1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Hello, Katie Wolvan three point sixty online at Mix one

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,320
Speaker 1: O four nine dot com joining us on the show

3
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 1: right now. From the Nursing and Midwifery Federation of the

4
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,240
Speaker 1: Northern Territory, we have got the Branch Secretary, Kath Hatcher.

5
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,640
Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Kath.

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners.

7
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 1: Kath. We've been speaking over the last couple of weeks

8
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: about the changes that we have seen out at the

9
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,479
Speaker 1: Howard Springs quarantine facility. A couple of weeks ago we

10
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: caught up with Professor Mary Louise mcclaus and spoke of

11
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,879
Speaker 1: the changes when it comes to testing out at Howard Springs.

12
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: I guess we all sort of have waited to see

13
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: how things would pan out over the last couple of weeks.

14
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,879
Speaker 1: But by the look of the pressure release which we

15
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,440
Speaker 1: got over the course of the weekend, I see that

16
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: the staff out there, the nursing staff, are not happy

17
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: about these changes. Talk us through what they're telling you, Kath.

18
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 2: Well, they're highly concerned with the changes, that there's going

19
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 2: to be a breach in quarantine like there has been

20
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 2: over twenty five breaches already around Australia in quarantine we

21
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 2: have been in Darwin very lucky to have Howard Springs

22
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,039
Speaker 2: and that's a gold standard and so far we have

23
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,559
Speaker 2: had no breaches. But they feel that if they continue

24
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 2: the way they are doing the PCR saliva test instead

25
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 2: of the rapid antigen tests, that there is going to

26
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: be a breach. So you just got to be assured that.

27
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 2: There has been two tests that have been conducted over

28
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 2: the last seven to eight months in Howard Springs by

29
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 2: the OSMAT team YEP. They do a daily rapid antigen

30
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 2: test which is a very simple nasal swab and the

31
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: result is within fifteen minutes. Then they do a weekly

32
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 2: PCR nasosharan dual swamp which almost goes into the back

33
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 2: into your brain kind of type swab, and that is

34
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,919
Speaker 2: done weekly as a backup to the rapid antigen test

35
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 2: done daily. So what's happened a couple of weeks ago

36
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,239
Speaker 2: was they changed the sisters daily testing from the rapid

37
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 2: antigen testing, which is ninety nine point three percent accuracy

38
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 2: rate with a false positive in one in ten to

39
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 2: twenty thousand tests. They have now changed to continuing with

40
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 2: the PCO nasu pharanjeal swab weekly with daily PCR saliva tests,

41
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 2: which has an eighty seven percent accuracy with a much

42
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,880
Speaker 2: higher rate of false negative test. Did you yet to

43
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 2: go to the laboratory It takes up to twelve hours

44
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 2: to come back, cass.

45
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,640
Speaker 1: Did you hear the Chief Minister on the show earlier this.

46
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,839
Speaker 2: Morning, No, I did not, ultinately well.

47
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,120
Speaker 1: He had said, you know that the reason for this

48
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,119
Speaker 1: change has been based on the health advice from our

49
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 1: health professionals and he feels confident that this change is

50
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 1: the right decision to make. Does that make you feel

51
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 1: any more confident?

52
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 2: No? I think he's been fed the wrong information and

53
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,680
Speaker 2: I feel that it's not doctor Hughhegy and it's not

54
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 2: doctor Charles Pain. I feel that it is dtor Die

55
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,840
Speaker 2: Stevens that has done this and that I don't know

56
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 2: why she has gone against everyone else's in Australia advice.

57
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 2: You talk to Dr Mary Louise mcclaw. There's others around

58
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: Australia that are saying this is not evidence face with

59
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 2: changing to the PCR saliva test. It is evidence based

60
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 2: through Doherty Institute in Melbourne, the rapid antigen test that's

61
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 2: done the natal swab on a daily basis and as

62
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 2: back within fifteen minutes is the best evidence based swabs

63
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 2: that they should be conducting.

