1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: For comprehensive political coverage impacting territorians. The only voice you 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: need is Katie will Fond three sixty remaining one hundred 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: percent and mix one oh four point nine. 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: Now, as we know, the introduction of a minimum flow 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: price for alcohol in the territory, well, it happened twenty eighteen, 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: I believe was exactly when we had it implemented here 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: in the territory. But what kind of impact has it had? Well, 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: joining us on the line right now is Peter Miller, 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: Professor of Violence, Prevention and Addiction Studies with Deacon University. 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Peter. Now, Peter, talk us through 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: the research and what it found. 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely so this is using our police not police, sorry, 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 3: government generated data around alcohol sales, the wholesale sales, and 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: what we found was particularly focusing on Darlin Palmerston, that 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: there was a percent reduction in the cast wine sales 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: specifically which you may or may not remember, but that's 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: why the government shows the wonder at thirty minuium price 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 3: rather than a higher price which they felt would affect 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 3: to be a sales as well, and there was a 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: fifty percent reduction statewide. Now, statewide, as you know, most 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 3: of the Oderstens as well. Know. 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 4: Statewide is more difficult to tell because we have the 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 4: palis or police officers in Gottle shops south of Darwen, so. 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: That's a much more difficult story to be able to tell. 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 3: But within Darwen Palmerston we could be confident that that 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: was the impact of the in the price. 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: And are people turning to other drinks than Peter if 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: they're not able to get their hands on that cheap 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: cask wine, are they going to something else? 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 3: Well, we didn't see any significant increases across the board. 31 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 3: I think the key bit is that very few people 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: actually use cask wine to begin with. It's a very 33 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: it's a very sort of niche product. Primarily, the very 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: cheap cask wine is only used by a tiny, tiny, 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: tiny proportion of the population to beginning with, and most 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 3: of them, unfortunately, they are problem drinkers. So it didn't 37 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: impact significantly on any other sales. There was no changes 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: that we could find in any other sales. We saw 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: the experience went up, but that was prior to the 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: introduction of the minute in their price. Now we can't 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: explain what that is. I've spoken to different people and 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: the pet theory around is that that's actually increased interest 43 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: in gin and particularly niche Gins. So we have no 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: explanation for that, but it occurred before the minute the 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 3: minute price anyway. 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: And Peter, I have just had a message come through 47 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: from one of our listeners. I'll just make sure I've 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: got it here up on the screen. It asks, and 49 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: this may sound ridiculous, but did the data look at 50 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: the increased consumption in mouthwash and other things like hand 51 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: sanitize it being actually being people having it to drink. 52 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, unfortunately data is controlled by the companies that 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: sell it. They refused to supply that information to us, 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: even though we were very nice and polite. But what 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: we certainly did was we looked at the hospital trends 56 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: and the other trends around those sorts of presentations. And 57 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: what we always see with this stuff, Okatie, with whatever 58 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: policy you put in place, that be a small group 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: of people who are in real trouble and we'll go 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: and see that stuff. Now, we saw that the government 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: engaged with a whole lot of retailers and things were 62 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: put behind the scenes. What we saw was that that 63 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: incidents fell off very quickly. So yes, people do you know, 64 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 3: people use drugs for reasons, and alcohol is the bigges 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: drugg in our society. So when you're desperate and an alcoholic, 66 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: you will go and try something else. Very quickly you'll 67 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: learn the consequences are too great and what happens reasonably. 68 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: Is that they just produced their consumption oft A bit 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: disappointing for you guys that the you know, those companies 70 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: and wouldn't sort of you know, wouldn't take part. Our guess, 71 00:03:59,320 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: isn't it? 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: Look it's pretty common unfortunately in our world, you know, unfortunately, 73 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: there's a lot of mantra of social responsibility and. 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: Very oh, we seem to have lost you there, Peter. 75 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: Hopefully we've got your back. 76 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: Are you there? 77 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:13,839 Speaker 3: Sorry? 78 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: Yes, m yeah, Peter. What other areas did the did 79 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: this focus on this research? 80 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: So this specific article is really is generated from a 81 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: report that was released last year. The key bit about 82 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: this article was that we've gone through the peer review 83 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: process and we've done statistical modeling to be able to 84 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: control for things like seasonality and for population rates, which 85 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: the raw data that is released originally in April last 86 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: year hadn't accounted. So that so that's that's the big 87 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: difference about this data. The project overall also looked at 88 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 3: all of the different levels of harm in terms of 89 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 3: hospital missions and police recorded offenses and things like and 90 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: again within Darwin we saw some of the promising the trends, 91 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: but that's the one year data. So we'd always been saying, 92 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: and academics like me, we love to have models that 93 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: are built on three or four years data. Now the 94 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: minimum of prices meant to be evaluated of three years. 95 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: But of course we've got COVID and job secret allowance 96 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 3: which has made, yeah, make our job incredibly challenged. 