1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: You know that Sky News revealed that the Northern Territory 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,039 Speaker 1: government has reached a confidential settlement with the Children's Commissioner 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: Colleen Gwynn that we'll see her resign. We got the 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: notification yesterday that she has resigned after a long career 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: within the Northern Territory amid calls for an independent investigation 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: into the failed attempt to have her prosecuted for abuse 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: of office. Now joining me on the line is the 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: independent member for Goid, Kezier Puric. Good morning to Kezier. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Oh, good morning, Katie, Good morning. 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Now Kezier, Well, you are one of the people that 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: has called for an independent investigation into the attempt to 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: have miss Gwinn prosecuted. You have said that you know 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: that this was basically a hr matter. 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: Well, for those who haven't followed this, a woman, a 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: position came up within the Department of Family Children or 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: Children's Commission offers and a panel interviewed people and made 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: a recommendation. The commission at the time Colin Gwynn didn't 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: want for whatever reason, that's what I led to believe, 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: and appointed or to appoint someone else who she knew personally. 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: So that's the crux of the matter, and from that 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: it just seems that everything just spiraled out of control 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: and somehow someone must have spoken to police, because they 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: wouldn't have done it off their own bat, I don't think. 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: And it became a serious police investigation as the period 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: I think of some two and a half three years, 26 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: and ended up in charges, etcetera, etcetera, which was basically 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: a human resources matter within that department. Now, I just 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: think the amount of money that was spent hounding this woman, 29 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: the amount of resources used when this is before the 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: IACH was set up, And so I suppose that a 31 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: question could be would it have been referred to IKACK 32 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: or not? I don't know, supposition because it wasn't around then. 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: So the police pursued it, and it's cost a lot 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: of money, not only public money through the policing, but 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: also you know, Colin Guyn and her family would have 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: sunk up quite a bit of money, you know, to 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: defend her good name, et cetera. So you know, this 38 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: is another example, and I'm not denigrating normal hard working 39 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: police people. We've got the zach Rohl think still hanging around, 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: still creating a lot of smoke, which we can't seem 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 2: to clear and now we've had this situation also involving 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: high level and investigative type of police work, so it 43 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: needs to We need to understand what was going on 44 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: for both of them for that matter, not just this one, 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: but this one in particular, and something needs we've done, 46 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: and the best way to do that is through an inquiry. 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: I was going to ask Cazier what needs to happen. 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that it should just be investigated by 49 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: the Eye Kak or do you think that there needs 50 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: to be some kind of other independent inquiry. 51 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: Well, no, I don't. I don't think if Gytach's an 52 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: appropriate body to do this, perhaps because I don't know 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: if it's better for someone else to comment on that. 54 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: But someway then needs to be an investigation, whether it's 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: apart through the Public Service Commissioner's Office or whether it's 56 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: directly from the Chief Minister's Office or the Minister for Police. 57 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting it should be an inquiry under the 58 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: Inquiries Act, which it tends to be a high level inquiry, 59 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: but something needs to happen for us to understand why 60 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: so much money was spent pursuing this person and laying 61 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: charges of whatever misuse of office, and then it all 62 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: suddenly dropped and disappeared. But along the way, a person's 63 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: reputation has been tarnished. That person has taken their family 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: and all their skills and knowledge and experiences out of 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: the territory and unlikely to return. So, you know, there's 66 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: quite a lot of losses on the board here and 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: we need to try and understand how it happened. How 68 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: did it happen that this happened the way it happened. Well, 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: you can only do that through a robust inquiry and review, 70 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: and that involves you know, police explaining, and that's always 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: going to be difficult. It's going to involve you know, PaperWorks. 72 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: I mean, for goodness, they went into the woman's bank account. 73 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: You know, why do they need to access her bank 74 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: accounts for and pointing or wanting to invent someone into 75 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: a high level office, which some would argue she wasn't 76 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: qualified for. But that's a moot point. Why did they 77 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 2: need to go into her bank account? They tapped her office, 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: they tapped her phone. They obviously did lot to have 79 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: access to lots of things that in itself sends alarm 80 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: bells ringing for me anyway. 81 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: Well, and Kisi, I know you're not the only one 82 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: who's sort of asked these questions. I guess so from 83 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: the other side of things, people will be going, do 84 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: we really need an investigation into the sets and going 85 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: to cost more money? 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: Pair comment, Yes, things things cost money to do this, 87 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: but perhaps it's also finding out. I mean, we need 88 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: to establish what was the root problem here, how did 89 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 2: it happen the way it happened, because we don't want 90 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: it to happen again to anyone else in this situation. 91 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: And there can be positives come out of these kind 92 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: of inquiries like this system. If there's an issue at 93 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: the top level of government department, this is perhaps how 94 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: they should be handled. If there's a problem with the 95 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: CEO or a deputy CEO, this is the course of 96 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: action that one should take, or the public service should take, 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: for the government should take. That's what can come out 98 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: of it, because clearly this is a complete mishmash and 99 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: along the ways ruined lives and ruined reputation and cost 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: a lot of tax payer dollars and personal money. And 101 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: I don't think that's right. 102 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: Keys. You are another thing I do want to ask 103 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: you about this morning, is there's another code yellow at 104 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: the hospital the opposition Later Leo Finocchio says it's the 105 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: fifth this year. So the Health Department have said that 106 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: they're not having to defer elective surgeries. I mean, there 107 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: is no doubt that it shows that we've got a 108 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: system that's under pressure and needs some serious investment. What 109 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: is your take on the number of code yellows that 110 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: we've had. I mean, in years gone by, I'd never 111 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: even heard of a code yellow, and I actually used 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: to work at the Health Department. 113 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: I know I've never heard had them until this year, 114 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 2: Codes yellow, code browns. I mean, it's just those things 115 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: that just seem to pop out. And you know, I 116 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: don't know about the choice of colors. Perhaps that's for 117 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: universal color for hospitals, but it does seem to be 118 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: under pressure. 119 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: Now. 120 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: Are we having more sick people? Are we having more 121 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 2: accidents and trauma cases? Maybe with population just growing, you know, 122 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 2: as time passes, but it's probably more the fact that 123 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: the system itself is under pressure. I saw the announcement 124 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: of the governments putting money towards another ward or somewhere 125 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: I don't know where, and that's good. That's got to 126 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: be welcome because we can't keep having our health system 127 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: under pressure. I mean, that's just so fundamental to the 128 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: well being of our society that you know we have 129 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: a robust and a strong and a responsive health system. 130 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: So you know, the question has to be asked, what 131 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: is happening. Is it more people are being sick or 132 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: we have we've got more people in the hospitals that 133 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: are not leaving for whatever reason, and other facilities adequate 134 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: do we need? I mean, we know that the Royal 135 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 2: Vale and Hospital purchases the right beds from the private 136 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: hospital and lucky we've got a prime. 137 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: Do that at a large cost at different times. 138 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: That's right. And of course we know we've got the 139 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: regional hospital out in Literfield council Land and that too 140 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: goes under pressure sometimes because I do know that there 141 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: are dementia patients in there full time because they can't 142 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: go into a nursing home because of their medical condition 143 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: and they can't live at home. So I was looking 144 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: and should we be looking at how we're looking after 145 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: our age care people who have dementia and other health 146 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: issues to do with their brain. To free up some 147 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: of the beds in our hospitals. I don't know, it's 148 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: it's a very complex. 149 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I know it's complex, but 150 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, I again, like I've had different people contact 151 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: me here at the station before to say, you know, Katie, 152 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: I've got an elderly mum who needs you know, who 153 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: needs dementia care, who needs who needs age care, and 154 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: we're not able to get her a space. You know, 155 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine, not even begin to imagine the stress 156 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: that that puts on a family if you're not able 157 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: to care for her yourself inside the home, or if 158 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, if the needs are too great to be 159 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: able to care for her but not able to get 160 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: a spot for a like, what do families do. 161 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: Well, Katie? I think what happens in some situations is 162 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: both men and women. It's not just a male thing. 163 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: Is some forms of dementia can make people very aggressive, angry, 164 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: you know. That kind of thing is just the wiring 165 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: and the brains courses or mixed up. And they can 166 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: be a risk in an age care home or a 167 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: healthcare home. But they can't be held at the people 168 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: at home can't look after them for the same kind 169 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: of reasons. For they need medical intervention and the best 170 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: place of that is in a hospital, you know, So 171 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: to look at them, they look normal, you know, the 172 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: megs and everything, but you know the wiring of their 173 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: brains all mixed up. So you know that person has 174 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: to stay in that hospital situation because that's the best 175 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: for that person and the family would love to have 176 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: them at home. I've got a personal case at the 177 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: moment of the said to mine it. Their hub is 178 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: in that situation, and you know it's a real strain 179 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: on the family, but you know the hospital is the 180 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: best place for them, even though they're not sick in 181 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 2: the tami or hard or anything. That's the problem. We've 182 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: got one of the issues, and it's growing case. It's 183 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 2: it's not decreasing, it's increasing more people because we're living longer. 184 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: That's partly the reason we're living longer. Therefore, these these 185 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: kind of medical conditions are presenting themselves. So perhaps we 186 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: need to really start to look at how are we 187 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 2: dealing as a community up here in the techworks all 188 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: of the Turkey dealing with people with the under the 189 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: alzhema's dementia banner. Yeah, and what's the future, what's the 190 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: future going forward for these people who will need to 191 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: be housed in a medical facility like a hospital. So 192 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: that's I think part of that's probably a segue, but 193 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: I think that's part of the issue as well with 194 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: our Code Yellows or Code Brown. 195 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Kesyopiric, I always appreciate your time. Thank you 196 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: very much for coming on the show this morning. Now 197 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: I understand you're you're not going to be on this Friday. 198 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: We will issue for the week that was on site. 199 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: There's a course at university. It's run elsewhere basically Pathway 200 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,599 Speaker 2: into Politics, and so other states have done it and 201 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: now we've done it up here. They run this course 202 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: to attract women of all kinds or places if they're 203 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: interested in a career in politics and in parliament. And 204 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: so this is the second year it's being done and 205 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: they have lectures at the Union and then people like 206 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: me and past politicians we get involved and contribute and 207 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: this Friday is the final session where they've got to 208 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: present their speeches and be at Parliament and then they 209 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: basically get judged. And apparently it's a good course and 210 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: I don't know the physical contents, but it's one step 211 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: to try and attract if you know, people say I've 212 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: got to get more Wan in politics, Well perhaps you 213 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: need to understand what's actually involved in the job outside 214 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: of the parliament. It's not just about parliament and speeches. 215 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: There's other things to pa. No, that's all right. 216 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: Well, we appreciate your time this morning. Keez here and 217 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: we'll catch up with you again very soon. Thank you.