1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Gooday, this is The Happy Family's podcast. Imagine this. The 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: email comes through mid flight your son can't go on 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: holidays during school term. That is the email that Sarah Stevenson, 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: cookbook author and influencer with one point two million followers 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Sarah's Underscore Day, received a couple of 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: months back, but it was a little bit too late. 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Sarah was already on board that plane with her six 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: year old son Fox, ready to fly to Fiji and 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: have fun. The excitement, the pat bags. You can imagine Fox, 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: I know, probably holding onto his tablet for the flight. 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: The email from Fox's New South Wales primary school arrives. 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: Sarah's response, she takes to Instagram as anyone with one 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 1: point two million followers probably would, and vents to all 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: those people about having to show flight receipts to the 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: principle like she's filing an insurance claim. She said, and 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: I quote, he's only missing five days of school. Yes, 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: I want him to learn how to read and write 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: and be in a classroom, but I haven't pulled him 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: out of school for a month. So here's the kicker. 20 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: Her followers overwhelmingly supported her comments like restricting when kids 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: can and can't go on a holiday's ridiculous and real 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: life experiences are way better than missing a week of 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: ABC's story was on news dot Com Dot a You 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: a few weeks back, as well as on our socials, 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: and it got us thinking, do we or don't we 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: take our kids out of school for a family holiday? 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: Is the bureaucracy right? Does every day at school count 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: or a parents within their rights to take a holiday 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: when it works for them. Life is pretty crazy after all. 30 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: So that's our conversation on today's podcast Stay with Us. Hello, 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Families podcast. So glad you're here. 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for choosing to listen with us. We are Justin 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: and Kylie Coulson with real parenting solutions apparently every day 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: on Australia's most downloaded Arny podcast. Kylie, you're ready for 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: this debate. You're ready to step into the hot seat play. 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: I have some really big opinions about this, but I 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: think it's worth looking at what the rules around this 38 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: are because they actually differ from state to state. In 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: New South Wales, travel is not underlined not a justified absence. 40 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: Schools must record it as unjustified period. Okay, Queensland and 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: Catholic systems consider holiday travel to be reasonable. 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: Huh. 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: In Victoria you need principal approval and a student learning 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: absence plan. 45 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: Okay, because apparently this is a week I've read two 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: require strategic planning. Very good. Okay, so I. 47 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: Think this is really tricky. There's lots of paperwork. Parents 48 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: feel like they're back at school themselves, having to justify 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: their actions. Yeah, and get special permission. But my guess 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: is that school leaders and teachers alike don't really like 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: it either. They're in four seen policies sometimes that they 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: didn't create and may not even agree with. 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: Yes, some might, but yes, yep, yep, fair enough. 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: And this is a system and that varies by post code. 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: It's inconsistent, right. 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So one state's one thing another and we've obviously 57 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: we've only done the Eastern states. Other states are part 58 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: of Australia. We recognize that. But we'll be here all day. 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: We go through all the rules everywhere. You know what 60 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: I think when I hear this, though, this is what 61 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone talks about. You ask for permission, 62 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: you get to know from the school. My guess is 63 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: that most parents are probably going to go anyway, Like 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: you've paid for the airfares. Oh, you've got everything booked 65 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: and planned, you're still going to go on the holiday. 66 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think that it stops lots 67 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: of families from spending time together. 68 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we differ. Although I've never done a study, 69 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: and maybe you're right. Maybe a lot of people just say, no, 70 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to have my child marketers having unauthorized absences. Okay. 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean I'm the kind of person who'd say, I 72 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: know you don't want me to go, but I'm going anyway. 73 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that surely, because I think there's 74 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: a level of privilege and probably a level of arrogance 75 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: there as well, but we can cover that off shortly. 76 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: So I think it's important to make the case that 77 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: the Education Department would make why shouldn't kids miss school? 78 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: So, like I'm on the fence, there are some really 79 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: strong reasons that kids should be at school, and we 80 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: have to be. 81 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 2: But again, we're not talking about taking them out for 82 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: a month or. 83 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: Six months week. 84 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: We're talking about taking them out for a week so 85 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: they can spend time with families. 86 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: So I have a lot of sympathy. I have a 87 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: lot of sympathy for this position. I don't always agree 88 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: with it. Like I said, I'm getting splinters in my 89 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: bum from sitting on the fence, But I think that 90 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: I can have that desire to take the kids out 91 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: whenever I want because our kids have usually done pretty 92 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: well at school. I want to emphasize this isn't just 93 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: about Fox or whoever. It is missing some finger painting. 