1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Kate Torber and coming up on today's show, Tattle Lives, 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: founder has been unmasked during a landmark defamation case, and 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: Indy Clinton's quest to end cyberbullying. But first, Amy, you 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: are back. You've ented maternity leave a lot earlier than 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, it's been nine weeks, but it's actually 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: felt like quite a while, and I am so up 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: to date on all of the influencer news and drama 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: because all I have been doing is watching vlog after 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: log while I've been feeding Harry. I remember those good 12 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: old days. Enjoy it while a last because I'm on 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: no screen time with Jack at the moment and I'm 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: wishing i could be watching YouTube. Well, it's getting to 15 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: the point where I'm scraping the barrel because I was 16 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: watching content from Molly May from about four years ago, 17 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: and I thought, geez, my favorite influencers need to release 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: some more videos. I started watching Molly May and Tommy 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: Fury's Love Island series when I was breastfeeding. I was like, 20 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: I'm just going to take it back to the start. Well, 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: there is a new Love Island coming out. It's playing 22 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: in the UK moment, so I will be watching that 23 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: as well. Tattle Life has finally had its day in court, 24 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: with the founder behind the snark website finally unmasked. For 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: over seven years, Sebastian Bond has hidden behind a veil 26 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: of anonymity, but that was ripped away on Saturday when 27 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: an Irish couple successfully sued tattle Life the defamation and harassment. 28 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: Now that the owner's identity has been exposed, it's opened 29 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: the floodgates to further lawsuits. Now this is a landmark 30 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: defamation case. It is set to shake things up in 31 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: the influencer world. We have spoken a lot about tattle 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: Life on this podcast, but Kate, for those listeners who 33 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: aren't familiar with the side, can you bring us up 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: to speed. 35 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: So. 36 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: Tattle Life is an online gossip forum that claims to 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: hold influences to account. It features countless threads dedicated to 38 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: discussing individual influences, and since its launch in twenty eighteen, 39 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: the website has reportedly attracted millions of views every month 40 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: and generated millions of dollars in advertising revenue. It's actually 41 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: become one of Australia's most visited websites, and the website 42 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: builds itself as a place for commentary and critique of 43 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: people that choose to monetize their personal life as a 44 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: business and release it in the public domain. Title Life 45 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: also claims that its purpose is to protect free speech 46 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: and protect the public's mental health. Now, back in twenty nineteen, 47 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: the owner of the site wrote, It's an important part 48 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: of a healthy, free and fair society for members of 49 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: the public to have an opinion on those in a 50 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: position of power and influence. That is why tattle exists. 51 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: We allow people to express their views on businesses away 52 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: from an influencer's feed, on a site where they would 53 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 1: have to go out of their way to read. This 54 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: is not trolling. When somebody has to actually point out 55 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: this is not trolling, you always know there is going 56 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: to be trolling involved. It's like when people say no 57 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: offense and then say something highly offensive. Exactly right, And 58 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: despite claiming to have a zero tolerance policy towards abusive, 59 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: hateful and harmful content, tattle Life has become renowned, as 60 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: you said, Amy, for just that. It's been touted as 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: the most toxic corner of the Internet, with many influencers 62 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: complaining that they've been bullied to fame or doxed on 63 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: the website. And what makes Tuttle particularly dangerous is that 64 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: users are completely anonymous. There has been so much talk 65 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: recently about whether people should be able to post their 66 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: anonymous thoughts on the Internet. I mean, my view is, 67 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: if you have to say something under the veil of anonymity, 68 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't be saying it, because you should be 69 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: able to put your face and name to whatever you're 70 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: going to say about someone or something. And we had 71 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: this discussion recently because in our group, a lot of 72 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: people started leaving anonymous comments and we found that the 73 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: tone totally changed, because when people can post something anonymously, 74 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: it often turns toxic very quickly. Yeah, and it got 75 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: to the point where there were some threats where nearly 76 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: every single comment was anonymously posted. So we turned that 77 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: anonymous posting feature off and it has been game changing. Yeah, 78 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm just glad that Facebook actually gave us the ability 79 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: to turn that feature off. 80 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: Now. 81 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: There have been countless influencers that have called for Tattle 82 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: to be banned, and there's been a lot of unsuccessful 83 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: attempts until now. So two years ago an Irish couple 84 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: called Neil and Donna Sans took things into their own hands, 85 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: funding a legal battle against the website. So Donna is 86 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: thirty four and she has a fashion business, while Neil 87 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: is a forty two year old technology entrepreneur. Now I 88 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: wasn't familiar with them, but I assume that they must 89 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: be pretty well known influencers in Ireland, seeing as they 90 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: had a forty five page thread on the website. It 91 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: turns out though they are micro influencers. So at the 92 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: time of recording, Donna has thirty thousand Instagram followers, which 93 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: is likely to have been bolstered by the recent news. 94 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: As for her husband, Neil, he's only got five thousand followers. 