1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: used by the world's most successful people to get so 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: This episode is another my favorite tip episode. The title's 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: probably pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: each of the interviews I conduct. Now, the extract from 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 1: my chat today is with Bj Fog. BJ is an 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: experimental psychologist who founded and directs the Behavior Design Lab 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: at Stanford University. If you've ever read anything about habit change, 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: you will know that BJ is the founding father of 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: this area. He is renowned for creating breakthrough methods for 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: changing human behavior and has recently put them all together 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: in a brilliant book called Tiny Habits. And in this 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: extract of my chat with BJ, we talk all about 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: his methods for actually making habits stick. So on that note, 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: let's head to BEJ. 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: So, Yeah, I have a method called Tiny Habits, which 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: is the title of my new book, and it's basically this, 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: and it's a method that I developed in about twenty ten, 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: and I started teaching it in twenty eleven, so I've 23 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 2: taught forty thousand people personally. And it goes like this. 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: So you take any habit you want and you boil 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: it down so it's super tiny. So instead of doing, 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: say twenty push ups, you boil it down to two. 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: Instead of flossing all your teeth, you do just one. 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: Instead of reading a Totle chapter, maybe it's just a sentence. 29 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: Then you find where that tiny version of that new 30 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: habit fits naturally in your life. What does it come 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: after and what you already do? Does it come after 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: you sit down on the subway, after you start your coffeemaker, 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: after you feed your dog, So you find where it fits, 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: and then to wire in the habit. After you do 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: the new behavior, let's say you read the paragraph in 36 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: the book. Then you reinforce it by a technique called celebration, 37 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: where you do something that causes a positive emotion inside yourself. 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: For me, one that works is I do a double 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: fist pump. So think tiger woods, but double and go awesome. 40 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: Or maybe think what Ian Thorpe used to do when 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: he would win his amazing races, and I'm sure there 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: was something he did at the end. Do that, and 43 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 2: that's a way of signaling to your brain that this 44 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: is success, and then your brain starts making that a habit. 45 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 2: You're hacking your brain through celebration. So it's basically those 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: three things. 47 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And in Tiny Habits, I think you write about 48 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: the celebration part being the key to supercharging habit formation. 49 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: Have I got that right? And if so, can you 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: kind of talk about that? 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 52 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: So most people have been led to believe that it's 53 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: repetition that creates habits, and that's wrong. 54 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: But what people have heard is. 55 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: Like, if you repeat a behavior of twenty one days, 56 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: it will become habit or sixty six days or one 57 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: hundred and two or whatever. 58 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: And it turns out that's not the case. 59 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: If you look at the studies that are cited for that, 60 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: those studies show that habit strength correlates with repetition, but 61 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: they don't show that it causes repetition. And what causes 62 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: it surprisingly at first, but once you see it, it's obvious. 63 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: It's the emotion you feel when you do the behavior. 64 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: So if you do a behavior and you feel successful, 65 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: then that behavior will become more automatic. So it's that 66 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: emotion that wires the habitat. So if you're good at 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: causing yourself to feel that positive emotion on demand, that 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: gives you superpowers in creating habits. And that's what I 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: teach in Tiny Habits. One of the chapters is all 70 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: about that, and there's like at least one hundred different 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: ways to do it, because I created an appendix or 72 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: I list one hundred ways, and you got to find 73 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: what works for you. But you're essentially hacking your emotion 74 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: in order to hack your brain wire in the habit. 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: I think that's so interesting because there are so many 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: kind of myths out there about how long it takes 77 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: to form a habit twenty one days, sixty six days. 78 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: But essentially what you're saying is that's it's just correlational. 79 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're making that mistake. 80 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: But what it also means there's two really really important 81 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: implications of shifting, and I'm glad you asked me this early. 82 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: One is you don't have to look at habit formation 83 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: as suffering. 84 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: Like if I can just. 85 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: Endure going to the gym for twenty one days. 86 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 3: Then I'll have this habit. Now that's not how it works. 87 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: Instead, you can create habits through a positive I mean 88 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: a positive experience and through positive emotions, so change doesn't 89 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: have to equal suffering. Number one, and then number two. 90 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: You can actually wire and habits really quickly if you 91 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: do a behavior. So I've got a pin here in 92 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: front of me, and let's imagine this pin is purple. 93 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: It's actually blue, but imagine it's purple. And I pick 94 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: up this pin and I start writing with it, and 95 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, my handwriting is neater, and 96 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: the pen is smoother on the paper, and this pen, Wow, 97 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: I feel so successful using this purple pin. Well, guess 98 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: what this afternoon, when I come back to write a 99 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: note to my mom or something like that, and I 100 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: have all these pins in front of me, I'll reach 101 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: for the purple pen because that's the one that made 102 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: me feel successful. And if if that feeling is strong 103 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: enough and clear enough and associated with the behavior, if 104 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: my brain associates this feeling of great handwriting and easier 105 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: to do, then I'm not going to be reaching for 106 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: the blue pin or the black pin or the red 107 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: pin anytime soon. I'm just going to always go back 108 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: to the purple pin. So that's what I would call 109 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: an instant habit, and that happens in our lives. Instant 110 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: habits where we do things once and then we stop 111 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: considering the alternatives. We always sit in that chair or 112 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: wear those shoes to events, or write with this pin, 113 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: or use this app or what have you. 114 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: That's so true. I've actually got a grain pin that 115 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: I love writing. And if I don't have that green 116 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: pen on me and I've got a different pen, I 117 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: sort of feel a bit, Oh, I don't have my 118 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: green pen and it's not as exciting. So actually that 119 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: that resonates quite strongly with me. Hello there, that is 120 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: it for today's show. If you found it useful, why 121 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: not share it with someone else who you think maybe 122 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: is struggling to form a new habit perhaps, And if 123 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: you have been spreading the word about how I work, 124 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's one of the ways that 125 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: this show has continued to grow. So thank you for 126 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: spreading the word. It is hugely appreciated. So that is 127 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: it for today's show, and I will see you next time.