1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Imagine if you could clear your calendar one day a week, 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: every single week. This was the advice co founder and 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: managing director of Thank You Daniel Flynn received from one 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: of his mentors. Initially, it sounded impossible. How do you 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: remove yourself from the day to day work of your 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: company a fifth of the time without everything falling apart? 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: And yet his mentor was doing it while running a 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: small empire. So Daniel decided to try it out and 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: he hasn't looked back. In this episode, Daniel shares some 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: of the prompts that guide his thinking on his blue 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: sky days and his methods for protecting his time when 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: more urgent concerns pop up. My name is doctor amanthe Immer. 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 14 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. On 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: today's My Favorite Tip episode, we go back to an 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: interview from the past and I pick out my favorite 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: tip from the interview. In today's show, I speak with 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: Thank You co founder Daniel Flynn about some of his 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: weekly rituals and rules. 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: There's some really interesting kind of rules in place that 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: and you know, very strong guidelines that have helped. And 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: one of those is every week I have a Blue 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: Sky Day. And that's just a name. I kind of 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: threw on having it one full day that's blocked out, 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: so there are no meetings. I don't check emails or slack, 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: I don't get I don't answer calls unless it's from 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: a particular team member and I know, like, okay, we've 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: really got a problem. I have to answer that call. 30 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: But that's actually about trying to create space to work 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: on Thank you, and not just in it. You know 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: some I mean, this is this is for me if 33 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: you want to know practically what it looks like. I 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: was inspired by a guy who he ran thirty companies 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, what the thirty company? I can't 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: barely do one? Like what are you talking about? And 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: I was trying to dig into, like how do you 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: do it? And here's a day a week completely free, 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: and for him, I'm like, what do you do? He's like, well, 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: I get on my jet ski and I go out 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: to this island. I was like, okay, okay, yeah, Like 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,839 Speaker 2: we'd all do that if we had a jet ski 43 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: and an island, we could go to, but he was 44 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: saying that for him, unless he has time to For him, 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: it was quite a personal day. Like it was quite 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: he had meditation and prayer and he had time of 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: like problem solving and ideation. And look, I thought it 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: sounded a little spooky but kind of cool. I ended 49 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: up climbing a mountain one day, took the day off. 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: In my head, it wasn't really work, and I climb 51 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: a mountain and it's like I felt like I unlocked 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: a secret that the shoe fits for me. So I 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: aim for a day a week now. In practice I 54 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: think fortnightly it's it's a full day, and on the 55 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 2: other week it can end up being about a half day. 56 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: I try and get out. So Upper Mountain for me, 57 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: outdoors works and I get out from the day to 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: day grind. And for me, this is a space to dream. 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: It's a space to write. Sometimes I like I write 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: out my thoughts and like dear diary, I quit, you know, 61 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: like I quit. I hate this thing. I just hate it. 62 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: I can't right. So it's not it's not beautiful. It's 63 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: a very raw. But then other days I'm like ah, 64 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: and an idea will drop and in that moment, it's 65 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: the idea is perfect, and then you come back to 66 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: the real world and it's not perfect, or actually come 67 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: back to the real world and with a bit of refinement, 68 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: it is that next breakthrough step forward. Sometimes I write 69 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: on those days and write content and you know, cat 70 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: up with a mental you know, either digitally or in person, 71 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: and try and get out of the bubble of thank 72 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: you and just get a different perspective. And these days 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: have become so valuable that when people are like, oh, 74 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: I don't know, but you're very busy, how do you 75 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: justify it? And now I'm like, well, yeah, it's hard 76 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: to explain, but once you've put in a rhythm and 77 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: a practice, it's easy to say, I don't think I 78 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: could do what I do without it, because everyone wants 79 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: to know, man, how do you cope with the challenges 80 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: of BAU and dream and think about the future. It's like, well, 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: I create time for it, and there's like a rule, 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: you know, and that's when I switch my headspace and 83 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: I find it really hard to do every week and 84 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: the night before I literally cancel nearly. I'm like, I 85 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 2: just know there's so much going on in the factory, 86 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: in this and supply chain. But it's become a commitment 87 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: and I have done seasons or I've skipped it. I'm 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: like that stuff, it's stupid, it doesn't work. And I've 89 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: seen myself as a leader kind of crumble. I think 90 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: for me, this is the shoe fits and everyone needs 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: to figure out what works for them. But there is 92 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: nothing like creative creating space. 93 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, so on these blue sky days, are there certain 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 3: questions that you've found helpful to pose to yourself or 95 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: certain processes that you go through, you know, aside from 96 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: trying to get out in nature and be removed from 97 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: digital distractions. 98 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: So look, I one of the things I do pretty 99 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: regularly is I pick up, I have god of this 100 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: master timeline, which is the big Rocks where are we heading? 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: And I look at it and I review it, and 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: I go, Okay, are we focusing on the right things? 103 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: You know? Are we on track? And I'm not. This 104 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: is not a super deep dive into the detail, but 105 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: you know, it is helpful to zoom because we're pretty ambitious. 106 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: So we've got a lot of big projects. But then, 107 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: like any ambitious project, you can you can almost die 108 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: or get lost in the detail. And so you know, 109 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: four days a week I'm in the detail, and sometimes 110 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: you know which way is up, and so I find 111 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: that really helpful to zoom out. I also find a 112 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 2: blank piece of paper very helpful. One of the activities 113 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: I did it this week is I wrote a list 114 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: between now and the end of the year for all 115 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,559 Speaker 2: the things I think are really important to be done. Now. 116 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: I've already got lists, I've got a sign a list, 117 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 2: I've got lists on lists. There are like, arguably, I 118 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: don't need to do this, it's already there. But I 119 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: find it personally, the blank piece of paper. It can 120 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: be at times quite daunting, but it's also full of opportunity. 121 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: And so by writing out that list, I sat back 122 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: and I would have spent an hour and it. You know, 123 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: if you looked at the list, that took me an hour. 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: It was the consideration, it was the wondering, it was 125 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: the is that really important? And by the end of 126 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: us really I really I thought, Wow, that's I get 127 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: that done. That's really that's really really remarkable, and I 128 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: think and then I compared it to the list of 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: everything we're doing in the detail. Later I was like, yep, cool, 130 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: I haven't missed anything, but I actually there's a whole 131 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff that I wonder is it really important? 132 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: And can we push that further down the track? And 133 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: I think in the early days I would never do this, 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: And so the result of that was an organization and 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: a team stressed out of their mind because everyone's trying 136 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: to achieve so many different things and everything's a priority, 137 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: and there wasn't enough work from me in prioritization of projects. 138 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: But there was a lot of vision and a lot 139 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: of here's where we're going, here's how exciting everything is, 140 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: and naturally everyone wanted to do that. And so, yeah, look, 141 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: that is something that I do, and then I encourage 142 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: leaders and managers to do it too in their own 143 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: projects that they're running the things that they're across, you know, 144 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: And so that's one of the practices. 145 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this extract with my chat with Daniel, 146 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the 147 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: full interview and you can find a link to that 148 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you're looking for more tips 149 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: to improve the way that you work. I write a 150 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've 151 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software and 152 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: gadgets that I'm loving through to interesting research findings. You 153 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: can sign up for that at Howiwork dot cod That's 154 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: how I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part 155 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: of your day with me by listening to How I Work. 156 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, 157 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy 158 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: to find. Just search for a math Imba. How I 159 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, 160 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: part of the Koln Nation. I am so grateful for 161 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: being able to work and live on this beautiful land, 162 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, 163 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium 164 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you 165 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes 166 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise.