WEBVTT - The Unmasking of Tattle Life’s Creator 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.000 Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.520 hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.920 Kate Torber and coming up on today's show, Tattle Lives, 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.880 founder has been unmasked during a landmark defamation case, and 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.080 Indy Clinton's quest to end cyberbullying. But first, Amy, you 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.920 are back. You've ented maternity leave a lot earlier than 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.240 I did. Yeah, it's been nine weeks, but it's actually 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:28.640 felt like quite a while, and I am so up 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.120 to date on all of the influencer news and drama 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.080 because all I have been doing is watching vlog after 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.960 log while I've been feeding Harry. I remember those good 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:38.920 old days. Enjoy it while a last because I'm on 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.000 no screen time with Jack at the moment and I'm 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.080 wishing i could be watching YouTube. Well, it's getting to 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:44.800 the point where I'm scraping the barrel because I was 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.360 watching content from Molly May from about four years ago, 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.880 and I thought, geez, my favorite influencers need to release 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.200 some more videos. I started watching Molly May and Tommy 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.800 Fury's Love Island series when I was breastfeeding. I was like, 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:57.279 I'm just going to take it back to the start. Well, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.360 there is a new Love Island coming out. It's playing 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.680 in the UK moment, so I will be watching that 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.720 as well. Tattle Life has finally had its day in court, 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.600 with the founder behind the snark website finally unmasked. For 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.039 over seven years, Sebastian Bond has hidden behind a veil 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.399 of anonymity, but that was ripped away on Saturday when 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.280 an Irish couple successfully sued tattle Life the defamation and harassment. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.760 Now that the owner's identity has been exposed, it's opened 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.440 the floodgates to further lawsuits. Now this is a landmark 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.039 defamation case. It is set to shake things up in 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.360 the influencer world. We have spoken a lot about tattle 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.119 Life on this podcast, but Kate, for those listeners who 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.280 aren't familiar with the side, can you bring us up 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:39.679 to speed. 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:40.200 So. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.319 Tattle Life is an online gossip forum that claims to 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:47.800 hold influences to account. It features countless threads dedicated to 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.240 discussing individual influences, and since its launch in twenty eighteen, 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.560 the website has reportedly attracted millions of views every month 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.800 and generated millions of dollars in advertising revenue. It's actually 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.880 become one of Australia's most visited websites, and the website 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.280 builds itself as a place for commentary and critique of 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.440 people that choose to monetize their personal life as a 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.880 business and release it in the public domain. Title Life 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.160 also claims that its purpose is to protect free speech 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.760 and protect the public's mental health. Now, back in twenty nineteen, 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.240 the owner of the site wrote, It's an important part 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.880 of a healthy, free and fair society for members of 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.200 the public to have an opinion on those in a 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.800 position of power and influence. That is why tattle exists. 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.960 We allow people to express their views on businesses away 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.320 from an influencer's feed, on a site where they would 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.839 have to go out of their way to read. This 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.120 is not trolling. When somebody has to actually point out 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.640 this is not trolling, you always know there is going 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.880 to be trolling involved. It's like when people say no 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.600 offense and then say something highly offensive. Exactly right, And 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:58.320 despite claiming to have a zero tolerance policy towards abusive, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.000 hateful and harmful content, tattle Life has become renowned, as 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.320 you said, Amy, for just that. It's been touted as 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.920 the most toxic corner of the Internet, with many influencers 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.600 complaining that they've been bullied to fame or doxed on 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.280 the website. And what makes Tuttle particularly dangerous is that 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.239 users are completely anonymous. There has been so much talk 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.160 recently about whether people should be able to post their 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.640 anonymous thoughts on the Internet. I mean, my view is, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.160 if you have to say something under the veil of anonymity, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.440 maybe you shouldn't be saying it, because you should be 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.600 able to put your face and name to whatever you're 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.200 going to say about someone or something. And we had 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.240 this discussion recently because in our group, a lot of 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.240 people started leaving anonymous comments and we found that the 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.440 tone totally changed, because when people can post something anonymously, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.720 it often turns toxic very quickly. Yeah, and it got 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.040 to the point where there were some threats where nearly 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.920 every single comment was anonymously posted. So we turned that 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.520 anonymous posting feature off and it has been game changing. Yeah, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.800 I'm just glad that Facebook actually gave us the ability 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:00.080 to turn that feature off. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:00.600 Now. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.200 There have been countless influencers that have called for Tattle 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.200 to be banned, and there's been a lot of unsuccessful 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.240 attempts until now. So two years ago an Irish couple 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.120 called Neil and Donna Sans took things into their own hands, 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.080 funding a legal battle against the website. So Donna is 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.799 thirty four and she has a fashion business, while Neil 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.960 is a forty two year old technology entrepreneur. Now I 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.280 wasn't familiar with them, but I assume that they must 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.159 be pretty well known influencers in Ireland, seeing as they 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.719 had a forty five page thread on the website. It 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.720 turns out though they are micro influencers. So at the 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.440 time of recording, Donna has thirty thousand Instagram followers, which 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.000 is likely to have been bolstered by the recent news. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.760 As for her husband, Neil, he's only got five thousand followers. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.400 And that's the thing about Tattle, you actually don't have 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.000 to be a big fish. Some of the threads about 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:55.320 micro influencers are just as extensive as the big influencers. Well, 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.839 that kind of goes against their whole motto, isn't it 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.760 on their website that you know, you have to be 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.200 earning a huge living to be able to be talked 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.360 about on the website. Exactly now, in February twenty twenty one, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.280 Donna and Neil Sanm's asked haddle life to remove a 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.360 forty five page defamatory thread about them. Now, the website 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.760 just ignored their request and they allowed the comments to 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.560 remain live on their website until May twenty twenty five. Now, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.600 the SAMs launched legal action against haddle life in June 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.640 twenty twenty three, and after a lengthy two year battle 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.200 that they self funded, they were awarded three hundred thousand 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.160 pounds as well as their legal costs. Wow, because you 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.000 would assume, as you said, that it was a big 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.760 name influencer that would have had the money to be 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.919 able to launch a legal case against addle life, not 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.000 some micro influencers. I mean, I got the vibe from 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.200 the Instagram account that they're quite wealthy. They had their 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.919 wedding in late Como. That says a lot. But at 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.960 the end of the day, this is more than about money. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.039 This is about standing up for content creators and people 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.520 that put themselves online and saying, hey, this is not okay. Well, 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.480 I think a lot of people on Tattle would be 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.560 shaking in their boots because during the proceedings, Justice McK 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.880 adlin said a day of reckoning will come for those 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.280 behind tattle Life and for those individuals who posted on 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:10.120 tattle Life. 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:10.599 Now. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.200 The judge deemed that the website had been set up 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.280 to deliberately inflict hurt and harm on others by allowing 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.440 the anonymous trashing of people's reputation. Justin mcadlin called the 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.760 website's action a calculated exercise of extreme cynicism. He went 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.039 on to say, this is clearly a case of peddling 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.680 untruths for profit. I mean that is the key. As 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.159 you said, this guy has been making so much money 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.160 having other people trash the reputations of influencers and content 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.040 creators and also just micro influencers who owned businesses. Yeah, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.440 this guy is making serious bank at the expense of 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:47.440 a lot of people. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:48.000 Now. 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.800 During the two year court case, the identity of the 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.160 owner of tatle Life was suppressed. In fact, it's been 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.680 a secret for more than seven years, with the owner 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:01.159 posting under the pseudonym Helen McDougal. That all changed, though, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.800 when Donna and Nil's application to lift the reporting restrictions 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.400 was approved and their real name was made public on Saturday. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.800 As we're revealed at the start of this segment. The 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.120 owner of Tatle Life is Sebastian Bond, if you can 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.760 believe it. He is a forty three year old food 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:21.240 influencer who runs a vegan cooking instagram called Nest and Growth. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.040 I'm assuming there's no Tato Life thread on him and 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.280 his content. Funny about that there isn't actually now, he 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.280 is better known under the alias Bastian Dowwood and has 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.960 attracted one hundred and thirty five thousand Instagram followers through 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.320 his wholesome online persona now. According to the Nest and 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.080 Glow website, Bond is a former office worker who quit 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.640 long days in London to move to the countryside and 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.880 share natural recipes and lifestyle instead of patrol website on 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.360 the side. Yeah, I mean he's making bank off it. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.320 So the funniest thing was when I heard this, I 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.160 was like, this is the same as when Dan Humphries 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.240 was unveiled as Gossip Girl. I know, it's just so 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.160 ironic that it's a make and also that he's an influencer. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.000 I mean, this is the same man who wrote on 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.520 Tattle that influencer marketing was insidious and that influencers prey 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.440 on the parasocial relationship that they have with their audience, 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.400 to quote, houldwink their followers into getting more money. Did 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.320 you have a look at his page, because I of 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.720 course went straight to there when I saw the news, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.880 and it was pretty uninspiring. He hasn't posted since twenty twenty. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.760 They were sort of ordinary photos of vegan food. Yeah, 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.360 he'd been posting since twenty sixteen, but as he said, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.600 he stopped posting in twenty twenty, which is kind of 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.920 odd because that's when everyone kind of started posting about food. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.720 I was wondering if maybe he bought the followers, because again, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.719 the content wasn't that crash hot. It was hard to tell, though, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.360 because I went into the comment section and it was 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.880 literally every influencer and their dog abusing him, which I loved. 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:48.360 Well. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.560 I wonder if he stopped creating content in twenty twenty, 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.040 because that's when Tattle would have exploded in popularity. We know, 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.719 when everyone was locked down in their houses, that's when 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.959 a lot of people would have turned to websites like tatte. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.640 So perhaps he stopped because he was making more and 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.040 more money and he didn't need to be working as 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.760 an influencer on the side. Perhaps he was scared that 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.400 he might get found out. I mean, it's pretty hypocritical 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.160 to slam influencers and then b one yourself. In terms 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.679 of him pretending to be a woman, it's so messed 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.880 up to think it's this man pretending to be a 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.880 woman and encouraging other women to tear women down well, 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.120 making so much money off it. It's bullshit and a 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.280 lot of men would probably look at Tattle and go, oh, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.199 that's just a whole load of women having a bitch 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.920 about other women. The irony that it's a man that's 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.040 all behind it. Yeah, I mean, as we touched on, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.960 it's reported that the avid revenue he was earning was 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.080 around a million dollars a year, and that was in 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.600 twenty twenty one, so I'm guessing it's gone up by then. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.480 And that fact alone completely contradicts Tattle Life's claim that 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.720 it operates solely for this sake of public discourse. What 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.360 I find really fascinating is more details are coming out 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.480 about this investigation that has unmasked Sebastian Bond. So the 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.720 couple's legal team have said that this was a global 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.360 in investigation, and it turns out that Bond used his 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.920 two businesses to try and conceal his identity. So one 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.960 is a UK registered company called Yuzu Zest, while the 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.760 other is registered in Hong Kong and it's called coum 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:17.480 quat Tree Limited. Interestingly, tattle Life claims to be operated 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.600 by a company called Lime Goss, which does really fit 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.360 with the whole citrus theme. It is not going on. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.000 We should have known he was a vegan blogger. There 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.319 were so many clues I know, and the SAMs legal 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.480 team have done an excellent job because they had to 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.720 use a mix of legal innovation and digital evidence to 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.200 track down Bond and his assets, including money transferred around 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.720 the world. According to the legal team, it was a 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:46.200 very sophisticated effort to avoid scrutiny and it appears the 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.360 writing was on the wall for Sebastian six months ago. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.440 So back in January, tattle Life shopped its users by 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.320 announcing it was closing due to threats. The website went 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.960 down for several hours and returned operating under a new name, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.320 eight Cafe, an interesting name. A lot of people said 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.440 it sounded like the Hate Cafe, which would have been 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.559 bang on. It could have called it like sour pusses 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.640 or something stuck with the citrus theme now. The owner 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.560 then posted a farewell message, writing, Unfortunately, recent threats directed 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.000 at members of one of our families have left us 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.360 with no choice but to shut down the site. It's 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.160 simply unfair for them to be impacted by something they 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.800 have zero involvement in. Now, that was pretty ironic. The 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.560 Sebastian Bond tried to take this moral high ground. You know, 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.080 when his family was dragged into it, it was terrible. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.200 How about when every other influencers family who has nothing 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.200 to do with the online world's being dragged into it? 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.040 Exactly very hypocritical. Now, Unfortunately, that shutdown was short lived, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.120 because just twenty four hours later, a Sebastian Bond changed 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.959 his mind. Under a pseudonym Helen McDougal, he wrote, after 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.960 further discussions, yet late into the night for some and 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.560 all afternoon for others, we have decided to deal with 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.640 the threats with legal action. As you will appreciate, we 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.959 won't be discussing the situation as it concerned family members 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.360 with no connection to Tattle. All matters are with our 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.360 legal team. He finished up by writing, once again, we 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.920 apologize for the stress of the last couple of days 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.400 and hope to see you all back on your favorite threads. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.320 Please post on topic on the threads and ignore this 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.559 whole situation while I was dealt with as not to 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.720 jeopardize it. Well, when all this news came out, I 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:21.880 went straight to Tattle to see if there was a 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.400 discussion on Sebastian Bond. Nothing. There was no one discussing it. Oh, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.720 so that twenty four to seven moderator that they claimed 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:34.000 to have is working for him. Yeah, exactly, well, inimpeccable timing. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.920 On Friday night, Indy Clinton announced on her Instagram that 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.120 she knew the identities of the anonymous trolls who had 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.080 been bullying her for years. So a few weeks ago, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.880 Indy revealed she'd hired a private investigator to find out 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.160 who was behind the constant harassment. And so on Friday night, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.439 she appeared on camera in a hoodie and black sunglasses 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.040 with the glass of wine and she was ready to 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.040 spill the tea and it didn't disappoint Yeah. It turns 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.880 out that her private investigator had put together a sixty 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.200 four page report which unmasked the trolls. Now Indy was 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.560 unable to name and shame the trolls due to it 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.200 being an ongoing case, but she did let a few 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.120 interesting titbits slip. So she dropped that a lot of 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.160 her trolls are from Melbourne, with many of them mothers. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.960 Did this surprise you, Amy, It didn't surprise me at all. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.520 I think anytime you see a troll on TikTok or Instagram, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.319 often when you click on their profile you'll see it's 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.440 either a motivational quote about loving everybody and being kind 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.679 and then it says like mama of three. So it 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.080 wasn't surprising. And also because Indy is a mummy vlogger, 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.720 she would attract a lot of other mums. But I mean, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.080 it obviously shocks you a bit to find out that 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.439 somebody who is looking after children. There's often a perception 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.960 around what a mother is like they're very caring and kind. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.760 To find out that it's actually mothers who have been 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:59.120 trolling Indy for years, it is quite sad. Really, it's sad, 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.360 and it does make me reflect and think, well, is 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.000 this a sign of women just having way too much 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.000 pressure on themsel I was not trying to make excuses 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.560 for these trolls because their behavior is absolutely awful, but 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.720 the fact that it is this particular demographic of women 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.200 who are probably trying to look after kids, trying to 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.960 have a job, and their outlet is trolling people online, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.440 and it's just very interesting from a psychological perspective. As 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.320 Indy pointed out, she's like, this is why the cycle continues, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.400 because you've got these mums who are sitting online trolling 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.280 other women. They're teaching their kids then to be bullies 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.120 in school. And that's one of the reasons why Indy 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.600 has gone to the lengths of hiring a private investigator 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.560 because she really wants this cycle to stop. And she 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.760 made it very clear that she's quite familiar with who 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.640 her biggest trolls are, so much so that she said 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.040 she knows what hospital one gave birth in, alongside their 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.080 abn and gynecologist name, and as for another, she said 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.360 that she could relate to them about regretting the tattoo 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.000 they got when they were eighteen, and that she knew 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.280 they went through birth out in twenty twenty four. She 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.840 also revealed that she's been engaging with some of her 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.560 trolls platforms just to let them know that she knows 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.080 who they are, and it was also to give them 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.920 an opportunity to apologize. Yeah, because she followed some of 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.000 them and then liked others posts on Instagram and TikTok. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.080 Can you imagine your heart dropping? You would be like, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.320 how the hell does she know who I am? I 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.800 went to India's following list because I thought, oh, I 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.400 wonder if it will pop up who she's recently followed, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.240 maybe some insight into who the trolls are. But I 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.480 actually couldn't find anyone. I mean, I love this tact 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.000 because we did something similar. Not that we get trolled 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.080 at all on the level that Indy Clinton does, but 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.440 we unfortunately do have a thread in Tuttle Life dedicated 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.360 to this podcast strangely, and there is someone that posts 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.560 a lot in there. They seem to have a real 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.720 interest in us, and we wait out who they were, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.520 so we just blocked them in all of our accounts, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.120 and I think they were a little bit confused. And 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.560 the funniest thing was they had been messaging us all 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.960 of these complimentary things and saying how well we'd be 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.120 doing on the podcast. So it's just bizarre behavior. Yeah, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.240 and that's the strange thing. Often people who troll influencers 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.160 at some point used to be really big fans, so 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.440 then they know a lot about them and something happens 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.240 and they completely switch. Now, as for Indy's biggest troll, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.440 this is how she addressed. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.960 Them after Melbourne. I mean Victoria, who was there? Oh 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.560 that's right? Wa? Hello Wa. My number one antagonist is 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.880 from Wa. How you doing. I probably haven't reached out 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.960 to you this week because I'm taking to court. I'm 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:32.680 just being honest. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:38.120 Now since the revelation, influencer Watchdog account dutch Minty has 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.920 shut down. Now, dutch Minty was very vocal in calling 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.200 Indi out about sharing her children online. It's got a 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.080 lot of people thinking that dutch Minty or whoever is 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.160 behind that account, is this super fan that Indy is sewing. Well, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.320 you would be in damage control, wouldn't you. I mean, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.560 this is a troll's biggest fear being unmasked. And as 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.280 we said, it's often people that you would never expect. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.600 I mean, some of these women who were about to 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.199 receive legal threats, they could hold really important jobs. They 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.080 could be teachers, they could lose their job, but that 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.440 they could be in healthcare. You just don't know who 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.320 these people are. Yeah. Now, Indie presented this in a 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.199 really joking manner and that was to gain traction. But 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.440 as clear, this is not a joke to her at all. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.320 She's spoke in length about wanting to use her platform 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.320 for good and to stop cyberbulling. She's also put a 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.000 lot of her own money into this, and on Sunday 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.440 she revealed just how much cyberbulling had affected her. This 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:32.240 is what she said. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.360 This has gone further than just naming and shaming. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:35.920 This is. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.800 An epidemic that needs to stop because lives are being taken. 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.399 And for me, right, let me just put this very clear. 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.920 For me, a few months ago, what I have endured 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.080 it was life or death. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.800 This made me so sad because we had Indy Clinton 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:56.919 on our show back in December, and she was an 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.560 absolute ray of sunshine. She was so generous with her time, 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.000 so down to earth, so easy to talk to. And 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.879 I mean, we've spoken about Indy Clinton. I feel like 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.040 we try and be very unbiased, So if we have 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.920 someone on the show, we're still going to talk about 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.720 them if they do something controversial in quoteation marks. So 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.760 we've been pretty open with our reporting on her and 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.679 she was so gracious to come on our show. We 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.280 had a laugh. She was absolutely beautiful personally. She spoke 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.359 a lot about the trolling as well, that she'd endure it. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.080 If anyone wants to go back and listen to it's 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.520 one of our Christmas episodes. And it obviously does take 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.840 a toll on people. I think often people forget that 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.040 influencers are real people and they see their lives online 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.840 and they don't think that these kind of comments get 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.240 to them, but they obviously do. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:39.560 Well. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.720 I think the worst thing about tattle Life is you 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.800 often see people direct in the comment at the influencers. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.560 So in a lot of threads they go, oh so 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.239 and so like, for instance, Indy, we know you read this, 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.240 you should do this. Like It's like these people get 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.119 a kick out of knowing that the influencers are looking 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:01.160 at it, and they're even harsher. Whereas a rich Sebastian 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.920 Bond claimed that this was a place where people could 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.119 talk freely about influencers without them seeing it, It's like, well, 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.480 it's just human nature to want to see what people 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.639 are saying about you, and it's really hard to not 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.280 look at threats. Yeah, and I would put it to 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.399 listeners out there. If there was a page where people 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.440 were talking about you, would you not be intrigued to 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.560 read it? And I think everyone would go and click 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.280 on it. Now Australian influencers are excited about this revelation. 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.679 There's been a lot of talk online about it. M 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.199 Davies shared her thoughts to Instagram, writing the idea that 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.920 we might soon have the means to identify those who 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.359 are projecting their own insecurities as online hate is a 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.840 huge and long overdue shift in this industry. It's fucking 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.480 refreshing and hopeful to witness slash see online right now. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.320 What's even more disturbing is that so many of these 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.280 people are parents, laugh out loud role models supposedly, Hey, 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.040 it's vile. I honestly can't comprehend how they find the 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.080 time or the desire to spread that kind of toxicity 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.440 while raising children. Karma has a way of circling back. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.800