Speaker 1: Hello there, it's Amantha. I'm currently on a Christmas break,
Speaker 1: so I've handpicked a bunch of my favorite episodes from
Speaker 1: the last year to share with you. Okay, on with
Speaker 1: today's best of episode what are you doing right now?
Speaker 1: I can guarantee there is one thing that we're all
Speaker 1: doing in this moment, breathing in and breathing out. It's
Speaker 1: something that is part of our whole day every day,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely not something I'm ever thinking about. Christian
Speaker 1: O'Connell thinks a lot about breathing, and a week long
Speaker 1: retreat in breathwork became an absolute game changer. Now. If
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with Christian, he was Britain's best known
Speaker 1: and most awarded breakfast radio presenter, hosting his own top
Speaker 1: rating national breakfast shows and collecting more industry awards than
Speaker 1: any other presenter, and even becoming the youngest radio presenter
Speaker 1: ever inducted into the UK Radio Hall of Fame. But
Speaker 1: then he moved to Australia, where nobody knew him. The
Speaker 1: Australian Radio network took a punt on him, bringing him
Speaker 1: to Melbourne's Gold FM, a move that has worked out
Speaker 1: incredibly well. Now, my chat with Christian has been one
Speaker 1: of my favorite interviews this year. I can't think of
Speaker 1: a time that I had someone on the show who
Speaker 1: was just so raw and open and honest about work
Speaker 1: and life and the stuff that can make life really
Speaker 1: challenging at times. So we talk about the biggest lessons
Speaker 1: that Christian has learned in therapy and how he managed
Speaker 1: to overcome panic attacks that were crippling him literally straight
Speaker 1: before he was due to go live to air, and
Speaker 1: I even become Christian's very first breath work client during
Speaker 1: this chat. My name is doctor Amada Imba. I'm an
Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy in Ventium,
Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how
Speaker 1: to help you do your best work. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to know what's it like to have to be full
Speaker 1: of energy at six am in the morning every morning
Speaker 1: when Christian hosts his daily breakfast show on Gold one
Speaker 1: oh four.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have to be full of energy. I
Speaker 2: don't think people want to turn their radio on in
Speaker 2: the morning and sort of have that fake, nervous, desperate energy,
Speaker 2: you know, like someone trying to do an infomercial. I'm
Speaker 2: more like a dimmer switch. I am talkative at six
Speaker 2: am like this, but then who I don't need to
Speaker 2: be yelling. So I actually learned that I had to
Speaker 2: learn that lesson to be honest, because otherwise it puts
Speaker 2: you on just terrible fake this kind of pressure. You know,
Speaker 2: it's too hard to live up to that. You can't
Speaker 2: do that. What do they actually need from me? They
Speaker 2: need me to be present, and they do need to
Speaker 2: be energized. But the more I'm dialed into beforehand, and
Speaker 2: these are things I've learned the hard way through getting
Speaker 2: it wrong. I've been did breakfast radio for twenty three years,
Speaker 2: and it's only in the last couple of years I've
Speaker 2: actually learned to have some a bit more healthy rituals
Speaker 2: before a show to check in with my intention. And
Speaker 2: when I pay attention to that, I always have a
Speaker 2: better show. When I struggle it doesn't quite work, or
Speaker 2: I'm having a tough time or too much self critical thought.
Speaker 2: Is when I've got locked into that this isn't going
Speaker 2: well enough, I need to put more energy into it.
Speaker 2: I need to be ten out of ten. I'm letting
Speaker 2: myself down, letting the show down. Oh my god. And
Speaker 2: you know, you know where that.
Speaker 1: Goes absolutely, Now, can you talk me through your pre
Speaker 1: show ritual?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you'll have a film day with this,
Speaker 2: But they work for me, and so the work works. Now,
Speaker 2: the alarm goes off in the morning, and that's four
Speaker 2: twenty seven, and I hope might think, why does he
Speaker 2: set off at four twenty seven am? Any extra minute
Speaker 2: I can be in bed, I would be, so why
Speaker 2: wouldn't you so? Yet four twenty seven? The first thing
Speaker 2: I'd do for about five minutes is I will do
Speaker 2: some breathing energizing techniques that I've learned the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, and they really really help. They vary. I
Speaker 2: try not to do the same thing every day, as
Speaker 2: you'll probably realize the more we get into this conversation.
Speaker 2: I need I need that spontaneity. It's very important to me,
Speaker 2: and so if it was to the same every day,
Speaker 2: I'd get bored of it and stop doing it. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do something for five minutes, but a breathing kind
Speaker 2: of thing to get me going and energize, jump in
Speaker 2: the shower, and then head to work. And here's where
Speaker 2: it all starts. Actually, I guess the first thing is
Speaker 2: the would be the breathing stuff like five minutes. Then
Speaker 2: that time in the car twenty five minutes to get
Speaker 2: into the radio station. I would always listen to something
Speaker 2: that tunes me into my heart, and either it would
Speaker 2: be something funny or it might be a interesting podcast,
Speaker 2: just something which kind of I guess I'm trying to
Speaker 2: train myself to to find that part of me. You
Speaker 2: know that I want to come forward to do the show,
Speaker 2: and so I use that twenty five minutes. I actually
Speaker 2: look forward to it. It's a time when I can
Speaker 2: just silent my mind down before like six am, because
Speaker 2: when the show starts, things move quite quickly, and I
Speaker 2: move quite quickly on and off air. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: do that for twenty five minutes. When I get into
Speaker 2: the building, I say loo to the team that I
Speaker 2: like to be in my studio alone by myself for
Speaker 2: fifteen twenty minutes. I will force myself to I'll start
Speaker 2: with a blank piece of paper and I just write
Speaker 2: down a word. I think what I actually want, what
Speaker 2: I want the story today's show to be. So it
Speaker 2: might be joyful, it might be honest, it might be connected,
Speaker 2: whatever it is. I just I won't try and find
Speaker 2: the word. I just let it come through, and then
Speaker 2: I kind of like I dial into my intentions. I'm
Speaker 2: here to have fun, to be honest, and then I'll
Speaker 2: go through the emails that have come through since the
Speaker 2: show ended. I read all the emails, good, bad, and everything,
Speaker 2: because there's always there might be something I can use
Speaker 2: in them. Even if it's a story which isn't that good,
Speaker 2: there might be a final line at the end of it.
