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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, well, it's not an adult to adult conversation, and

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Speaker 2: I would say welcome to parent Who, because we do

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Speaker 2: talk to Webb blue in the face and the kids

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Speaker 2: really do think that they know better. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm astounded at how much our eight year old really

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Speaker 2: thinks that she knows compared to us.

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Speaker 3: She knows everything.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Gooday, this is.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy Families dot com.

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Speaker 2: Do you and that to six kids? I'm here with Kylie,

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Speaker 2: my wife and mum to those six kids as well,

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Speaker 2: and Kylie. Today a conversation that we're going to have

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Speaker 2: a courtesy of Craig Bruce, our executive producer. He said,

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Speaker 2: you guys need to talk about the fights that you

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Speaker 2: have to have with your kids, ten fights that parents

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Speaker 2: have got to have with their kids, because it's worth

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Speaker 2: fighting about this stuff.

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Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to do.

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Speaker 4: I don't really know where to go with this one

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Speaker 4: because I am so over fighting with our kids.

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Speaker 3: I would love what do you mean, what do you mean,

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Speaker 3: missus happy families. We don't fight with our children.

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Speaker 4: I would love to think that we could come up

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Speaker 4: with something better than a fight.

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Speaker 2: I'm the author of all these books about how to

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Speaker 2: not fight with your kids, but how to have a

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Speaker 2: happy family. What do you mean, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: you're talking about. Hang on a sec I just need

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Speaker 2: to go and put my head back in the sand

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Speaker 2: while you do this podcast on your own.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was about to say, anyone who has a

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Speaker 4: child a they don't even need to have six. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'd know that this is a conversation that you're going

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Speaker 4: to have over and over again.

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Speaker 2: The reality is, if you're in relationship with someone, anyone,

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Speaker 2: if you're in relationship with somebody, you are going to

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Speaker 2: have disputes. There's going to be conflict, There's going to

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Speaker 2: be disagreement. There are all different ways that we can

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Speaker 2: deal with those disagreements and those conflicts. But there will

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Speaker 2: be preferences that one person holds that are not consistent

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Speaker 2: with the preferences that the other person holds. And if

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Speaker 2: that person, the other person in the relationship, that's not.

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Speaker 4: You, happens to be twelve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say twelve months, But it

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Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. They're going to have a different opinion.

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Speaker 2: They're going to see the world differently, different perspective, different preferences,

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Speaker 2: and so on, and the conflict is bound to an issue.

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Speaker 2: And when they're younger, they're also fairly clumsy in the

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Speaker 2: way that they express their preferences and the way they

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Speaker 2: try to.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that that is just for the young.

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Speaker 2: No, of course not. I mean, your mum, did I

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Speaker 2: just say that? Oh my goodness, I can't believe I

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Speaker 2: just said that. We need to bleep that out. I'm

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Speaker 2: just kidding.

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Speaker 3: Let's move on.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about these ten fights that you absolutely

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Speaker 2: have to have. We've made lists, folks, We've made a list,

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Speaker 2: but we're only going to spend about one second on

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Speaker 2: each of them because we feel like there's a more

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Speaker 2: important conversation to be had than what the actual content

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Speaker 2: or topics of the fights are. Let's start and we'll

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Speaker 2: go through them in age order. Okay, So from the

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Speaker 2: youngest age, when do the fights start and what are

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Speaker 2: they about?

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Speaker 3: Through to middle childhood and then through to adulthood.

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Speaker 4: As soon as that baby lands in your arms. There's

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Speaker 4: fights about sleeping and eating.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and it gets worse as they get older, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is you're probably not going to

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Speaker 2: fight with them when they're little. You just, in a

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Speaker 2: perfect world, you will give them whatever they want. They

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Speaker 2: scream and you bend over backwards to make sure that

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Speaker 2: they're satisfied. I'm screaming that their needs are met. That

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Speaker 2: scream is a really effective way of making sure that

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Speaker 2: people pay attention and give me what I want. But

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Speaker 2: as they get older, the sleep conversation and the food conversation,

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Speaker 2: I mean, if we're unlucky, it can go for years.

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Speaker 4: Well, as they get older than we start talking about friends,

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Speaker 4: right and parties and sleepovers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah oh yeah, yeah, these these.