94 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: In terms of stats, we've gone from seventy five percent 95 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: of students attending ninety percent of school days in twenty 96 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: nineteen to just sixty percent attending ninety percent of school 97 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: days twenty twenty four. That is a massive drop. 98 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: And I'm going to suggest that that has nothing to 99 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: do with family holidays and a lot more to do 100 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: with anxiety and depression. 101 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: I reckon that's a COVID one hundred percent potentially. Nevertheless, 102 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: we've got more school in attendance than ever before, dropping 103 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: from seventy five percent to sixty percent across that five 104 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: year period. With that many kids attending nine percent of school, 105 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: it's a big drop. Research also backs it up. So 106 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago there was a big study 107 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: that was done and I've seen this in various other 108 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: smaller studies as well. Missing even one day of school, 109 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: whether it's per week or per fortnite or per term, 110 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: the research evidence shows that it does measurably affect academic outcomes. 111 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: Now we're talking about on average. I just need to 112 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: emphasize that is on average. But the bodies that promote this, 113 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: they're not just making it up. The data is there. 114 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: And if academic performance is our number one gauge for 115 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 2: success in life, then. 116 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: Great, But is it okay difficult? 117 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: Is that literally all we're striving for? 118 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: The other thing that I was going to say, and 119 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: this is something where I'm going to really take the 120 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: side of the teachers for just a moment. I've spoken 121 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: to principles about this and teachers about it as well, 122 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: and what they'll often say is, it's not just that 123 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: the kid's going to have a holiday, or they're going 124 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: to have a sick day, or that they're going to 125 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: have that family event, or they're going to have the 126 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: mental health day or the birthday treat or whatever it is. 127 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: So they have a day of school. It's kind of 128 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: death by a thousand cuts for a classroom community, for 129 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: the continuity that's happening in the classroom because if you're 130 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: a teacher, you try to teach material, but you've got 131 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: these You've got kids away every day, and so you're 132 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: constantly having to teach kids who miss something, and it's 133 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: a new child every week, and so there's all this 134 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: back and forth. It's really hard to get your system 135 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: running well in the classroom when you have to keep 136 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: on going back and going over material and that sort 137 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: of thing. And the last point that I would make 138 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: is that, well. 139 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: That just sounds a bit like family life. 140 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: If you ask me, you're sounding very unsympathetic. 141 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: I am not very sympathetic. 142 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: Schools have to draw the line somewhere as well. And 143 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: I just wonder when does school become optional? If everybody's 144 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: taking holiday whenever they want. It just makes things difficult 145 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: when you've got a systemized system, right, and that's what 146 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: we've got. We've got a standardized system that requires it. Now, 147 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I completely agree with it, but 148 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: these are the arguments that can be made from the 149 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: school's perspective, and I think that we should at least 150 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: have some compassionate sympathy for the teachers that are trying 151 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: to juggle it and recognize that this is a it's 152 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a tricky quandary. 153 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: Okay, so you've got enough sympathy for both of us, right, 154 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: so we've given the Education department, we've played devil's advocate 155 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: for them. Be really great. If you could tell me 156 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: then why parents have an argument for taking their kids 157 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: away when it suits them. Yeah, okay, for me, it's 158 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: actually about costs and family priorities. 159 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: Right, So, well for us, because we've been through this. 160 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: Yes, so we've got six children. We've actually had to 161 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: create a family tradition where we take one child away 162 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: at a time. 163 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: Once they're sixteen, because we actually. 164 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: Could never have afforded to take all six of them away. 165 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: I know some people say, well that's your fault, but 166 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: like when you have six kids, you do want to 167 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: be able to have a family holiday from time to time, 168 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: and it's expensive. 169 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: And I know lots of families that never go on 170 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: a holiday because they can't afford to do it in 171 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: the school holidays because everything is like double the price. 172 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: Well, school holiday accommodation can triple depending on where you're 173 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 1: going and whether it's peak season or off peak season. 174 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: Our flight price is definitely double working families should be 175 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: able to afford to have a family holiday. But the 176 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: reality is, I think that's a real challenge. And you 177 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: and I with our kids, we've spent years visiting family 178 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: in a stay both to see family but also to 179 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: say on. 180 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: A couch, sleeping on the floor. Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm 181 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: sueezing into one bedroom. 182 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: We still do. In fact, we've got a family holiday 183 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: coming up in a couple of weeks because we want 184 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: to get away. But it's like, oh my goodness, can 185 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: we really afford another family holiday where we can if 186 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: we sleep at at grandma's house. Grandma's house. Yeah, there 187 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: are family priorities, so aging grandparents sometimes it's not a luxury, 188 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: that's a necessity. Maybe there's deaths and marriages and those 189 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: kinds of things. I think it's also worth highlighting the 190 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: early year's reality. I don't think that a five year 191 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: old is missing anything that's particularly crucial. Kids are usually 192 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: going to learn more from travel than just sitting through 193 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: another a phonic session or another basic math session. And 194 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: when I look at what Sarah did, she pulled her 195 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: young child out so they could go and have a 196 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: family holiday in Fiji, for a bit. I think it's 197 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: okay whether it's family or relaxation, recreation. I also think 198 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: that there's a bit of hypocrisy from the education department 199 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: because they say that we can't waste a single day, 200 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: but last few days of term every term. 201 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: Not only the last few days, often it's the last 202 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: few weeks. 203 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: Well, as you move up to Christmas, it definitely is 204 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks at least pizza parties, movie marathons. 205 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that every day matters, so it depends 206 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: on the day, and a lot of schools are scheduling 207 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: pupil free days, which they have the right to do, 208 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: but then they won't approve the student and family travel. 209 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean hardline attendants argument assumes that all 210 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: kids are struggling, that all families are a little bit flaky, 211 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: and school's always the highest value activity. You kind of 212 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: touched on that before. Some kids are thriving, some families 213 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: are intentional, and I again privileged position, but I put 214 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: us in that basket, and sometimes a week exploring a 215 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: new culture beats another week of a standardized curriculum. So 216 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: what do we do? We talked too long about this 217 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: already but we will talk it through after the break 218 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: in terms of making the decision that's right for your child, 219 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the family, and taking into consideration all of those other factors. 220 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: That's coming up next. Okay, Kylie, Family holidays during school 221 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: term not a black and white issue, although the way 222 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: you're talking, maybe it's a bit more black and white 223 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: than I was suggesting. 224 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting it as black and white. I think 225 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: that most people have a level of intelligence isn't the 226 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: right word, but a level of awareness to recognize that 227 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 2: you're not going to pull your year twelve student out 228 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: right in the middle of exam prep or learning brand 229 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 2: new content that is going to impact their grades. 230 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is about making intelligent judgment calls. And for 231 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: the most part, I mean, every parent wants their kids 232 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: to do well. They want their children that most parents 233 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: value education. Not all, but most parents value education and 234 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: are willing to encourage their children to do a great 235 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: job at school. 236 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: So when we've made some really big holiday decisions, we 237 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: have spoken with the school and we've said we're looking 238 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: at doing this and this is actually quite a big 239 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: deal for our family, and we're wondering if this is 240 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: going to have an impact on their learning, and teachers 241 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: have sometimes come back to us and said that that's 242 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: a really bad week. You can't do it then, But 243 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: they've also suggested that you've got a window. If you 244 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 2: kind of went from this date to this date, we 245 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: could probably we can work with it. 246 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: So that's something that I didn't have down in my 247 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: notes as I was thinking about this, and that is 248 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: just when you work with schools. Most of them, most educators, 249 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: most principles, are pretty reasonable about it, and most see 250 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: the value in, oh, this will be a culturally relevant 251 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: or valuable activity. There's worth in you doing this as 252 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: a family, and we get that sometimes it can be tricky. 253 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: We've never had a problem with this. That's why I 254 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it as well, because Sarah's experience 255 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: seems to be so strong. 256 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: Especially for a six year old. 257 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been rejected. Your request for leave has been 258 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: rejected for a six year old to do that. So 259 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: let's tap into a couple of things that I did 260 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: jot down Other than working with the school and being 261 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: productive and trying to make it work together. You've already 262 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: touched on this, but I want to be a little 263 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: bit clearer. I think timing matters. I don't think that 264 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: as a general rule it's useful to mess with the 265 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: first few weeks when kids are settling in. 266 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: Agreed. 