Speaker 2: Or I always have a look at everyone's job tie
Speaker 2: sort at the end of their emails. I think there
Speaker 2: might be something in that. I like going through all
Speaker 2: the emails. It feels like I'm connected to where they're at.
Speaker 2: And then Jack and Rio come into the studio. Rio
Speaker 2: is one of my producers and Jack is my sidekick.
Speaker 2: And then for fifteen minutes, I will say, oh, here's
Speaker 2: what's happened to me. Here's a couple of ideas I've got.
Speaker 2: Jack shares his, and we start to roughly a very
Speaker 2: pencil blueprint for that day show. Now there'd be some
Speaker 2: ideas that we already know that we might do on
Speaker 2: a Tuesday or a Thursday, but yeah, we start to
Speaker 2: just plot. I don't like to have too much in
Speaker 2: if I see a show where there's everything planned in.
Speaker 2: I do want to do that show. I can't stand
Speaker 2: the thought of that. I like that be some gaps
Speaker 2: for the spontaneity, for the magic, for the unpredictable to
Speaker 2: show up and do the show with us as well.
Speaker 1: That's that's quite the ritual in terms of how you've
Speaker 1: mapped that out. I find that really fascinating. I do
Speaker 1: want to ask more about a few things there. I
Speaker 1: want to get into breath work. And I remember when
Speaker 1: when I read your book, no one listens to your
Speaker 1: Dad's show, which I must say I loved, and it
Speaker 1: was actually because of sounds. It sounds a bit weird,
Speaker 1: but it was actually because of that book that I
Speaker 1: was so keen to have you on the show, because yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd heard you on the radio a little bit but
Speaker 1: not a lot. And your publisher sent me the book
Speaker 1: and I thought, this looks interesting. And I try to
Speaker 1: read at least the first chapter of books that i'm sent,
Speaker 1: but yours just scripped me. And I read it, you know,
Speaker 1: over a few days, and I'm like, I have to
Speaker 1: talk to this man. And then finally enough when I
Speaker 1: mentioned the interview to my mum, who doesn't listen to
Speaker 1: a great deal of radio. She said, Oh, yes, Christian O'Connell.
Speaker 1: I've heard him, and I've always thought he sounds like
Speaker 1: a very intelligent man.
Speaker 2: I don't get that a lot. I'll take that from you, mum,
Speaker 2: and please thank her. You must have just had a
Speaker 2: very small slip of the show one day where I
Speaker 2: might actually get somewhere near sounding intelligent.
Speaker 1: But the seriously, I loved your book, and you do
Speaker 1: talk about your breath work in the book, and for
Speaker 1: a memory you actually mentioned I think your breathwork teacher
Speaker 1: in the acknowledgments. Can you tell me what led you
Speaker 1: to learning breath work?
Speaker 2: Well, I guess like most of the stuff that we
Speaker 2: do as adults to try and bring us comfort, we'll
Speaker 2: try and steady us because it's when you think about it,
Speaker 2: just being a human on this strange planet, having our
Speaker 2: strange existence. It's a lot, isn't it. As you get older,
Speaker 2: you realize life is really odd, just being a human
Speaker 2: just getting through the day. Is It's really odd sometimes,
Speaker 2: isn't it? And I'm very lucky, isn't entitled? You know, guy,
Speaker 2: that I have a very good life. And so about
Speaker 2: seven or eight years ago, I had some very very
Speaker 2: severe panic attacks, and they only came right before my
Speaker 2: job doing a live radio show and my last show
Speaker 2: in the UK that I had for twelve years was National,
Speaker 2: went all around the UK and I had two and
Speaker 2: a half million listeners. Never had any fear about radio
Speaker 2: or stand up or live TV. Suddenly out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: really severe panic attacks about twenty minutes before going on air,
Speaker 2: and I guess i'd call it was a mini breakdown.
Speaker 2: When I look back now, it was the best thing,
Speaker 2: one of the best things that ever happened to me.
Speaker 2: It made me go and get help, even though that
Speaker 2: was reluctant at first. I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 2: I remember going to see this therapist and even being
Speaker 2: embarrassed that I'd had to go and see a therapist
Speaker 2: that I somehow screwed up myself and my life. And
Speaker 2: I said, I just want the panic cut out. I
Speaker 2: remember him just laughing lot, Oh, this guy is going
Speaker 2: to be a field day unpacked. This guy he wants
Speaker 2: the panic cut out, and he went, where is it,
Speaker 2: I'll do it now. And so through that I also
Speaker 2: learned breath work because I needed to, and I realize
Speaker 2: how how with panic or anxiety or anything, focus or anything.
Speaker 2: Our breath is everything. It's the first thing we do
Speaker 2: when we're born and we start our life, and it'd
Speaker 2: be the very last thing we do. And we don't
Speaker 2: breathe very well. We don't know much about it. But
Speaker 2: I've learned through learning breath work is just how much
Speaker 2: it can change your mental, physical, your zest for life.
Speaker 2: I've learned how to regulate myself ever get stressed or
Speaker 2: if I'm tired and I need a bit of energy
Speaker 2: rather than having caffeine. So yeah, I went away in
Speaker 2: a week long retreat, a breath work retreat. I loved
Speaker 2: it so much, went back the following year, did another
Speaker 2: week and you'll love this. I'm currently doing a course.
