Speaker 1: Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout
Speaker 1: Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We
Speaker 1: pay our respect to their elders past and present and
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander
Speaker 1: peoples today.
Speaker 2: This episode is recorded on Gaddigal Land of the Aurora Nation.
Speaker 2: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1: I'm Laura and I'm Brittany, and it has been a wild,
Speaker 1: wild weekend. Hou's not Laura, Well, I mean you drove
Speaker 1: to Port McCory.
Speaker 3: What was so wild?
Speaker 1: Well, not about mine. You started off this morning and
Speaker 1: I don't know this story yet. You came in and
Speaker 1: you said, I'm mad. I haven't slept, had a running
Speaker 1: on the weekend. You've left me on the edge of
Speaker 1: my seat.
Speaker 2: You know, when something happens and it pisses you off
Speaker 2: so much that it just you're laying in bed at
Speaker 2: night time and you're like, and you replay in your
Speaker 2: head how you should have reacted to the situation every
Speaker 2: single day I've ever been on.
Speaker 1: But do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: You're laying there and you're like, oh, I wish I'd
Speaker 2: said this and then you have like the perfect comeback.
Speaker 3: But it's just like twelve hours too late.
Speaker 1: What happened? So because you are you are describing my
Speaker 1: dating life, but you don't have a dating life, So
Speaker 1: what could it have been?
Speaker 2: I just have children and that's who it has to
Speaker 2: do with. Okay, So I was at the beach. This
Speaker 2: is going to enrage other moms out there, and maybe
Speaker 2: it's someone who doesn't have kids who has to put
Speaker 2: up with like other people's kids being annoying. Maybe you
Speaker 2: will have some sympathy from the other side. So we
Speaker 2: went to Bronti Beach. It was a beautiful sunny day
Speaker 2: on Sunday. We decided we'd make the most of it.
Speaker 2: We took the kids down to the kid's end of
Speaker 2: Bronti Beach.
Speaker 1: Right, So there is this little end at the beach
Speaker 1: where it has it's like the waves don't really hit
Speaker 1: it as much and it has a little pool.
Speaker 2: It's a cute little swiet yeah, and it's like, look,
Speaker 2: it's not an official kids end, Like it's not just
Speaker 2: there's not a big sign when you get in there
Speaker 2: saying families only, but there are a lot of children
Speaker 2: down that end of the beach. The other end of
Speaker 2: the beach plenty of adults, more teenagers. But you know,
Speaker 2: we were down there at the family friendly end and
Speaker 2: Lola and Marley.
Speaker 3: Were walking up the stairs.
Speaker 2: There's several stairwells, and each stairwell to get down to
Speaker 2: the sand has an entrance and an exit, like you
Speaker 2: can access the stairs from either side. So on one
Speaker 2: side there's Marley and Lawla trying to get up the stairs.
Speaker 2: And Lola is eighteen months she's not very good at stairs,
Speaker 2: but she's fiercely independent and won't let me help her,
Speaker 2: so she's trying to crawl up the stairs. Marley's also
Speaker 2: walking up the stairs, and this woman comes to walk
Speaker 2: down the stairs, and I tried to move Lala to
Speaker 2: the side, but she wasn't having a bar of it.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this woman had to walk around my kids.
Speaker 2: And then at the same time, Marley's like cousin, so
Speaker 2: my niece Millie, she was coming around the corner, and
Speaker 2: then the woman had to then walk around Millie.
Speaker 1: So is this to getting to the pool?
Speaker 2: This is just to get to the beach, to get
Speaker 2: to the stack, to get onto the sand from the promenade.
Speaker 2: Long story short, Basically, she was trying to get down
Speaker 2: the stairs and there were three kids in the ways
Speaker 2: and it delayed her by like literally five seconds. And
Speaker 2: she turns around as Millie cuts her off, and she goes, oh,
Speaker 2: for fuck's sake, right in front of a four year
Speaker 2: old and right in front of Marley.
Speaker 1: And I was so angry.
Speaker 3: I was so angry.
Speaker 1: So you were there with them, like standing next to
Speaker 1: was the blasphemy directed to the children or to you
Speaker 1: or just in an exasperation to the universe. Well, it
Speaker 1: was an exasperation that my children were stopping her from
Speaker 1: getting to the beach as fast as what she wanted to.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, she said it very.
Speaker 3: Very loudly, which could have only been directed at my kids.
Speaker 1: MM. And so what did you say?
Speaker 3: I said, pull your head in?
Speaker 2: And I went to say the airport, but I was
Speaker 2: like that sense very conund Yeah, that's I just want
Speaker 2: to say from me. But I was like, pull your
Speaker 2: head in. I'm like carried on. The woman jumped in
Speaker 2: the water, I had a quick swim, jumped out.
Speaker 1: But I was like, what did she say? He you
Speaker 1: just you just glossed over this argument. So you have said,
Speaker 1: pull your head in, you know. Therefore, then what has
Speaker 1: she done?
Speaker 2: She was obviously embarrassed, but didn't say anything and then
Speaker 2: ignored me.
Speaker 1: And then and then I wanted to continue it, but
Speaker 1: I did it, and he chased it down and tackled
Speaker 1: her in the water.
Speaker 2: And then I lay in bed last night thinking like
Speaker 2: what should I have said? But I was so caught
Speaker 2: off guard because I've never been in a situation where
Speaker 2: someone has sworn at my kids before.
Speaker 1: So was your unrest in bed? Was that because you'd
Speaker 1: think you should have said more, or should have done less,
Speaker 1: or should have taken a higher row, like what more
Speaker 1: lower road? I should have gone? And like shot on
Speaker 1: her towel while she was having a swim, Like okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you the microphone right now,
Speaker 1: you have the chance to say to her whatever you wanted.
Speaker 1: What would you say to her now? What would you
Speaker 1: have done differently?
Speaker 2: Look, let's give this woman the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 2: She's in Bronti. If anyone wants to go find her
Speaker 2: and get their pitchfoks out, Let's give it the benefit
Speaker 2: of the doubt. She was probably having a really bad
Speaker 2: day and she just wanted to go for her swim
Speaker 2: cleanse off the day and not deal with someone else's children.
Speaker 2: I can appreciate that children are annoying, especially when they're
Speaker 2: not yours. Like I mean, I think I have a
Speaker 2: high tolerance and patience for my own kids.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 2: But I think that there's a very fine line between
Speaker 2: reprimanding or outwardly showing your distaste for someone's kids.
Speaker 3: I think you have to really rate that in.
Speaker 1: I agree, I think that she needs to be banned
Speaker 1: from both vision.
Speaker 2: It just goes down the other end of the flags. Anyway,
Speaker 2: that has been keeping me up at night, and now
Speaker 2: I feel better for.
Speaker 1: Telling everyone thank you Marley noticed, because I know Marley
Speaker 1: dropped their word before. Anyway, maybe this is where she's
Speaker 1: getting it from strangers.
Speaker 3: Maybe this is where she's learning she gets it from me.
Speaker 3: Let's be real.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, nothing as eventful as happened to me.
Speaker 1: I did go to Port Mcruary this weekend for a
Speaker 1: flying trip for my dad's birthday. We did some we
Speaker 1: got drunk and painted. That was amazing and what a
Speaker 1: time to be alive. But I had a moment well
Speaker 1: A I forgot to turn my dating apps off right,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 3: Oh, dating and Port McCrary, what's that lie?
Speaker 1: I always turned my dating apps off when I go
Speaker 1: home to Port McCrary because when you've grown up, and
Speaker 1: everyone that's listening right now will know that, when you
Speaker 1: have grown up in a small town and you were
Speaker 1: there for a very long time, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that you don't want to see and you don't
Speaker 1: want to match with. And I forgot because the first
Speaker 1: message I got was like, oh, you've come back to
Speaker 1: your grassroots. I see, And I was like, I have
Speaker 1: to delete this immediately.
Speaker 3: Did you know who the person was? David for primary school?
