3: a terrible thing. Do we think that sport? Is it 405 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: a symbolic kind of relationship here? 406 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: What kind of leaks back to our last episode around 407 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: big sport? And will the money goes and even if 408 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 2: it does go to some athletes, does it go to 409 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: just a few? 410 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: That was my exact thoughts to that question. Is I 411 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: think the higher profile players that are earning bigger money 412 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: that have bigger commercial deals on the side are the 413 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: ones who get access to your pritas and whatever they're 414 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: wearing pre game. They've already got the profile and it 415 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: continues to grow, so I think in a sense it's 416 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: a really positive thing for them. But I do have 417 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: real issues a lot of the time in these sporting 418 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: teams where it is often the top two or three 419 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: athletes whose profiles continue to grow and the rest of 420 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: the athletes just get a little bit left behind. I 421 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: think a lot of the time. 422 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: That's not separate though, from what's happening in society, just 423 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: from a wealth in and quality perspective and a growing 424 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: number of people at the top, so sport doesn't sit 425 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 2: outside of that. 426 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: So I think it's a really fair. 427 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 2: Question, and that's why we're always asking these questions and 428 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: provocations around well, what do we choose to do now? 429 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 2: If that is the case. I think what's interesting there though, 430 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: too is watching athletes and fans starting to have more 431 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: of a say around this stuff, so being able to 432 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: co design products. I mean, we know that fans have 433 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: started and athletes, but fans in particular are forcing brands 434 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: to listen to them that perfect example of the Mackenzie, 435 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: Arnold and Mary's the goalkeeper kit. So it wasn't available, 436 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: is that right? 437 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't make them. They just didn't bother even 438 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: producing the goalkeeper shirts for the work. 439 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: Up, and then when they did, they sold out so quickly, 440 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: was a huge demand that. 441 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 3: Made a ridiculously small run and all and then were shocked. 442 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 4: Then it became a bit of a cult icon. 443 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 2: One of those jerseys I think was like that was 444 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: its own form of protest in buying one of those jerseys. 445 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: But I think that the adjacent pushback too, is around again. Athletes, 446 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: fans and designers pushing back around that idea of shrinket 447 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: and pink it. 448 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 3: Which just infuriates me, just makes me feel ill. True, 449 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 3: are we discussing this the other day with Halo some 450 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 3: refresh in my mind was an amazing Halo platform that 451 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 3: lasted six days. 452 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And that's probably a great example to be 453 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: honest with fans forcing brands to listen. Halo should have 454 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: had input from more women before they went live with 455 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: this shrinkt and pinket version of TikTok and trying to 456 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: prettify that's definitely not a word o'men sport, and they 457 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: didn't and people there was significant backlash and the platform 458 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: then got removed a few days later. I know it's 459 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: not the uniform fashion conversation, but I think as a whole, 460 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: there's a real parallel there. 461 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: I didn't even it was so quick, I didn't even 462 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: get a chance to see the platform, which devastated about. 463 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 4: But yeah, I think this shift too. 464 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: Of it's the same sentiment though, of advocacy and pushback 465 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 2: and wanting more say and those organizations needing to listen, 466 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: but also watching athletes move from what I would call 467 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 2: move from the mannequin to the makers and the designers. 468 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 2: Cocoa GoF I follow a lot of her because I 469 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 2: think she's doing so many different interesting things. But she 470 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: co designs what she plays in, so she's not just 471 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: handed a kit, which she used to just be handed 472 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: at kit. She co creates with new balance and a 473 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 2: whole bunch of I think there was like luxury designers, 474 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: so her match kit is at times treated like a 475 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 2: fashion drop. 476 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: And it is too. It seeking a new balance and mad. Yeah, cool, 477 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: just putting that out there. 478 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: She's just cool, like even Sabrini, n Escue with her 479 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: shoes as well. There was a crazy I don't know 480 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: what the number was of the number of NBA players 481 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: wearing her Supporters Boy Sports wearing. 482 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: The second second most popular shoe in the NBA. I 483 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 2: knew you'd have some of my nieces and nephew's friends 484 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: that play don't know Sabrina Escue, but they know her shoes. 