Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OAHs.
Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the tenth of April. I'm Sam, I'm Billy. Yesterday the
Speaker 2: National Arts Council, called Creative Australia, presented its landmark report
Speaker 2: into the state of Australia's music festivals and unfortunately it's
Speaker 2: not good news. Over a third of Australian music festivals
Speaker 2: lost money last year, losing almost eight hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: on average. The cost of putting on a festival has
Speaker 2: rapidly increased, it's harder for festivals to get insurance, and
Speaker 2: people are buying tickets closer to the time of the
Speaker 2: festival now. Creative Australia said impacts from the pandemic have
Speaker 2: seen many popular festivals canceled or downscaled, resulting in multimillion
Speaker 2: dollar losses for organizers and promoters. In today's podcast, we're
Speaker 2: going to talk to Mitch Wilson. They're the managing director
Speaker 2: of the Australian Festivals Association and was at the launch
Speaker 2: of the report yesterday. Before we get to that chat, Billy,
Speaker 2: what is making headlines this morning?
Speaker 1: The Northern Territory government has extended a curfew for young
Speaker 1: people in Alice Springs by an additional six days. It
Speaker 1: comes after an initial two week curfew for under eighteen
Speaker 1: year olds in the region was announced last month and
Speaker 1: mid concerns about growing violence and unrest. It will now
Speaker 1: continue until six am Tuesday, sixteenth of April, meaning the
Speaker 1: curfew will cover the entire school holiday period. And we
Speaker 1: have done a podcast on that, so if you want
Speaker 1: more information about that, we will link it in the
Speaker 1: show notes.
Speaker 2: A new report has found job seeker payments are not
Speaker 2: high enough to cover living expenses. Data from Anglicare Australia
Speaker 2: shows low income households are worst affected by inflation. It
Speaker 2: said more than seventy percent of spending by the bottom
Speaker 2: fifth of income earners in twenty five twenty three was
Speaker 2: on essential items. Anglicare said Senselink payments were far too low.
Speaker 1: Last month was the world's hottest March on record. According
Speaker 1: to the European Union's Climate Change Service. It marks the
Speaker 1: tenth consecutive month of record breaking temperatures. March was one
Speaker 1: point sixty eight degrees warmer than estimated pre industrial temperatures.
Speaker 1: The global average temperature for the twelve months leading up
Speaker 1: to March was also at its highest on record.
Speaker 2: And today's good news, Beyonce has become the first black
Speaker 2: woman to take the number one spot in the country
Speaker 2: charts for her album Cowboy Krter. It's also her eighth
Speaker 2: album to top the overall Billboard two hundred album charts.
Speaker 2: The singer has also sold the most vinyls of her
Speaker 2: career so far, with sixty two thousand Cowboy Carter vinyl
Speaker 2: copies sold in the first week of the album's release.
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Speaker 3: and now back to the deep dive.
Speaker 1: Sam. Before we get into this chat, I think it
Speaker 1: would be helpful for the listeners to know that you
Speaker 1: absolutely love music festivals. You go to one probably once
Speaker 1: a month.
Speaker 2: Why is that, Billy? I absolutely love them and they've
Speaker 2: been some of the most special times for me over
Speaker 2: the years. You know, I've discovered new artists, I've discovered
Speaker 2: new parts of Australia. It's the best and I know
Speaker 2: a lot of young people feel the same way. But
Speaker 2: there's a lot of really serious issues facing the music
Speaker 2: festival industry and that's why this chat with Mitch was
Speaker 2: so important to have on the podcast. The new report
Speaker 2: came out yesterday, I broke it down with Mitch. Here's
Speaker 2: that chat, Mitch. Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS.
Speaker 2: The report's just come out. Tell me where you are,
Speaker 2: how you're feeling, and what your days look like today.
Speaker 4: I am in Sydney. It's extremely wet and indicative of
Speaker 4: sort of I think how a number of people in
Speaker 4: the music industry have been feeling a bit disheveled, a
Speaker 4: bit all over the place. But yeah, I think the
Speaker 4: report is extremely helpful for us to be able to
Speaker 4: quantify map this music festival sector in the country because
Speaker 4: we haven't had a national piece of research before. We've
Speaker 4: been advocating for this and managed to get it in
Speaker 4: the National Cultural Policy, which we were super excited to see,
Speaker 4: and I think it's getting released at the most optimal time.
Speaker 4: So we see it as the basis for even more
Speaker 4: research into music festivals across the country, and super excited
Speaker 4: to have it out there and to hear everyone's reactions
Speaker 4: and for you to all see it.
Speaker 2: I want to start with a bit of a philosophical
Speaker 2: question for you. Why are music festivals so important?
Speaker 4: Oh? I think music festivals are hugely important. Everyone loves
Speaker 4: hanging out with their mates, going away together, you know,
Speaker 4: get out of town, switch off, particularly these days, and
Speaker 4: enjoy some music. I think, you know, out of all
Speaker 4: the art forms that people engage with, music as the highest,
Speaker 4: so it's unsurprising that festivals are such a draw card
Speaker 4: for people in the past.