267 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: I know several people who think that's the best time 268 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: to go because that's the cheapest. I would disagree. I 269 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: think the kids need stability, they need consistency, They need 270 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: to in the teacher needs to get to know them. 271 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: Missing those first couple of weeks of school, especially at 272 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: the start of the year. 273 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: Is a bit and cementing your place in the social circle. 274 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: It's a really big deal. 275 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: You've already touched on avoiding assessment periods and major projects. 276 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: I think that's important. Fair game though, is end of term. Yeah, 277 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: not a lot of learning going on there, Like fair enough. 278 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 2: Get out of there, I think so age. 279 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: I think age matters a lot here, So if you've 280 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: got young kids, you can probably get away with a 281 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: lot more play based learning to probably find it. 282 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: I know you're saying that, but I actually don't think 283 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: that's as black and white either. Really, I think for 284 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: our younger kids, when they're in you know, consistent schooling, 285 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: they actually need the consistency of schooling. It's really like 286 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:51,479 Speaker 2: those formative years they actually need routine structure and consistency 287 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: around everything. So I think it really depends on the kids. 288 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: I reckon they're going to adapt pretty well. Yeah, fair call. 289 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: It depends on the child. So you've got to know 290 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: your child. If they're a high achiever, if they're going 291 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: to read books on the plane. 292 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: And I don't even think it's about that either though. Well, 293 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: I think it's more about, you know, are they a 294 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 2: kid that's really excited to be at school or are 295 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: they the kid that's constantly, you know, struggling to kind 296 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: of say goodbye each day. You're going to go back 297 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: to square one when you come back. 298 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess if you've got a really anxious kid 299 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: who's going to use any excuse to avoid school, it 300 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: might be a bit trickier. Although then again, I'm kind 301 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: of inclined to say, if've got a child who's struggling 302 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: that much, maybe having the break is going to give 303 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: them the rejuvenation and the refreshment that they need. I mean, 304 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: we're all over the place on this, seriously, I am. Anyway, 305 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: let's move to a big picture take home message. Submit 306 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: the paperwork. Depending on the school, it's probably going to 307 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: be denied communicate your reasoning respectfully. I think that's really important. 308 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: Work with the school in a collaborative way wherever you can. 309 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: What's the worst thing that's going to happen. 310 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: It's going to get marked unauthorized, and you're going going 311 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: to go on holidays anyway, and then you're going to 312 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: come back with a whole lot of photos and stories, 313 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: and the kids are going to be able to talk 314 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: about it, and you're going to be able to say, Yeah, 315 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: we got that time together. Will remember that for the 316 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: rest of our lives. 317 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: Did you have any employer look at your attendance record? 318 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: No? 319 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: No, Sometimes I think we get our niggas tied up 320 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: in twists for no reason at all. 321 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the bigger picture is this, We're 322 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: not talking about chronic absenteism. We're not talking about families 323 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: who don't value education. We're saying, let's get families who 324 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: are making thoughtful, occasional decisions to prioritize a different kind 325 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: of learning, a different kind of connection. Like, the real 326 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: question isn't whether or not term time holidays should be allowed. 327 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I think the real question is whether or not we 328 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: trust parents to make nuanced decisions about their own children's education, 329 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: or whether we've decided that schools no better than families 330 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: what the family needs. I think I've just made up 331 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: my mind, Like that's that's my take. That's my take. 332 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: What's your take? Are we raising a generation that thinks 333 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: rules of suggestions? Or are we finally recognizing that education 334 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: happens everywhere? Let us know at Facebook and Instagram. We've 335 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: got some social posts going up today to prompt the 336 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: question and get some feedback. Or you can email us 337 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: or send us a voice note to podcasts at happy 338 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: families dot com dot au. Just remembered, Kylie, I have 339 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a confession. And November, last couple of weeks of the 340 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: school year, we're taking the kids away from my fiftieth 341 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: Should I write that letter? 342 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: Do you know how many hoops we had to jump 343 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: through to just get everybody on that plane? 344 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: Or we're going. We're going. I don't care what they say, 345 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: We're going. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin 346 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: Rowland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides additional support in terms 347 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: of research, admin and more. If you would like more 348 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: information about making your family happier, or just to join 349 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: in the conversation, check us out on our socials at 350 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram, or visit happyfamilies dot com dot au