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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty second of August. I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: Ozzie spend more on online gambling per person than any

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Speaker 2: other country in the world.

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Speaker 3: What we see is an enormous number of Australians who

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Speaker 3: are impacted by gambling.

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Speaker 2: Farm Now, the federal government has launched a new initiative

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Speaker 2: to help people to ban themselves from online gambling. It's

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Speaker 2: called Betstock and we're going to explain what it is

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Speaker 2: and whether or not it's likely to work in today's

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Speaker 2: deep dive. But first am some news from Victoria.

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Speaker 4: That's right, Australia's largest coal mine, which is in Victoria,

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Speaker 4: will close in twenty thirty five. The Victorian government and

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Speaker 4: agl have agreed on a twelve year notice period for

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Speaker 4: the closure of the loy Yang Power Station. The site

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Speaker 4: will begin transitioning workers and local community away from coal

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Speaker 4: mining as Victoria moves to renewables.

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Speaker 2: Westpac has posted a profit of one point eight billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: The bank said that a resilient quarter was to thank

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Speaker 2: for the success amidst ongoing inflationary pressures increasing its expenses.

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Speaker 4: A state of emergency has been declared in parts of

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Speaker 4: California as tropical Storm Hillary makes landfall. It's the state's

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Speaker 4: first tropical storm in eighty four years. US President Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden has ordered federal assistance to support impacted communities.

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Speaker 2: And with the World Cup now over, we are really

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Speaker 2: scraping the bottom of the barrel to keep bringing you

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Speaker 2: Matilda's good news. But the good news is that a

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Speaker 2: rescued platypus and a Sydney zoo has been named Matilda,

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Speaker 2: and that is of course in honor of the Aussie

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Speaker 2: history making World Cup efforts. The platypus was four months

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Speaker 2: old when she was placed in Toongazoo's care back in

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Speaker 2: April after a difficult start to life. Matilda's health is

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Speaker 2: said to be going from strength to strength. Ozzie's will

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Speaker 2: have the option to ban themselves from online betting under

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Speaker 2: a new register that's been launched by the federal government

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Speaker 2: this week. The register is called bet stop and it'll

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Speaker 2: give people the option to basically ban themselves from online

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Speaker 2: gambling from anywhere between three months to life. To talk

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Speaker 2: about how this will all work and how effective it

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Speaker 2: will be, I spoke to the CEO of the Alliance

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Speaker 2: for Gambling Reform, Carol Bennett. Carol, thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us on the podcast today. Before we jump into anything,

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Speaker 2: I'd love you to just explain what actually is betstop

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Speaker 2: and how will it work in practice.

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Speaker 3: Well. Betstop is the new national self exclusion scheme for

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Speaker 3: gambling online gambling. In practice, what it means is that

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Speaker 3: people can go on and register online and they will

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Speaker 3: then be able to exclude themselves from all opening new accounts,

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Speaker 3: all bets, all promotions and marketing, and that can be

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Speaker 3: for anywhere from three months or up to a lifetime,

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Speaker 3: depending on what the individual chooses.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the thing that comes to me every time

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Speaker 2: I hear about self exclusion registers is that it does

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Speaker 2: take some level of self awareness and that with some

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Speaker 2: problem gamblers. Perhaps they don't have that level of self awareness.

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Speaker 2: So who is this trying to target. How does it

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Speaker 2: help if you perhaps don't realize that there is an

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Speaker 2: issue there.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, it's for anybody who feels that they're gambling

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Speaker 3: is out of control, or that they don't have the

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Speaker 3: ability to service their gambling debt. So it can be

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Speaker 3: for any reason that anybody feels that they no longer

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Speaker 3: want to either be promoted to by gambling ads, or

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Speaker 3: they no longer want to run the risk that they

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Speaker 3: might be spending money they don't have on gambling. So

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Speaker 3: it can be for any reason and for anyone. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I guess the other element of that is

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Speaker 3: that we need to make sure people are aware of

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Speaker 3: this system, because if they're not aware of it, they

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Speaker 3: can't self exclude. And I think that's a really important

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Speaker 3: part of the implementation of this new system is to

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Speaker 3: ensure that people are aware and are able to actually

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Speaker 3: use the system that it works for them.

