WEBVTT - Inside Tiger King: Big Cats, Murder Plots, Polygamy & 'That Bitch' Carole 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.000 Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. Today. You're joined by journalists 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.720 Amy Kate and Sophie torber Now. On today's show, we 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.680 wanted to delve into the craziness that is the Netflix 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:21.200 documentary Tiger King. It's been called the most watchable show 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.760 of the year, and it somehow made this really strange 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.280 time when we're all in lockdown a little bit more bearable. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.400 It follows the big players in the cat world and 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.920 it is just the craziest thing I think I've ever 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.800 watched on TV. Yeah, when I flicked it on and 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.960 we were introduced by the producer saying that he was 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.680 originally going to film a doco about dangerous snakes in captivity, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.440 and then whilst he was filming the snakes, this guy 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.159 rolled up with a big cat in his car and 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.159 that kind of intrigued him to investigate further. I cannot 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.040 believe that he managed to get all of that footage 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.400 and that whole story. It is the most amazing thing 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.160 I have ever seen. The whole time, I'm thinking, how 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.080 did you get that? Well, A fair bit of the 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.400 vision seemed to be obtained by secretly filming people, and 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.560 also I suppose it was captured by a few of 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.800 the people who were working for the FBI at the time, 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.040 because we did see a few arguments that were captured, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.200 which I at the time I was like, how did 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.160 they get this? But they were obviously using it as 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.560 evidence in building up the case against him. Oh, I mean, 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.200 I still think the docco team was filming throughout that 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.440 whole five year period and obviously built up an incredible 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.200 trust between all of those three key players. Because I 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.240 just found it so interesting that they were obviously had 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.200 set up camp at Joe Exotic's zoo, and then they 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.640 were still able to infiltrate Carol and also the doc 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.200 Like it was just crazy. Now from having worked it 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.479 today tonight, I know all of the sort of trust 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.920 building that goes into convincing somebody to go on camera, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.600 but it's so funny. I feel like people in America 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.360 are completely different. Everyone just wants to be on TV, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.280 and especially someone like Joe Exotic. He seemed to get 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.400 such a thrill out of the fame that was attached 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.160 to not only his Instagram and Facebook following, but also 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.200 he seemed to just want to be on TV at 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.000 any opportunity. I feel like they could have just approached 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:08.200 him and said, hey, you want to be on this show, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.320 and he'd be like yeah, there was probably no trust 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.400 building that had to go on there. Well, that's essentially 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.160 what happened with the reality show that was being filmed. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.720 And then infamously all the tapes got burnt. Oh my god, 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.200 how funny was that It was so obvious that he 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.519 burnt his own office down. Oh and then the video 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.840 he filmed after I love. What I loved about the 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.800 doco was how they would show the uncut footage and 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.280 make them look like idiots, especially with the doc when 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:33.679 he was I think it was in one of the 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.160 first episodes and he was like, and how do you 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:37.800 want me to say this? And then he says it, 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.200 and it just made him look so stupid. About when 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.639 they had all the little cubs on the cat. Does 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.120 this look sexy? Should we have it like this? I'm sorry, 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.960 here's the most foul man. I can't believe that this 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.600 storyline about the polygamy happening at his zoo comes out. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.240 But it's just not even the tip of the iceberg, Like, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.880 it's not even that shocking compared to what else happened 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.320 in the doco. Talking about things that aren't even that shocking. 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.280 What about the scene whether that poor woman's arm was 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.960 ripped off, and in most documentaries that'd be such a 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.120 pivotal part, she did not seem phase at all. She 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.840 almost seemed proud of the fact. That's what was really 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.640 that was a sad element to the documentary, the fact 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.520 that the people who worked at his zoo were just 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.200 in such desperate situations that they would put up with 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.160 any sort of shit. For those who haven't watched it, 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.400 he would hire people off the streets or people who 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.880 were homeless or just out of jail because he thought 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.120 that he could control them and manipulate them to do 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.120 anything he wanted and work under such shit conditions, which 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.160 really was what happened. It was a real case of manipulation. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.240 I mean, what made me feel so sick was seeing 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.760 those poor people going through the leftover meats from Walmart, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.840 they expired meats and taking what's best and then feeding 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.400 it to the animals. It was disgusting. Should we get 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.400 into the three main players, though, so obviously the first 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.720 is Joe Exotic. The first episode painted him as quite 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.760 a complex character because we did hear about how his 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.760 father basically disowned him after he found out he was 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.240 gay and made him shake his hand to confirm that 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.360 he would not show up to his funeral when he died, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.920 which I felt it was very clever of the documentary 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.440 producers because it made you feel a little bit sorry 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.240 for him, and then his struggle with mental health and 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.279 his attempted suicide, and also the fact that his brother 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.280 passed away and the zoo was in memory of him 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.200 as well. Can I just say it reminded me a 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.520 lot of a Chris Lily documentary. I could just imagine. 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.800 The characters were so bizarre that I feel like they 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.560 would be you know, they're not even real characters. I 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.719 think you could put Yanna in there. Oh, definitely. One 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.600 thing I found particularly interesting about Joe was the fact 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.960 that as we touched on, he was so desperate to 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.560 be famous. And it's so ironic not to spoil the 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.880 ending for people, but he has become so famous out 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.000 of it, but is now in jail. Well, he's got 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.320 two hundred thousand followers on Instagram and only one photo. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.000 And Kate, you were telling me the other day you 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.400 looked and he had one hundred and twenty thousand followers 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.520 that's really weird because I on just about an hour 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.839 ago and he had heaps more photos than that, and 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.000 he had I think of around one hundred and ninety thousand 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.159 follow ups. Well, it's actually been revealed that he hasn't 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.200 been allowed to watch the documentary as he is in prison, 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.400 but a number of the prison guards have been coming 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.480 up to him and showing him memes on their phones, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.720 which I found quite funny. I would assume that he 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.960 would absolutely be loving the fame at the moment from 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.760 everything the TV producer was saying about him. He seemed 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.880 to get such a kick out of sitting in his throne. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.720 He would be loving life right now in prison. What 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.200 a few people are worried about is that because of 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.719 the popularity of the show, many people are calling for 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.720 his twenty two year sentence to be reduced, and that 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.159 he's even had Cardi b the rapper start a Go 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.040 Funny page to raise money for his legal fees. Well, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.080 what do you guys think about that? Because not to 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.279 ruin it, but I'm assuming people who've watched the series 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.159 will be listening to this. He is in jail now 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:53.480 for tempting to have Carol killed. Carol baskin of course. Well, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.640 it's also the accounts of animal abuse, and I think 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.640 those are the ones that were most shocking. Yeah, they 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.560 were seventeen counts of animal abuse, and even watching it 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.800 at home, I felt really confronted by the image of that. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.440 How many animals were in that cage, it was really revolting. Well, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.800 there was that horrific scene where one of the tigers 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.320 was giving birth and then you could see him just 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.960 outside the cage and he reached his hand in and 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.320 pulled one of the baby us it had a stick, 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.600 oh sorry, his stick, but then pulled it under the fence. 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.760 I was just horrified because shouldn't they be with their mother? 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:26.760 How can he be taking them away at such a 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.960 young age. The thing that I couldn't understand was his 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.640 lack of just a normal business model, the fact that 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.280 he couldn't work out that he kept breeding these really 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.080 expensive animals. He'd have to pay thirty grand a year 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.240 to keep them fed. Yeah, well, there were rumors that 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.719 he was euthanizing the cubs once they'd been cute and 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.120 everyone had their photos, which was another charge against the dock. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.679 So interestingly, when Joe was charged with twenty two years 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.320 in prison. He then started working with his enemy Peter 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.680 and started dishing the dirt on everyone else, and one 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:57.880 of those people was the dock, who seemed to be 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.560 out of it a little bit more. He was sort 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.479 of not in the big fight between Joe and Carol. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.280 But his most disgusting charge was that he was euthanizing 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.080 cubs and then cremating them, and that just made me 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.920 feel so sad. So Doc is the founder of the 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.880 Institute for Greatly Endangered and Rare Species, and he was 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.640 painted really as an ego maniac. He got all of 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.520 his employees to refer to him as some sort of 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.520 messiah or godlike figure. And what was revealed in the 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.360 documentary was he had so many women working for him 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.320 that he was in some sort of polygamist relationship with 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.920 Then what I found the most interesting was ex worker 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.760 they interviewed, who talked about the fact that she was 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.640 eighteen or nineteen years old when she started working for him, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.360 and that she was forced to get breast implants as 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.360 part of her work conditions. That sounds totally normal, doesn't it. 