Speaker 1: I like, damn it. I forgot to snooze my dating
Speaker 1: apps because you can snooze your dating apps right. Then
Speaker 1: it's put me into this weird phase where we've spoken
Speaker 1: about it before. It's dating fatigue, right, And it's not
Speaker 1: just dating fatigue for me because I'm not fatigued at
Speaker 1: the moment by dating, but I'm online dating fatigued, so
Speaker 1: the online version, So I don't mind. I'm still happy
Speaker 1: to go on dates.
Speaker 2: Oh, you want to meet people in the real world,
Speaker 2: you just don't want to have to do like the
Speaker 2: annoying like oh, how are you going? Like, you know,
Speaker 2: what did you grow up in Sydney?
Speaker 3: Bullshit?
Speaker 1: It's so annoying, And now I want to ask you
Speaker 1: a question because I don't know if I'm overreacting. But
Speaker 1: everything turns me off now, like everything I'm finding the
Speaker 1: most ridiculous things on people's profiles and the things that
Speaker 1: they're saying to be like no, even sometimes I match
Speaker 1: them and they say something and I'm just it's just
Speaker 1: a no. But like this one guy just wrote to me,
Speaker 1: right you get it up? And I'm like, am I
Speaker 1: is something happening internally that I need to deal with
Speaker 1: because this is my reaction and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's actually that bad. Is a photo of Delilah and
Speaker 1: myself here, I'll just show you.
Speaker 2: Cute, amazing I've just like in the sunset, you and
Speaker 2: the dog having a romantic time together.
Speaker 1: So standard, and the comment all he wrote was hot energy.
Speaker 1: That's it, hot energy, and I was like, just a
Speaker 1: just Alilah have hot energy? Do I have hot energy?
Speaker 1: Where's the energy coming from?
Speaker 3: That was it?
Speaker 2: And I was nothing else, no other content, hot energy?
Speaker 2: Hot smile?
Speaker 1: Is that a reason? And I was like, ill, gross, Ill?
Speaker 1: Is that a reason to be turned off and something
Speaker 1: happening to me that I need.
Speaker 4: To deal with.
Speaker 2: Look, I think you're probably picking it upart a little bit.
Speaker 2: But what do you write back to that?
Speaker 3: Anyway? Thank you hot energy?
Speaker 1: Where do you go with that? Yeah? And how do
Speaker 1: you tell my energy is hot?
Speaker 3: I think he's just saying you are hot?
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't, No, it was not.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, then what constitutes and appropriate sliding? Like? What
Speaker 2: is a message that someone could send that would make
Speaker 2: you reply I'm just.
Speaker 1: Not having a lot of luck on there, and I
Speaker 1: I don't know it's me. So I got another message
Speaker 1: right on in my DMS, okay, in my Instagram DMS
Speaker 1: from a guy that said, hey, I saw you online.
Speaker 1: And now this started off well, right, I saw you
Speaker 1: online dating, So I thought, oh, he said I've seen you,
Speaker 1: then he's gonna he I obviously have a matched with
Speaker 1: me ye, and he's gonna ask me out. But that
Speaker 1: wasn't it. He said, Hey, I saw you online. Just
Speaker 1: wanted to let you know you probably shouldn't use dating apps.
Speaker 1: Just go and meet someone in the supermarket. Seems to work. Well,
Speaker 1: have a good day.
Speaker 3: That was it.
Speaker 1: He went out of his way. I am not even kidding.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, you have gone out
Speaker 1: of your way to to find me sliding to my
Speaker 1: DMS to tell me to stop using dating apps. You
Speaker 1: didn't want to ask me out, and then you told
Speaker 1: me to go to the supermarket to meet people.
Speaker 2: Do you think he is also on dating apps but
Speaker 2: doesn't use them and only meets people in supermarkets?
Speaker 1: Laura, Not all heroes where cakes. He's one of them.
Speaker 1: He was just coming in with some advice. But like,
Speaker 1: how it's a really hard time to be on the
Speaker 1: dating apps.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to say this. I do think that
Speaker 2: you can be too picky though. I think that a
Speaker 2: lot of people go into the whole chatting to people
Speaker 2: on dating apps. They go into it with minimal effort,
Speaker 2: and they're not invested because they might just be like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's up, how's your week been? Really blend and boring questions.
Speaker 2: But the reason for that is because they're probably talking
Speaker 2: to ten other people at the same time, or they're
Speaker 2: too busy enjoying their actual real life that online dating
Speaker 2: to them is just something to fill in the time.
Speaker 2: So I think you can't be too critical to start with,
Speaker 2: maybe it's okay to answer and reply to those people
Speaker 2: and then see within fifteen minutes or a day or
Speaker 2: whatever it is, whether that banter has improved. And obviously,
Speaker 2: if it hasn't improved after a couple of exchanges, then.
Speaker 1: Well, I know it's too late for me. Like, I
Speaker 1: know I need to take a break because I did
Speaker 1: have a bit of a rule.
Speaker 3: Produce A.
Speaker 1: Kisha and I have spoken about this before. We both
Speaker 1: had a bit of a rule and we've said it
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Don't just start with a hey how
Speaker 1: are you? Like, get a bit of excitement, write to
Speaker 1: them about their prompts or their profiles, or just be
Speaker 1: be better than that. Right, But it's not the end better,
Speaker 1: but it's not well a, it's not the end of
Speaker 1: the world for me. If if someone says to me, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you, I'm a bit like really, but I'll
Speaker 1: still respond, right produce a. Keisha's Flatno, she's like she's
Speaker 1: a hard note she blocks and deletes, which is I
Speaker 1: think that is too far? Right? Okay.
Speaker 2: I have a question though, if they're super hot, like
Speaker 2: if they are the hottest person under the sun, would
Speaker 2: you still be like, oh, that's not interesting enough.
Speaker 1: Yes, I would, but I would respond now, I said
Speaker 1: to produce Akisha, I said, what if chatting Tatum wrote
Speaker 1: to you, Hey, how are you now? I don't believe
Speaker 1: it where it comes out of her mouth, but she
Speaker 1: said she would block and delete. I'm like, as if,
Speaker 1: but I know that I'm I'm not old. Well, I
Speaker 1: know I'm over it because I've started to do this.
Speaker 1: Last night I wrote to someone and said, Hey, how's
Speaker 1: your week? And then I was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: I've become the person I hate. I was like this,
Speaker 1: this is how I know it's time to take a break.
Speaker 1: So I think I need to snooze and start dressing
Speaker 1: up and going to the supermarket.
Speaker 2: There is nothing wrong with hey, how's your week? There's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with it. It is a fine and appropriate
Speaker 2: way of starting a conversation.
Speaker 1: Okay, so do you guys know about this? Someone has
Speaker 1: told us this before. I need to look into it
Speaker 1: a bit more. Apparently, you know how this guy wrote
Speaker 1: to me and said, go to the supermarket. Apparently there's
Speaker 1: a thing. There's a thing where you go to the
Speaker 1: supermarket and there are like low key like batman signals
Speaker 1: that you put out to other people that shows your
Speaker 1: single and their date. It's something about no, there's not
Speaker 1: I look, I'm just saying this could be a myth,
Speaker 1: but I've heard it's like you're making a salad.
Speaker 2: There's some underground sex club in Woolworth. Yeah, at the
Speaker 2: banana store.
Speaker 3: I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1: But if somebody knows, someone out there knows what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. Right now, there are apparently signals that you
Speaker 1: can do in the fruit arena or something in the
Speaker 1: supermarket that lets somebody there know that you're the single today.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's rubbing your hand up
Speaker 1: and down the eggplant. I don't know if that's it,
Speaker 1: but there is a sign Brittany, just.
Speaker 2: Deep throating and banana sub Okay. The problem is is
Speaker 2: that you're then expecting everybody else to know what these
Speaker 2: cues are.
Speaker 1: I think it's an underground club like fight club. You
Speaker 1: don't talk about fight club, but everyone knows.
Speaker 3: I don't think any.