95 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Tattle, you actually don't have 96 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: to be a big fish. Some of the threads about 97 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: micro influencers are just as extensive as the big influencers. Well, 98 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: that kind of goes against their whole motto, isn't it 99 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: on their website that you know, you have to be 100 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: earning a huge living to be able to be talked 101 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: about on the website. Exactly now, in February twenty twenty one, 102 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: Donna and Neil Sanm's asked haddle life to remove a 103 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: forty five page defamatory thread about them. Now, the website 104 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: just ignored their request and they allowed the comments to 105 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: remain live on their website until May twenty twenty five. Now, 106 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: the SAMs launched legal action against haddle life in June 107 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, and after a lengthy two year battle 108 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: that they self funded, they were awarded three hundred thousand 109 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: pounds as well as their legal costs. Wow, because you 110 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: would assume, as you said, that it was a big 111 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: name influencer that would have had the money to be 112 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: able to launch a legal case against addle life, not 113 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: some micro influencers. I mean, I got the vibe from 114 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: the Instagram account that they're quite wealthy. They had their 115 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: wedding in late Como. That says a lot. But at 116 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: the end of the day, this is more than about money. 117 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: This is about standing up for content creators and people 118 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: that put themselves online and saying, hey, this is not okay. Well, 119 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people on Tattle would be 120 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: shaking in their boots because during the proceedings, Justice McK 121 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: adlin said a day of reckoning will come for those 122 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: behind tattle Life and for those individuals who posted on 123 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: tattle Life. 124 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 2: Now. 125 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: The judge deemed that the website had been set up 126 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: to deliberately inflict hurt and harm on others by allowing 127 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: the anonymous trashing of people's reputation. Justin mcadlin called the 128 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: website's action a calculated exercise of extreme cynicism. He went 129 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: on to say, this is clearly a case of peddling 130 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: untruths for profit. I mean that is the key. As 131 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: you said, this guy has been making so much money 132 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: having other people trash the reputations of influencers and content 133 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: creators and also just micro influencers who owned businesses. Yeah, 134 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: this guy is making serious bank at the expense of 135 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people. 136 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: Now. 137 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: During the two year court case, the identity of the 138 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: owner of tatle Life was suppressed. In fact, it's been 139 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: a secret for more than seven years, with the owner 140 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: posting under the pseudonym Helen McDougal. That all changed, though, 141 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: when Donna and Nil's application to lift the reporting restrictions 142 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: was approved and their real name was made public on Saturday. 143 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: As we're revealed at the start of this segment. The 144 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: owner of Tatle Life is Sebastian Bond, if you can 145 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: believe it. He is a forty three year old food 146 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: influencer who runs a vegan cooking instagram called Nest and Growth. 147 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: I'm assuming there's no Tato Life thread on him and 148 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: his content. Funny about that there isn't actually now, he 149 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: is better known under the alias Bastian Dowwood and has 150 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: attracted one hundred and thirty five thousand Instagram followers through 151 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: his wholesome online persona now. According to the Nest and 152 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: Glow website, Bond is a former office worker who quit 153 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: long days in London to move to the countryside and 154 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: share natural recipes and lifestyle instead of patrol website on 155 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: the side. Yeah, I mean he's making bank off it. 156 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: So the funniest thing was when I heard this, I 157 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: was like, this is the same as when Dan Humphries 158 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: was unveiled as Gossip Girl. I know, it's just so 159 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: ironic that it's a make and also that he's an influencer. 160 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the same man who wrote on 161 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: Tattle that influencer marketing was insidious and that influencers prey 162 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: on the parasocial relationship that they have with their audience, 163 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: to quote, houldwink their followers into getting more money. Did 164 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: you have a look at his page, because I of 165 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: course went straight to there when I saw the news, 166 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: and it was pretty uninspiring. He hasn't posted since twenty twenty. 