WEBVTT - Will betting bans help with problem gambling?

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty second of August. I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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<v Speaker 2>Ozzie spend more on online gambling per person than any

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<v Speaker 2>other country in the world.

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<v Speaker 3>What we see is an enormous number of Australians who

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<v Speaker 3>are impacted by gambling.

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<v Speaker 2>Farm Now, the federal government has launched a new initiative

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<v Speaker 2>to help people to ban themselves from online gambling. It's

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<v Speaker 2>called Betstock and we're going to explain what it is

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<v Speaker 2>and whether or not it's likely to work in today's

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<v Speaker 2>deep dive. But first am some news from Victoria.

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<v Speaker 4>That's right, Australia's largest coal mine, which is in Victoria,

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<v Speaker 4>will close in twenty thirty five. The Victorian government and

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<v Speaker 4>agl have agreed on a twelve year notice period for

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<v Speaker 4>the closure of the loy Yang Power Station. The site

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<v Speaker 4>will begin transitioning workers and local community away from coal

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<v Speaker 4>mining as Victoria moves to renewables.

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<v Speaker 2>Westpac has posted a profit of one point eight billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>The bank said that a resilient quarter was to thank

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<v Speaker 2>for the success amidst ongoing inflationary pressures increasing its expenses.

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<v Speaker 4>A state of emergency has been declared in parts of

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<v Speaker 4>California as tropical Storm Hillary makes landfall. It's the state's

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<v Speaker 4>first tropical storm in eighty four years. US President Joe

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<v Speaker 4>Biden has ordered federal assistance to support impacted communities.

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<v Speaker 2>And with the World Cup now over, we are really

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<v Speaker 2>scraping the bottom of the barrel to keep bringing you

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<v Speaker 2>Matilda's good news. But the good news is that a

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<v Speaker 2>rescued platypus and a Sydney zoo has been named Matilda,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is of course in honor of the Aussie

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<v Speaker 2>history making World Cup efforts. The platypus was four months

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<v Speaker 2>old when she was placed in Toongazoo's care back in

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<v Speaker 2>April after a difficult start to life. Matilda's health is

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<v Speaker 2>said to be going from strength to strength. Ozzie's will

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<v Speaker 2>have the option to ban themselves from online betting under

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<v Speaker 2>a new register that's been launched by the federal government

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<v Speaker 2>this week. The register is called bet stop and it'll

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<v Speaker 2>give people the option to basically ban themselves from online

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<v Speaker 2>gambling from anywhere between three months to life. To talk

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<v Speaker 2>about how this will all work and how effective it

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<v Speaker 2>will be, I spoke to the CEO of the Alliance

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<v Speaker 2>for Gambling Reform, Carol Bennett. Carol, thanks so much for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us on the podcast today. Before we jump into anything,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love you to just explain what actually is betstop

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<v Speaker 2>and how will it work in practice.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Betstop is the new national self exclusion scheme for

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<v Speaker 3>gambling online gambling. In practice, what it means is that

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<v Speaker 3>people can go on and register online and they will

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<v Speaker 3>then be able to exclude themselves from all opening new accounts,

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<v Speaker 3>all bets, all promotions and marketing, and that can be

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<v Speaker 3>for anywhere from three months or up to a lifetime,

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<v Speaker 3>depending on what the individual chooses.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the thing that comes to me every time

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<v Speaker 2>I hear about self exclusion registers is that it does

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<v Speaker 2>take some level of self awareness and that with some

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<v Speaker 2>problem gamblers. Perhaps they don't have that level of self awareness.

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<v Speaker 2>So who is this trying to target. How does it

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<v Speaker 2>help if you perhaps don't realize that there is an

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<v Speaker 2>issue there.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, look, it's for anybody who feels that they're gambling

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<v Speaker 3>is out of control, or that they don't have the

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<v Speaker 3>ability to service their gambling debt. So it can be

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<v Speaker 3>for any reason that anybody feels that they no longer

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<v Speaker 3>want to either be promoted to by gambling ads, or

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<v Speaker 3>they no longer want to run the risk that they

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<v Speaker 3>might be spending money they don't have on gambling. So

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<v Speaker 3>it can be for any reason and for anyone. And

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I guess the other element of that is

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<v Speaker 3>that we need to make sure people are aware of

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<v Speaker 3>this system, because if they're not aware of it, they

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<v Speaker 3>can't self exclude. And I think that's a really important

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<v Speaker 3>part of the implementation of this new system is to

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<v Speaker 3>ensure that people are aware and are able to actually

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<v Speaker 3>use the system that it works for them.

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<v Speaker 2>And this has been something that gambling reform advocates have

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<v Speaker 2>been calling for a fairly long time. Why do you

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<v Speaker 2>think it's taken so long to have something like this

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<v Speaker 2>in place on a national level.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Look, it's a good question. It has taken a

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<v Speaker 3>very long time, eight years to get this implemented and

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of work from a lot of people. Look,

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<v Speaker 3>I think there has been a lack of leadership when

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<v Speaker 3>it comes to gambling reform. Australians are the biggest losers

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<v Speaker 3>in the world when it comes to online gambling, twenty

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<v Speaker 3>percent ahead of any other country in the world. So

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<v Speaker 3>you know, there's this blind spot that gambling is thing

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<v Speaker 3>that people just choose to do in their spare time,

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<v Speaker 3>and that you know that it's entertainment and fun. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>in fact, what we see is an enormous number of

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<v Speaker 3>Australians who are impacted by gambling harm. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>there's been a lack of leadership, a lack of commitment

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<v Speaker 3>to addressing the issue. We know that gambling does generate

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<v Speaker 3>significant revenue and that that in itself can be a

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<v Speaker 3>barrier to governments committing to doing more when it comes

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<v Speaker 3>to reducing the harms that go hand in hand with gambling.

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<v Speaker 3>So we want to see that change, and we want

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<v Speaker 3>to see real leadership from the government, and we want

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<v Speaker 3>to see a national strategy that it does enable people

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<v Speaker 3>to address their gambling harm, whether it be this self

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<v Speaker 3>exclusion scheme or other initiatives banning credit, banning advertisements, even

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<v Speaker 3>extending this scheme to venues, clubs and pubs and other

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<v Speaker 3>places where people might gamble.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to get to those interventions in a but

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<v Speaker 2>first just to go back to something that you said before,

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, we hear the figures about how widespread

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<v Speaker 2>of an issue gambling is in Australia, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think I've ever actually interrogated why is it such an

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<v Speaker 2>issue here? Like, what is distinct about our country that

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<v Speaker 2>we have such an issue compared to other countries around

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<v Speaker 2>the world.

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<v Speaker 3>Great question. Look, I think the thing is that we

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<v Speaker 3>have allowed this to happen. We haven't had strong robust

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<v Speaker 3>regulation when it comes to gambling like other countries in

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<v Speaker 3>the world, and there hasn't been that leadership and commitment

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<v Speaker 3>to addressing the issues, so we've seen it get out

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<v Speaker 3>of control. We're now at a point where, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we've recently had a national inquiry into online gambling and

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<v Speaker 3>it's harms. That report sets out thirty one recommendations to

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<v Speaker 3>the federal government. It's quite clear from that report that

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<v Speaker 3>there is a significant issue in Australia that needs to

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<v Speaker 3>be addressed and we're playing catch up. And we're playing

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<v Speaker 3>catch up because we really just haven't put in place

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<v Speaker 3>the things that we needed to have in place in

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<v Speaker 3>order to stop this from getting out of control. So,

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<v Speaker 3>for instance, you know, we're seeing gambling ads day and

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<v Speaker 3>night on our screens at times when children are watching,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, it just has not been addressed and

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<v Speaker 3>we're now having to do that. And so this sort

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<v Speaker 3>of scheme is just long overdue and desperately needs to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have seen something like this on a state

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<v Speaker 2>and territory level. Just last month, a fine was issued

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<v Speaker 2>to a betting company for allowing a customer who had

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<v Speaker 2>self excluded to open a new account in the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 2>So how often do you think these types of things

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<v Speaker 2>happen and how can we make sure that the same

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<v Speaker 2>thing won't happen now with this new national intervention.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, there have been many instances in which people

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<v Speaker 3>have self excluded, whether it be from state run self

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<v Speaker 3>exclusion schemes or whether it be from gambling company schemes,

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<v Speaker 3>and they have then been targeted and provided with more

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<v Speaker 3>inducements to gamble more promotions, more marketing, and that has

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<v Speaker 3>been you know a real problem for many people. There

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<v Speaker 3>haven't been really good enforcement of fines applied when this occurs.

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<v Speaker 3>So even in the instances where we saw this happening

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<v Speaker 3>multiple times in the Northern Territory, so you know, there

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<v Speaker 3>were instances in which people who were on the self

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<v Speaker 3>exclusion Register were targeted by gambling companies with inducements and

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<v Speaker 3>it happened multiple times. The problem is the fines were

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<v Speaker 3>only three four hundred dollars per time, so you know

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<v Speaker 3>that's not a significant enough des incentive for companies to

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<v Speaker 3>ensure that doesn't happen. A national scheme, it's a national database.