Speaker 2: We have a dating and Relationship podcast if we don't
Speaker 2: even know, I don't think any Mony Funky knows bri
Speaker 2: he has the problem.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm the problem.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe whole episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, let us tell you what today's episode is
Speaker 2: about because as much as we're having a lot of
Speaker 2: fun and many laughs at the start of this, we
Speaker 2: have quite a serious episode in terms of the conversation
Speaker 2: that we're having. We're interviewing a wonderful woman. Her name
Speaker 2: is Renee Sims.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Renee is the niece of Lynette Dawson, and I know
Speaker 2: so many of you will have heard that name, will
Speaker 2: have listened to the podcast and be as invested in
Speaker 2: it as what Britt and I are. But there is
Speaker 2: a podcast called The Teacher's Pet. It was hosted by
Speaker 2: investigative journalist Headley Tom and it's been produced for The Australian.
Speaker 2: Now this podcast series is all about the disappearance and
Speaker 2: murder of Lynette Dawson and recently her husband at the time,
Speaker 2: Chris Dawson, was charged for her murder. Now, this happened
Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty two, so it has been forty
Speaker 2: years since Lynnette's disappearance until now when Chris is finally
Speaker 2: being charged for her murder.
Speaker 1: It was just such a captivating story. It has been
Speaker 1: listened to fifty two million times all over the world,
Speaker 1: which it's a really powerful thing these days to know
Speaker 1: that somebody can tell their story and be heard all
Speaker 1: across the world. Because what happened with this is the
Speaker 1: reason that after forty years, I mean Lennett is the
Speaker 1: mother to two daughters, this will happen on the northern
Speaker 1: beaches of Sydney, which, in comparison to the rest of
Speaker 1: the world. You know, this is a time in little suburb.
Speaker 1: Her story was not heard. Nothing was happening for a
Speaker 1: very long time. But because of this podcast, because of
Speaker 1: this investigative journalist, because this was listened to fifty two
Speaker 1: million times, it got to the point where they reopened
Speaker 1: the case and after forty years, the family was finally
Speaker 1: given a verdict. They were finally able to have a
Speaker 1: tiny bit of closure, even though unfortunately Lynnett's body was
Speaker 1: never found and it hasn't ever been revealed where it is,
Speaker 1: and I don't think it is ever going to be well.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that's so interesting about this chat
Speaker 2: so the reason why we wanted to get Renee on
Speaker 2: the podcast. We obviously were so invested. I listened to
Speaker 2: The Teacher's Pet when I was traveling around New Zealand
Speaker 2: a few years back when it very first came out.
Speaker 2: But it has not been accessible for the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, and that's because the case had been reopened
Speaker 2: against her husband, Chris Dawson. Now, as you said, Chris
Speaker 2: has always maintained his innocence, but after forty years he's
Speaker 2: been found guilty. Now, the reason why Renee's story is
Speaker 2: so interesting is because Renee is petitioning for a new
Speaker 2: law to be passed within New South Wales.
Speaker 3: Called Lynn's Law.
Speaker 2: And what that means is is that if somebody is
Speaker 2: convicted of murder, as Chris Dawson has been, unless there
Speaker 2: is a body somebody who's found guilty, is not able
Speaker 2: to be eligible for parole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because crazily enough, and I didn't really realize until
Speaker 1: this petition for Lyn's Law was brought up. It's something
Speaker 1: I guess you don't think about. It is only in
Speaker 1: New South Wales currently, but you can still get parole
Speaker 1: without saying where the body is. And I think this
Speaker 1: is a brilliant thing to introduce to say that, well,
Speaker 1: do you know what, like, if you want any sort
Speaker 1: of leniency, you've got to provide us with something, You've
Speaker 1: got to give us something back.
Speaker 2: Well, it also adds into closure for the family, So
Speaker 2: that is all coming up in a little while, we
Speaker 2: will get into Rene's story and into how her family
Speaker 2: are doing now that this verdict has been passed. But
Speaker 2: before we get into all of that, Brittany, there is
Speaker 2: something I wanted to update you on, and I know
Speaker 2: we've foked about it a little bit over last couple
Speaker 2: of days, weeks, maybe two weeks, the intimacy challenge. This
Speaker 2: is not about me, Okay, this is not about my intimacy.
Speaker 2: It's not about Matt's sex life. As much as some
Speaker 2: of you I know are absolutely just hanging on the
Speaker 2: edge of your seats to hear about my sex life again,
Speaker 2: and some of you are completely repulsed by it and
Speaker 2: don't want to hear any thing more. No, it's about
Speaker 2: something that I read recently, which I sent to you
Speaker 2: last night because I thought it would be good for
Speaker 2: you to do your research as well.
Speaker 1: It is, oh I did. I think it's hilarious.
Speaker 3: It is called Carreza.
Speaker 2: And we don't know if we're pronouncing this right, could
Speaker 2: be butchering it. It's called correza sex k A R
Speaker 2: E double z A. We're gonna go with Carreza, which
Speaker 2: is kind of like caress. Correza sex.
Speaker 1: I can actually have the pronunciation here, oh, corretza corretza,
Speaker 1: so it's it's red. It's a type of gentle affectionate
Speaker 1: sexual intercourse. It comes from the Italian word correza, which
Speaker 1: means caress, so it's coming from this like this intimacy. Right.
Speaker 1: But the whole idea is to have sex without orgasming,
Speaker 1: which kind of goes against the whole purpose of why
Speaker 1: so many of us have sex. Like the most common
Speaker 1: questions we get is how do I reach orgasm? What
Speaker 1: do I do to get it? We don't often have
Speaker 1: anyone writing, and so I really want to work on
Speaker 1: not coming like how do I do that? And obviously
Speaker 1: there are things called edging. We've spoken about that before,
Speaker 1: where you take someone to the brink of an orgasm
Speaker 1: and then you wind it back and it's like a
Speaker 1: teasing kind of sex. But the whole amazing.
Speaker 2: But the whole thing with edging is because you do that,
Speaker 2: because you build up towards having an orgasm, right, So
Speaker 2: like that when you finally do have the orgasm during sex,
Speaker 2: it's like absolutely mind blowing. But the thing with coreza
Speaker 2: sex is that it's the whole point of careza sex
Speaker 2: is to never have an orgasm. So it's not about
Speaker 2: having passionate sex. It's about having very slow intimate like
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to describe it. It makes
Speaker 2: me think of when I was eighteen years old. I
Speaker 2: didn't know how to have sex, just being connected and
Speaker 2: everything being very very slow.
Speaker 1: I had to have a laugh at this, Like the
Speaker 1: first line that I read was positions are commonly very relaxed,
Speaker 1: such as lying side by side. I'm like, every single
Speaker 1: morning in a long term relationship, isn't it not even
Speaker 1: every morning.
Speaker 3: Once a week.
Speaker 1: Isn't that really lazy? Just like side by side sex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but usually you still orgasm.
Speaker 2: But the reason why some experts recommend that you should
Speaker 2: all try having careza sex with your partners coetza, oh, corretza,
Speaker 2: thank you for correcting me, is that it triggers the
Speaker 2: release of oxytocin. There is more of that bonding hormone,
Speaker 2: which improves intimacy, It improves closeness and also can improve
Speaker 2: communication between couples. And then also on top of that,
Speaker 2: taking the pressure off wanting to achieve an orgasm and
Speaker 2: that being the end goal can also bring about a
Speaker 2: level of closeness as well.
Speaker 1: Looks sex can be amazing without an orgasm. We know
Speaker 1: that it can still feel good, you can still have fun,
Speaker 1: you can still enjoy it. But for me, I still
Speaker 1: want to have that end goal, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to put all that time and energy to not get
Speaker 1: that like firework at the end. I'm all about and
Speaker 1: I understand this. I'm all about that closeness and trying
Speaker 1: to bond and trying to have that sensuality and that
Speaker 1: magnetism and the connection. Like I think that's great, but
Speaker 1: let me get off at the end. Yeah, but poor
Speaker 1: can no last dots?
Speaker 3: Why can't you have both?
Speaker 1: And then why can't we do that for an hour?
Speaker 1: I mean ten minutes even, why can't we have them?
Speaker 1: But I had to laugh. So some of the I
Speaker 1: want to tell you some of the behaviors that you
Speaker 1: can do to enhance your sexual experience. So some of
Speaker 1: the things that they suggest you do in this currets
Speaker 1: are sex number one, smile, especially while making eye contact.