167 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: They were sort of ordinary photos of vegan food. Yeah, 168 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: he'd been posting since twenty sixteen, but as he said, 169 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: he stopped posting in twenty twenty, which is kind of 170 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: odd because that's when everyone kind of started posting about food. 171 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: I was wondering if maybe he bought the followers, because again, 172 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: the content wasn't that crash hot. It was hard to tell, though, 173 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: because I went into the comment section and it was 174 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: literally every influencer and their dog abusing him, which I loved. 175 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: Well. 176 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if he stopped creating content in twenty twenty, 177 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: because that's when Tattle would have exploded in popularity. We know, 178 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: when everyone was locked down in their houses, that's when 179 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: a lot of people would have turned to websites like tatte. 180 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: So perhaps he stopped because he was making more and 181 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: more money and he didn't need to be working as 182 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: an influencer on the side. Perhaps he was scared that 183 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: he might get found out. I mean, it's pretty hypocritical 184 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: to slam influencers and then b one yourself. In terms 185 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: of him pretending to be a woman, it's so messed 186 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: up to think it's this man pretending to be a 187 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: woman and encouraging other women to tear women down well, 188 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: making so much money off it. It's bullshit and a 189 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: lot of men would probably look at Tattle and go, oh, 190 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: that's just a whole load of women having a bitch 191 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: about other women. The irony that it's a man that's 192 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: all behind it. Yeah, I mean, as we touched on, 193 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: it's reported that the avid revenue he was earning was 194 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: around a million dollars a year, and that was in 195 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, so I'm guessing it's gone up by then. 196 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: And that fact alone completely contradicts Tattle Life's claim that 197 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: it operates solely for this sake of public discourse. What 198 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: I find really fascinating is more details are coming out 199 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: about this investigation that has unmasked Sebastian Bond. So the 200 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: couple's legal team have said that this was a global 201 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: in investigation, and it turns out that Bond used his 202 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: two businesses to try and conceal his identity. So one 203 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: is a UK registered company called Yuzu Zest, while the 204 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: other is registered in Hong Kong and it's called coum 205 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: quat Tree Limited. Interestingly, tattle Life claims to be operated 206 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: by a company called Lime Goss, which does really fit 207 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: with the whole citrus theme. It is not going on. 208 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: We should have known he was a vegan blogger. There 209 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: were so many clues I know, and the SAMs legal 210 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: team have done an excellent job because they had to 211 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: use a mix of legal innovation and digital evidence to 212 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: track down Bond and his assets, including money transferred around 213 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: the world. According to the legal team, it was a 214 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: very sophisticated effort to avoid scrutiny and it appears the 215 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: writing was on the wall for Sebastian six months ago. 216 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: So back in January, tattle Life shopped its users by 217 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: announcing it was closing due to threats. The website went 218 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: down for several hours and returned operating under a new name, 219 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: eight Cafe, an interesting name. A lot of people said 220 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: it sounded like the Hate Cafe, which would have been 221 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: bang on. It could have called it like sour pusses 222 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: or something stuck with the citrus theme now. The owner 223 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: then posted a farewell message, writing, Unfortunately, recent threats directed 224 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: at members of one of our families have left us 225 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: with no choice but to shut down the site. It's 226 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: simply unfair for them to be impacted by something they 227 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: have zero involvement in. Now, that was pretty ironic. The 228 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: Sebastian Bond tried to take this moral high ground. You know, 229 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: when his family was dragged into it, it was terrible. 230 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: How about when every other influencers family who has nothing 231 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: to do with the online world's being dragged into it? 232 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: Exactly very hypocritical. Now, Unfortunately, that shutdown was short lived, 233 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: because just twenty four hours later, a Sebastian Bond changed 234 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: his mind. Under a pseudonym Helen McDougal, he wrote, after 235 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: further discussions, yet late into the night for some and 236 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: all afternoon for others, we have decided to deal with 237 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: the threats with legal action. As you will appreciate, we 238 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: won't be discussing the situation as it concerned family members 239 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: with no connection to Tattle. All matters are with our 240 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: legal team. He finished up by writing, once again, we 241 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: apologize for the stress of the last couple of days 242 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: and hope to see you all back on your favorite threads. 