Speaker 2: It will take me about another four or five months
Speaker 2: to be a breath work master so that I can
Speaker 2: actually teach it. I would love to be teaching it
Speaker 2: next year. Not full time. I didn't expect, but it's
Speaker 2: only because it's helped me so much, so much, and
Speaker 2: I use it every day and it makes a big
Speaker 2: difference in my life. I'm like, I'd really like to
Speaker 2: be able to share this with people. I've struggled so
Speaker 2: hard to meditate. This feels like this is something I
Speaker 2: can do. Whether it's five or ten minutes. You don't
Speaker 2: need any more than that. It's not just that it's
Speaker 2: some that it's portable. I can do it in the car.
Speaker 2: You know. I'm trying to teaching my teenage daughters to
Speaker 2: help them, but they are that age fifteen and seventeen
Speaker 2: when they're just resistant to anything that comes to mom
Speaker 2: and dad. You know, they want to go the other way.
Speaker 2: So I've got to let them come to it their
Speaker 2: own way. But yeah, I'm such a big fan of it.
Speaker 2: It's free, it's very easy to learn, and they're all
Speaker 2: kinds of different breathing techniques you can do to help
Speaker 2: bring about different changes. Yeah, I do it regularly during
Speaker 2: the radio show before the show in the car. Like
Speaker 2: I said, I loved it better for it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm currently I'm actually learning. You know, I have to
Speaker 2: go on these calls once a week. I get up
Speaker 2: even earlier and at half three am I'm on a
Speaker 2: call for an hour and a half with an instructor
Speaker 2: mentor for that week's homework and how I've got on
Speaker 2: and teaching him online how I should teach somebody to
Speaker 2: do it, and I love all that. It's really nice
Speaker 2: learning something new that's nothing to do with what I
Speaker 2: do for a living. It'll be a part time thing
Speaker 2: for me next year. I don't know how it's online
Speaker 2: or in person, but that excites me doing that. I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's something new, that's something which isn't about me or
Speaker 2: trying to be funny or you know, sell something. It's
Speaker 2: just me trying to share something which really really has
Speaker 2: helped me through a really really tough time. And anxiety
Speaker 2: and panic attacks aren't something that go away. The panic
Speaker 2: attacks I don't have so much anymore now, but low
Speaker 2: level anxiety is something which has still be around in
Speaker 2: my life. Hasn't defined me, but I know the breathing
Speaker 2: really really really helps, and a lot of people since
Speaker 2: the book came out, like you, have said, oh, I've
Speaker 2: suffered panic attacks. What helped? Getting help? Going to see
Speaker 2: a therapist really helped massively. And the breathing thing, Matt,
Speaker 2: that was a big difference to me and will always be.
Speaker 1: So let's just say I'm preparing to do a podcast
Speaker 1: interview and like, even though I've been doing it for
Speaker 1: a few years now, I still get nervous before some interviews,
Speaker 1: particularly where I'm going to be speaking to someone who's
Speaker 1: been a hero of mine for years, and can you
Speaker 1: give me something that I can do, like in the
Speaker 1: five or ten minutes before I'm live? What can I do?
Speaker 2: First of all, why are you doing this?
Speaker 1: Why am I doing this? Well, firstly, I'm doing it
Speaker 1: to learn, and secondly, I'm doing it as a way
Speaker 1: to I guess, like scale the impact that I can have.
Speaker 1: So I'm very motivated by, you know, unpacking complex science
Speaker 1: and putting that into simple strategies that people can use
Speaker 1: to improve the way that they work. And for me,
Speaker 1: the podcast came out of a natural curiosity around how
Speaker 1: do the world's most successful people work? But also as
Speaker 1: a channel. I mean, podcasting is so brilliant for reaching
Speaker 1: lots of people with their strategy. Isn't impacting as many
Speaker 1: lives as possible? So that's why I do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can understand, right, all that big brain stuff.
Speaker 2: What feelings when it goes well or afterwards, when you
Speaker 2: go that is a groat? I really enjoyed that. What
Speaker 2: is that feeling if you have to give it a
Speaker 2: value a couple of words, what is that when it's
Speaker 2: going well, what is that? What does it do to
Speaker 2: you on a physical level? What does it do? Does
Speaker 2: it make you feel happy? What would you say?
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm so energized, I'm pumped up. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of on a high. Like you know, when I
Speaker 1: learned some really cool stuff, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to share that.
Speaker 2: Right. So now you've got that, Now you're in touch
Speaker 2: with why you really do it. Okay, Now close your
Speaker 2: eyes and think about the last chat you did where
Speaker 2: you really felt that you know, your words, energized, connected,
Speaker 2: and breathe in. Just close your eyes, breathe in through
Speaker 2: your nose. It's account of five. Don't have to be
Speaker 2: big breath, but just and then just told it be
Speaker 2: and then breathe out slowly again to the count of five.
Speaker 2: Three your nose again, and then breathe again through your nose.
Speaker 2: Look out of five. So wait a beat and slowly
Speaker 2: out through the nose again. Look at the five, four, three,
Speaker 2: two one one more round of this in through the nose,
Speaker 2: look aunt of five, one two, three four five, Have
Speaker 2: a gentle smile with your mouth that's closed, and then
Speaker 2: breathe out again. Look ount of five through the nose,
Speaker 2: count down five or three, two one? Feel that warm,
Speaker 2: energized glow and open your eyes and how do you
Speaker 2: feel now? Ah?
Speaker 1: So so good and calm and just different. I feel
Speaker 1: like I've shifted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like thirty seconds. Anyone could do it. Now,
Speaker 2: you understand why I like it. It's quick, it's instant.
Speaker 2: You don't even have to get into a woo woo
Speaker 2: of what's happening there, don't even try to analyze it.