485 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: That's that's an interesting question. 486 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 4: Is it's cool. 487 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: I kind of think it's cool. I can't decide how 488 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: I feel, but I think. 489 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 4: I like it. 490 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: But this is the shift of them being a maker, 491 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 2: a designer, and an icon. Shyla hill I Read had 492 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: launched her signature shoe that was the first for female 493 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 2: for women's basketball in this country. 494 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: In the podcast just the other day, go check it 495 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: out Shameless Pug for the. 496 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 4: She's got a really. 497 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: Great story athletes and fans being fashion icons. Brianna Stewart 498 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 2: has her own I love Stu York Fashion label. 499 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 4: Love that so good. It's great. 500 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: I have to pay tribute to I think one of 501 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: the OG's in this country around fashion and sport with 502 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: Lizzie Cambage. 503 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: Do we have to we do her? 504 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 3: She's yes, the fashion bit She's problematic, but. 505 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 2: Her fashion style is phenomenal. Whatever she's wearing two years later, 506 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: it's cool. She was way ahead of the game in 507 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: anyone in this country before that's the case, so total 508 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: fashion icon. I think the other interesting thing is watching two. 509 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: What's happening around the sustainability conversation? Fast fashion is a 510 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: big issue. 511 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we can. We talk about Unwanted FC. So 512 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: I first came across Unwanted FC. They reached out about 513 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: the collab that they did with Ellie Carpenter. So they 514 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: reworked the Dutch national team kits, which is Ellie Carpenter's 515 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: who Ellie Carpenter's wife now wife I'm married, plays for 516 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: and they like stitch together this incredible jersey in a 517 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: way like it was the jersey remade in a really 518 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: cool way for Ellie to wear to go and watch 519 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: her wife's games, which I thought was really really cool. 520 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 3: It was, It was incredible and it is again it's 521 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: that piece and it's probably a tenuous link, but it 522 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: comes back to that trust piece, and I think female 523 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: athletes want to be sharing stories and brands that they 524 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: believe in, and that's where the trust generates from. 525 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: And holding space for then a brand that is focused 526 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 2: on upcycling, you know the ideas of circular design, so 527 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: it not necessarily being about new stuff all of the time. 528 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: A friend said to me after listening to the podcast, 529 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 2: I feel like women's sport has to hold such a 530 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: big space for social economic like why does women's sport 531 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: have to be the ones doing the right things all 532 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: the time? Which I think is a really interesting question 533 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: in the context of that collab. For me is then 534 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: saying there's some really cool stuff for happening in the 535 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: circular space, but women's athlete, athletes and fans leading these 536 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 2: kind of social conversations. 537 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: And the other one is athletes launching their own beauty 538 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: and skincare brands as well. There's a number of them. 539 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: I mate Alona again, Nami Osaka, She's active. 540 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 3: Active in individual I think that for me, when I 541 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: think of Naomasaka, I think of definitely doing her own thing, 542 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: and I love that from her. She's very much not 543 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 3: a cookie cutter athlete in a lot of different ways, 544 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: and that carries through into what she's doing in this space. 545 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: I like that it's kind of changing the sector and 546 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: the product in a way. So when it comes from 547 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: athletes designing and being involved in shaping beauty products. It 548 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 2: focuses more on things like performance beauty, which is a 549 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: whole new category that's emerging. I was doing some side 550 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: research totally unnecessary, but TikTok trends around long lasting beauty 551 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: the searchers went up six percent and things like waterproof 552 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: lip waterproof lip preparation went up twenty four percent in 553 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: the first half of twenty twenty four. So then athletes 554 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: being involved starting to shape these subcategories and different ways 555 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 2: of using beauty products. 556 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: Are we saying the wardproof lip prep is because of 557 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: people wanting to exercise sweat cool? 558 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: Can you wear these beauty products while you're actually essentially 559 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 2: playing sport or exercising or being That's it. 560 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: That's a cool start. I like that. I like that 561 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: a lot. 562 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: So I think this shift from athletes owning their own 563 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: beauty in skincare brands is really interesting. So another economic 564 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: engine for athletes, but also watching how beauty and fashion 565 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: is emerging as a new form of work for athletes. 