243 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: Please post on topic on the threads and ignore this 244 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: whole situation while I was dealt with as not to 245 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: jeopardize it. Well, when all this news came out, I 246 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: went straight to Tattle to see if there was a 247 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: discussion on Sebastian Bond. Nothing. There was no one discussing it. Oh, 248 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: so that twenty four to seven moderator that they claimed 249 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: to have is working for him. Yeah, exactly, well, inimpeccable timing. 250 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: On Friday night, Indy Clinton announced on her Instagram that 251 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: she knew the identities of the anonymous trolls who had 252 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: been bullying her for years. So a few weeks ago, 253 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: Indy revealed she'd hired a private investigator to find out 254 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: who was behind the constant harassment. And so on Friday night, 255 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: she appeared on camera in a hoodie and black sunglasses 256 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: with the glass of wine and she was ready to 257 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: spill the tea and it didn't disappoint Yeah. It turns 258 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: out that her private investigator had put together a sixty 259 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: four page report which unmasked the trolls. Now Indy was 260 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: unable to name and shame the trolls due to it 261 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: being an ongoing case, but she did let a few 262 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: interesting titbits slip. So she dropped that a lot of 263 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: her trolls are from Melbourne, with many of them mothers. 264 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: Did this surprise you, Amy, It didn't surprise me at all. 265 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: I think anytime you see a troll on TikTok or Instagram, 266 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: often when you click on their profile you'll see it's 267 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: either a motivational quote about loving everybody and being kind 268 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: and then it says like mama of three. So it 269 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: wasn't surprising. And also because Indy is a mummy vlogger, 270 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: she would attract a lot of other mums. But I mean, 271 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: it obviously shocks you a bit to find out that 272 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: somebody who is looking after children. There's often a perception 273 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: around what a mother is like they're very caring and kind. 274 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: To find out that it's actually mothers who have been 275 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: trolling Indy for years, it is quite sad. Really, it's sad, 276 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: and it does make me reflect and think, well, is 277 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: this a sign of women just having way too much 278 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: pressure on themsel I was not trying to make excuses 279 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: for these trolls because their behavior is absolutely awful, but 280 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: the fact that it is this particular demographic of women 281 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: who are probably trying to look after kids, trying to 282 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: have a job, and their outlet is trolling people online, 283 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: and it's just very interesting from a psychological perspective. As 284 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: Indy pointed out, she's like, this is why the cycle continues, 285 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: because you've got these mums who are sitting online trolling 286 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: other women. They're teaching their kids then to be bullies 287 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: in school. And that's one of the reasons why Indy 288 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: has gone to the lengths of hiring a private investigator 289 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: because she really wants this cycle to stop. And she 290 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: made it very clear that she's quite familiar with who 291 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: her biggest trolls are, so much so that she said 292 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: she knows what hospital one gave birth in, alongside their 293 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: abn and gynecologist name, and as for another, she said 294 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: that she could relate to them about regretting the tattoo 295 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: they got when they were eighteen, and that she knew 296 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: they went through birth out in twenty twenty four. She 297 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: also revealed that she's been engaging with some of her 298 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: trolls platforms just to let them know that she knows 299 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: who they are, and it was also to give them 300 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: an opportunity to apologize. Yeah, because she followed some of 301 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: them and then liked others posts on Instagram and TikTok. 302 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: Can you imagine your heart dropping? You would be like, 303 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: how the hell does she know who I am? I 304 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: went to India's following list because I thought, oh, I 305 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: wonder if it will pop up who she's recently followed, 306 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: maybe some insight into who the trolls are. But I 307 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: actually couldn't find anyone. I mean, I love this tact 308 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: because we did something similar. Not that we get trolled 309 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: at all on the level that Indy Clinton does, but 310 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: we unfortunately do have a thread in Tuttle Life dedicated 311 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: to this podcast strangely, and there is someone that posts 312 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot in there. They seem to have a real 313 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: interest in us, and we wait out who they were, 314 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: so we just blocked them in all of our accounts, 315 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: and I think they were a little bit confused. And 316 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: the funniest thing was they had been messaging us all 317 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: of these complimentary things and saying how well we'd be 318 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: doing on the podcast. So it's just bizarre behavior. Yeah, 319 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: and that's the strange thing. Often people who troll influencers 320 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: at some point used to be really big fans, so 321 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: then they know a lot about them and something happens 322 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: and they completely switch. Now, as for Indy's biggest troll, 323 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: this is how she addressed. 324 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: Them after Melbourne. I mean Victoria, who was there? Oh 325 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: that's right? Wa? Hello Wa. My number one antagonist is 326 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: from Wa. How you doing. I probably haven't reached out 327 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: to you this week because I'm taking to court. I'm 328 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: just being honest. 