Speaker 2: It's that's all in us. And now, if you were
Speaker 2: to go and do a chat now, whether it's this one,
Speaker 2: you will do it differently. You would enjoy it more,
Speaker 2: and you'll be more connected to yourself and there you're
Speaker 2: also to be more engaged and connected to what you're
Speaker 2: actually trying to do as well, rather than the strategy.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I get I understand about networking and what
Speaker 2: it can do for you, but that isn't really why
Speaker 2: you're doing it. It's something else.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: That's good. Oh, I feel like I feel like I've
Speaker 1: just had a shift and wear on to like act too.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, You've just become my first ever
Speaker 2: and what do they call them? Clients? Yeah, you've just
Speaker 2: been my first time protege.
Speaker 1: Let's say you now, you mentioned therapy and you write
Speaker 1: a lot about that in the book and your experience,
Speaker 1: and I feel like it's something that I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if I've ever talked about therapy with the
Speaker 1: guest on the show. And I'm a huge fan of therapy.
Speaker 1: I'm a psychologist myself, and I've spent years in therapy
Speaker 1: and I currently see a psychologist every fortnight. And I
Speaker 1: want to know for you, what have been the biggest
Speaker 1: lessons or things that you've taken out of the therapy
Speaker 1: that you've done.
Speaker 2: Great question. Like I said, I was so reluctant. I've
Speaker 2: don't know if it's a man thing. I think it
Speaker 2: predominantly is that a fit embarrassed about having to ask
Speaker 2: for help. We're really good at giving other people help.
Speaker 2: We're terrible at asking for help, aren't we. I tet
Speaker 2: know what I got from it really was compassion. When
Speaker 2: I went in saying I'm having panic attacks, I can't
Speaker 2: do my job. I think I'm going to you know,
Speaker 2: I can't want me to be any mortgage. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I can ever do it again. It was
Speaker 2: that bad. It was about understanding that it's not it,
Speaker 2: it's a part of me that's scared, and that part
Speaker 2: of me needs to be given I guess, compassion, listen
Speaker 2: to and work out what is what's worrying at the moment,
Speaker 2: if it had a voice, what is it trying to say?
Speaker 2: And dying to that because a lot of our critical
Speaker 2: self talk is so judgmental and so mean. It's like
Speaker 2: an inner heckla, you would never speak to someone in
Speaker 2: your life, I love one or colleague the way you
Speaker 2: talk to yourself in the mirror. And it's learning about
Speaker 2: that and just watching that and that's a day to day,
Speaker 2: rest of my life thing. But that I had to
Speaker 2: sum up the two years I did, that would be
Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway for me that I still use every
Speaker 2: day and use it when I'm talking to my daughters
Speaker 2: as well, is that you know, when they go, I'm
Speaker 2: feeling this, it's remind ourselves part of you is angry
Speaker 2: right now, part of you is really pissed off, and
Speaker 2: then understands you have to separate that because there are
Speaker 2: many different parts of us, you know, we all have
Speaker 2: different parts, and then actually to separate from that and
Speaker 2: just go okay, I am angry, which part of me
Speaker 2: is angry and why? And then you can have hopefully
Speaker 2: a better dialogue with yourself and that that and changes everything.
Speaker 1: But then you're in an unusual city situation where you're
Speaker 1: also like you're drowning in feedback from listeners and people
Speaker 1: who maybe have just listened for a few minutes.
Speaker 2: Well, see, even though isn't that interesting to use the
Speaker 2: imagery of drowning. If I thought of it like that,
Speaker 2: I'd have a flipp and panic attack. Han, I've learned
Speaker 2: to swim, and sometimes the waves crash over me and
Speaker 2: other times I can surf on it, and yeah, I
Speaker 2: can turn that on and off. On a bad day,
Speaker 2: your ego gets a bit of a din because someone
Speaker 2: shoots you an email and like hate this show, they
Speaker 2: need to fire you, and you like, then you have
Speaker 2: to remind yourself that's more about them. That's someone who's
Speaker 2: having a tough time moment they've they thought the best
Speaker 2: choice for them in that morning is to find my
Speaker 2: email address, type out an email, check it the spelling mistakes,
Speaker 2: click send, and that is more about them. And actually,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, other people's opinions of
Speaker 2: me really aren't my business when it comes to a
Speaker 2: radio show, you know, I don't want the show to
Speaker 2: be for everyone. I'd make a very different kind of show.
Speaker 2: I hope it's some people that are like me, and
Speaker 2: I put it out there and I hope it finds
Speaker 2: the right people and the right people find it. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I've got a lot of a healthier attitude towards feedback,
Speaker 2: should we call it, than I used to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to know more about that, because in
Speaker 1: your book you paint a really vivid image of what
Speaker 1: it was like packing up your bags from the UK,
Speaker 1: where you'd had this twenty year, super successful radio career,
Speaker 1: and deciding to move your whole family to Melbourn, where
Speaker 1: you really didn't know anyone except for a handful of
Speaker 1: people in the industry. And things are really tough when
Speaker 1: you started on air here, and people were really resistant
Speaker 1: to someone not from Melbourne doing a local radio show.
Speaker 1: So what strategies did you use to cope, particularly in
Speaker 1: those early days.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I wish I could have an intelligent answer. Red
Speaker 2: wine and spoiler alert it doesn't always help that strategy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I might as well say what I
Speaker 2: am English in Australia. Suddenly, as someone in the early
Speaker 2: days emailed me, no one invited you. I felt like
Speaker 2: that uninvited and how I just rocked up here and
Speaker 2: just put myself on a breakfast show and people like, no,
Speaker 2: so who i'd an English guy? We don't know him.