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Speaker 2: And this has been something that gambling reform advocates have

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Speaker 2: been calling for a fairly long time. Why do you

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Speaker 2: think it's taken so long to have something like this

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Speaker 2: in place on a national level.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, it's a good question. It has taken a

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Speaker 3: very long time, eight years to get this implemented and

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Speaker 3: a lot of work from a lot of people. Look,

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Speaker 3: I think there has been a lack of leadership when

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Speaker 3: it comes to gambling reform. Australians are the biggest losers

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Speaker 3: in the world when it comes to online gambling, twenty

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Speaker 3: percent ahead of any other country in the world. So

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Speaker 3: you know, there's this blind spot that gambling is thing

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Speaker 3: that people just choose to do in their spare time,

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Speaker 3: and that you know that it's entertainment and fun. Well,

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Speaker 3: in fact, what we see is an enormous number of

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Speaker 3: Australians who are impacted by gambling harm. So I think

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Speaker 3: there's been a lack of leadership, a lack of commitment

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Speaker 3: to addressing the issue. We know that gambling does generate

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Speaker 3: significant revenue and that that in itself can be a

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Speaker 3: barrier to governments committing to doing more when it comes

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Speaker 3: to reducing the harms that go hand in hand with gambling.

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Speaker 3: So we want to see that change, and we want

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Speaker 3: to see real leadership from the government, and we want

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Speaker 3: to see a national strategy that it does enable people

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Speaker 3: to address their gambling harm, whether it be this self

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Speaker 3: exclusion scheme or other initiatives banning credit, banning advertisements, even

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Speaker 3: extending this scheme to venues, clubs and pubs and other

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Speaker 3: places where people might gamble.

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Speaker 2: I want to get to those interventions in a but

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Speaker 2: first just to go back to something that you said before,

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Speaker 2: And I mean, we hear the figures about how widespread

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Speaker 2: of an issue gambling is in Australia, but I don't

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Speaker 2: think I've ever actually interrogated why is it such an

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Speaker 2: issue here? Like, what is distinct about our country that

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Speaker 2: we have such an issue compared to other countries around

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 3: Great question. Look, I think the thing is that we

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Speaker 3: have allowed this to happen. We haven't had strong robust

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Speaker 3: regulation when it comes to gambling like other countries in

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Speaker 3: the world, and there hasn't been that leadership and commitment

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Speaker 3: to addressing the issues, so we've seen it get out

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Speaker 3: of control. We're now at a point where, you know,

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Speaker 3: we've recently had a national inquiry into online gambling and

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Speaker 3: it's harms. That report sets out thirty one recommendations to

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Speaker 3: the federal government. It's quite clear from that report that

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Speaker 3: there is a significant issue in Australia that needs to

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Speaker 3: be addressed and we're playing catch up. And we're playing

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Speaker 3: catch up because we really just haven't put in place

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Speaker 3: the things that we needed to have in place in

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Speaker 3: order to stop this from getting out of control. So,

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Speaker 3: for instance, you know, we're seeing gambling ads day and

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Speaker 3: night on our screens at times when children are watching,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it just has not been addressed and

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Speaker 3: we're now having to do that. And so this sort

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Speaker 3: of scheme is just long overdue and desperately needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: And we have seen something like this on a state

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Speaker 2: and territory level. Just last month, a fine was issued

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Speaker 2: to a betting company for allowing a customer who had

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Speaker 2: self excluded to open a new account in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: So how often do you think these types of things

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Speaker 2: happen and how can we make sure that the same

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Speaker 2: thing won't happen now with this new national intervention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there have been many instances in which people

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Speaker 3: have self excluded, whether it be from state run self

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Speaker 3: exclusion schemes or whether it be from gambling company schemes,

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Speaker 3: and they have then been targeted and provided with more

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Speaker 3: inducements to gamble more promotions, more marketing, and that has

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Speaker 3: been you know a real problem for many people. There

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Speaker 3: haven't been really good enforcement of fines applied when this occurs.

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Speaker 3: So even in the instances where we saw this happening

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Speaker 3: multiple times in the Northern Territory, so you know, there

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Speaker 3: were instances in which people who were on the self

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Speaker 3: exclusion Register were targeted by gambling companies with inducements and

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Speaker 3: it happened multiple times. The problem is the fines were

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Speaker 3: only three four hundred dollars per time, so you know

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Speaker 3: that's not a significant enough des incentive for companies to

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Speaker 3: ensure that doesn't happen. A national scheme, it's a national database.

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Speaker 3: It covers all online and telephone bedding wagering operators in Australia.