Speaker 1: Now I'm sorry, but can you imagine being in the
Speaker 1: moment and looking at each other with a humongous smile
Speaker 1: on your face like it's a That's a moodkiller for me.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see you like it's the fourth
Speaker 1: of July. I don't want to see you like you're
Speaker 1: at a celebration. I want to see you like you're
Speaker 1: enjoying what you're doing, like it's sexy and passionate. If
Speaker 1: you have like a Colgate white smile on your face
Speaker 1: looking into my eyes, I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Be in hysterics.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like, if you're going to smile at
Speaker 2: someone like that during sex whilst making intense eye contact
Speaker 2: with them, you probably have to have a conversation first
Speaker 2: that you're going to try this.
Speaker 1: Because you imagine if someone just sprung.
Speaker 3: That out of the blue.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: The other one I really enjoyed was gently cradle and
Speaker 2: rock your partner head or top.
Speaker 1: I've highlighted that sentence because I'm like, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Gently cradle or rock your partner's head or tors.
Speaker 1: That's what I do when I'm having a breakdown. I
Speaker 1: hold and I rock for your life. Like that's not
Speaker 1: that's I can't do.
Speaker 2: That in sex whilst you're having intercourse, lie with one
Speaker 2: ear over your partner's heart.
Speaker 1: No one's a good beat to hear them, to hear
Speaker 1: their heartbeat, place your hand gently over your partner's genitals
Speaker 1: with the intention to comfort them.
Speaker 3: We are children, like we are talking about sex and laughing.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I feel like?
Speaker 2: If any sex ologists or yogi's what do they called,
Speaker 2: like sensual tantric yogis were listening to this podcast, I'd
Speaker 2: be like, those two girls do not have a good
Speaker 2: sex life. Well, no, I see, I think, like I yes,
Speaker 2: I do think this is funny.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I think this is funny, but
Speaker 1: mainly because I think it's unusual to get there to
Speaker 1: be cupping genitals, but to not do anything with them,
Speaker 1: like just to comfort the genitals. Look, I'm happy to cup,
Speaker 1: I will do whatever, but I need that end goal.
Speaker 1: Like I would love to have this connection during the process,
Speaker 1: but I still, for me think it needs an end goal.
Speaker 1: But I'm open. I am not going to knock anything
Speaker 1: until I try it. I have anyone to try it
Speaker 1: with currently, But when I.
Speaker 3: Do, I do have something to say though.
Speaker 2: If you're a male listener and you struggle to get
Speaker 2: your partner to orgasm at all, you can now just
Speaker 2: tell her that you're doing corressa sex and it's it
Speaker 2: was an intentional thing.
Speaker 1: All right, here we go. See as though, Laura, you
Speaker 1: are the only person right here that can do this.
Speaker 1: I want you to go and try this with Maddie. Jay.
Speaker 1: You've got to go and put in, do your due diligence,
Speaker 1: do your research, cup him for half an hour, cradle him,
Speaker 1: rock him, and come back and tell me if you
Speaker 1: feel closer. And I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm not taking a piss, so he is your hum either,
Speaker 2: like neither of us can come. No, you just cup.
Speaker 2: So we have to just have very slow sex with
Speaker 2: the zero. Okay, I'll do it. He won't be happy,
Speaker 2: but we'll do it. Okay, these are things I want
Speaker 2: you to do. Don't tell Matt. I want you to
Speaker 2: have very slow sex. I want you to smile while
Speaker 2: holding eye contact. I want you to rock his head
Speaker 2: and cup him his balls. But then that's it.
Speaker 1: That's all you can do.
Speaker 2: And when we're finished, after not having an orgasm, I'll
Speaker 2: just lay with my ear on his heart to hear
Speaker 2: his hart yes.
Speaker 1: And then you can't tell him. You can't tell him
Speaker 1: why you're doing it, and I want you then afterwards
Speaker 1: be like, do you feel closer to me? This is
Speaker 1: actually a real test because I want to put it
Speaker 1: to the test. All right, I'll do it great, throwing
Speaker 1: you to the wolves.
Speaker 2: Guys, I got my vagina ozonized for this podcast. I
Speaker 2: will definitely do correds to sex.
Speaker 1: That's fine, But you haven't actually mentioned your update on
Speaker 1: your intimacy challenge. You must be tenish days in or so,
Speaker 1: do you have anything to report yet?
Speaker 2: I think we're I think we're like eight days in. Okay,
Speaker 2: Like fine, everything's I don't want to get to ahead
Speaker 2: of ourselves. Okay, when we've not been like I said,
Speaker 2: if you listen to the radio episode, we realize that
Speaker 2: you don't have to have sex every day. So we've
Speaker 2: kind of cheated a little bit. But like we're we're
Speaker 2: still being intimate. Well, this is doing intimate things.
Speaker 1: This is why this coupping will come in really hand.
Speaker 1: It could be the perfect exactly what you need right now.
Speaker 1: No corretza sounds like a lot of effort for very
Speaker 1: little reward, but I will try it just for you. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Let's get into our favorite part of every episode, and
Speaker 1: that is accidentally unfiltered. I'm going first. I have a
Speaker 1: very funny, quick short one that I want to read
Speaker 1: to you to all all right, hit me. I was
Speaker 1: just at the hairdressers and she asked me to vote
Speaker 1: for her in the Business Awards. I handed her my phone,
Speaker 1: just pop in the details and I'll do it now.
Speaker 1: She got Google up and my last search was why
Speaker 1: does my clip pole so much? After I masturbate? Fuck
Speaker 1: my life? So her hairdress is trying to vote for
Speaker 1: herself in the Business Awards. Honestly, your Google history can
Speaker 1: be disastrous, like I often think, Laura, even when it's
Speaker 1: you or produce a Keisha, my sister, my family, my friends.
Speaker 1: People often ask to quickly Google something on the phone. Right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna pull out right now?
Speaker 2: Giuse little quiz that we can just throll in the
Speaker 2: middle of accidently unfiltereds.
Speaker 3: What are your last for like search?
Speaker 2: Like if you pull up your search history on your phone,
Speaker 2: what are the last four things that you have seard disaster?
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 2: O.
Speaker 1: Hey, my first one is what are the beij flags
Speaker 1: in dating? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, so obviously I'm really doing chess in the dating world,
Speaker 1: as if I should have already know what they are?
Speaker 2: How do you know if you were an absolute boring
Speaker 2: fuck on the dating profiles.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 2: I've got DNA test. Sure, who's my daddy, Dad? I
Speaker 2: love you, I know who they are.
Speaker 1: I was just must have been researching something.
Speaker 2: Oval nude nail pictures, Oval nude nail pictures yep.
Speaker 1: So like I was trying to find nails to get
Speaker 1: for my sister's wedding, which is in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: So like oval shaped nude nail That was a Google
Speaker 1: search right right, some highbrow research right there. And then
Speaker 1: I've got most amazing islands to travel to. Obviously, I'm
Speaker 1: really wanting to get away after the news that Australia
Speaker 1: is gonna have lear Nina three point zero and rain
Speaker 1: for eternity.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I was Okay, this sounds really bad, but
Speaker 2: I was actually just doing research for the podcast. So
Speaker 2: my search history at the moment is truly questionable. And
Speaker 2: imagine if my phone got stolen and someone saw the
Speaker 2: stuff that I've been reading here it is, man suffers
Speaker 2: one hundred erections a day.
Speaker 1: Man smashes out of coffin after he was buried.
Speaker 2: I've got squirt blankets are here to save you from
Speaker 2: dot dot dot. And science has officially figured out what squirting.
Speaker 1: Is I also have sex addicts you didn't know about. Okay.
Speaker 2: I was at work on a video call today and
Speaker 2: we were discussing a polling tool called a slidto. I
Speaker 2: was sharing my screen and giving a detailed demo to
Speaker 2: everyone on the call when I accidentally closed the tab.