Speaker 2: We're going to get to this a bit later in
Speaker 2: the discussion, but I kind of feel like it's the
Speaker 2: right place for this question. Is it important enough to
Speaker 2: a society that governments should be supporting them financially?
Speaker 4: I think government definitely needs to be at the table
Speaker 4: at the moment. We've seen such huge impacts into music
Speaker 4: festivals these past few years. It's not just the pandemic
Speaker 4: and lockdowns. It was prior to that. We saw the
Speaker 4: Black Summer bushfires cancel a number of events. We've seen
Speaker 4: le Nina and wet weather impact events. Since then, we
Speaker 4: just haven't had the opportunity to really fully recover from
Speaker 4: those ongoing impacts. And the economic impact and the benefits
Speaker 4: to communities, particularly in regional areas across the country are huge.
Speaker 4: And for similar industries that have those impacts, whether it's
Speaker 4: you know, mining, agriculture, that have as great a sort
Speaker 4: of economic impacts in some of these regional communities. For
Speaker 4: some reason, we're just not seen on the same you
Speaker 4: know pedestal and previously festivals and cross contemporary music haven't
Speaker 4: really gone to government for support. It's only in these
Speaker 4: past few years that we've needed that support. And why
Speaker 4: we're asking for actually just time limited, short term funding
Speaker 4: to weather the immediate challenges which have been largely out
Speaker 4: of our control since the pandemic and you know, supply
Speaker 4: chain issues.
Speaker 2: And those details were abundantly clear in yesterday's release of
Speaker 2: a report from Creative Australia. It's said that of the
Speaker 2: five hundred and thirty five music festivals in Australia in
Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three, thirty five percent of them
Speaker 2: lost money. Is something happening on that supply side that's
Speaker 2: outweighing because people are still going to music festivals, right,
Speaker 2: so are they just becoming more expensive to produce?
Speaker 4: Some of our festivals have had their highest attendance numbers
Speaker 4: on record, but they're making less and less money. And
Speaker 4: we've seen examples of some of our members events selling
Speaker 4: out the last six months and they didn't make any
Speaker 4: money because they're just covering costs. We've seen costs up
Speaker 4: thirty to forty percent on every single line item. When
Speaker 4: it comes to insurance, it's even greater than that.
Speaker 2: I just want to jump in here because that's a
Speaker 2: little bit of kind of confusing industry speak, So let's
Speaker 2: go through that together. Basically, what Minch is talking about
Speaker 2: there is how much it costs music festivals to take
Speaker 2: out an insurance policy which they can then activate in
Speaker 2: case something goes wrong. And as we've seen an increase
Speaker 2: in the number of festivals affected by wild weather or
Speaker 2: by some economic variable factors, the cost of getting that
Speaker 2: insurance has gone up, and it's gone up in some
Speaker 2: cases to such a high extent that it actually is
Speaker 2: becoming harder for music festivals to pay for the policy
Speaker 2: before they have the revenue from ticket sales.
Speaker 4: And ticket prices just can't be raised at the same
Speaker 4: rate to meet those costs, So the margins are super tight,
Speaker 4: and you're seeing those examples of nearly having to sell
Speaker 4: out just to break either.
Speaker 2: So why do you think then we're getting to a
Speaker 2: point where people don't want to spend more and more
Speaker 2: money on the experience because I think there's an understanding
Speaker 2: that the supply costs are going up. Are we hitting
Speaker 2: that ceiling of young people are just not going to
Speaker 2: fork out another one hundred dollars on top of the
Speaker 2: ticket price.
Speaker 4: Well, like, we haven't seen ticket prices go up as
Speaker 4: much as the costs have gone up. I just want
Speaker 4: to make that clear up front. But yeah, I think
Speaker 4: cost of living pressures are hitting everyone and renting increases,
Speaker 4: particularly amongst young people. I think the data out of
Speaker 4: the report that we find most concerning is that the
Speaker 4: eighteen to twenty four year old age group is not
Speaker 4: the largest demographic when it comes to ticket purchases for
Speaker 4: music vestvals anymore. They consistently have been, and we're now
Speaker 4: seeing them drop down below the twenty five to twenty
Speaker 4: nine year old age group, and that has a huge
Speaker 4: flow on effect to that ongoing platline of an audience
Speaker 4: and also locking in music lovers from you know, when
Speaker 4: they're sort of finishing school and able to go to
Speaker 4: live music, to be live music and festival attendees for
Speaker 4: decades after that.
Speaker 2: Is there an argument to be made though, that just
Speaker 2: the habits and trends amongst that eighteen to twenty four
Speaker 2: year old cohort have changed and moved away from festivals
Speaker 2: and towards the Taylor Swifts, the fread Again's the kind
Speaker 2: of megators.
Speaker 4: Well, I think from an artist's perspective, we're seeing a
Speaker 4: lot of those big name headline artists see that a
Speaker 4: stadium show or arena show just for themselves is more
Speaker 4: of a financial incentive and that's having a flow on
Speaker 4: effect of festival lineups. And I think, yeah, we don't
Speaker 4: fully understand the changes in what young people are looking
Speaker 4: for from their life music experiences at the moment. I
Speaker 4: think there's a lot of impacts from COVID times lockdown.