566 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: So everybody, I'm sure everyone will know. It's hard to 567 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: avoid this now that tunnel fits are becoming a new 568 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: fashion destination. So in the WNBA, the NWSL. What you 569 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: wear down the tunnel is becoming an event in and 570 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: of itself, to the point where that part of the game, 571 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: the pregame wasn't in part of the game, is now 572 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: being analyzed in fashion circles, in fashion media. So it's 573 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: not highlight reels of the sport, it's the tunnel fit conversation. 574 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: So this is about yeah, a total It's coming from 575 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: the fashion and the beauty and they guess saying, this 576 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 2: is a section of sport that we're interested in, and 577 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: it gets debated openly and widely in the fashion space. 578 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 3: Just being monetized. Yeah, the actual arrival is being monetized. 579 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: Kansas City Currents Fit Walk is actually sponsored by I'm 580 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 3: going to say this wrong because I know nothing about 581 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 3: fashion Newly. 582 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, a rental a clothing rental service. 583 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 3: Amazing. 584 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is amazing. 585 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: All I think is not amazing. I just want to 586 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: turn up to sport and not worry about what I'm 587 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: wearing on what people are saying about what I'm wearing. 588 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: That stresses me out. And there's athletes who absolutely lean 589 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: in and nail it, But I just think about the 590 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: athletes who don't want to borrow it, and all they 591 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: want to do is rock up and perform and play 592 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: their sport and not be judged for their outfit that 593 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: they're wearing to the game. 594 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: So you might miss out on a new form of 595 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: monetization where athletes are monetizing their posts and pre beauty routines. 596 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: Get Ready with Me there was an acronym. I had to. 597 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 4: Google what that was. 598 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: Clearly, I'm not get Ready with me person, but that's 599 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: starting to show up inside athlete sponsorship contracts and deliverables. 600 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: If someone is doing the prep saying here's your outfit. 601 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: This would look good on you. As long as it's 602 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: not something really weird and ugly, I will take that. 603 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: I think it's taking the mental load from a lot 604 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: of these athletes. I just don't think that's a mental 605 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: load that you want to be having when you're performing. 606 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of athletes like 607 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: an Angel who's rocking up and she loves I can't comment. 608 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say this because I can't comment on her behalf. 609 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: But you know athletes who might love the process of 610 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: getting ready and being in front of the camera and 611 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: doing all those things pregame, but I just think it's 612 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: a big mental load, is what I find for the 613 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: female athletes who ideally should just be earning more in 614 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: their playing contracts and not having to do it. 615 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 3: So therein lies the point, you know. It's again is 616 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: beauty and fashion another example of the way that a 617 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 3: female athlete has to diversify their offering because what they 618 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 3: perform or produce on a picture on a court isn't enough. 619 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 3: Whereas that's always been enough for a male athlete, it's 620 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: not enough for female athletes, so they have to find 621 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 3: other areas that they can monetize their self. 622 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: I think, yes, I agree. 623 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 2: It's a tricky line, isn't it, Because we're saying, okay, 624 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: there's some patterns here that show a shift in dynamics 625 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: beauty and fashion coming to women athletes, them starting to 626 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: reshape the standards to a degree, but it's still it's 627 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: still elevates certain people, and that's problematic. I think we're 628 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: I think we're walking some tricky lines. So women athletes 629 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:17,240 Speaker 2: having to simultaneously reject objectification and build beauty brands, also 630 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: demanding a performance focus while also centralizing fashion like, that's 631 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: a lot to hold. It's a lot of complexity to 632 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 2: hold it is. 633 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 3: And I think you know, we've spoke about this briefly 634 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 3: before recording, but I think when we look at the 635 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 3: Alone mar example, who's probably most friend of mine. For 636 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 3: people at the moment, women's sport I think is a 637 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 3: safe space for everyone, no matter your body shape and 638 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 3: size and what you look like. Do beauty brands objectify 639 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: that to a certain extent where people that don't necessarily 640 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 3: feel comfortable in that space no longer feel