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Speaker 4: Become really big challenging issues as our kids start to

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Speaker 4: gain a little bit of independence and they just get bigger.

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Speaker 2: You didn't mention, you didn't mention the fights in early

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Speaker 2: childhood about it's time to leave the park, or you've

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Speaker 2: got to wear your seat.

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Speaker 4: Belt, or no, I'm not going to buy you something

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Speaker 4: every time I go to the shop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Or I know that everyone's probably anticipating

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Speaker 2: that we're going to say that the screen time fights

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Speaker 2: start when they're teenagers, but hello, have you ever taken

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Speaker 2: the screen off a two year old?

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Speaker 3: I mean that starts at the very beginning. I've lost count.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of fights that we could potentially have

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Speaker 2: with our kids, and as parents, by the way, let's

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Speaker 2: let's finish the list by the time the kids are

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Speaker 2: in their teen years.

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Speaker 3: We've got things like.

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Speaker 4: Social media, alcohol and drugs, intimacy, sex and pornography, resect, resect, respect,

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Speaker 4: rect respect, consideration of others, and I've actually put dress

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Speaker 4: on there. I think that there's, you know, some really

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Speaker 4: important conversations we need to have with our kids around

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Speaker 4: self respect and you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I guess how we display ourselves, yeah, and how the.

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Speaker 4: World sees us as a result. I'm not suggesting for

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Speaker 4: a second that we kind of dress for other people.

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Speaker 2: You're on the kind of ground here where some people

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Speaker 2: could get quite upset. But let's be honest. When we've

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Speaker 2: got a thirteen or a fourteen year old walking around

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Speaker 2: sending specific messages to the people around him or her

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Speaker 2: through the way that they're dressing, it can have an

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Speaker 2: impact on any number of things. So I think that

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Speaker 2: it's definitely worth a conversation. And there are going to

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Speaker 2: be some families who will think not at all, and

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Speaker 2: other families who are right there beside you on that one.

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Speaker 4: So I guess the conversation really is not so much

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Speaker 4: about how do we have these fights with our kids,

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Speaker 4: because any parent would suggest that the last thing they

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Speaker 4: want to do is have another fight.

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Speaker 2: But every single one of these things is a he'll

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Speaker 2: to die on from a parent point of view and

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Speaker 2: definitely from a child point of view.

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Speaker 3: And ultimately this comes down to this conversation about control.

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Speaker 3: As a parent. Some parents would say, let's go to

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Speaker 3: the clothing issue.

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Speaker 2: I will not let you leave the house looking like that,

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Speaker 2: or the alcohol issue. You're not going to that party

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Speaker 2: if there's going to be alcohol there, full stop, end

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Speaker 2: of story. You're twelve, or you're sixteen, or you're whatever.

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Speaker 2: And some parents will say, you're not leaving the table

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Speaker 2: until you've eaten all four of those peace.

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Speaker 3: Four of them. It's only four peace.

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Speaker 2: And you need to have something green, and you need

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Speaker 2: to have And so as parents, we see these things

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Speaker 2: as critically important and things that have to be controlled.

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Speaker 4: Why we see ourselves as being kind of in charge

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Speaker 4: of our kids' safety and they're well being.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're trying to protect them. It was more

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Speaker 2: of a rhetorical question, but I'm glad you answered it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's about saying I want you to grow up healthy

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Speaker 2: and strong.

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Speaker 5: And safe, and that's happy, and yeah, what happy can

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Speaker 5: Yet we spend so much time fighting. But the difficulty is,

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Speaker 5: even though each of these things matters, and matters a

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Speaker 5: great deal and is worth engaging in some level of

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Speaker 5: conflict over, it's how we have the conflict. And I

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Speaker 5: don't know that anything is really worth well, A couple

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Speaker 5: of things are.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely worth highlighting. It is worth having a fight

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Speaker 2: if your child's safety is at risk. There are sometimes

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Speaker 2: where we as a parent simply need to say no,

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Speaker 2: and I will stand my ground on this one. But

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Speaker 2: there are very few, not nearly as many of those

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Speaker 2: things as we often make out that there could be

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Speaker 2: very very few. In fact, when I think about the

