1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Friday, 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: the thirteenth of February. I'm Sam Kazlowski. 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm belief at Simon's Friday the thirteenth. Isn't that spooky 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: or unlucky or something? 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: An unlucky day? 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: An unlucky day, but not what we're talking about today. 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: No, but also some bad luck. On Wednesday night, Liberal 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: MP Angus Taylor stepped down from his shadow cabinet position 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: as speculation about a leadership challenge against Susan Lee continued. Taylor, 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: who was serving as shadow Defense Minister, is considered the 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: top contender to replace Lee, and today the Liberal Party 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: is expected to hold a leadership vote between these two politicians, 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: with both sides maintaining they have the numbers to win. 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: On today's podcast, we're going to break down what happened 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: and what this all means for the Liberal Party. 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: Okay, Sam, So, today we are talking about Angus Taylor, 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: someone who the Deli O's office is quite familiar with. 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: I have interviewed him. He has been sitting in the 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: exact chat are sitting in right now, But for anyone 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: who is not as familiar with him as we are, 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: do you want to just explain who is Angus Taylor? 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: How long has he been a politician? For all of 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: that stuff. 26 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: So, Angus Taylor is a federal politician. He's the Member 27 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: for Hume in Sydney's Southwest and he's been in that 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: position since twenty thirteen, so it's his thirteenth year in 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: the Parliament. And he's part of the Liberal Party, so 30 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: the same party as recent leaders Susan Lee obviously. Then 31 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: we've got Peter Dunnon before that, Scott Morrison before that. 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: He's held multiple ministerial positions over the years. He's been 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: involved in energy and industry and most recently until this week, 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: he was shadowed Defense Minister. Now some context on how 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: we got here. So after the coalition lost the May election, 36 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: Peter Dutton lost his seat and the position of Liberal 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: Party Leader, which would then be the Coalition leader, which 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: would then be the Opposition leader. That seat was empty 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: and so there was a leadership ballot and it was 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: between Taylor and Susan Lee who both put their hands 41 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: up to be leader of the party and opposition leader. 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: After the loss and Susan Lee won that vote. Although 43 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: it was really close, she won it twenty nine votes 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: to twenty five and that was historic because she became 45 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: the first female leader of the Liberal Party in its history. 46 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: So it's been nearly a year now since that election, 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: and like you said, the Coalition lost that election and 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: it was quite a historic loss. And I would say 49 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: since then they've been in this real soul searching era 50 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: of trying to figure out how to win back Australia's 51 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: vote and they had Susan Lee leading the party that 52 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: according to polling, hasn't really gone well, right. 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 2: No, And I mean it's always really interesting to think 54 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: about the fact that after a loss, and even more 55 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: so after such a historic loss, there's always this statement 56 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: from the losing party of we're going to do some 57 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: investigations into why we lost and produce a report. 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about this, maybe you were just 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: about to say this. My understanding of why that review 60 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: hasn't come out yet is because Peter Dutton, who was 61 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: the leader of the Liberal Party in the lead up 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: to the last election, says that that review is defamatory 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: about him. Have you seen. 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: That that is really I haven't seen those headlines. Yeah, 65 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: that's really interesting. But I think you're right. We haven't 66 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: got that review yet, so all of this is happening 67 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: while we're still waiting for that review to be made public, 68 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: which it often is in most parts made public. But 69 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: I think the big thing that has changed since the 70 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: May loss is the polls. So the most recent news 71 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: poll shows that primary support for Pauline Hansen's One Nation 72 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: has surged, now ahead of the Liberal Party the coalition. 73 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: I mean in the last poll there on eighteen percent, 74 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: So that's an extraordinary result. For context, we're talking about 75 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party getting less than one in five voters 76 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: to support them, and if you think about what you 77 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: need to contest a federal election, they're a long way 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: from where they need to be. It's the worst position 79 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: in the polls that the party has been since its 80 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: formation in nineteen forty four. 81 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: Every time I see those polls. This is a whole 82 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: other podcast, but I always think this idea that Australia 83 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: is a two party system. These poles are really challenging 84 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: that ideology. 85 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the political landscape has certainly shifted, and I think 86 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: this week's events probably cement that assumption. And I think 87 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: the other big development in the nine months has been 88 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: these two moments of party disunity between the Nationals and 89 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, the two parts of the coalition. And 90 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: as recently as last month, the Nationals broke from the 91 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: Liberals when voting on a bill to reform hate speech laws, 92 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: a bill proposed in the aftermath of the Bondai terror attack. 93 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: Three Nationals MPs actually resigned from Susan Lee's shadow cabinet 94 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: over it because they broke what's called shadow ca cabinet solidarity. 95 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: Okay, shadow cabinet solidarity is quite a jargony term, but 96 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: it is a really crucial one here because it's kind 97 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: of what triggered this whole mess starting. Do you want 98 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: to just explain what exactly is shadow cabinet solidarity. 99 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, So what we're talking about here is really the 100 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: internal rules that MPs sign up for when they're joining 101 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: a party. So in Labor, the rule that you sign 102 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 2: up to is we're always going to vote with the party. 103 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: Now the Coalition doesn't have that rule. They have more 104 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: flexibility and say that MPs can vote how they want 105 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: on a particular issue. But if you're in shadow cabinet, 106 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: so a leadership position in that party. You do have 107 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: to vote with the leadership, and that is what we're 108 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: talking about when we talk about shadow cabinet solidarity. And 109 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: so when the Nationals and those three Nationals MPs broke 110 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: that rule, they had to resign from shadow cabinet and 111 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: it actually got so bad that loss of solidarity that 112 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: that's what led to the split. And it's almost that 113 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: a show of a lack of faith in the leader 114 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: of the cabinet being the opposition. 