Speaker 4: A lot of you know, eighteen to twenty four year
Speaker 4: olds we're talking about finishing high school, starting UNI in
Speaker 4: lockdown on Zoom, not going to these sort of formative
Speaker 4: cultural experiences, going away with your mates for a weekend,
Speaker 4: and I think the costs are also having an impact
Speaker 4: where anecdotally hearing that as much as Taylor's with costs,
Speaker 4: it's actually, you know, less of a cost than some
Speaker 4: of the multi day music festivals, but you're getting one
Speaker 4: artist or two with the support rather than in some
Speaker 4: cases hundreds.
Speaker 2: So you're representing festivals when you go and have these
Speaker 2: discussions with government, and that's both on the state and
Speaker 2: a federal level. How's government receiving the requests of your industry.
Speaker 4: Well, we had a big meeting with the federal government yesterday,
Speaker 4: so Creative Australia, the Arts Agency convened the meeting of
Speaker 4: festival promoters as well as US as the Peak Body.
Speaker 4: So I think the news of the cancelations and with
Speaker 4: this research coming out and the findings within that, there
Speaker 4: has been an understanding of the pressures. I think given
Speaker 4: the range of things we've discussed today, they're also trying
Speaker 4: to grapple with what the challenges are and what their
Speaker 4: role might be. I think what was quite forcefully put
Speaker 4: by a number of festival organizers yesterday was that the
Speaker 4: federal government has a role to play in the insurance industry.
Speaker 4: The Federal Government needs to be at the table when
Speaker 4: we're having discussions around changes to the insurance offerings to festivals,
Speaker 4: because there's essentially bordering on market collabse premiums are through
Speaker 4: the roof and it really keeps having a flow on
Speaker 4: impact to an organizer deciding whether or not, you know,
Speaker 4: if they don't get that huge ticket buying when they
Speaker 4: go on sale, whether they hold off and sort of
Speaker 4: take the risk of seeing whether they'll sell those tickets
Speaker 4: before the event, or do they sort of pull the
Speaker 4: pin early because they know they might be up for
Speaker 4: in some places tens of millions of dollars in losses
Speaker 4: and if they don't have insurance, that obviously has a
Speaker 4: big impact on their decision making.
Speaker 2: One more question from me, Mitch, you're in these rooms,
Speaker 2: many would argue you're talking on behalf of young Australians
Speaker 2: here trying to establish a future for the festival industry.
Speaker 2: What points are you finding resonate the best with government
Speaker 2: and with let's say, you know, it's not a nice
Speaker 2: way to say, but let's say people outside the target
Speaker 2: demographic of going to a festival. Is it the point
Speaker 2: about how important these are economically for regional communities? For
Speaker 2: industry or is it what we started this discussion with
Speaker 2: about how important festivals are to the cultural fabric.
Speaker 4: Both factors work for governments, and I think the combination
Speaker 4: of the two is literally what is convincing people. It's
Speaker 4: not just that you know, their formative experience for young
Speaker 4: people to enjoy time with their mates and you know
Speaker 4: their identity building they were for me. I think the
Speaker 4: cancelations have crystallized their potential loss of the benefits of
Speaker 4: the economic impacts on regional communities. I think it has
Speaker 4: really sort of focused the minds of government. You know,
Speaker 4: the report released yesterday outlines five hundred and thirty five
Speaker 4: festivals across the country. It's a huge spread of events
Speaker 4: across the country that if we start to see more cancelations,
Speaker 4: it's going to have a huge one on effect. And
Speaker 4: I guess the other thing is it's not just about
Speaker 4: the audience of going to festivals, and it's not just
Speaker 4: about our members the people putting on the events. We're
Speaker 4: seeing Australian artists struggle to make it in the globalized
Speaker 4: English speaking music market. They're fighting against you know, really
Speaker 4: powerful algorithms on streaming services and nobody sort of quite
Speaker 4: understood how to really get their break, and the importance
Speaker 4: of both radio and festivals for Australian artists is even
Speaker 4: larger because of that difficulty in making their break in
Speaker 4: this sort of globalized music market. So I think we've
Speaker 4: seen a number of examples of Australian artists talking about,
Speaker 4: you know, the impact that getting on a stage enabled
Speaker 4: them to develop their audience here and actually give them,
Speaker 4: you know, a following that then they were able to
Speaker 4: use to get a record deal or to be able
Speaker 4: to tour overseas. And I think that's the piece that
Speaker 4: we in the music industry like, We really see it
Speaker 4: as an ecosystem and if you see festivals falling over
Speaker 4: it could have a huge flow on impact to the
Speaker 4: broader Australian music industry and artists.
Speaker 2: Mitche Wilson, thanks so much for joining us in the
Speaker 2: Daily Odds today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to today's podcast of
Speaker 1: the Daily Os. I thought that was an absolutely fascinating chat.
Speaker 1: If you would like to hear more from us, you
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Speaker 1: thank you so much and we will be back tomorrow.
Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Speaker 2: Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl country.
Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
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Speaker 1: past and present.