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Speaker 2: last twenty three twenty four years of child wearing that

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Speaker 2: you and I have been through, I can really only

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Speaker 2: think of a couple of times in my life where

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Speaker 2: I have stood there and said I'm your father, and

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Speaker 2: I forbid it. It will not happen. I'm getting very

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Speaker 2: serious about this. I've got my cranky face on. No,

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Speaker 2: it just doesn't happen because we can usually work it

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Speaker 2: out without having to have a full blown battle with

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Speaker 2: our kids. So after the break, let's talk about how

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Speaker 2: we avoid the conflict but still get to work through

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Speaker 2: these tough things to keep our kids safe and help

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Speaker 2: them to make healthy decisions for their lives. Neurodiverse children

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Speaker 2: are beautiful, but they also bring unique challenges for parents

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Speaker 2: and educators. The world does not always accommodate them easily

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Speaker 2: or well. Communication, affection, behavior, learning, and almost every other

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Speaker 2: aspect of life can be challenging for the child and

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Speaker 2: their families. The webinar A Parent's Guide to Autism by

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Speaker 2: leaving autism expert Michelle Garnett, can help parents and educators

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Speaker 2: strengthen the bond with their autistic children for better outcomes

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Speaker 2: for children and families. A Parent's Guide to Autism is

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Speaker 2: available at Happy Families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast with a time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And I'm sure

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Speaker 4: that everyone is wanting to hear how we have a

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Speaker 4: conversation that doesn't lead to conflict with their kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So let's just put this out there typically,

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Speaker 2: if your child wants to do something, whether they're two

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Speaker 2: or twenty two, or let's say two or eighteen, because

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Speaker 2: once they're past eighteen, you've got limited input really in

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Speaker 2: what's going on.

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Speaker 3: But as we're raising these kids, when.

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Speaker 2: They want something that we're not willing to give them,

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Speaker 2: they will usually have a dead set, fared income, full

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Speaker 2: blown dummy spit and completely lose the plot before we

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Speaker 2: get to have a conversation with them. We had this

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Speaker 2: happened in the last few weeks in our home. We

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Speaker 2: were dealing with the screen issue all over again. We

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Speaker 2: said to one of the kids, we really need to

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Speaker 2: sit down and have a conversation. We don't want to

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Speaker 2: have a big battle of we don't have a big war.

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Speaker 2: You're big enough to have this conversation, so let's just.

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Speaker 3: Chat it through.

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Speaker 2: And instead of chatting it through, she lost the plot.

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Speaker 2: She slammed the door. She did, I'm not talking any

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Speaker 2: of the other boys parents in the world. This is

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Speaker 2: so unfair and just totally blew up. But later on

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Speaker 2: that night we were able to sit down and while

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Speaker 2: she was still not the most excited participant in the conversation,

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Speaker 2: we got to have the conversation, and there.

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Speaker 3: Was no conflict.

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Speaker 2: As we walked through that conversation, she'd calm down, she

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Speaker 2: knew that the conversation needed to be had, and we

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Speaker 2: were able to work things through reasonably well. And well,

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Speaker 2: we haven't had perfect compliance subsequent to the conversation, we've

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Speaker 2: been able to see vast improvements.

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Speaker 4: What was interesting in that specific context was just the

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Speaker 4: realization that, in spite of all of the conversations we've had,

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Speaker 4: she was still oblivious to what our concerns were.

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Speaker 2: And that's such an important thing for us to highlight.

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Speaker 2: If you're a parent and you think because I've had

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Speaker 2: the conversation it's done, think again. It doesn't go in

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Speaker 2: like honestly, You've got to have the conversation multiple times.

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Speaker 2: There's just no such thing as a one off. It's

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Speaker 2: an ongoing conversation. And I think that's why we as

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Speaker 2: parents get so frustrated because it is so exhausting.

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Speaker 3: It's such a.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what the word is that I'm

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Speaker 2: looking for. It's just so tiring all the time. So

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Speaker 2: I reckon, there's a couple of things that we can

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Speaker 2: do to frame this well. The first is, you know,

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Speaker 2: my ladder of life metaphor. I use it all the time, yep,

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Speaker 2: And the kids roll their eyes when they hear it.