115 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: Leader, which is Susan Lee. And that's kind of how 116 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: it relates to this whole story about Angus Taylor now 117 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: challenging Susan Lee's leadership. It's because she lost the support 118 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: of the National MPs who quit and they're a key 119 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: part of the coalition and being with the Nationals is 120 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: the only way for the Liberals to be in government exactly. 121 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: I hope that all makes sense. Yeah, But then they 122 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: did patch things up, they did the Liberal Party in 123 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: the National. 124 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 2: Part so they got back together. They're one party again. 125 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: They're still in opposition, they're still lagging in the polls. 126 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 2: And to kind of kickstart the process of challenging Susan 127 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: Lee for the leadership, the first thing that Angus Taylor 128 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: needed to do was to step down from that shadow 129 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 2: cabinet to not breach the rules of voting against his leader. 130 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: And so he did that by standing up at a 131 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 2: press conference on Wednesday evening, and he did not mince 132 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: words here. He said, the Liberal Party is at the 133 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: word position it has been since nineteen forty four. That 134 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: is a confronting reality and we cannot ignore it. And 135 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: then he went further and he said he doesn't believe 136 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: Lee is in a position to be able to lead 137 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: the party as it needs to be led from here. 138 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: But he stopped at actually announcing the leadership challenge that 139 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: he was about to mount. 140 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Okay, and we're going to get to the moment that 141 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: he did announce his leadership challenge, but first he is 142 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: a quick message from today's sponsor. Okay. So then it 143 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: is Thursday morning, yesterday morning, and we get a strong 144 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: sense that Angus Taylor could have quite a bit of 145 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: support here because there was a string of other resignations 146 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: from fellow front benches of the Liberal Party. 147 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: Right exactly, and so the dynamics at play there was 148 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: one resignation from a shadow cabinet still can give a 149 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: leader permission to lead because the shadow cabinet is made 150 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: up of dozens. Now when there are many resignations, so 151 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: on Thursday there were at least five by about nine am. 152 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: That then gives a strong sense that the opposition leader 153 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: didn't have the confidence of her cabinet and things needed 154 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: to go to a leadership spill. 155 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: Can I just pause you. Every time I think of 156 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: leadership spill, I think of Kevin Rodd and Julia Gillard. 157 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: It's almost identical to what happened here. 158 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: So if anyone remembers that, I'm sure. I mean, it 159 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: was kind of that period where Australia's Prime minister was 160 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: really changing like every year. Like when Kevin Rudd and 161 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: Julia Gillard, there were a number of different times where 162 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: they had leadership challenges against each other. That was with 163 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: the Labor Party. Now this is with the Liberal Party. 164 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was only last week that there 165 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: was a leadership spill with the Nationals Party. That was 166 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: a different type of spill though, because somebody said I 167 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: want to challenge David Little Proud for the leadership of 168 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 2: the Nationals. He didn't have the numbers, so it wasn't 169 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: really a contest like the one that we've seen this week. 170 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: It's a brutal game, though. 171 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: It's a brutal game, and you know, there are many 172 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: spills that parties go into a room and come out 173 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: with the same leader they walked in with. Here, though, 174 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: it seems that there was some real kind of split 175 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: disunity in the party, and so two backers of Angus 176 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: Taylor formally delivered a request for a party room meeting, 177 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: and that is the pretext that's needed for a spill. 178 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 2: They delivered that at nine am. It's interesting to note 179 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: that Angus Taylor didn't deliver that, and that's very conventional. 180 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: So it's never the person who's running for the leadership 181 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: position that would deliver that sort of thing. Instead, it's 182 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: normally his backers or her backers. It's normally the key supporters, 183 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: the back room men and women. They're often called the 184 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: faceless men and women they're often called. So it all 185 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: played out quite conventionally, this leadership spill, and that, of 186 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: course then leads us to where we are now. 187 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: Okay, and so if Taylor does win this vote, what 188 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: would that mean for the Liberal Party? 189 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a significant shift at play. So 190 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 2: Taylor is seen as representing the party's more conservative wing. 191 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 2: In his resignation speech, he said the party needs strong leadership, 192 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: clear direction, and a courageous focus on our values. And 193 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: he named two priorities, not specifics really, but protecting our 194 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 2: way of life and restoring our standard of living. So 195 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: I would say that's kind of a cultural and a 196 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: socioeconomic lean and also really looking at cost of living 197 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: that we can kind of infer from that sort of language. 198 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: Which isn't necessarily a conservative approach those specific words that 199 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: he mentioned, But we just know from Angus Taylor, from 200 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: all of his previous statements. 201 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: Even in his interview with you yes, and. 202 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: His previous approach to politics, we know that he is 203 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: a lot more conservative than Susan Lee, who was considered 204 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: to be more moderate within the Liberal Party exactly. 205 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: But I think the key question here remains whether it 206 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: will lead to a change in those polling numbers, and 207 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: if it leads to a significant deviation in the path 208 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: in the polls that the Liberal Party is currently on, 209 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 2: or whether the problems facing the party do deeper than 210 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 2: just who's at the head of it. 211 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: Never a dull day in politics, Sam, Thank you for 212 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: taking us through that. Thanks Billy, and thank you so 213 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: much for listening to this episode of The Daily Os. 214 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: There will be a lot of news today around this 215 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: so if you want to keep up today, you can 216 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: check out the Daily Oz's instagram, where we will be 217 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: posting as it happens. We'll also be back this afternoon 218 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: with your evening headlines, but until then, we hope you 219 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: have a lovely day. My name is Lily Madden and 220 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. 221 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: The Daily Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 222 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 223 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay 224 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 225 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: past and present.