Speaker 2: You're not from here. You don't know about AFL, you
Speaker 2: don't know about John Farnham, you don't know about barn Zy,
Speaker 2: you don't know about Vida Crumble. And radio is built
Speaker 2: around intimacy. Intimacy is built around connection and shared experience,
Speaker 2: isn't it. And suddenly my accent, I think, didn't have that,
Speaker 2: and so there was a bit of a disconnect. However,
Speaker 2: looking back now, the single most exciting thing I've ever
Speaker 2: done in my radio career has come here, because it
Speaker 2: really really humbled me, stripped me of everything that I
Speaker 2: built up over a Korea. When you've got a following
Speaker 2: on TV, on radio, whatever, they're your people and they
Speaker 2: follow you from a radio station to a radio station
Speaker 2: and there you've got them, and that is amazing. I
Speaker 2: didn't have that here. Suddenly it felt like I was
Speaker 2: starting all over again, and I actually I needed that.
Speaker 2: I had to start all over again but differently, and
Speaker 2: that learning that first year of never ending trials in
Speaker 2: my two worlds, which was at home, my personal life,
Speaker 2: and then at work as well doing a radio show
Speaker 2: as an outsider. Oh yeah, really hard here, But I
Speaker 2: came for a reason and it changed my life in
Speaker 2: bigger ways and just about a radio show, and that
Speaker 2: I'll always be grateful for every single one of those
Speaker 2: hate emails. I'll always be thankful for I will.
Speaker 1: We will be back very soon with Christian talking about
Speaker 1: how he got to know Melbourne through Uber Drivers, how
Speaker 1: he gets on stuck when he has a bit of
Speaker 1: writer's block, and we'll be talking about life quakes and
Speaker 1: how to deal with them and the impact that they
Speaker 1: have on our relationships with those around us. Now, if
Speaker 1: you are not connected with me on the socials today,
Speaker 1: you might beg you the day to do so, because
Speaker 1: I share a lot of really interesting content through a
Speaker 1: couple of my social networks. So firstly, you can find
Speaker 1: me on LinkedIn just search for my name Amantha Imba
Speaker 1: and say hi that you found me through the show,
Speaker 1: or you can find me on Instagram at Amantha I
Speaker 1: You ride about getting to know Melbourne through Uber Drivers,
Speaker 1: can you tell me how you did that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously I had no car when we
Speaker 2: moved here, my wife and I and so I had
Speaker 2: to get to work every day and around the city,
Speaker 2: and so I'd use Uber a lot. And the great
Speaker 2: thing is those people are driving around a city all
Speaker 2: the time. They know all the suburbs, and so most
Speaker 2: people don't ever talk to them. They're staring down at
Speaker 2: their phones. I'm certainly wide eyed. I was a Sponge.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to get to know the city. The
Speaker 2: more I got to know it, the more I could,
Speaker 2: you know, have a better life on air and offair.
Speaker 2: You know what areas to go and take my kids
Speaker 2: to do? I'm a wife to go and eat, or
Speaker 2: let's go over here. There's supposed to be a great
Speaker 2: Italian restaurant. This is where all the Italian community is about.
Speaker 2: The food here is amazing. There's the Greek one. The
Speaker 2: Uber drivers, I would constantly say, what's this area, what's
Speaker 2: this area called, what's it known for? Where do you
Speaker 2: not like going? Where do you like going? What do
Speaker 2: you think of this monument? What do you think of that?
Speaker 2: What's the most popular place at the weekend? All this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I was constantly just taking it all on board,
Speaker 2: loaning the shorthand of a city in the UK. I
Speaker 2: just i'd had that. I know the burroughs and the
Speaker 2: suburbs to make a joke about in London, there's almost
Speaker 2: like a punchline. I didn't have that here, and I
Speaker 2: had to learn it as quickly as possible. And the
Speaker 2: uber drivers will always be very, very grateful for they're
Speaker 2: up my spies. I've been spying on us all these years.
Speaker 1: I love that. Now I want to talk about creativity,
Speaker 1: and I want to know for you, how do you
Speaker 1: get your creative juices flowing?
Speaker 2: I do you know what I actually I hope you
Speaker 2: will find this interesting. I don't know, but I love
Speaker 2: talking about creativity because creativity isn't limited to someone like
Speaker 2: me who writes or talks or you know, stuff like
Speaker 2: that for a living, or comes up with ideas. It's
Speaker 2: actually creativity. Like a friend of mine is a carpenter,
Speaker 2: and he once made these friends of ours as a
Speaker 2: wedding present a four poster bed. He made that from
Speaker 2: wood and carved it all and bit by bit I
Speaker 2: would go around his garage and workshop just see it
Speaker 2: looked like to me hadn't made much progress, and then
Speaker 2: suddenly there was a bed and I was genuinely right
Speaker 2: in all of his creativity, his focus, his craft. He's
Speaker 2: had to learn and master, get wrong, still get right,
Speaker 2: And that is creativity doing that, you know. It's like
Speaker 2: my plumber came around and I thought I would need
Speaker 2: a really big part that was going to cost thousands.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is the last thing we need
Speaker 2: this year. I was like, now I know I can do.
Speaker 2: I can do an improvise. That's creativity. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: we overemphasize the sort of creative fields, you know, of
Speaker 2: writing and talking and comedy and stuff like that and storytelling,
Speaker 2: and actually creativity is in bars. You hear it at barbecues.
Speaker 2: If there's a neighbor, a neighbor of mind told me
Speaker 2: a funny story the other day. He told it so
Speaker 2: well in that exchange with the two of us. That's creativity.
Speaker 2: That the choice and the words he had without maybe
Speaker 2: even realizing it, or he's just instinctive storyteller. So I
Speaker 2: enjoy finding creativity everywhere. You see it in nature. It's
Speaker 2: all around us. It is our nature. Everyone is creative.
Speaker 1: So what do you do like? Because you must experience
Speaker 1: times where you do get stuck or you've got the
Speaker 1: you know, metaphorical writer's block. What do you do to
Speaker 1: get unstuck?