Speaker 2: I felt a little flustered, but apologized and quickly opened
Speaker 2: a new tab and typed in slido into Google. Also,
Speaker 2: I thought the S and the D are unfortunately really
Speaker 2: close together on a keyboard, so what I had actually
Speaker 2: typed in was dildo and smashed the MT key and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden I was present a screen filled
Speaker 2: with dildos to my colleagues yig ones, small ones, pink ones,
Speaker 2: blue ones, ones with suctions on the end rap me.
Speaker 2: I calmly retyped slido into the Google search bar and
Speaker 2: continued on as though nothing happened.
Speaker 1: I reckon, there has been so many brilliant screen shares
Speaker 1: from people that have accidentally shared their screen. So I
Speaker 1: love that everyone on a work hall thinks that she's
Speaker 1: that bored that she's typing dildos on her own course.
Speaker 1: She's like, Wow, while they're talking money, I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: at my new deal though.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the chat with Renee. Lynette
Speaker 2: Dawson was living in the Northern Beaches of Sydney as
Speaker 2: a mum of two girls, a sister, a friend and
Speaker 2: a daughter. Lynnette has now been missing for forty years
Speaker 2: and there was nobody, no witnesses and no admissions.
Speaker 3: For decades.
Speaker 2: Despite two coronial inquests, no charges were laid for her
Speaker 2: disappearance until now. A lot of our listeners would now
Speaker 2: be familiar with the story of Lynette Dawson. After the
Speaker 2: Teacher's Pet podcast by The Australian investigated the mysterious circums
Speaker 2: chances of her disappearance. The podcast was downloaded more than
Speaker 2: fifty two million times around the world. Finally, after forty years,
Speaker 2: Justice Ian Harrison delivered the long awaited verdict that Chris Dawson,
Speaker 2: Lynette's husband at the time, was guilty of murdering her.
Speaker 2: Joining us today is Renee Simms. Renee is Lynett Dawson's
Speaker 2: niece who is campaigning for changes to the new South
Speaker 2: Wales legal system being termed Lynn's Law. Renee, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for joining us today.
Speaker 5: You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: I mean, for forty years, this has been a missing
Speaker 1: person's case, and for forty years, not a lot has
Speaker 1: happened until this podcast came about. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think when you sign on to do a
Speaker 4: podcast like this, you never quite know where it's going
Speaker 4: to end up. Like, we never could have envisaged that
Speaker 4: this is where this whole story would I guess run
Speaker 4: its course run full term. So yeah, to think that
Speaker 4: fifty two million people or there's been fifty two million
Speaker 4: downloads of Lynn's stories.
Speaker 2: For anyone who hasn't listened to the podcast, like you
Speaker 2: listen to the first few episodes, and you feel so
Speaker 2: enraged that someone could think that this woman had just
Speaker 2: walked away from her family and disappeared. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: that that is exactly how you and your family have
Speaker 2: felt your entire life. Renee, can you give us just
Speaker 2: so that everyone understands a little bit of background in
Speaker 2: terms of like how you and Lynette were related, how
Speaker 2: you fit into the family, and whether you and your
Speaker 2: lifetime got to spend any time with Lynette.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm Lynette's niece. My dad is Greg Sims, so
Speaker 4: he was Lynette's little brother and he's married to Marilyn.
Speaker 4: So if you've ever seen any footage, particularly recently to
Speaker 4: do with anything with this case, you would have seen
Speaker 4: gregor Marilyn, and they are my mom and dad. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: I am not forty, so this happened before I was born,
Speaker 4: so I never had the chance to get to meet her.
Speaker 2: Even though you haven't had the chance to meet Lynette,
Speaker 2: can you give us and explain to us kind of
Speaker 2: the impact that this has had on your family and
Speaker 2: how you have observed that throughout your lifetime.
Speaker 4: It's taken a toll on a lot of people in
Speaker 4: terms of they have fought for a really long time
Speaker 4: to try and find out what happened to Lynn, and
Speaker 4: often we just weren't getting anywhere with that. So it's
Speaker 4: incredibly frustrating process to go through.
Speaker 1: So what was it about it? And how have you
Speaker 1: found yourself now in this position as the person that
Speaker 1: is out there finding and advocating and trying to change
Speaker 1: the laws. How did you find yourself here? What was
Speaker 1: it about seeing your family go through what they went
Speaker 1: through that you just thought, I'm just going to dedicate
Speaker 1: so much of my time and energy to changing this.
Speaker 4: This is not really a position that I find comfortable
Speaker 4: at all. I'm a massive introvert, so I would just
Speaker 4: prefer to lock myself in a room and not talk
Speaker 4: to anyone, and that would be perfectly fine with me.
Speaker 4: But you know, you bite the bullet and you stand
Speaker 4: up for things that are important, and I know that,
Speaker 4: particularly when the podcast started coming out, my mum and
Speaker 4: dad were inundated with a lot of media requests and
Speaker 4: they weren't always able to do them. I put my
Speaker 4: hand up and said that I would be happy to
Speaker 4: just try and get the word out. I guess in
Speaker 4: the beginning, we weren't sure how many people going to
Speaker 4: listen to the podcast or how successful.
Speaker 5: It was going to be.
Speaker 4: So any chance we got to talk about the podcast
Speaker 4: and get the word out there, we were willing to
Speaker 4: do it. So that's sort of how I ended up
Speaker 4: starting to do a lot of this stuff, and it's
Speaker 4: just kept coming.
Speaker 1: What is your understanding? What has your family told you
Speaker 1: about Lynn and who she was and what she was
Speaker 1: like as a person, what her life was like before
Speaker 1: she went missing.
Speaker 4: So they tell me that she was really fun loving,
Speaker 4: she was always all about her family, She was always
Speaker 4: one to stand up for herself, and for what she
Speaker 4: thought was right, and she was never one to walk
Speaker 4: past a joke.
Speaker 5: So it's quite nice.
Speaker 4: Knowing her siblings, you can sort of see that in
Speaker 4: a lot of them as well, so you do get
Speaker 4: a bit of an understanding about what she would have
Speaker 4: been like if I'd have had the chance to meet her.
Speaker 2: And also even though you didn't have the opportunity of
Speaker 2: meeting her, and her being a part of your life
Speaker 2: throughout your life, and I'm sure that she has come
Speaker 2: up in discussions and I'm sure even before the Australian
Speaker 2: came up as an idea of doing this podcast, the
Speaker 2: teacher's pat what did your dad speak to you about
Speaker 2: in terms of what he had thought had happened to Lynn.
Speaker 4: It's kind of a fine line, like you want to
Speaker 4: talk to your kids about this person that's been in
Speaker 4: your life and what they were like and everything about them,
Speaker 4: But then how do you have discussions like at what
Speaker 4: age do you start having discussions with your kids about
Speaker 4: domestic violence or potential murder? Like it's a really fine
Speaker 4: line to tread, And I honestly can't tell you how
Speaker 4: that went for us. I don't really have any memory
Speaker 4: of when things sort of switched over into we've got
Speaker 4: this aunt who was a lovely person to all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, Yeah, she's also possibly been murdered. I don't
Speaker 4: remember when that happened, but it clearly did. If that
Speaker 4: were to happen nowadays, maybe it would be a more
Speaker 4: open discussion, But this was sort of in the eighties
Speaker 4: and nineties, and I think those sorts of discussions weren't
Speaker 4: had as openly as they would be now.
Speaker 1: Did your family the whole time, it's been forty years,
Speaker 1: which is a very long time, What was the relationship
Speaker 1: like with your family increase this whole time? Was there
Speaker 1: ever a time where it was sort of normal and
Speaker 1: they believe his manipulation and his lies and genuinely believed
Speaker 1: maybe she had left on her own cord? Or did
Speaker 1: they always suspect that just something didn't seem right.
Speaker 4: You don't ever want to suspect that someone who's a
Speaker 4: treasured member of your family, which Chris was at the time,
Speaker 4: You don't want to ever suspect that they've done anything bad.
Speaker 4: And if they're telling you that this person is calling
Speaker 4: and they're sending messages and they're completely fine, you kind
Speaker 4: of want to believe that because believing the alternative means
Speaker 4: that you're never going to see that person again.
