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Speaker 1: This is a journey pop up the virule Plesy releases

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Speaker 1: the History of Sound.

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Speaker 2: And what a journey it's been this history of sound

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Speaker 2: this week.

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Speaker 3: Certainly has We've gone some really archaic stuff, going back

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Speaker 3: to those cylinders playing music and you know, all kinds

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Speaker 3: of audio.

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Speaker 4: Love it in the early days came on a Milo Tenness.

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Speaker 3: This is so bizarre really, but I've been doing a

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Speaker 3: bit of more com I know, quite bizarre. And then

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Speaker 3: we moved into things that were made of various things

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Speaker 3: including plastics and stuff, you know, cassettes and eight tracks,

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Speaker 3: and we talked about vinyl records. Today we're moving into

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Speaker 3: the current day and we're delving today into the digital

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Speaker 3: world of streaming and downloading and so much more. And

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Speaker 3: from the curator, one of the curators at the National

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Speaker 3: Film and Sound Archive of Australia to talk about it,

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Speaker 3: Joe McMahon.

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Speaker 2: Joe welcome, Hi.

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Speaker 4: Great to be here, Joe, Joe.

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Speaker 1: So we've just talked about all the formats that we've

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Speaker 1: already gone through. When was the point where everything changed.

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Speaker 5: Well, really the nineteen nineties was when the technology came

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Speaker 5: in that you could download music to your computer, you

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Speaker 5: could use your computer for storage. But at the time

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Speaker 5: in the nineties, CDs were absolutely booming, so they were

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Speaker 5: the most profitable medium for the recorded sound industry. So

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Speaker 5: the industry at the time wasn't very interested in going digital,

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Speaker 5: and most of the kind of digital music sharing around

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Speaker 5: the nineties was illegal. And then yeah, exactly, and then

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Speaker 5: the big game changer was iTunes. So the iPod and

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Speaker 5: iTunes came in in two thousand and one, and then

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Speaker 5: a couple of years later the iTunes store started, and

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Speaker 5: you know, you could buy a song for it was

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Speaker 5: nine nine cents in America and I think a dollar

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Speaker 5: sixty something here, which is a reasonably small amount. So

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Speaker 5: that really boomed legally paying for music in a download format,

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Speaker 5: and that kind of steeply grew like CDs had, but

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Speaker 5: then only lasted actually a couple of years. That music

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Speaker 5: download format has been the kind of reigning supreme over

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Speaker 5: the recorded industry.

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Speaker 1: Don't think I'll ever forget watching Steve Jobs holding up

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Speaker 1: you know, those amazing launches that they used to do,

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Speaker 1: and holding up that tiny little little box and saying

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Speaker 1: you will have this mint, and I'm thinking, get out

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Speaker 1: of here, what are you no, I've seen my record

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Speaker 1: collections today we lost your mind.

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Speaker 4: So what exactly was an MP three or is an

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Speaker 4: MP three?

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Speaker 5: So MP three is a file type, an audio file type,

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Speaker 5: and it was released officially in the early nineties, so

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Speaker 5: around ninety two. And what it does is it compresses

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Speaker 5: music files so they're smaller in size, but you still

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Speaker 5: get the audio quality that's quite similar to the original source.

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Speaker 5: So it means that because they're compressed files there take

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Speaker 5: up a lot less room and you can store a

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Speaker 5: lot more because obviously your computer in the nineties and

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Speaker 5: early two thousands were storing a lot less than it

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Speaker 5: can today. So really compressing those files made music very

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Speaker 5: portable and transferable. You could file share MP three's, you

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Speaker 5: could rip them off CDs, you could burn them back

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Speaker 5: onto CDs and give to a friend, So it really

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Speaker 5: changed the game m P three's in terms of music sharing.

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Speaker 1: Well, we thought music had become portable when we got

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Speaker 1: a discman with a cat play in it, and we

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Speaker 1: thought that was the coolest thing ever. So you can

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Speaker 1: imagine for those of us who lived through it to

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Speaker 1: find out that we can take our entire collection with

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Speaker 1: us when we leave the house. It's just so game changing.

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Speaker 1: It really is incredible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, job, yeah, And then oh yes.

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Speaker 2: No, no, you keep going, keep going, it's good.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 5: I was just thinking today we have even more access

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Speaker 5: to a big collection through streaming, you know that exactually

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Speaker 5: millions of songs.

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Speaker 4: But I'm sure we'll get there collection any words. Anything.

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Speaker 3: This really did change the game for the music industry,

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Speaker 3: didn't it. But not always in a good way. Even now,

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Speaker 3: the artists are still up in arms about the tiny

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Speaker 3: percentage of royalties I get compared to their recorded music

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Speaker 3: in other ways in the old days. But you know,

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Speaker 3: when Napster and Limeline that came in, there was a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of people. It's pirating, wasn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so.