Speaker 2: Stop looking directly at a blank piece of paper. It's
Speaker 2: too intimidating. I'll go for a walk. Then it's out
Speaker 2: of view. It's there, but it's out of view. The
Speaker 2: amount of I get a lot of ideas just going
Speaker 2: to walk in my dog. I talk to myself, you know,
Speaker 2: and our write down idea. I got a small team.
Speaker 2: I like working in a small team. I bounce off them.
Speaker 2: Jack and Pat who do the show with me. They
Speaker 2: give me ideas. They might tell me a story or
Speaker 2: just had an argument the other day about this, or
Speaker 2: what is it in a supermarket? When you do that
Speaker 2: and I'm like, go, oh, I know what we can
Speaker 2: do with that. Oh, I've got it reminds me of
Speaker 2: so and so. We could do this with it. So
Speaker 2: a very reactive, very reactive as well. Like I said
Speaker 2: about going through the listeners' emails, my job really is
Speaker 2: to pay attention. That's it. It literally is what we
Speaker 2: should all be doing. But I pay attention. So even
Speaker 2: if that's me yesterday and being crushed when I try
Speaker 2: and bond with my fifteen year old daughter and I
Speaker 2: mentioned a song that i'd heard was a really big
Speaker 2: hit on TikTok and she just raised her eyebrows because
Speaker 2: teenagers are not there to validate you, and she just went,
Speaker 2: oh god, that came out like last year and I
Speaker 2: was shot down. She gave me nothing and that again,
Speaker 2: I just got to pay attention to that. What is
Speaker 2: it you feel embarrassed? You know, I tried to bond
Speaker 2: with a teenager. It's so hot, So yeah, it's to
Speaker 2: pay attention.
Speaker 1: After I read your book and I've you know, followed
Speaker 1: you on social media, and you share a lot of
Speaker 1: personal stuff about yourself, which you know, particularly I think
Speaker 1: for a man, is fairly unusual. And you know, I
Speaker 1: was reflecting on just, you know, the idea of how
Speaker 1: much we share about ourselves in the last twenty four
Speaker 1: hours because I'm doing this campaign with LinkedIn at the
Speaker 1: moment called change Makers, and they emailed me yesterday and
Speaker 1: they said, hey, I know this wasn't on the on
Speaker 1: the kind of list of deliberables, but would you mind
Speaker 1: just writing a post for are You Okay?
Speaker 2: Day?
Speaker 1: Which is today? And I thought, yeah, yeah, sure, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to do that, and so sat down to
Speaker 1: write it yesterday afternoon, and I'm like, like, I didn't
Speaker 1: want it to be you know, some generic like you know,
Speaker 1: ask someone if they're okay today, you know, the world
Speaker 1: doesn't need more of those posts. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I think the thing that I
Speaker 1: was thinking about is the last couple of years of
Speaker 1: my life have been quite quite challenging and stressful. So
Speaker 1: I separated from my husband two years ago by choice
Speaker 1: and became a single parent, and that has all sorts
Speaker 1: of challenges, and I sort of I was always very
Speaker 1: conscious in terms of who I bring to work. I
Speaker 1: try to be very open and you know, transparent and
Speaker 1: vulnerable with my team. But in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: like with some of the stresses I've had to deal
Speaker 1: with over the last couple of years, it's like, well, I,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to treat them as a
Speaker 1: dumping ground for my stress. So I'd withhold a lot
Speaker 1: of the time. And so I sort of I wrote
Speaker 1: the post about you know, I guess I kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, part of me regrets maybe not being you know,
Speaker 1: more open and more vulnerable during the really tough times
Speaker 1: where I kind of chose not to share because I
Speaker 1: thought that's going to have a negative impact on the
Speaker 1: people around me. But instead I think maybe it created
Speaker 1: more distance. And I think about like the choices that
Speaker 1: you've made in terms of how much you share about yourself,
Speaker 1: and I want to know, how do you decide what's
Speaker 1: okay to share? And perhaps you know what you don't share.
Speaker 2: Yeah, once more, a brilliant question. And what I would
Speaker 2: just say to you, just thank you for sharing what
Speaker 2: you just did, is that often when we're going through
Speaker 2: a really tough time, and that is I had this
Speaker 2: great phrase recently, life quake, an earthquake in our lives
Speaker 2: and that lovely life quake, our lives will give us
Speaker 2: life quakes. They just will. That's just inevitable, what that is.
Speaker 2: We've all felt those already. You don't get to have
Speaker 2: a life without life quakes. And you've had a couple there.
Speaker 2: Often when we're right in that, when we're right in it,
Speaker 2: we don't know we're in the middle of it. We
Speaker 2: don't know if we're near the end of it. And
Speaker 2: actually we don't have a very good connection to ourselves,
Speaker 2: do we. So it's really hard if you haven't got
Speaker 2: good connection to yourself and a good ongoing conversation, a
Speaker 2: kind one with yourself. There's no way you can have
Speaker 2: it with somebody else. So you were just struggling to
Speaker 2: get yourself of the day, let allowing it, knowing how
Speaker 2: to open up a conversation with somebody. And you know,
Speaker 2: I get this at work as well. I used to
Speaker 2: think that being a team leader, which I am of
Speaker 2: my team, was about being superhuman and actually bringing you
Speaker 2: know the right time when it's appropriate. But vulnerability and
Speaker 2: honesty actually connects you to your team on a much
Speaker 2: deeper level than let's do this, let's do that. Here's
Speaker 2: the next big thing we're going to do. That's far
Speaker 2: more important. So, yeah, those life quakes when you're in them,
Speaker 2: But in terms of what to share and how much
Speaker 2: I think sometimes, I mean, I did share in the
Speaker 2: book about the panic attacks and therapy, just so you understand,
Speaker 2: I'd never told anyone other than my wife about No
Speaker 2: one knew about that. My mum and dad didn't know.