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Speaker 2: But it's a good metaphor.

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Speaker 4: Only because you're on top.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: They will have the chance to do that in their

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Speaker 2: own lives at some point. But here's the metaphor. I

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Speaker 2: like to frame these conversations with the kids by saying,

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Speaker 2: life is like climbing a ladder, and I've climbed, and

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Speaker 2: then I say how many.

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Speaker 3: Rungs of the ladder I've climbed?

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Speaker 1: Two?

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Speaker 2: Come on, I've climbed nearly fifty rungs, like forty six,

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Speaker 2: forty seven rungs up this ladder of life. And the

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Speaker 2: view from forty seven rungs up, I can see a

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Speaker 2: long way into the distance. I can see a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff that's coming. And it's my job, as the

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Speaker 2: person higher up the ladder to warn the people lower

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Speaker 2: down the ladder that there's stuff coming.

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Speaker 3: Now, here's the difference.

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Speaker 2: When you're low on the ladder, like you're twelve, or

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Speaker 2: you're fifteen, or you're three or four, you can't see

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Speaker 2: very far at all, but but you think you can, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because you can see further now than you've ever been

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Speaker 2: able to see you above the trees.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: You're above the tree line now and you can actually

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Speaker 4: see and it looks like you can see the.

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Speaker 3: World right right.

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Speaker 2: The other thing about being further down the ladder, though,

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Speaker 2: and I explained this to the kids, is you get

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Speaker 2: to see all the detail. I can't see the detail

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Speaker 2: from up here. I'm pretty high up. I can see

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Speaker 2: stuff that's coming, but I'm not in the thick of it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not down in the mutin and the leaves and

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Speaker 2: in the trees and in the ground. I can't see

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Speaker 2: and hear what the kids at score are actually saying.

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Speaker 2: I'm not looking at the chats that you're involved in.

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Speaker 2: If we're talking about screens and social media, for example,

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what's going on there. I just

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Speaker 2: know because I'm so high up, I can see the

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Speaker 2: trouble that's coming. And therefore, while you know more detail,

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Speaker 2: I have more of this big picture of you. And

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Speaker 2: as your parent, it's my job to warn you about

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Speaker 2: what's coming and work out with you how we can

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Speaker 2: keep you safe, because you're going to be stuck in

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Speaker 2: the actual warfare.

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Speaker 3: That happens lower down the ladder.

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Speaker 2: Now that metaphor is a framing for a conversation, is

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Speaker 2: actually a pretty powerful way to help kids become open

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Speaker 2: to an alternative perspective, perspective that they're not real flash

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Speaker 2: on hearing otherwise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So what happens though, if you use that metaphor and

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Speaker 4: it doesn't work any magic. Your kid looks at you

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Speaker 4: like you have no clue what you're talking about. They're

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Speaker 4: not willing to meet you anywhere close to the middle

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Speaker 4: to be able to have what you would consider an

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Speaker 4: adult to adult conversation.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not an adult to adult conversation. And I

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Speaker 2: would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk to

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Speaker 2: web blue in the face and the kids really do

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Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm aststoundard

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Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that

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Speaker 2: she knows compared to us. She knows everything, absolutely, But

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Speaker 2: it's not about having an adult to adult conversation. This

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Speaker 2: is a parent to child conversation. And I think the

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Speaker 2: second thing that I would encourage with the framing, which

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Speaker 2: kind of answers this question, is to let your child

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Speaker 2: know this is a really big challenge for us, whether

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Speaker 2: it's going to bed on time or whether it's eating

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Speaker 2: good food, or whether it's choosing good friends or pick

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Speaker 2: your issue, all the way through to the screens and

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Speaker 2: the alcohol and the heavy stuff of the adolescent years,

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Speaker 2: the relationship will always come first. I love you no

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Speaker 2: matter what you choose. I love you no matter whether

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Speaker 2: you follow my requests and my preferences or not.

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Speaker 3: But what's going to.

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Speaker 2: Make you happier and healthier, what's going to keep you safer,

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Speaker 2: is for us to work together on this and find

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Speaker 2: a solution that we can both.

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Speaker 3: Feel good about. And just by making the relationship primary,

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Speaker 3: it actually.