329 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: Now since the revelation, influencer Watchdog account dutch Minty has 330 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: shut down. Now, dutch Minty was very vocal in calling 331 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: Indi out about sharing her children online. It's got a 332 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of people thinking that dutch Minty or whoever is 333 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: behind that account, is this super fan that Indy is sewing. Well, 334 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: you would be in damage control, wouldn't you. I mean, 335 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: this is a troll's biggest fear being unmasked. And as 336 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: we said, it's often people that you would never expect. 337 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean, some of these women who were about to 338 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: receive legal threats, they could hold really important jobs. They 339 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: could be teachers, they could lose their job, but that 340 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: they could be in healthcare. You just don't know who 341 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: these people are. Yeah. Now, Indie presented this in a 342 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: really joking manner and that was to gain traction. But 343 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: as clear, this is not a joke to her at all. 344 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: She's spoke in length about wanting to use her platform 345 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: for good and to stop cyberbulling. She's also put a 346 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of her own money into this, and on Sunday 347 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: she revealed just how much cyberbulling had affected her. This 348 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: is what she said. 349 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 2: This has gone further than just naming and shaming. 350 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: This is. 351 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: An epidemic that needs to stop because lives are being taken. 352 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 2: And for me, right, let me just put this very clear. 353 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 2: For me, a few months ago, what I have endured 354 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: it was life or death. 355 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: This made me so sad because we had Indy Clinton 356 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: on our show back in December, and she was an 357 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: absolute ray of sunshine. She was so generous with her time, 358 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: so down to earth, so easy to talk to. And 359 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: I mean, we've spoken about Indy Clinton. I feel like 360 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: we try and be very unbiased, So if we have 361 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: someone on the show, we're still going to talk about 362 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: them if they do something controversial in quoteation marks. So 363 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: we've been pretty open with our reporting on her and 364 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: she was so gracious to come on our show. We 365 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: had a laugh. She was absolutely beautiful personally. She spoke 366 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: a lot about the trolling as well, that she'd endure it. 367 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: If anyone wants to go back and listen to it's 368 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: one of our Christmas episodes. And it obviously does take 369 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: a toll on people. I think often people forget that 370 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: influencers are real people and they see their lives online 371 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: and they don't think that these kind of comments get 372 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: to them, but they obviously do. 373 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: Well. 374 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: I think the worst thing about tattle Life is you 375 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: often see people direct in the comment at the influencers. 376 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: So in a lot of threads they go, oh so 377 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: and so like, for instance, Indy, we know you read this, 378 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: you should do this. Like It's like these people get 379 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: a kick out of knowing that the influencers are looking 380 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: at it, and they're even harsher. Whereas a rich Sebastian 381 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: Bond claimed that this was a place where people could 382 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: talk freely about influencers without them seeing it, It's like, well, 383 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: it's just human nature to want to see what people 384 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: are saying about you, and it's really hard to not 385 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: look at threats. Yeah, and I would put it to 386 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: listeners out there. If there was a page where people 387 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: were talking about you, would you not be intrigued to 388 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: read it? And I think everyone would go and click 389 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: on it. Now Australian influencers are excited about this revelation. 390 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk online about it. M 391 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: Davies shared her thoughts to Instagram, writing the idea that 392 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: we might soon have the means to identify those who 393 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: are projecting their own insecurities as online hate is a 394 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: huge and long overdue shift in this industry. It's fucking 395 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: refreshing and hopeful to witness slash see online right now. 396 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: What's even more disturbing is that so many of these 397 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: people are parents, laugh out loud role models supposedly, Hey, 398 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: it's vile. I honestly can't comprehend how they find the 399 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: time or the desire to spread that kind of toxicity 400 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: while raising children. Karma has a way of circling back. 401 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: Always grateful for people like Indy Clinton, Nil San's and 402 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: Donna San's doing the work to figure it out. We 403 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: shouldn't be numb to receiving this bullshit day in and 404 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: day out, just because we choose to share more of 405 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: our lives online doesn't mean we deserve to be relentlessly 406 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: criticized and bullies. Openness is not an invitation for abuse. 