Speaker 2: I had to tell them a week before the book
Speaker 2: came out. I hadn't told anyone in eight years. My
Speaker 2: best friend, when he read the book, rang me in tears. Going,
Speaker 2: I knew we were hanging out, then you could have
Speaker 2: said something I could have done. I could have done,
Speaker 2: But like you, in that moment, that life quake, I
Speaker 2: was terrified. I was gripping onto everything. And as a man,
Speaker 2: you know, no sex, no gender, has it easier life.
Speaker 2: But as a man, I think we can all agree
Speaker 2: we're not raised to trust our emotions and to know
Speaker 2: how to share them. You're actually taught not to do that.
Speaker 2: It's dangerous. You can't trust people with your emotions. They
Speaker 2: might use it against you, take the mickey out of you,
Speaker 2: shame you, and make you feel ashamed. So suddenly, when
Speaker 2: you do have a life quake, you actually haven't got
Speaker 2: a lot of the skills. You don't know. You feel
Speaker 2: like you're weak. I did. That's why I resisted going
Speaker 2: to therapy and actually getting help, And so the book
Speaker 2: came out. Really of my daughters start to have tough times,
Speaker 2: and my wife said, why don't you tell them you
Speaker 2: know about your panic attacks? And I went, oh, I
Speaker 2: don't know. You know, I don't think they need to
Speaker 2: know that their dad's weak. And they went, well, what
Speaker 2: you're trying to tell them At the moment, you keep
Speaker 2: trying to tell them that it's human to struggle, which
Speaker 2: is what they were doing. And one day I was
Speaker 2: trying to connect with my daughters who was having a
Speaker 2: really tough time settling into a new school in here
Speaker 2: in Australia. You know, I was going, you know it's
Speaker 2: and I was giving her the lecture and she just
Speaker 2: looked in the eye and said, what do you know?
Speaker 2: And so I should have said, I do know about
Speaker 2: my own but my own story with this it's not yours,
Speaker 2: but he's my. I didn't. I kicked quiet, and that's
Speaker 2: when I thought, do you know what, I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell the story now? I'm not going to have in
Speaker 2: the shadows anymore. I need to share this with my kids.
Speaker 2: And it came to the conversations and what that brought us.
Speaker 2: That's when I start to think, well, maybe I'd been
Speaker 2: asking a couple of times, you should write a book
Speaker 2: about what it was like to come to Australia, the
Speaker 2: sort of the world, and start again, what do you write?
Speaker 2: And I'd resisted it because it felt pretty boring. That story,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it doesn't interest me. Now I had
Speaker 2: that oh, if I'm going to tell that story, I've
Speaker 2: got to take them back eight years to have them
Speaker 2: panic attacks, because if I didn't have them, didn't get help,
Speaker 2: didn't pay attention to what was really going on, I'd
Speaker 2: lost my mojo and start asking questions why I've I
Speaker 2: lost my mojo? What would get it back? What am
Speaker 2: I really needing right now? In my life, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have come to Australia. And so that's why I wrote
Speaker 2: the book. I wanted to share it, and I was
Speaker 2: terrified about sharing it, and several times I said to
Speaker 2: my life, I can't I'm not going to put the
Speaker 2: book out there. I'm really think I'm over sharing. I'm
Speaker 2: talking about therapy. I think the listeners are going to
Speaker 2: think I'm weak, you know. And I remember the week
Speaker 2: before the book came out, there was a profile in
Speaker 2: the newspaper on me and it mentioned anxiety in the headline,
Speaker 2: and I remember it was a Sunday. I remember throwing
Speaker 2: the newspaper at the floor and I started to cry.
Speaker 2: I was I felt ashamed. I'd used to seeing a
Speaker 2: picture of myself in the newspaper along the words with
Speaker 2: success or you know, something like that. I didn't want
Speaker 2: to I couldn't see myself like that was, Oh God,
Speaker 2: what have I done? And she was forty eight hours
Speaker 2: before the book coming out, and my wife looked to me, like,
Speaker 2: this is the start of it.
Speaker 1: The book.
Speaker 2: Strap in and I remember, I, you know, almost starting
Speaker 2: to have a full blown panic attack, and I had
Speaker 2: to go back and do my breathing and paying attention.
Speaker 2: You're sharing the story. You can't control how it's going
Speaker 2: to be received. And I remember I found the first
Speaker 2: couple of interviews, it's all what anyone want to talk about.
Speaker 2: You've read them. It's only about ten percent of the
Speaker 2: book about the panic attacks at the beginning, and then
Speaker 2: we go on to the rest of it, but it's
Speaker 2: all anyone want to talk about. And it kept almost
Speaker 2: bringing them on going back into it. But then something
Speaker 2: really life changing happened. I would get I was getting
Speaker 2: these emails and people who were stunned that I'd been
Speaker 2: that honest in it. And all I was getting from
Speaker 2: men and women was I had no idea, here's my story,
Speaker 2: or thank you for saying that. I just presume that
Speaker 2: people like you don't get it. You know, it was
Speaker 2: a story of hope mine and I guess we need
Speaker 2: that in the world. Don't we. And yet I was
Speaker 2: terrified of sharing that. I'm used to sharing stories where
Speaker 2: I can control where people laugh. This is one I
Speaker 2: couldn't and that really that was a radical, massive shift
Speaker 2: for me. I was, ah, yeah, so I do know
Speaker 2: what it's like to risk yourself. And sometimes when we
Speaker 2: risk ourselves, what actually comes back is it's great to connection,
Speaker 2: far greater connection. And actually I think we connect to
Speaker 2: each other when we hear stories of overcoming tough stuff
Speaker 2: and even just being honest about it and saying I
Speaker 2: went through this, because all people really feel is I,
Speaker 2: oh you too. Everyone's struggling in their own different way,
Speaker 2: in some shape or form. It's what it is to
Speaker 2: be a human, to be honest. So it's been life changing,
Speaker 2: really has in small ways, you know, But those are
Speaker 2: the important ways, aren't they?