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Speaker 5: Napster came in in the late nineties, in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 5: and that was a dramatic drop in CD sales. So

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Speaker 5: the music industry did not like that, and they actually

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Speaker 5: retaliated with quite a lot of lawsuits. And interestingly, it

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Speaker 5: wasn't just the industry that was doing legal battles, and

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Speaker 5: it was also bands and producers. I think Metallica and

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Speaker 5: Doctor Dre were amongst those suing over illegal downloads. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and so those peer to peer kind of services where

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Speaker 5: you could file share were hotly contested by the music industry,

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Speaker 5: but it didn't stop them from coming about. You had

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Speaker 5: naps and then also LimeWire and pirate Bay, and so

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Speaker 5: there was really a decade of those services being really

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Speaker 5: widely used, and actually a lot of the legal battles

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Speaker 5: kind of gave a bit more publicity ironically to those services.

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Speaker 5: I think Napster got a lot more members after the

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Speaker 5: legal battles because people found out about it.

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Speaker 4: That's not true, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Another way digital changed everything is the way that the

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Speaker 1: music even gets to us from the musicians. For a

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Speaker 1: lot of them, they're able to just cut out the

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Speaker 1: middle guy, and all of a sudden, musos are recording,

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Speaker 1: especially young ones, are recording things in their bedroom and

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Speaker 1: then distributing it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I think that's been one of the most

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Speaker 5: interesting and fantastic changes over the last twenty years or so.

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Speaker 5: And that came about through both the distribution methods, but

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Speaker 5: also we're able to access a lot of the recording

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Speaker 5: technology that would have been you know, gate kept by

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Speaker 5: big productions, studios or previously. You can download ableton or

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Speaker 5: a similar software to a laptop and create something at home,

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Speaker 5: and so we're kind of and then also obviously move that,

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Speaker 5: you know, distribute your own files through something like Spotify,

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Speaker 5: so you're moving from going straight from artists to audience,

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Speaker 5: which has been a total change in how things are done.

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Speaker 5: And I think social media actually was an extremely important

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Speaker 5: forerunner for that. I think about how for years, MySpace

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Speaker 5: was the place where you discovered music, and that was

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Speaker 5: musicians uploading their their content to MySpace and people discovering.

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Speaker 5: So it's definitely kind of cutting out the middleman, which

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Speaker 5: has been a really interesting development.

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Speaker 3: Something that happened ten years ago wouldn't never have happened before,

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Speaker 3: and that is you Two's Songs of Innocence all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden landing in your i Tunes in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: And people were really pissed.

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Speaker 3: If I weren't happy didn't ask for this because ninety sixty,

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Speaker 3: the biggest band in the world, the Rolling Stones of

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Speaker 3: the Beatles, didn't come to your house and put an

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Speaker 3: album in your collection. They just, without asking You two,

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Speaker 3: just dropped them into your iTunes. People weren't happy, were they?

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Speaker 5: I completely forgot about that? Yeah, but don't big people

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Speaker 5: liked being told what to listen to or you actually

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Speaker 5: had read a lot of distrol over your library then too,

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Speaker 5: you've changed the pictures and the song yet rather and things,

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Speaker 5: so having someone enforced the way it looked was probably

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Speaker 5: not very good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think also another thing that we should mention that

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Speaker 1: the digital developments have given us is, in addition to

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Speaker 1: our music and everything, is the rise of the podcast.

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Speaker 4: We wouldn't have all these podcasts if.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't for the way we get our audio and

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Speaker 1: everything now.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, And they've diversified what we listened to completely.

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Speaker 5: Podcasts were they came about out of audio blogging, internet radio,

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Speaker 5: you know, MP three file development and that same time

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Speaker 5: the late nineties and early two thousands, and in two

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Speaker 5: thousand and four we actually got the term podcast and

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Speaker 5: by two thousand and five iTunes were supporting it as

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Speaker 5: a format and that become absolutely massive. Today the majority

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Speaker 5: of Australians listen to podcasts and they're a huge medium

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Speaker 5: that give us a whole wide range of voices that

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Speaker 5: we might not have necessarily heard in traditional media.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you've also got the other digital world allows you

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Speaker 3: to do really cool stuff like I'm in a shop

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Speaker 3: the other day at the caron Oup shops, and are

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Speaker 3: he the start of a song and I know this song.

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Speaker 3: I know this song, but I just excuse me, I

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Speaker 3: just hit shazam and it tells me I wis shazaming

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Speaker 3: to work out people. Still it was big Jet playing

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Speaker 3: by Magus and Julia Steiner, and of course it was

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Speaker 3: you know, but it just makes you lazy. But it's

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Speaker 3: very cool that that identifies the song just like that.

