1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: We did, indeed, just catch up with the Department of 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Education CEO Susan Barden and spoke a little bit more 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: about the Northern Territory Will Education Department's response to this 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: kinetic sand and the issues rock schools will certainly in 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: the ACT and learning centers right around the country up 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: to seventy ACT schools and preschools having to close due 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: to those sand products. Now, John Batty joins me on 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: the phone to discuss the broader implications of this issue. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: And John is the managing director of EDP Consultants. Good 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: morning to you. 11 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: John, Morning Katie. 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. Now, John, how 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: concerning is it that this sand contained these chemicals which 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,959 Speaker 1: are considered naturally occurring will a naturally occurring form of asbestos? 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: Yes, so I guess we need to understand that the 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: sand has identified some trace amounts of these naturally occurring expenses, 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: including tremlin and to the amount of asbesis really is 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: quite low within this stand and generally we need to 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: understand that speesis really becomes a risk when it becomes airborne. 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: This material generally and its nature seems to clump together 21 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: and doesn't readily create dust so I'd say generally the 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: risk to people using this product is pretty low and 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: something that we really don't need to get too concerned about. Obviously, 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: it's something that shouldn't be in the community. We've prohibited 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: the use of asbestos many many years ago, now, you know, 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: over twenty years ago now, and these products really should 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: be stopped at the border. But generally, this material in 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: its nature won't really release fibers and the risk in 29 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: my opinion, is very low. Yeah. 30 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: Right, Well, that is I think pleasing to hear, no 31 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: doubt for a lot of you know, parents listening to 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: the show this morning, because a lot of people have 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: sort of been left wondering how could this even eventuate 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: or how did it even happen. 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a difficult one to consider. I guess 36 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: we need to understand that asbestos is naturally occurring. We 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: know that we find it in themes in the ground. 38 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 2: We do have it in themes throughout Australia as well. 39 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: So I did envisage that this product really has come 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: about through the mining process. It may have been a 41 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: contaminant within the sand that was mined originally, and then 42 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: during the processing it remained within the product itself, and 43 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: that's why we're finding such low amounts within the sand 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: and ultimately that's how it's ended up coming into the country. 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: John, Any idea why you know? I guess depending on 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: which location you're in around Australia, why the response may 47 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: have been a bit different sort of from location to location. 48 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, in the Act, we've got a 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: number of schools that have been closed here in the 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: Northern Territory. We just heard from the CEO of the 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: Department of Education and she talked us through, you know, 52 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: the processes that they're going through in terms of, you know, 53 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: the cleaning of those classrooms, etc. And the checking of 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: the air quality. But we've really had three early learning 55 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: centers that have been closed, but haven't had to have 56 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: those closures to the same extent as the Act. Any 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: idea why that might be. 58 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: It's hard to tell, and I'm not involved in the 59 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: process around the risk assessment, but I think we have 60 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: probably had a bit more time to consider. I guess 61 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 2: the facts and the risks are so sound with this material. 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: They've obviously done. I guess in the Act they've closed 63 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: down the schools, they've done a significant amount of air 64 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: monitoring to understand what the actual or potential risk is 65 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: to the children within those areas, how readily the fibers 66 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: will release from this sand material, and then potentially using 67 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: that information there they've been able to gauge that the 68 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: risk is low to people and maybe we don't need 69 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: to go ahead and I guess go to the extremes 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: of shutting down schools and doing that mass clean up 71 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: that they're doing the act. 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anything like this sort of happen 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: in the past and in the years that you've been 74 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: working in this space, I. 75 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: Think because asbestis is still used widely in countries such 76 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 2: as China and India, and we do have situations where 77 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: products do contain a products that contain asbestos do come 78 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: into the country. I know we had a situation where 79 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: crayons were brought into Australia previously that contained asbestos. I 80 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: know there's been some recent cases where some fire doors 81 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 2: have had some aspesis within them and not really picked 82 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: up until after the fact. So it is a challenge 83 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: that we need to deal with. And obviously customs have 84 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: got their hands full dealing with a lot of products 85 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: that are coming into Australia. Not only are they looking 86 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: for asbestos, but there are others they're looking for other 87 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: listen substances as well, and I guess you know, they 88 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 2: can be stretched in terms of the material that they 89 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: are looking at and the material that they are to 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: it testing. Our biggest challenge here in Australia is we 91 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: don't manufacture a lot of material. We import a lot 92 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: of these materials and because they are using a specials 93 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: and it's not prohibited in places such as China and India, 94 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: there is a risk that you know, you know, without 95 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: any planning, without any testing, it may still come into 96 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: the country. 97 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, do we as parents need to be 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: a bit more careful about what we're maybe buying from 99 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: you know, I guess because some people sort of you know, 100 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: buying things from some of those cheaper websites as well 101 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: and then getting it shipped from places like China. 102 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I guess, you know, there are things 103 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: that need to be considered. You know, we've got our 104 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: regulations and our controls in place in Australia, We've got 105 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: our Australian standards that we need to comply with a 106 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: lot of these countries don't need to comply with Australian standards. 107 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: It takes my mind back to a situation where toys 108 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: were coming into Australia that we're code it in lead 109 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: pain and obviously that you know, we can't have children 110 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: being exposed to lead pain. It affects their development. It 111 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: is a It is a difficult one and I know 112 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: we're all you know, we're coming up to the Christmas period. 113 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: Everyone loves a cheap deal online and it's the easiest 114 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: thing to get to and you know, if we can 115 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: get something cheaper from from overseas, it might be an 116 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: interest that we will go towards. But maybe we should 117 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: consider buying something locally. 118 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 1: Good advice, I reckon, John, really appreciate your time this morning. 119 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your insight. 120 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 2: No worries, Katie, have a great day you too, Thanks 121 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: so much.