Speaker 1: In life?
Speaker 2: The small ways.
Speaker 1: Something that caught my attention in your book that just
Speaker 1: popped back into my mind is the death Watch. You
Speaker 1: are a death watch for three days and I have
Speaker 1: to ask you about like why and what happened?
Speaker 2: Yes, death watch is a watch and you are put
Speaker 2: into it your age, your way, your activity levels, and
Speaker 2: it crunches an algorithm and lets you know roughly when
Speaker 2: you're going to die, and it then starts counting down
Speaker 2: backwards until your death, and so you look at it
Speaker 2: and you go, oh my god, time sticking away lost
Speaker 2: five minutes doing this. I thought it would make me
Speaker 2: stop wasting time and be a wake up call. All
Speaker 2: it does is it's satin traffic. Looking at it going
Speaker 2: three minutes closer to death. It raised my stress levels.
Speaker 2: It was bringing me closer to death, closer than the countdown.
Speaker 2: I remember. It became very problematic in my marriage. My
Speaker 2: wife would be talking to me, you know, talk about
Speaker 2: some arguments she'd had with her friend Marie, and I'd
Speaker 2: be looking at a death watch, going this is another
Speaker 2: flip in five minutes until I die, and my wife
Speaker 2: would get really annoyed going that watch. And then one
Speaker 2: day she just stamped on it. She broke it. One
Speaker 2: of the best things, many great things, my wife has done.
Speaker 2: When we're breaking that death watch. What a crazy idea
Speaker 2: for someone like me that overthinks anyway.
Speaker 1: Totally, Oh my gosh. Now I did. When I was
Speaker 1: preparing for this interview like two months ago, because we
Speaker 1: were meant.
Speaker 2: To do it a little more.
Speaker 1: I was at school, was open because we weren't in
Speaker 1: lockdown in Melbourne like we both had. And when I
Speaker 1: would drive my daughter to school she's seven and a half,
Speaker 1: I'd put on your show, the Christian O'Connell show, I'm
Speaker 1: Gold one oh four, And I explained to Frankie, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be interviewing this guy, like, what questions do
Speaker 1: you think I should ask him? And at that point
Speaker 1: in time, I think a song from Trolls came on.
Speaker 1: It might have been like a Cyndi law for song
Speaker 1: that's in Trolls. And so Frankie's question for you is
Speaker 1: do you like the movie Trolls? I do.
Speaker 2: I love kids movies. They're beautiful, aren't they the ones
Speaker 2: we grew up with? And then the ones that come
Speaker 2: along now, the ones that come along now are masterful
Speaker 2: bits of storytelling. I love the movie Trolls. I would
Speaker 2: like to ask your daughter why if she had to
Speaker 2: tell me one line, one sentence, why she loves that movie,
Speaker 2: what would she say. I'd love to know what it
Speaker 2: is she really loves about it.
Speaker 1: I will ask her, and I.
Speaker 2: Be if you could, and then report back to me.
Speaker 2: I do like the movie Trills, assure her.
Speaker 1: Now, Christian for people want to consume more of what
Speaker 1: you're doing and get the hands on. No one listens
Speaker 1: to your dad's show, which I cannot recommend highly enough
Speaker 1: actually thank you. It's just it's so brave and inspiring
Speaker 1: and like it's gripping. It's a gripping read. I was
Speaker 1: just completely enthralled. What is the best way for people
Speaker 1: to do all of that?
Speaker 2: I will say that I also say to you, I
Speaker 2: think that there is a great story and book in you.
Speaker 2: I'll say this to you as a bit of dispersonal advice.
Speaker 2: Whether or not you want to share this is entirely
Speaker 2: up to you that feeling. When you're worried that you're
Speaker 2: over sharing, you're not. You're actually putting into the world
Speaker 2: what's really really needed from you. Often what we are
Speaker 2: worried and think we need to hold back is actually
Speaker 2: a thing that's most it's most magical about us, that
Speaker 2: people really really really need more than any other part
Speaker 2: of us. So I don't know what that might stir
Speaker 2: up in you or nothing, probably, but just hearing your
Speaker 2: story what you've been through, I love I'd know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's scripping. I'd like to know about what how are
Speaker 2: you balancing that and work and what you do. Now,
Speaker 2: that's a book i'd love to read where you talked
Speaker 2: about that. That would be really interesting.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Christian. I will take that on board. IM
Speaker 1: actually working on a book for Penguin at the moment
Speaker 1: it is certainly has nothing to do with that, but
Speaker 1: maybe that'll be the next book. Maybe I'll pitch that
Speaker 1: to them. So Christian, back to you. How can people
Speaker 1: connect with you?
Speaker 2: Oh, you can find me hanging around looking around on Instagram,
Speaker 2: mister Christian O'Connell. You can know where you find your
Speaker 2: radio shows or podcast You can google the book, you
Speaker 2: can buy it in the shops and you can get
Speaker 2: it online book Topia, Amazon, support your local bookshops, magical places. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for the chance to have a chat. Really,
Speaker 2: and just I've really enjoyed talking to you. I loved
Speaker 2: all your questions.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That's high praise coming from you. Well,
Speaker 1: I've just I've loved this time to get the Christian.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I'm blessed. It's been the high light of my day.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Hello, that is it for today's show. If you enjoyed
Speaker 1: today's episode, why not share it with someone else? That
Speaker 1: you think would benefit and maybe get some useful tips
Speaker 1: to improve the way that they work. How I Work
Speaker 1: is produced by inventing with production support from Dead Set Studios.
Speaker 1: And thank you to Martin Nimba who does the audio
Speaker 1: mix for every show and makes everything sound so much
Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.