64
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 1: KATS, what are the risks here if we don't get

65
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 1: this right and if we stuff things up with this testing?

66
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: What is the risk?

67
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 2: Well, you've got nursing or are cleaners or any type

68
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 2: of the four to five hundred staff on a daily

69
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 2: basis having a PCER saliva test. That result is not

70
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,840
Speaker 2: back until perhaps the next beginning of the next shift.

71
00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,080
Speaker 2: In the meantime, they have gone back to their families,

72
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,600
Speaker 2: their friends, the community, drop kids at school, pick them

73
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 2: up and bang, oh, you've got a result of a

74
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 2: positive test. It might be a false positive, but you've

75
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 2: got a positive res and you've got others that now

76
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 2: need to go into quarantine, including that staff member, and

77
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,719
Speaker 2: you've put the community at risk.

78
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 1: KAS. What needs to happen here? Do they need to

79
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,840
Speaker 1: revert back to the old way of testing immediately?

80
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 2: They do, absolutely immediately. The DIA Stevens is in charge

81
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 2: of how its spring. She needs to change it back

82
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: from the PCR saliva to the rapid antigen nasal swab

83
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,279
Speaker 2: immediately to make the community of Darwin safe.

84
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: KAS. We asked the Chief Minister who signed off on

85
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,159
Speaker 1: this decision. He said that there's an expert panel who

86
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 1: discuss any changes like this, and said that it was

87
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: the Chief Health Officer, that it also included Len Nataris

88
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: and others. I mean, do you buy that.

89
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,039
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I have heard information that doctor Charles

90
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,480
Speaker 2: Paine didn't sign off on it. Doctor Hugh Hegey was

91
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 2: on hold at the time, So don't know where they're

92
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: getting their information from. But there's lots of expertise around

93
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 2: Australia that are saying that they're doing the wrong thing

94
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 2: at Howard Springs.

95
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 1: Goodness me, Well, cas I tell you I don't think

96
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: this issue is going to go away in a hurry.

97
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 1: What will the staff out there do if this testing

98
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: regime isn't changed.

99
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 2: Well, I have a meeting with Minister Files tomorrow afternoon

100
00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,360
Speaker 2: and if I don't get any good results, we will

101
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 2: look at perhaps industrial action, what could be striking or etc.

102
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,479
Speaker 2: Something along those lines.

103
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 1: So realistically we're in a situation here where the health

104
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 1: staff out at Howard Springs could go on strike if

105
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,719
Speaker 1: these changes do not revert back to the way that

106
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: they were before.

107
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 2: Well that's me saying that I don't want to go

108
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 2: down that it's not the members wanting to go on

109
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,840
Speaker 2: to strike. So it just get that clear me saying that,

110
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 2: But we need some sort of industrial action, whether I

111
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 2: go to the nt WorkSafe etc. For advice, but I'm

112
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 2: not happy. And lots of other people are contacting me

113
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 2: around Australia who are ipideremeologists. They are infection disease doctors

114
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 2: with expertise over thirty years around Australia and they are

115
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 2: not wanting this PCSS saliva test to continue. They want

116
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 2: the rapid antigen test back and that's what they are

117
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,360
Speaker 2: starting to use in quarrenty team facilities around Australia. They

118
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,840
Speaker 2: are going with the advice the OSMAT we're using and

119
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 2: they are doing the same and now OSMAT. Sorry, Now

120
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 2: how the Springs NTI government have gone the other way

121
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 2: and they've gone to a test that has had evidence

122
00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 2: space that's worse.

123
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what, Kath, it sounds like it

124
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 1: is a real mess this situation with the testing. I

125
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: hope that it's able to get sorted. You know, at

126
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we want to keep our

127
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,800
Speaker 1: health staff, all of the stuff out there at Howard

128
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: Springs as safe as possible and indeed the whole community exactly. Yeah,

129
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: Kath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time. Thank you so

130
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with me this morning.

131
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, thank you