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.800 It was very cult like the fact that they kept 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:51.680 them in stables with cockroaches, everywhere and then manipulated. I 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.080 think manipulation seem to be a very much underlying theme 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.640 in this whole documentary. What I could understand is they 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.480 said that the people working for one hundred dollars a week, like, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.840 why wouldn't you just leave? And I suppose that shows 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.080 how few options they had. Well, the crazy theme of 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.680 the whole docco was the power from the animals. So 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.400 they were talking about how a lot of the players 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.960 would get either interest from girls or guys just because 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.600 they had that connection to the tigers, and everyone wanted 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.280 to be photographed. Yeah, and there was this real element 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.000 of fame seeking from the three of the main characters, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.480 even with the dog. It came out recently that he 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.480 actually appeared on stage with Britney Spears in her very 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.800 famous MTV performance where she had that yellow snake round 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.880 her neck. He was actually also is in a cage 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.440 with one of his tigers and he was on stage, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.839 so you could go and watch it back on YouTube. Yeah, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.040 but he was also photographed with a lot of political 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.679 figures as well, So it just shows that that manipulation 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.040 and that power struggle throughout. But Carol Baskin's also been 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.319 accused of having some form of connection to one of 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.640 Britney Spears' performance. She was photographed sitting next to her 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.959 in the crowd, and it's alleged that one of her 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.440 tigers was used on stage. Carol was so disturbing. They 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.520 really painted her as a nutcase. You the first episode 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.280 when she opened up her wardrobe with all that weird 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.440 leopard print out her court sketch cracked me up. They 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.960 just got her eyes so perfectly correct in it, because 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.160 her eyes were so creepy. They looked like tiger's eyes. 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.000 Is that what she was going for? Well, they're just 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.680 so far apart. She just looked really scary. And the 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.360 look that she gave the camera. I don't understand how 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.040 she agreed to talk about her husband. One thing that 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.320 Carol tried to set herself apart from the others is 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.560 that she claims to be an animal activist and used 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.240 her park to house big cats that had been rescued 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.079 from other places, which was really odd because then they 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.080 obviously showed that home vision of her how she started 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.040 out with her first cat. It just all seemed very hypocritical. Oh, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.080 it was so hypocritical. What was funny? Was it? Seemed 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.640 like the reverse. So she started out trying to sell 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.920 the cats, and then she claimed she was trying to 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.040 rescue them, whereas I think Joe started off trying to 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.120 rescue them and then went into capitalizing on them. Yeah. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.240 Do you guys think that Joe's heart was in the 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 right place at the start and maybe the fame changed 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.840 his motivation? What I think when you do look into 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.760 his background and all of the traumas he had in life, 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.040 I feel like perhaps he was in the forefront trying 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.640 to do the right thing and did have a love 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.360 for the animals initially. I actually think differently. I can 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.560 see how Joe was a figure people would warm too, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.280 but I think he was using the cats like every 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.079 other figure did in that movie, for his own selfish 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.120 gain and the fact. I mean there was a heartbreaking 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.920 scene towards the end of the doco when the two 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.560 chimpanzees in the cage were finally allowed to go to 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:39.640 a sanctuary and they hugged for the first time in 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.880 ten years, and I think that was very indicative of 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.120 how the animals were treated. They were treated as commodities 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.920 to enhance the status of each of those figures with 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.240 Joe being a massive part of that. It was a 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.080 very sad scene, but I had to laugh just the 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.560 way he was explaining it. Do I feel bad that 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.520 they were in that cage? Yeah? I feel bad. Well, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.200 Moving back to Carolles, one of the biggest plots to 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.880 come into the documentary was the whole murder disappearance of 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.880 her husband don What did you guys make of it? 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.240 She did it, no, no questions, even though Ja Simpson's 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.160 come out and said he thinks she did it. I mean, 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.240 the hypocritical He's trying to deflect the attention to someone else. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.160 I think what's most interesting is off the back of 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.080 this documentary, the cold case has been reopened. Yeah. Well 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.120 I've read somewhere that police are receiving six phone calls 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.920 a day with new information about the disappearance. I mean, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.800 I just can't get over Like, what was that police 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.400 department doing? She handed them the will that said if 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.839 I die or go missing? Like, what the hell he 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.640 writes that? Who just randomly writes that? And I think 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.000 that's what made a lot of people, more so on 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.640 Joe's side, because it was just the hypocrisy of the 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.720 fact that she's saying she cares so much about these animals, 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.520 but then she's got in her to allegedly kill her husband. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.560 What did everyone think about Joe's social media videos about Carol? 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.720 Because I must say they were quite disgusting in terms 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.560 of the violence by her to have a giggle, it 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.240 was hilarious. It was like watching a car crash. He 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.440 just couldn't look away, you know, when you have a 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.760 vendetta again somebody or something like a former workplace or something. Yeah, 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.720 that was just the epitome of taking things too far. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.920 Do you know what's funny? Because they were both actually 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:18.960 just so similar in the sense that they have a 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.920 love for these cats, they're so obsessed with what they do. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.360 But the major point was I feel like they both 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.880 just wanted to win. Like they didn't care about how 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.360 much money or how much time or effort or energy 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.680 went into it. They just wanted to ultimately win. What 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.640 I found quite strange is the fact that it's quite 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.280 clear that Carol killed her husband, yet she's free, Whereas 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.240 it seems like the sentence for Joe was quite over 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:45.120 the top, considering it was only kind of conspiracy to murder. Yeah, 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.120 do you think if Carol is found guilty of murdering 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.439 her husband that it sort of justifies Joe's stance on 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.480 the whole topic and He's plot to kill her not 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.600 that I don't know. Do you think that justifies it 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.080 at all? I think that's probably how he was justifying it. 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.640 But I think for him that was just a point 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.600 that he could news against her. I think the hatred 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 was really about being the best cat part. I think 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.960 the way that she responded to him legally as well 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.640 by wanting to take all of his possessions and really 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.079 destroy him, said a lot about her greed. Obviously, her 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.560 ex husband's family was saying she was incredibly greedy and 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.040 driven by money. It really did show that side of 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.120 her through the way she treated Joe. Just on a 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.000 side note, talking about her husband Don's other family. So 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.360 she was older than Carol, as Sophie said, and then 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.160 cheated on his wife with the much younger Carol. Did 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.400 you not think the daughters looked exactly the same age 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.200 as the mother and they look like that one had 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.160 a wig on or something. Well one looked older than 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.760 the mum. Yeah, Runette one. I was shocked that. The 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.640 minute said daughter, I was like wow. Also, though your 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.760 point about greed. I think it comes back to that 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.840 thing of winning. She wanted to destroy Joe after making 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.840 those accusations, and do you think in a way she 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.440 wanted to shut him up as well, because he was 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.480 very much pushing the narrative that she did kill her husband. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.720 Her reaction to whenever she was asked a question about 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.960 it was so old, though, Did anyone else notice it? 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.319 She'd always look up strange cackle afterwards. Well, She's hit 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.600 out at Netflix and has said that the way she 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.360 was portrayed was not accurate. It does make me wonder 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.600 because I know a lot of people get really nervous 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.920 in front of the camera, But it was time after 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.079 time after time she had a weird glint in her eye. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.320 She kept looking away when asked about the husband. She 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.120 came across that she was lying. I can't believe she 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.720 allowed them to ask so many questions about the husband. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.360 I would have thought if you agreed to do an interview, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.000 you would have said, I'm not talking about this, this, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.560 and this. She wrote in a three thousand word blog 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.880 after the Netflix documentary aired that she was told by 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.560 producers that it would be a completely different documentary, so 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.720 she's surprised. She was told that it was going to 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.880 be similar to Blackfish, which is a documentary that exposed SeaWorld, 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.640 So she thought it was going to focus on the 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.520 exploitation of the big cubs through Joe and Doc Kat 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.080 Sorry anyway, So I mean a lot of the other 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.000 big characters have come out and said that as well. 