welcomed in 641 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 3: women's sport? And I think that's the big question for me. 642 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, is it about opening more commercial opportunities, but what 643 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: are the implications for players? What happens to the players 644 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 2: who don't want to play that aesthetic kind of beauty game. 645 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 2: It's also expensive, yes, so there's a class element to 646 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: that and who that privileges, Who actually gets access to 647 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: those economic opportunities and who doesn't. You know, if you're 648 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 2: not that interested in that space like you're mentioning, does 649 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 2: that mean you lose chances of economic opportunity? Probably given 650 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: the investment in the space and how big it is 651 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 2: and the dollars that are going into it. I think 652 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: one of the core tensions though, is back to this 653 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 2: question of are we watching women athletes and fans claim 654 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 2: more power here in an industry that has ignored and 655 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: objectified them for decades, or do we think this is 656 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: just a slicker form of commercial capture commercialization? Is this 657 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 2: just a brilliant tactic from big brands. 658 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: Discuss I'm going to lean more towards the claiming of 659 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: power because I think there's a huge amount of examples 660 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 1: that we've discussed here. But granted, we've also talked about 661 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: the really high profile athletes that probably have the leverage 662 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: and the money to be able to do it. So 663 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: I do think female athletes are rewriting this narrative and 664 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: challenging these really outdated beauty standards and beauty norms, and 665 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: I would like to think yes, these like these fashion 666 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: and beauty brands absolutely are thinking about the bottom line. 667 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: But I also I love the fact that they are 668 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: investing in women's sport, you know, and they're signing big 669 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: deals in the women's sports space, which to me is 670 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: a positive thing. And I think as long as it's 671 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: done in the right way, We're not talking about gambling 672 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: and mining and things. We're talking about things that can 673 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 1: bring someone confidence in their body and the way they 674 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: look when they're leaving the house and going out to 675 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: a game and doing all those things. 676 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I agree, And I think you said 677 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 3: the word can. I think as long as it's really 678 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 3: strongly communicated to the youth, and let's be honest, that's 679 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 3: probably the part of the women's sport fan that we 680 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 3: should be most concerned about is the young girls that 681 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 3: are looking at these idols of theirs and seeing what 682 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 3: they're doing and following in their footsteps. We need to 683 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 3: make sure that they still have a choice and they 684 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 3: still understand that they if they don't feel comfortable in 685 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 3: that beauty and fashion space to that extent, then that's fine. 686 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 3: Like it's as long as there's a choice, I think. Yeah, again, 687 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 3: more dollars in women's sport. So how about it. I'm 688 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 3: here for it. 689 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 2: I've got The annoying side thought is just always the 690 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: question the bad dinner. I guess no one really asked for, 691 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: but this sense that the question around who's the labor 692 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 2: that underwrites a lot of these things around fashion. So 693 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 2: for me, it's usually very feminized supply chains and we 694 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 2: know that they experience terrible working conditions so there is 695 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 2: some exciting stuff that's emerging around not only just the 696 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 2: past fashion thing, but around ethical supply chains that we're 697 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 2: starting to see shaped. But how we're conscious of that 698 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: when we make these decisions as women's sport entities and athletes, 699 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 2: even if you're being sponsored by some of these organizations. 700 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 2: One last question for you both. Do you think we 701 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 2: could see a future where women's sports events and games 702 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 2: are designed for ideal shoppers, not really athletes or the 703 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 2: sport itself. 704 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: Yes, I do. I think that, and we say that 705 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: we keep using these WNBA examples, But I just think 706 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: about the parachutes coming from the sky and there was 707 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: who was the team who did like the really cool 708 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: food and drinks package which was awesome for getting people 709 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: to the game. Do you remember that one? It was 710 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: like a big there was a big stir around the 711 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: food and drinks packages they were doing to get people 712 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: caught sight of these WNBA games please Google. I don't know. 713 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: I just think there's a real shift to the consumer 714 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: and what the consumer wants, and so I think if 715 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: we continue going down that path, I think it makes 716 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: sense for a business to be doing so. 717 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 2: And it might bring other people to the sport. So 718 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 2: people arriving to sport from fashion from beauty. 