97 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: What kind of impact then, do you think that that 98 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 2: could actually have on the consumption of alcohol in the territory. 99 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. I think we've certainly seen different fluctuation. 100 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 3: The territory is very fortunate in terms of the impact 101 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: for you, is a lot smaller obviously than somewhere like Victoria. Yeah, 102 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: so we would expect to see some changes, but there 103 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: was also massive social movement throughout the territory at the 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 3: same time. To be able to unpack that story, it's 105 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: going to be almost impossible. But we will have a 106 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: look at all of the data and see if we 107 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: can pick up the trends. I think the job keeper 108 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 3: one has been a really challenging one for a range 109 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: of communities, and so being able to see at least 110 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: consider that it may well be that there's at a 111 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: certain point in research where you have to go, we 112 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 3: need to consider a longer period, just a chance to 113 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: set it down again. 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm going to be really 115 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 2: fascinated to see because anecdotally, we've sort of been getting told, 116 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: you know, by different people in the territory when it 117 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: comes to some of the issues that we sort of 118 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: have been experiencing with crime and other things that in 119 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 2: some ways, you know, there's been greater alcohol consumption due 120 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: to some of those bonus payments and things that were 121 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: obviously were handed out during the pandemic. And I'm really 122 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: fascinated to just find out more, I guess as time 123 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: goes on what impact that has had in the territory. 124 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and certainly myself and these other groups out 125 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: there as well, trying to understand how that playing out. 126 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: The problem is, of course, different communities will react in 127 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: different ways and has different levels of access. We've certainly 128 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: heard the anecdotes you've heard in terms of greater levels 129 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: of home. There's also really interesting historical phenomenon that after 130 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: a pandemic, societies generally celebrate and people go a bit 131 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: well crazy, but they celebrate a lot more. And you 132 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: see that because you know, even though your lockdown was short, 133 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: it's that it's that pressure and that tension, and I 134 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: think we're going to see that play out right across 135 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: Australia and the world. 136 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: In summary, with the with the research, what would you 137 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: say have been the biggest points or the biggest factors 138 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: that you found? 139 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: Okay, I think the key bit here is that it's 140 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: really been successful at targeting a problem product and saying 141 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: if we cut this out of it, if we try 142 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: to cut this out of the market, the price is 143 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,239 Speaker 3: a really effective way of doing that for a large 144 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: caution of problem drinkers. Didn't stop all drinking and do 145 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 3: anything like that. It's not prohibitionist, but it's targeted that 146 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: really problem product of dirt sheep dodgy wine in casks 147 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: that just makes it so portable and so problematic. So 148 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: I think that's the key message is that this has 149 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: been really successful targeting that without effecting the consumption and 150 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: prices everything. 151 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: Else, and do you think there's you know, the difficulty 152 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: in not being able to obtain the data on the 153 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: mouthwashes and familar recents and things like that. You know, 154 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: is that a tough thing as well, in the sense 155 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: that we're not really able to know whether some of 156 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: those real problem drinkers have turned to things that are 157 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: incredibly unhealthy for them. 158 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's not like they never did that in the 159 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: past anyway, I R. Yeah, And the key thing is 160 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: that we don't necessarily need that data because if they 161 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 3: drank it to that level that was problematic, they were 162 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: in the emergency department, they'll be in the emergency department 163 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 3: and you catch it there. And like I said, we 164 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 3: certainly saw a short burst of that, but the responses 165 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: that were put in place, both by retailers and the 166 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: government together seems to have controlled that quite well. And Peter, 167 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 3: are you We're pretty confident that it was a small 168 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 3: group and that it's gone away to a large degree, 169 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 3: but it never goes away and hire it. 170 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: And Peter, are you guys at Deacon looking at doing 171 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: any research into things like the BDR and that type 172 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: of thing as well, or as your focus more being 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: on the floor price? 174 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 3: Oh? No, absolutely. We have a pretty large project that's 175 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: funded by this DRAINA Research Council and other partners that's 176 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 3: looking at all of these that are working together and 177 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: how we can unpack them and what the differential impacts are. 178 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: And we're really keen to make sure that we understand 179 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: not only the quantitative, the big numbers, but also we're 180 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 3: going out, we're talking to people who have been on 181 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: the BDR and we're talking to their community members and 182 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 3: they say, so that we get the different pictures for 183 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: all of the different pieces of legislation and how they 184 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: work together. 185 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you what will be interested to catch 186 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: up with you again in the near future as some 187 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 2: of that other research concludes. 188 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 3: Thanks Kay you always the light of this good on you. 189 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: Peter, Thanks so much for your time today. That's Peter 190 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: Miller there, the Professor of Violence Prevention and Addiction Studies 191 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: at Deacon University. Interesting stuff.