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Speaker 5: And if you said, absolutely, that's totally changed the way

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Speaker 5: we find music as well, so you do identifying music

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Speaker 5: and find music through like algorithms and different ways of searching.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's yeah, completely changed the game. And as

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Speaker 5: I said before, social media as well, you know, songs

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Speaker 5: getting big off social media or coming back into playlists

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Speaker 5: and very very different from the days of just the

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Speaker 5: top one hundred chart.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, the only thing I feel that some people

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Speaker 1: miss out on and I do mean a lot of

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Speaker 1: younger people might buy songs or stream songs or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and they're not getting albums anymore. And you know, don't

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Speaker 1: still get albums because quite often the best tracks that

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Speaker 1: you're going to get from that person is you know,

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Speaker 1: on the album and not the song that you heard

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Speaker 1: on the radio.

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Speaker 4: And then started streaming and everything. So yeah, never turn

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Speaker 4: you back on the album.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, I think the because albums, you know, coming

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Speaker 5: in with vinyls, there was the city of the album

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Speaker 5: for a lifelis saving it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 5: And then I think about like, you know, buying a

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Speaker 5: single song off iTunes and that coming back in of

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Speaker 5: the song being the like the viable thing is the

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Speaker 5: song rather than the album where you find album on

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Speaker 5: CD and vinyl and now we buy a song or

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Speaker 5: listen to a certain song, But pre vinyl, you know,

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Speaker 5: when you could only keep on recorded sound a couple

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Speaker 5: of minutes worth of audio, the song was supreme and

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Speaker 5: pre recorded sound. The music itself like sheet music, and

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Speaker 5: the song itself was also ray and supreme. So it

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Speaker 5: does seem to ebb and flow a.

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Speaker 1: Little albums, It does a little circle of things.

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Speaker 4: Yes, all that's good.

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Speaker 3: The digital world means we miss out on that romantic

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Speaker 3: thing if you're not going and buying vinyl or CDs

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Speaker 3: or whatever it might be.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the record store experience of the el days.

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Speaker 2: But that's just the way it is.

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Speaker 5: And I think that's why we've seeing the resurgence in vinyl.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely want that exacperience and that whole tangible thing. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be too main camps these days when it

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Speaker 1: comes to music streaming services Spotify or Apple Music. Is

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Speaker 1: there a reason to be in one or the other?

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Speaker 1: Are they just is it just a matter of you know,

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Speaker 1: which one you ended up going with? Is one better

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Speaker 1: than the other for any reason?

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Speaker 5: Or I think it's a matter of which one someone

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Speaker 5: will share a family account with you.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Well, we've come to the end of our

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Speaker 1: history of sound. I'm sure that there's going to this

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Speaker 1: will be ever evolving. Joel will be all over it

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Speaker 1: because she is a curator of the National Film and

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Speaker 1: Sound Archive of Australia. And your website is n f

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Speaker 1: s A, isn't it dot com? And there's lots and

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Speaker 1: lots to learn there. It's really interesting stuff. Joe, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us this morning.

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Speaker 3: No Race, it's been great your expertise and all of

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Speaker 3: the people who've helped us this week from National Film

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Speaker 3: and Sound Archive.

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Speaker 1: Something that you couldn't have done twenty years ago. You'll

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Speaker 1: be able to hear this whole thing on our podcasts.

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Speaker 2: You will.

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Speaker 4: Digitalization.

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Speaker 2: I think we've swum away to the end of the stream.

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Speaker 4: Tell you something really embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: Are you ready? I'm always up for you to embarrass.

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Speaker 4: This I had.

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Speaker 1: I was paying for Apple streaming for a while before

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Speaker 1: I even realized that ben I could get any song

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Speaker 1: I wanted at any time.

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Speaker 4: For it on my iTunes I have.

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Speaker 1: I went through a big thing of burning all of

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Speaker 1: my CDs onto my midunes out and storing it in

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Speaker 1: there and so I could take it in my pocket

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Speaker 1: because that was the best.

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Speaker 4: Thing that I thought it ever happened.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: And then I didn't realize that I was because I

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Speaker 1: have Apple on the TV, so I didn't realize I

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Speaker 1: was actually paying for an Apple you know, subscription without

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Speaker 1: realizing that that meant that I could go on there

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Speaker 1: and just ask for any song I wanted at any time.

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Speaker 4: I was still just playing everything from my own.

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Speaker 2: Collection that was recorded in there.

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Speaker 4: That is called being old.

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Speaker 2: That's hilarious too.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm hip to the whole scene and I'm

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Speaker 1: streaming like a streaming things.

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Speaker 2: You just said hip and then you click.

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Speaker 4: Alve downy.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for confessing though. That was That was good. That

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Speaker 2: was big of you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to the National Film Sound in Australia for

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Speaker 1: all their help. This week has been absolutely illuminated.

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Speaker 3: The group said, I said I was

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Speaker 4: Hip to the whole scene, and then I went he

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Speaker 4: did it sounded quite good