Speaker 5: So it's kind of a tricky one.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, because you know, how do you reconcile that she's
Speaker 4: either decided not to ever talk to you again or
Speaker 4: she's not alive anymore, so you know which one is it.
Speaker 4: But he would tell awful lives, like he would say
Speaker 4: to my Nan, Oh, don't worry, I've spoken to her.
Speaker 4: She's going to call you on Wednesday, And then my
Speaker 4: Nan would sit by the phone all day Wednesday waiting
Speaker 4: for her to call, and that call was never going
Speaker 4: to come. Like that is such a cruel thing to
Speaker 4: do to someone. My Nan didn't actually realize. Her moment
Speaker 4: of realization that Lynn was absolutely no longer alive was
Speaker 4: at my PA's funeral, and she spent the whole funeral
Speaker 4: turning around and looking at the doors, and we said
Speaker 4: to her, what are you doing? And she said, Lynn
Speaker 4: wouldn't miss today. If Lynn was alive, she wouldn't miss today.
Speaker 5: So she would.
Speaker 4: Happily miss birthdays and all sorts of family celebrations. But
Speaker 4: according to my Nan, she would not have missed the funeral.
Speaker 4: So that was the moment for her.
Speaker 2: Does your side of the family have anything to do
Speaker 2: with Lynn's daughters.
Speaker 1: We do.
Speaker 4: We did have a relationship with both of them as
Speaker 4: they were growing up. They moved to Queensland when they
Speaker 4: were quite young, and so they would come down in
Speaker 4: school holidays to see my grandparents and we would come
Speaker 4: down and visit them.
Speaker 5: We're still very much.
Speaker 4: In contact with the elder of the two daughters, but
Speaker 4: the younger one made it very clear at my NaN's funeral,
Speaker 4: she was probably in her early twenties by then. She
Speaker 4: made it very clear that she was coming to say
Speaker 4: goodbye to my Nan and that was it. She wasn't
Speaker 4: going to have any contact with the rest of us,
Speaker 4: and she stood by that up until this day. Like,
Speaker 4: we're very old open to reopening a relationship with her,
Speaker 4: but she has to be the one to reach out
Speaker 4: if she would like that.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is Do you think that
Speaker 1: it's just all too overwhelming or do you think there's
Speaker 1: still a level of I guess like protection of Chris,
Speaker 1: like of her father, or just a confusion. Has she
Speaker 1: given you any indication.
Speaker 4: She hasn't, But her older sister has sort of told
Speaker 4: us some of the things that they've been told as
Speaker 4: they were growing up, and it's my understanding that she's
Speaker 4: been told some pretty awful things about us and about
Speaker 4: her mother, and that we're all.
Speaker 5: In a witch hunt for Chris.
Speaker 2: Basically, it's just devastating because if you grow up and
Speaker 2: that's your entire world, that's your truth, that's your reality,
Speaker 2: that's the identity that you have been told since you
Speaker 2: were such a little child, that you can't remember anything different.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine not just how hard this period
Speaker 2: has been for you and for your family and for
Speaker 2: your dad, but also for them not just losing their
Speaker 2: mum when they're little girls, but now having to come
Speaker 2: to the realization of not just losing their dad, but
Speaker 2: that they're Da was never the person that they thought
Speaker 2: he was at the same time, must be so unbelievably
Speaker 2: challenging for them, and I just feel so much of
Speaker 2: them as people at the moment. Can you tell me, Renee. Obviously,
Speaker 2: when the Teacher's Pet came out, I remember I was
Speaker 2: in New Zealand with Matt and the whole time we
Speaker 2: were driving around we listened to the whole thing and
Speaker 2: we just there was this unbelievable rage that somebody couldn't
Speaker 2: be held accountable for what seemed so obvious to everybody listening.
Speaker 2: And then there was a period where you could no
Speaker 2: longer listen to the teacher's pet for fear of it
Speaker 2: jeopardizing the court cases. What has this last two or
Speaker 2: two and a half years been like for your family,
Speaker 2: knowing that this has reopened up everything and that it
Speaker 2: was going to go to trial, and that Chris Dawson
Speaker 2: may very well face genuine repercussions for what he's done.
Speaker 4: To be honest to it's quite unbelievable because obviously, for
Speaker 4: thirty six years, by the time the podcast started coming out,
Speaker 4: we had been campaigning and pushing and trying to get
Speaker 4: this to trial, and it had been before the DPP
Speaker 4: multiple times before that point, and they decided not to
Speaker 4: push your head with the prosecution. So we were doing
Speaker 4: what we could to try and get it heard, but
Speaker 4: nothing was happening. So when Headley came along and started
Speaker 4: to do like told us that he wanted to do
Speaker 4: the podcast, we were on board with that. We were
Speaker 4: very willing to do whatever it took, although my dad
Speaker 4: did have to ask what a podcast was, so that
Speaker 4: was fun.
Speaker 3: Don't worry my Dad still doesn't know what it is either.
Speaker 1: Half the population still don't. So if that makes him
Speaker 1: feel any bad, I think it's a generational thing, so
Speaker 1: don't worry.
Speaker 5: Possibly, possibly it's all right. I fixed him up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we can't be more grateful for the podcast
Speaker 4: because I think without it we definitely wouldn't be here,
Speaker 4: or we wouldn't have a guilty verdict. Who wouldn't have
Speaker 4: gone to trial, he wouldn't have been arrested. I believe
Speaker 4: knowing that that's happened is amazing. In the last two
Speaker 4: and a half years since the podcast came out, I
Speaker 4: guess we've just been watching it go through the courts,
Speaker 4: and I know that Chris has been doing everything possible
Speaker 4: to try and get it stopped.
Speaker 5: So he went to all the courts, all the.
Speaker 4: Levels of law don't know courts in Australia to try
Speaker 4: and get this stopped because he for various reasons, but
Speaker 4: one of them was because he didn't believe he could
Speaker 4: get a fair trial because of the publicity from the podcast.
Speaker 2: What were some of the other reasons that he had
Speaker 2: put forward to try and stop it going to trial.
Speaker 4: So there was the publicity, and I think he also
Speaker 4: said that because it had taken forty years to get
Speaker 4: to this point, that he couldn't get a fair trial
Speaker 4: because a lot of the evidence that could have been
Speaker 4: gotten from forty years ago, phone.
Speaker 5: Records, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4: People's memories weren't now as reliable forty years on as
Speaker 4: they would have been back then.
Speaker 1: So when the podcast came to fruition, what was that
Speaker 1: like for your family and how involved were you? Was
Speaker 1: every single thing run by you? Was everything? Okay? Did
Speaker 1: you get to okavery episode and get to put your
Speaker 1: edits in saying well, I don't think that's actually correct
Speaker 1: or I'd like to swap this.
Speaker 3: Did you guys have a very active say?
Speaker 1: No, not at all, not at all the surprising.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think Mom and Dud started the process
Speaker 4: with Headley in November twenty seventeen, and the episode had
Speaker 4: started coming out in May twenty eighteen. They trusted Headley implicitly,
Speaker 4: but he was doing the episodes week by week. It
Speaker 4: wasn't like he sat down and he did the whole
Speaker 4: series in one He was going week by week. So
Speaker 4: every week when an episode will come out, we wouldn't know.
Speaker 5: What was in it. We wouldn't know who'd interviewed.
Speaker 4: We were learning things along with everyone else that was
Speaker 4: listening to the podcast, So it was definitely quite an experience.
Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, even the person who I'm
Speaker 2: guessing may have been the most affected by this. Did
Speaker 2: your grandma get to listen through all of this? Has
Speaker 2: she been able to listen back to the podcast?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: She unfortunately passed away in two thousand and one, so
Speaker 4: she's not here to see any of this.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 4: She would, I think, be quite blown away by this
Speaker 4: whole thing, because she's just a quite humble, trusting lady.
Speaker 2: But also just having closure. That's the thing you live
Speaker 2: with for so long, is not knowing what happened to
Speaker 2: your daughter. Yeah, not knowing if they walked away, and
Speaker 2: not knowing if they know how or why. And I
Speaker 2: guess it's so sad that she didn't receive that in
Speaker 2: her life time.