719 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: What if they're arriving to beauty because of sport and 720 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: they're a young person adult. I don't care how you 721 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: arrived to beauty, but a young person. There's this huge 722 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: discussion about how young these kids are that are going 723 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: in and asking, like they see YouTube tutorials that are 724 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: going in They're asking for products from the age of 725 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: like eight years old in Sephora and in Mecca. I mean, 726 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: maybe sport can't be that dangerous if these kids have 727 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: such easy access to things like YouTube tutorials anyway, but 728 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: could that be the first place that they are exposed 729 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: to beauty? 730 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're and I don't I yeah, they could be. 731 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 3: And that for me is like I said, the concerning part. 732 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 3: I just really think that you're you're Asia Wilson's and 733 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 3: you're more beauty fashion forward. Athletes are wonderful, but I 734 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 3: still think that we need to make sure that the 735 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 3: light is shone on the anti the anti it's the 736 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 3: wrong word, but you know, the athlete that isn't necessarily 737 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: I mean, we look at even someone like Caitlin Clark. 738 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 3: You know, she's huge, huge name definitely going down the 739 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 3: fashion a little bit. 740 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: Doesn't look overly comfortable for her. 741 00:40:59,040 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 4: She's her. 742 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 2: I just yeah, I feel her physio would be nervous. 743 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah, totally. 744 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 3: You know, for us we can see that. For her, 745 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 3: it's an add on, but it's not who she is. 746 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 3: And I think that's really important that that children can understand. 747 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: I like that kid's distinction. 748 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 3: Kids can understand that's not who they are, it's it's 749 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 3: a choice for them. 750 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: There's a quick story I just wanted to wrap with. Actually, 751 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: I was at a school event the other day and 752 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 1: there was a young girl, she was in year seven. 753 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: She came up. I often asked like, what's bought? Do 754 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: you play? What do you do? And she was a 755 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: shot putter, and she like was awesome mat at She 756 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: recently went to regionals and did really well. And I 757 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: was like, do you want to do it as a career, Like, 758 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: would you want to try go to the Olympics. She 759 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: was like, I'm not really sure. I was like, there's 760 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: actually a really cool Olympic shotputter from the US. Raven 761 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,479 Speaker 1: Saunders is their name, and Raven like does the cool 762 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: like mask and glasses and like hair and makeup and 763 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, and I started talking about that, 764 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: and this girl's face just like glazed over, and I 765 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: was like, she might have absolutely no desire to engage 766 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: with someone who does their hair and makeup to do shop, 767 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: but she almost looked a little bit like I don't 768 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: want to be doing that. And it kind of was 769 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: a moment for me of like why did I tell her? 770 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: Like I think all credits to ravens On is Raven's epic, 771 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: But I kind of had this moment of like, sport 772 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 1: will always just be sport for some people to. 773 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 3: Drop the mic exactly right, I'll always be sport. 774 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 2: But how do we like everything that we've spoken about 775 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 2: in this series? The whole point is we're inside the 776 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 2: change the future hasn't happened. How do we be much 777 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 2: more intentional in all of these everyday decisions that we 778 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: make as fans, as athletes, as administrators. What are the 779 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: guardrails that we put in place? You know, what do 780 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,959 Speaker 2: we want to defend taking forward? What's really important for us? 781 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: And then when you understand what's changing around you and 782 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: how you see the implications play out already, I think 783 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 2: you can widen those choices and make more informed decisions, 784 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 2: so not just casually saying yes and we sleep walk 785 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 2: into a future down the track we're having to untangled. 786 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Bez, Thank you Ree so much for 787 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: your time and preparation. We'll see you guys on the 788 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,760 Speaker 1: next episode of the next Thanks so much for listening. 789 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: If you got something out of this episode, I would 790 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: absolutely love it if you could send it on to 791 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, 792 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: give us a review, and make sure you follow us 793 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Female Athlete Project to stay up 794 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course 795 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: news and stories about epic female athletes.