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Speaker 2: Draws kids to us. It helps them to recognize that

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Speaker 2: we're there now. This is not well, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be really soft on you and let you do whatever

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Speaker 2: you want.

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Speaker 3: It's not that it's.

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Speaker 2: Letting them know I value the relationship. It's absolutely critical.

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Speaker 2: There's a third thing that I want to highlight, and

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Speaker 2: that is that it's not worth going to war over preferences.

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Speaker 2: There are some principles, some values that it actually is.

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Speaker 3: Worth going to war on.

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Speaker 2: It really is worth having the battle, and that might

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Speaker 2: be things to do with the genuine safety and health

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Speaker 2: and protection of your child.

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Speaker 3: If they've got preferences about.

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Speaker 2: Music and you don't like the music, or if they've

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Speaker 2: got preferences.

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Speaker 3: Around what foods they do and don't like.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've all got preferences, and it's just that

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Speaker 2: we're the grown ups, and so we get to we

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Speaker 2: just get to think that our preferences are normal and

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Speaker 2: everybody should toe the line with our preferences. But that's

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Speaker 2: not how it is at all. So preferences versus principles.

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Speaker 2: Preferences go easy. Principles, that's the stuff where you say, actually,

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Speaker 2: as a matter of principle, this is just a big

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Speaker 2: fat no. And again you won't have to do it

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Speaker 2: very often.

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Speaker 4: So I guess we've got a couple of take home

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Speaker 4: messages from today's conversation. There are going to be a

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Speaker 4: bajillion conversations that are worth having, right but hopefully if

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Speaker 4: we take the right approach that they don't actually need

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Speaker 4: to become fights. There might be some contention as you

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Speaker 4: start to work things through, but I guess that number

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Speaker 4: one take home would be that the relationship comes first

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Speaker 4: no matter what, and letting your child know that you

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Speaker 4: love them no matter what choices they make. But these

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Speaker 4: things are important, and we want to try and work

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Speaker 4: with them, not against them.

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Speaker 2: And I want to add to that, I always frame

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Speaker 2: with our kids that this is about being healthy and

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Speaker 2: about being safe, and about being wise. I don't ever

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Speaker 2: frame it in terms of what's right and wrong or

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Speaker 2: what's good and bad, because.

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Speaker 3: They really resist our morale.

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Speaker 2: And you can argue about what's good and bad based

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Speaker 2: on any number of other factors and judgments.

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Speaker 4: I don't have your life experience, so you saying that

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Speaker 4: social media is bad based on your knowledge and experience

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Speaker 4: doesn't equate to what they're seeing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, their experiences.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not bad, and everyone's on it and this

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Speaker 2: is my life. Whereas if we talk about safety and

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Speaker 2: being healthy and making wise choices, there's no moral contaminant

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Speaker 2: in there, and it's much harder to argue against that.

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Speaker 2: It's just better footing. That doesn't mean that as a

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Speaker 2: parent you don't believe that there's good and bad, right

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Speaker 2: and wrong. It just means that the conversations go smoother

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Speaker 2: when we remove the moral element and focus instead on

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Speaker 2: what's healthy, what's safe, and what's wise.

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Speaker 4: And I think lastly, the latter metaphor that you use

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Speaker 4: is really powerful to show perspective. And you know, if

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Speaker 4: you wanted to take it to the extreme, go and

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Speaker 4: climb a ladder together. Yeah, ask them what they see

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Speaker 4: from their rung three rungs up and your rung ten

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Speaker 4: rung up? What can they see and what's the difference.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you don't even need a ladder.

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Speaker 2: You can stand in the upstairs window versus the downstairs

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Speaker 2: window and just look at the different perspective, or put

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Speaker 2: someone on the roof, like, massive, massive difference is there.

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Speaker 2: I just want to highlight as well though. Expect contention,

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Speaker 2: expect hardship, Expect some sort of a challenge because the

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Speaker 2: kids do get annoyed. They want their perspectives to be

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Speaker 2: heard and they want their own way. So hopefully this

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Speaker 2: has been a helpful conversation about how you can navigate

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Speaker 2: those challenges. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 2: Ruland for Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like more info about making your family happy,

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Speaker 2: please join us at Happy families dot com. Do AU