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.280 Doc said that he wasn't told the real truth but 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.960 in the doors. But in the defense of the documentary 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.160 make because they said that they started this project five 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.440 years ago. I don't think anyone could have predicted the 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.200 outcome and the fallout that was going to happen. It 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.160 just went in so many different directions. I mean that 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.080 might have been their initial intention. Yeah. From the perspective 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.040 of actually putting that documentary together, Wow, they did a 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.480 good job all of the different storylines and how they linked. 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.360 If you if you look down at your phone for 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.840 a second, you missed out on a huge part, but 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.680 you blink and you missed it because they were so intricate. 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.200 But how difficult would that have been to put together. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.840 I feel like they just did it so well. I 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:35.960 wonder how they felt when all that vision burnt, When 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.640 Joe burnt it all. But that was a different documentary maker, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.760 wasn't it. Yeah, No, but it still could have helped 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.600 with He was very odd, wasn't he? Oh? My gosh, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.000 who the hell was he? He was like a character 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.080 out of the Simpsons. Yeah, he did look like a 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.800 character out of the Simpsons, and one with the cowboy hat. Yeah, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.240 and his voice reminded I can't quite work out who 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.760 he reminded me of. Very odd, wasn't it. Wasn't he 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.680 like a typical He remind me of that typical old 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.960 journo with his cigarette and his out ahole. Because they 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.560 accused him of burning down this year. I mean, as 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.240 if he would one thing, why wouldn't you have that 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.840 shit backed up somewhere? It was like there was almost 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.000 too much content to actually back up now. Another huge 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.640 part of the documentary which I found really interesting was 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.440 Joe's polygamous relationship with his two husbands and the fact 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.040 that he knew deep down that both of them weren't 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.720 in fact gay. I really wanted them to ask did 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.880 they actually consummate both marriages? Well? I mean, I suppose. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.760 They showed a lot of photos of them making out. 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.000 I mean, and also that's different too. But the fact 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680 that both of them were obviously supplied with many drugs 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.640 which would make them sleep with him. Do you know what. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.640 It's kind of like the old Hollywood thing, isn't it 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.200 People will just be with other people for fame or fortune. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.480 Isn't that the epitome of it? But he wasn't even 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.920 famous at the time. That's what I don't get. Yes, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.280 he's famous now, but it was the fame and the 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.680 lure of the animals that it's got a lot of people. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:54.880 But it's also that desperation factor. I feel like both 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.440 of those guys would have been in very desperate circumstances. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.200 But the thing that I couldn't get over is his 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.680 ex husband. I believe it's John, the one with the 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.560 missing teeth. Why the fuck was he never in a shirt? 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.240 Almost no shirt and gray tracks? Do you reckon? They 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.400 were just the producers were like, he was like, maybe 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.520 do I put a top on? Or They're like nah, nah, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.920 that's all good. It was What about when the guy 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.240 was interviewed in the bath? Yeah, that was very strange. 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.119 The one with that was a part of the murder 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.959 plot with the tear drop. Yeah, I was watching it 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.080 with Dale and He's like, is that kind of the bath? Yes, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.119 it just added such a seedy element that was fantastic. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.840 There were so many of those, like grungy, kind of 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.840 drab colors. It just worked so well. Oh the girl 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.680 with a no arms sitting around in the dump chair. Well, 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.119 what is crazy though, is John has now had a 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.919 full set of veneers and his teeth looked incredible, and 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.840 he was actually interviewed by the documentary makers with his 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.840 full set of teeth, but they refused to put it 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.520 in the final edit, so they were so they were 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.280 dentures or he's had his full teeth redone. Oh well, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.320 I saw the best meme about it. It said, because 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:01.680 you know, there were like two that were a little 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.720 bit closer and one that was further away. They said, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.760 examples of social distancing. Not okay, okay. I think the 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.760 guy who ran the zoo, who seemed to be on 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.640 Joe's side, that he then left his wife at the end, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.520 I think he had veneers as well. On the topic 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.360 of John, what did everyone think of John's cover tattoo? 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.560 Oh my god, you could still see it, I said, 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:24.840 turned into reason like, gee, they've done a good job. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.520 Not so for those who didn't see it. He had 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.640 the tattoo right near his groin which said a prop 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.240 property of Joe exotic and John of course ran away 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.720 with the one of the women who worked at the zoo. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.920 Imagine her seeing that every time. Oh my god, she's 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.879 now pregnant. So they're having a kid together. Wow. Well 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.160 the other husband was Travis, who tragically I think there's 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.600 some speculation around whether he killed himself or it was 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.199