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<v Speaker 3>It covers all online and telephone bedding wagering operators in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>It's all in one place. You know, the federal government

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<v Speaker 3>will be rec responsible for it through AGMA and we

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<v Speaker 3>will certainly be letting them know if we see any

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<v Speaker 3>cause for concern. We will be monitoring and I'm sure

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<v Speaker 3>that there will be opportunities to have a say about

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<v Speaker 3>how this scheme works and ensuring that it does work

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<v Speaker 3>effectively for the people who need it.

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<v Speaker 2>And so do you see this, I mean you've spoken

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<v Speaker 2>about a lack of leadership in the past. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>see this as a turning point? Is that how substantial

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<v Speaker 2>it is? Like, do we as a country ever get

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<v Speaker 2>to a place where we don't have as big as

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<v Speaker 2>an issue or as we currently do, or is it,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, baked into the fabric of our society.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's not baked into the fabric of our society.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty certain of that. I think every other country

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<v Speaker 3>thinks that that's the case for them too. But in fact,

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<v Speaker 3>what it indicates is that as a society we just

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<v Speaker 3>haven't dealt with the issue. But what we are seeing

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<v Speaker 3>is a very clear community shift in attitudes when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to gambling, you know. And I think that's playing

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<v Speaker 3>out in terms of you know, our state and federal

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<v Speaker 3>politicians now needing to respond to that concern and seeing

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<v Speaker 3>some really significant failures when it comes to regulation. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think it will change. I think it hasn't been

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<v Speaker 3>an easy process to bring decision makers to the table

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<v Speaker 3>to you know, get the change to happen that's needed.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that because of the gambling lobby. Is that the

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<v Speaker 2>strength of you know, that industry as a whole.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, partly, and the fact that they have huge and

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<v Speaker 3>deep pockets. And you know, often state governments we know

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<v Speaker 3>are very reliant on the revenue they get from gambling.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, the federal government to some extent also

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<v Speaker 3>very much influenced by the gambling industry donations to political parties.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they do have a place at the table,

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<v Speaker 3>they shouldn't or at least if they do have one,

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<v Speaker 3>that should be with a range of other stakeholders who

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<v Speaker 3>can count balance that influence. But a lot needs to

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<v Speaker 3>be done to address.

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<v Speaker 2>This, and I mean thinking about the full spectrum of

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<v Speaker 2>I guess interventions that are available to a government. This

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<v Speaker 2>is just one of them, an exclusion registry, and again

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<v Speaker 2>that relies on the individual identifying that as something that

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<v Speaker 2>they need to seek help for. What are the other

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<v Speaker 2>things that you hope to see you in the coming years,

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<v Speaker 2>at least under this government in terms of trying to

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<v Speaker 2>bring down the number of gamblers we might have in

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<v Speaker 2>this country.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the government needs to accept this as a public

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<v Speaker 3>health problem because it is. And effectively, if you accept

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<v Speaker 3>the gambling like alcohol, tobacco, driving in cars without seat belts,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's a harmful product. If you accept that premise,

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<v Speaker 3>and then you go on to say well it's time

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<v Speaker 3>for us to show some leadership. Well, then it's logical

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<v Speaker 3>that you'd have some kind of national strategy or response.

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<v Speaker 3>The National Online Inquiry has set out what needs to happen,

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<v Speaker 3>the roadmap for what we need to do. And it's

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<v Speaker 3>not just one thing. It's not just banning gambling ads

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<v Speaker 3>or just banning credit or just bringing in a self

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<v Speaker 3>exclusion register. It's everything from prevention awareness, you know, making

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<v Speaker 3>sure that people are educated about what gambling means in

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<v Speaker 3>Australia and how they can manage any potential issues. Treatment

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<v Speaker 3>services are woefully inadequate in this area. Research, We need

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<v Speaker 3>more research that's independent of the gambling industry. So there's

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<v Speaker 3>a whole spectrum of things that have to happen to

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<v Speaker 3>ensure that we're addressing the levels of harm we're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia and we need to see national leadership on

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<v Speaker 3>this issue. And it's across the board. It's not just

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's not just a financial issue or a

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<v Speaker 3>regulatory issue. It's something that requires a public health approach.

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<v Speaker 4>We need help. You can reach out to the National

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<v Speaker 4>Gambling Hotline on one eight hundred eight five eight five eight.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for listening to the podcast today. We would really

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<v Speaker 4>love it if you could leave a review on whatever

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<v Speaker 4>app you're using right now. We'll be back again tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 4>Until then, have a great date.