Speaker 5: It is very sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've just been in court and you've been sitting
Speaker 1: right behind Chris. You've been very, very involved, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what that was like to be so
Speaker 1: close to somebody that took someone literally from your family.
Speaker 1: But what was that like the last I don't know, five, ten,
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Have you ever had any contact with him
Speaker 1: or when did it cut off for your family as well?
Speaker 1: When was the realization that we understand you were a
Speaker 1: loved part of our family, but something's not right now
Speaker 1: and we're going to cut that.
Speaker 4: It was Chris's decision to do that, and it happened
Speaker 4: not long after Linn disappeared. It still sounds strange for
Speaker 4: me to say that she was murdered. I know that's
Speaker 4: now obviously the reality of the situation, but it's still
Speaker 4: strange for you to say that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So he cut off contact really not long after that,
Speaker 4: and when he moved to Queensland that was absolutely it.
Speaker 4: My name was devastated because it meant that she didn't
Speaker 4: have the relationship that she wanted with her grandkids either.
Speaker 1: So what was it like sitting behind him in court
Speaker 1: when you finally finally got to this point it was
Speaker 1: finally go time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So the first day I saw him was one of
Speaker 4: the first days of the trial, so nervous because I
Speaker 4: didn't know if he'd know me, or what his reaction
Speaker 4: would be to some of the family being.
Speaker 5: In the court. So I was quite nervous, but.
Speaker 4: Seeing him, He's an old man and he just didn't
Speaker 4: seem to really know what was going on, so it
Speaker 4: was quite unthreatening, I suppose, And I guess given that
Speaker 4: I'd been in the same room with him for you know,
Speaker 4: when you're in the same room with someone for ten weeks,
Speaker 4: I guess you kind of get used to their presence,
Speaker 4: regardless of the fact that he is now a convicted murderer.
Speaker 2: You know what the most frustrating thing, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: your family has experienced this, is the fact that he
Speaker 2: got to live out his life and I know that
Speaker 2: there's justice and there's so much closure that comes with
Speaker 2: the fact that there is a guilty verdict, but that
Speaker 2: he got to live out so much of his life
Speaker 2: without any repercussions out there in Queensland, you know, building
Speaker 2: a new life.
Speaker 1: Was there Renee a key piece of evidence that was
Speaker 1: provided that you feel was really the piece of evidence
Speaker 1: that got this verdict over the line? Was there something
Speaker 1: that was so definitive it couldn't be excused or do
Speaker 1: you think it really was just a culmination of a
Speaker 1: bit of everything.
Speaker 5: I think it was a bit of everything.
Speaker 4: There were obviously quite a few bits of information that
Speaker 4: were quite damning, like the fact that he was leaving
Speaker 4: love notes in schoolgirls' bags and a lot of stuff
Speaker 4: around the babysitter. I don't think we're supposed to name
Speaker 4: her or probably talk about her too much based on
Speaker 4: an upcoming trial that's about to happen. But yeah, there
Speaker 4: was just a lot of circumstantial evidence. And the judge
Speaker 4: said himself, if they'd have taken each of those pieces
Speaker 4: of information individually, they didn't really mean a lot. But
Speaker 4: when you put them all together, they really built a
Speaker 4: solid case.
Speaker 2: Can you explain to us now, now that Chris Dawson
Speaker 2: has received a guilty sentence, has there actually been any
Speaker 2: sentencing that's followed yet, Like, do you know what his
Speaker 2: punishment will be for the crime?
Speaker 5: We don't know yet.
Speaker 4: We have a sentencing hearing set for the tenth of November,
Speaker 4: and in that sentencing hearing he will be giving victim
Speaker 4: impact statements and that will help the judge decide what
Speaker 4: his sentence will actually end up being. As far as
Speaker 4: we know, within a couple of days of that sentencing hearing,
Speaker 4: his actual sentencing will be given.
Speaker 1: And right now, your family petitioning for changes in the
Speaker 1: law in New South Wales that you're calling Linn's law.
Speaker 1: What is Linn's Law about? Tell us about that, because
Speaker 1: I feel like this is something everyone needs to get
Speaker 1: on board with and really make happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Linn's Law, it's calling for a nobody no
Speaker 4: parole law to be introduced in New South Wales. So
Speaker 4: something that we weren't necessarily aware of is that this
Speaker 4: is not law in Australia.
Speaker 5: So we were just doing.
Speaker 4: Our best to get through this trial not really expecting
Speaker 4: either outcome. But once we've got a guilty verdict, literally
Speaker 4: the night of the guilty verdict, we were made aware
Speaker 4: that well, nobody no parole laws are a precedent in
Speaker 4: the majority of the states and territories in Australia, New
Speaker 4: South Wales.
Speaker 5: Isn't one of them. So this means if someone's.
Speaker 4: Convicted of a nobody murder in New South Wales, they
Speaker 4: can serve a certain period of their sentence and when
Speaker 4: they're aut for parole, they can be considered for release
Speaker 4: without ever disclosing where that body might be. So we
Speaker 4: feel like it's really important that New South Wales comes
Speaker 4: into line with the rest of the country to make
Speaker 4: these people so about their full sentences if they're not
Speaker 4: willing to be forthcoming with where a body is so
Speaker 4: it might help a victim's family.
Speaker 1: So have they asked Chris point blank where the body
Speaker 1: is and he has refused to say? Or is he
Speaker 1: still just saying he's innocent or is he saying he
Speaker 1: doesn't remember? What's his answer to that?
Speaker 4: He is still pleading his innocence. I think it's been
Speaker 4: forty years and he has fully convinced himself that he
Speaker 4: didn't actually do this.
Speaker 1: With a verdict coming back as guilty, how did that
Speaker 1: make you and your family feel? We took no joy
Speaker 1: in seeing him taken away because he is an older gentleman.
Speaker 1: But I also think anyone with an ounce of human
Speaker 1: decency about them is not going to take any pleasure
Speaker 1: in seeing someone taken away to jail. I don't think
Speaker 1: that that's that's not something we took any pleasure in.
Speaker 2: I think that there's so many people who listened to
Speaker 2: the podcast who were that they're that step removed from
Speaker 2: where you are. Obviously with your family. I think there
Speaker 2: are a lot of people who saw the news and
Speaker 2: took joy in the fact that there has been justice
Speaker 2: for Lynnette, and I know that that's probably a really
Speaker 2: challenging thing to say because you're so close to it,
Speaker 2: and you know you have wonderful empathy. But I think
Speaker 2: you know that I definitely read that and I was like,
Speaker 2: fucking finally, like I felt that for you and for
Speaker 2: your family, and I know everybody else across Australia who
Speaker 2: has really just I mean, I think that everybody listened
Speaker 2: to that podcast and took Lynette on as their loss.
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted justice for her, and it's so incredible that
Speaker 2: that has finally been served. Do you think that Chris
Speaker 2: will ever tell your family what happened?
Speaker 5: No, I don't think.
Speaker 4: I mean, it would be great if you would, but
Speaker 4: I ultimately don't think that will be the case. But
Speaker 4: I guess if we're able to get this law through parliament,
Speaker 4: then will at least have a character dangle.
Speaker 2: What's the next steps now? Is Chris able to appeal
Speaker 2: the verdict? Is he able to challenge this another judge?
Speaker 2: What is the next step?
Speaker 4: So as far as we understand, after sentencing is done
Speaker 4: he is able to appeal, the process could take multiple years.
Speaker 4: I also believe that given it was a judge alone trial,
Speaker 4: it will be a lot harder to appeal because the
Speaker 4: judge did a very nice job at pairing the case
Speaker 4: back to its simplest form and convicting on something that's
Speaker 4: quite hard to I guess appeal against which we.
Speaker 5: Knew he would do.
Speaker 4: We knew that whatever his reasonings were, they would be
Speaker 4: as water tight as possible, because I guess no one
Speaker 4: wants to be told we don't agree with your judgment.
Speaker 4: So he's done his best possible job to try and
Speaker 4: seal that up as tightly as possible.
Speaker 1: So what is next and what can we do? How
Speaker 1: can everyone get behind Lynn's Law and making this happen?