407 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: Think about it anyway, Their time will come. I really 408 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: enjoyed hearing m Davy's thoughts on this because there has 409 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: been this blanket rule that if you put yourself out 410 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: there online, then you have to be okay with people 411 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: discussing you. And obviously we have this podcast where we 412 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: talk about influencer culture and things that influencers do, but 413 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: we really try to talk about the action rather than 414 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 1: the person, and we put our face and name to it, 415 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: so we're okay with the things that we say, and 416 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: we can have open discourse if someone like an influencer 417 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: isn't happy with it. But when you're posting anonymously, there's 418 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: no discourse there. You don't know who it's coming from. 419 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: You can't hold that person to account, and you if 420 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: you say the most disgusting things that you would never 421 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: ever say to a person. And I don't think that 422 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: that is a fair trade off for being an influencer, 423 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: particularly when you consider how saturated the influencer market is 424 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: at the moment. There are so many more influences than 425 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: they were, so nowadays an influencer, some influencers earn you know, 426 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: not even minimum wage. Some influencers are just doing it 427 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: for fun and they are copying so much ridicule that 428 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: they don't want to put themselves out there anymore. For example, 429 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: there's I know, there's a TikToker who has a million 430 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: followers in Australia and you might look at her and go, 431 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: oh my god, a million followers. She must be making 432 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: a packet, but she's not because Australia doesn't have the 433 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: TikTok creator fund. So I agree, it seems very unfair 434 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: when you're not even making like a lot of these 435 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: people are not making truckloads of money that you think 436 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: that they might be making because you think, well, maybe 437 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: that outweighs the good outweighs are bad. This person is 438 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: making a living off it, But it's often that they're 439 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: earning minimum wage and then being absolutely horn to shreds. Yeah, 440 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: because a lot of the threads about micro influencers are 441 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: just as vicious as we were saying earlier. And I mean, 442 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: even if an influencer was earning megabucks, it doesn't give 443 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: people the right to absolutely defame docs and harass them 444 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: and bully them until their mental health suffers from it. 445 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: But I suppose the only thing we have to compare 446 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: it to is how people treat celebrities. And people often say, oh, 447 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: we can talk about them and say whatever we want 448 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: because you know, they're living this lifestyle that you could 449 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: only dream of. But influencers are not. All influencers are 450 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: living the life. We've had a discussion about Tattle a 451 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: lot on this podcast and over the past couple of years, 452 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: and there's also been lots of chat in our group, 453 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: and I do want to put it out there. There 454 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: are some people who do use tattle in the correct way, 455 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: where they will actually hold an influencer to account. I mean, 456 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: there have been cases, for example, Ruby Frankie where a 457 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: lot of followers of her were concerned about her actions 458 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be that she was doing 459 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: the wrong thing. She's been jailed. So there are instances 460 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: where Tattle Life has done good. Unfortunately, there are just 461 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: more people who are using the website as a platform 462 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: for hate speech as opposed to those people who are 463 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: actually using it correctly as a call out platform. Well, 464 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and that might have been its initial intention, 465 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: but it's just become a cesspool of hate and an 466 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: echo chamber for everyone who doesn't like someone to get 467 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: together and literally try and destroy their life now. Leah 468 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: Atsinas has been vocal about her distaste towards tatle Life before. 469 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: When tatle Life looked like it was shutting down back 470 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: in January, she posted in our Facebook community saying that 471 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: the site gave her postnatal depression and she actually sadly 472 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: got to the point where she thought her daughter was 473 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: better off without her. Now, once the news broke, she 474 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: wrote on her Instagram story, anonymous bullies deserve to be 475 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: unmasked because of how fucking embarrassing it is to be one. 476 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: Imagine your family and friends finding out you bully people 477 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: online wild. I'm so glad this is happening. The damage 478 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: to this site and others did to me when I 479 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: was my most rule nearly broke me. What a fucking loser. 480 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: Lily Brown has also spoken up about Tutelelife, despite actually 481 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: say she didn't know about the website, which I found surprising. 482 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: She wrote, surely all us creators all band together and 483 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: take down the rest of the faceless accounts, destroying people's 484 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: mental health. It's about fucking time. And she went on 485 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: to say that over the last twelve months, she's felt 486 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: herself really pull back from sharing about her life because 487 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: of these faceless super fans who she says say the 488 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: most horrific things about her. And she said that she 489 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 1: would like to go back to posting more regularly and 490 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: not feeling like everything she says or does will get 491 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: picked apart by these people. I can see why she 492 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: feels that way, because, as you mentioned, there was a 493 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: Tattle threat about us, and I think it was really 494 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: getting into Sophie's head. I don't go and read that shit, 495 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: but I know she was somebody that would go and 496 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: have a look and it would make her feel shit. 497 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: And it does make you second guess yourself when you 498 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: are putting out content because you think, oh god, am 499 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: I sharing too much? Is it's going to be ridiculed? 500 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: Is it's just fodder for the trolls? So maybe we 501 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: are going to see if Tattle does get shut down 502 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: a lot better content. I mean, I've heard someath from 503 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: Barker talk about it recently. She talks of those golden 504 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: years of YouTube when everyone was so supportive, and I 505 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: think a lot of influencers don't share the way they 506 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: used to share because of this fear. Yeah. I think 507 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: in order for that to happen, though, social media platforms 508 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: need to get on board because, as in d Clinton said, 509 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 1: they're doing fucking nothing to help this situation. Like, I mean, 510 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: it's so easy for people to make up faceless accounts 511 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: control people. There needs to be some sort of verification 512 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: processes involved so that you can't create faceless accounts. I mean, 513 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: this case against hadle life really is a landmark case. 514 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: Legal experts believe that this case will set a precedent 515 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: for future action against digital defamation, and it's only a 516 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: matter of time before more victims come forward and possibly 517 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: even create a class action against tatle life, and that 518 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: would likely push for regulatory reforms in online speech and 519 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: anonymous platforms. And it really is set to open the 520 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: floodgates to lawsuits. I think. Well, the Sans couple who 521 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: sued tattle Life, they recently shared an Instagram post encouraging 522 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: creators and influencers to go and save their tattle threads 523 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: before they get deleted, because they are saying, well, one 524 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: this site is probably going to go down because as 525 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: you said, this has set precedence to go and save 526 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: the evidence before it gets deleted. I actually went on 527 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: there to start screenshotting ours, and I almost ready to 528 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: join the class action. Yeah I am, but I froze 529 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: because I again, I haven't looked at our threads since 530 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: I think it was March twenty twenty four, and last 531 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: time I did, I was heavily pregnant and the absolute 532 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: lies and bullshit these people were saying about me. I 533 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: relate to everything that Lea Asinas has said M Davies, 534 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 1: and I'm not putting myself on the same platform as 535 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: them because I'm fucking shocked that we even have a 536 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: Tattle thread where bloody nobody's but it hurts. And I 537 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: literally actually couldn't even screenshot it because I'm like, I 538 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: don't want to read what these people are saying. It's horrible, 539 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: But you know what, I will get someone to do 540 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: it for us, just because. But yeah, I'd happily join 541 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: that class Actually, imagine how many people that this is 542 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: going to run into the multi millions, Like it is 543 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: incredible how many people have been defamed. I mean, you 544 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: could go and spend one minute on Tattle and see 545 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: ten influences be completely and utterly defamed. 546 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 547 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: Well, now that Sebastian Bond has been on marsially, it's 548 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: only a matter of time before the trolls actually on 549 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: the website do Because I'm assuming that as a part 550 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: of this legal action, Title Life will have to hand 551 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: over their database. I know a lot of people sign 552 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: up using a fake alias, but surely with IP addresses, 553 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: the identities of these people are going to come out now. 554 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: A further review of this case is scheduled for the 555 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: twenty sixth of June twenty twenty five, where ongoing enforcement 556 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: of the damages and injunctions will be evaluated. As for 557 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: Sebastian Bond's future, he is facing substantial legal and reputational consequences, 558 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: as well as extensive financial orders against him and international 559 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: enforcement underway. I'm very excited to see what happens here. Well, 560 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: that is where we're going to leave things for today. 561 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: What an episode to return to. It was a massive episode. 562 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: Sophie will be absolutely crushed that she was a part 563 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: of this one, because I think she hates Huddle Life 564 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: the most out of all of us. It's a lot 565 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: of hate relationship, isn't it. Yeah, this podcast was recorded 566 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: on the traditional land of the Ghana people of the 567 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to elders past and present 568 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: and if you do enjoy the show, we will be 569 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: dropping a subscriber only episode on Thursday, and please don't 570 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: forget to leave us a review.