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Speaker 3: It's all in one place. You know, the federal government

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Speaker 3: will be rec responsible for it through AGMA and we

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Speaker 3: will certainly be letting them know if we see any

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Speaker 3: cause for concern. We will be monitoring and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that there will be opportunities to have a say about

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Speaker 3: how this scheme works and ensuring that it does work

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Speaker 3: effectively for the people who need it.

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Speaker 2: And so do you see this, I mean you've spoken

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Speaker 2: about a lack of leadership in the past. Do you

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Speaker 2: see this as a turning point? Is that how substantial

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Speaker 2: it is? Like, do we as a country ever get

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Speaker 2: to a place where we don't have as big as

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Speaker 2: an issue or as we currently do, or is it,

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Speaker 2: you know, baked into the fabric of our society.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not baked into the fabric of our society.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty certain of that. I think every other country

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Speaker 3: thinks that that's the case for them too. But in fact,

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Speaker 3: what it indicates is that as a society we just

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Speaker 3: haven't dealt with the issue. But what we are seeing

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Speaker 3: is a very clear community shift in attitudes when it

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Speaker 3: comes to gambling, you know. And I think that's playing

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Speaker 3: out in terms of you know, our state and federal

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Speaker 3: politicians now needing to respond to that concern and seeing

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Speaker 3: some really significant failures when it comes to regulation. So

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Speaker 3: I think it will change. I think it hasn't been

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Speaker 3: an easy process to bring decision makers to the table

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Speaker 3: to you know, get the change to happen that's needed.

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Speaker 2: Is that because of the gambling lobby. Is that the

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Speaker 2: strength of you know, that industry as a whole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, partly, and the fact that they have huge and

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Speaker 3: deep pockets. And you know, often state governments we know

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Speaker 3: are very reliant on the revenue they get from gambling.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the federal government to some extent also

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Speaker 3: very much influenced by the gambling industry donations to political parties.

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Speaker 3: You know, they do have a place at the table,

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Speaker 3: they shouldn't or at least if they do have one,

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Speaker 3: that should be with a range of other stakeholders who

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Speaker 3: can count balance that influence. But a lot needs to

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Speaker 3: be done to address.

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Speaker 2: This, and I mean thinking about the full spectrum of

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Speaker 2: I guess interventions that are available to a government. This

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Speaker 2: is just one of them, an exclusion registry, and again

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Speaker 2: that relies on the individual identifying that as something that

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Speaker 2: they need to seek help for. What are the other

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Speaker 2: things that you hope to see you in the coming years,

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Speaker 2: at least under this government in terms of trying to

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Speaker 2: bring down the number of gamblers we might have in

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Speaker 2: this country.

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Speaker 3: Well, the government needs to accept this as a public

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Speaker 3: health problem because it is. And effectively, if you accept

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Speaker 3: the gambling like alcohol, tobacco, driving in cars without seat belts,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's a harmful product. If you accept that premise,

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Speaker 3: and then you go on to say well it's time

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Speaker 3: for us to show some leadership. Well, then it's logical

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Speaker 3: that you'd have some kind of national strategy or response.

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Speaker 3: The National Online Inquiry has set out what needs to happen,

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Speaker 3: the roadmap for what we need to do. And it's

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Speaker 3: not just one thing. It's not just banning gambling ads

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Speaker 3: or just banning credit or just bringing in a self

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Speaker 3: exclusion register. It's everything from prevention awareness, you know, making

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Speaker 3: sure that people are educated about what gambling means in

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Speaker 3: Australia and how they can manage any potential issues. Treatment

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Speaker 3: services are woefully inadequate in this area. Research, We need

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Speaker 3: more research that's independent of the gambling industry. So there's

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Speaker 3: a whole spectrum of things that have to happen to

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Speaker 3: ensure that we're addressing the levels of harm we're seeing

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Speaker 3: in Australia and we need to see national leadership on

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Speaker 3: this issue. And it's across the board. It's not just

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Speaker 3: you know, it's not just a financial issue or a

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Speaker 3: regulatory issue. It's something that requires a public health approach.

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Speaker 4: We need help. You can reach out to the National

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Speaker 4: Gambling Hotline on one eight hundred eight five eight five eight.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the podcast today. We would really

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Speaker 4: love it if you could leave a review on whatever

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Speaker 4: app you're using right now. We'll be back again tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: Until then, have a great date.