Speaker 4: Okay, So we have set up a petition on change
Speaker 4: dot org and it's just to petition the new South
Speaker 4: Wales Premier Dominique Perite and the new South Wales Attorney
Speaker 4: General Mark Speakman to try and get this law through parliament.
Speaker 4: So we're trying to get as many signatures possible and
Speaker 4: if anyone wants to sign it, you can go to
Speaker 4: change dot org and just search for Lin's Law and
Speaker 4: it should pop up and hopefully we'll be able to
Speaker 4: put it before Parliament in the next little while.
Speaker 1: Well, Renee, we have such an amazing and very active
Speaker 1: listenership we had the life is here really want to
Speaker 1: get behind this kind of stuff. So I hope every
Speaker 1: single person listening right now know that it seems so
Speaker 1: small to each person to go and sign one petition,
Speaker 1: but if every single person goes and does it, this
Speaker 1: is how we get changed. So Laura and I going
Speaker 1: to do it straight away.
Speaker 2: And I think I think for so many people just
Speaker 2: on that brute, like so many people see petitions and
Speaker 2: think what can I what can my one signature do?
Speaker 2: What impact is this going to have? But collectively it
Speaker 2: can have a huge impact. And for every single person
Speaker 2: that's ever lost a family member to domestic violence or
Speaker 2: to any violence and have not had that closure that
Speaker 2: comes from knowing exactly where they are and the opportunity
Speaker 2: to lay them to rest, we just think that this
Speaker 2: will create so much change for so many families. And Renee,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for everything that you were doing
Speaker 2: for your time today and also from us and to
Speaker 2: you like it's been. Like I said, it was such
Speaker 2: a moving and incredible podcast to listen to, but this
Speaker 2: is your actual life. It's not just entertainment, and we're
Speaker 2: so sorry to your family for the loss that they've experienced.
Speaker 1: I know there's fifty two million people around the world
Speaker 1: right now rejoicing at this verdict and completely on your
Speaker 1: family's side.
Speaker 4: Oh, we definitely feel it. We definitely feel it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we never finish an episode without our
Speaker 1: suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light
Speaker 1: of the week. Laura Burn, do you want to kick
Speaker 1: it off? What is your suck this week?
Speaker 2: My suck for the week. Actually, Oh, it's kind of
Speaker 2: a sweet and it's kind of suck. This last week
Speaker 2: just passed me. My sister and my mum were filming
Speaker 2: something for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only fans.
Speaker 2: Just we've got this new family ownly fans thing that
Speaker 2: we started.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It was weird seeing my family like that. So that's
Speaker 2: my suck. We were feel I'm being a reality TV
Speaker 2: show an episode. But it's been up with the Burns, Johnson's,
Speaker 2: with the Vacanski's. We've got a lot of last names.
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of last names in our household. No,
Speaker 2: it was something for my mum and that's all I
Speaker 2: can tell you about it at the moment because it's
Speaker 2: pretty top secret. But it's not a reality TV show
Speaker 2: that you would normally do in terms of it being
Speaker 2: super fun or relationship. Ye, it was actually a really
Speaker 2: difficult week with my family.
Speaker 1: Does sound like it's been a pretty tough week.
Speaker 2: It dragged up a lot of past family stuff. But
Speaker 2: the reason why we did it was for my mum
Speaker 2: because she really needed some help with some stuff that's
Speaker 2: been going on in her life.
Speaker 1: And look, I know it sounds super fuck you were
Speaker 1: hooking us.
Speaker 2: I know it sounds super cryptic, but it's been a
Speaker 2: very very big, emotional family week and that was last week.
Speaker 2: But the end of it, and I'm going to say
Speaker 2: that the sweet is also something I can't tell you
Speaker 2: too much about. But basically, the end of this episode,
Speaker 2: this filming and stuff meant that my mum really got
Speaker 2: her life back on track.
Speaker 3: And I'm super proud of her.
Speaker 2: And we've had some really full on times as a family,
Speaker 2: but I think, ALTI, what we experienced last week is
Speaker 2: going to be incredible for my mum. And I'm so
Speaker 2: sorry I can't share more about it, but I will
Speaker 2: as soon as i'm able to, and I'll give you
Speaker 2: more of the backstory and context around what it is
Speaker 2: that we've been doing as soon as I'm able to
Speaker 2: too well.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see it because I know it
Speaker 1: has been a big week for you. And if you
Speaker 1: want to wipe your snot on my sleeve like I
Speaker 1: have done to you in the past, my sleeve will
Speaker 1: be here. Just give your hands up, my book, put
Speaker 1: a jumper.
Speaker 3: They are coming.
Speaker 1: Ah. Okay, my suck this week. My sister is getting
Speaker 1: married in four weeks.
Speaker 3: That is not the suck.
Speaker 1: But I have been a bit late to the party
Speaker 1: with my bride's maid's dress. I finally got it and
Speaker 1: it just wasn't right like I got online, had tried.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't the right color, it wasn't quite the
Speaker 1: right shape. And you know, Sherry's been on my back
Speaker 1: a little bit, saying you're leaving this really late. I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. You know me always come through
Speaker 1: the goods, And now I'm sort of panicking.
Speaker 3: That I haven't come through with the goods.
Speaker 1: But it's okay. I have ordered another one and it
Speaker 1: will be here any day now, and I'm fingers cross
Speaker 1: that's going to be great.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be Also, Sherry suck when she listens
Speaker 2: to this and hears that you haven't, like it's like
Speaker 2: three weeks away or something.
Speaker 1: Well, I wanted to leave it. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: I'd be feeling or what vibe. Because Sherry's giving me
Speaker 1: free rein right, She's like she has a few very
Speaker 1: loose guidelines, but she's pretty much said, just run a by,
Speaker 1: find some things you like, run and buy me. But
Speaker 1: she's very open because I'm the only bridesmaid, Like, it's
Speaker 1: just me. I'm the maid of honor and that's it.
Speaker 1: So she's like, just wear something you're happy and comfortable
Speaker 1: in and she'll okay it, of course. But anyway, my
Speaker 1: suite was that I got to go and see my
Speaker 1: whole family. We all got together in Port Macquarie for
Speaker 1: like it was just one day, but it was just amazing.
Speaker 1: I didn't do any work on that one day. We
Speaker 1: did archery, we did painting, we did walks and runs.
Speaker 3: We had a very active twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Actually, mind you, my dad's super into archery, so he's
Speaker 1: been like training us to be archers, which is absolutely.
Speaker 3: Heilloo weirdest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: It's the Hockley family with nothing straightforward.
Speaker 2: Where do you go to do archery? Where does one
Speaker 2: go and archer.
Speaker 1: Well, you can go and do it anywhere, but we
Speaker 1: have it all at home. We have a whole setup.
Speaker 2: You sit in your backyard and you with bows and
Speaker 2: arrow That's what you're doing on a Hockley family reunion.
Speaker 2: You have a couple of tins of canned beer and
Speaker 2: then go on do some marcherie.
Speaker 1: I know you think I'm joking. That is exactly what
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 2: Where do you go like you're from Paul McQuary, You're
Speaker 2: not like Kickfield?
Speaker 1: What do I need to take you guys on girls trip?
Speaker 1: We'll go to Paul McQuary on intradution to the family
Speaker 1: and you can become one of us for the weekend.
Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. Who man is it from? Usk? Guys,
Speaker 1: Please keep all your questions coming in for Ask Uncut
Speaker 1: any embarrassing.
Speaker 2: Stories and jump onto the website. It's Life Uncut podcast
Speaker 2: dot com dot au. You can get yourself some tickets
Speaker 2: for the Sydney Live Show. I know we've been saying
Speaker 2: it every week, but there's truly only a few tickets left.
Speaker 2: And then you can also jump on there and get
Speaker 2: a merch if you haven't gotten yourself a jumper, yet
Speaker 2: those are also available on the website.
Speaker 1: And you know the drill. Tell your Mum to your dad,
Speaker 1: tell you Doug to your friends and shit, And I
Speaker 1: love because
Speaker 4: The Kamata were bamed kaabaa