1
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

2
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers, Now.

3
00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 2: Okay, you've got neurodivirgent kids. They don't want to go

4
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 2: to school. School is hard. They feel like they're not confident,

5
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,120
Speaker 2: they feel like they get stuff wrong all the time.

6
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,599
Speaker 2: Socially things are awkward. Life is hard. Life is really

7
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 2: really hard if you're on neurodiverse God. This is doctor

8
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 2: Justin Colson my guests today, I'm Happy Families Podcast to

9
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 2: wonderful friends too, brilliant thinkers and authors of the brand

10
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 2: new book Out of the Box, a one stop guide

11
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 2: to navigating neurodivergence, Madonna King and Rebecca Sparrow, authors of

12
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 2: multiple books. So many things that we could talk about.

13
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,559
Speaker 2: We've got too much to discuss about the book, though,

14
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 2: So can I just leave the intro there and say

15
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 2: congratulations on your new book.

16
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 1: Thanks, justin, thank you, justin thank you.

17
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,840
Speaker 2: Got to know when you wrote this book about raising

18
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 2: neurodivergent kids, what stood out to you more than anything?

19
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,119
Speaker 2: I'll start with you, Madonna.

20
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: I think so many things. The thing that broke my

21
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,400
Speaker 1: heart though, is that we have girls, particularly going right

22
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 1: through school from prep to year twelve without being diagnosed,

23
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: because in a world where it is so important to

24
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 1: fit in, particularly in social media, they learn to mask

25
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: or camouflage their ADHD or autism to the point where

26
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: they mimic their friends. They learn when to laugh, they

27
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: learn what to wear rather than being themselves. And we

28
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,400
Speaker 1: say we put ourselves on the back and say, you know,

29
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: we're creating an equal world for our daughters, Well we ain't.

30
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,199
Speaker 1: When they are graduating from school and in that year

31
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: after school is one of the biggest times when our

32
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 1: neurodivergent girls are diagnosed, because their world implodes without those

33
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 1: structures at home and at school. There's many other things,

34
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: but that was the one that made me cry.

35
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 2: I really felt that as I was reading at Madonna,

36
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,120
Speaker 2: Let's go to the opposite of the spectrum Beck and

37
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 2: talking about girls who are now graduating school and discovering

38
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 2: that they're autistic or ADHD, you're raising neurodivergent kids much younger.

39
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 2: What was it about writing this book that you found

40
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 2: just stood out to you and was up in neon

41
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 2: lights for you.

42
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 3: Look, I think it's something that I've learnt myself justin

43
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 3: over the years with my own kids and it certainly

44
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 3: came through in the research, which is and it's a

45
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,559
Speaker 3: frustration that's sometimes what kids need are the smallest adjustments,

46
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 3: the smallest adjustments justin in class of movement breaks or

47
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 3: instructions written up on the board or whatever it is.

48
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:44,399
Speaker 3: And actually those adjustments usually benefit everybody in the class.

49
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So it's not like it's only for

50
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,080
Speaker 2: the neurodivergent kids, right, I mean, the neurotypical kids are

51
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 2: pretty happy to move their bodies and get their wiggles

52
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 2: out as well.

53
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it frustrates me. And I want to really

54
00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,519
Speaker 3: stress the point that there were amazing stories about fabulous

55
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 3: teachers and from teachers about the little clever things that

56
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 3: they were doing that they saw not only help the

57
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 3: neurodivergent child in their class, but actually all their classmates.

58
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,959
Speaker 3: But it upsets me when we heard stories of parents

59
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 3: who were so frustrated having to fight for the smallest

60
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 3: thing for their kids which would make a world of

61
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 3: difference and then have their child feeling more comfortable going

62
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 3: to school. So that broke my heart.

63
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 1: But at the.

64
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 3: Same time, when I did hear the positive stories from

65
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 3: teachers or from parents telling us about amazing teachers. That

66
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 3: was amazing.

67
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. One of the greatest challenges for

68
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 2: parents who are raising neurodivergent kids is what school does.

69
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 2: Here's my hypothesis, and I know that there are going

70
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 2: to be some blank spaces and some bits that have

71
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 2: been missed. But tell me how this sounds for you,

72
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 2: and then we'll start to feel in some blanks for

73
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 2: where I'm missing. The theory or the whole parenting paradigm

74
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 2: that I build all of the work that I do

75
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 2: on argues that we have three basic psychological needs, and

76
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 2: when we're in an environment that supports those needs, we

77
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 2: feel motivated, we feel well, life is good. Those needs

78
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 2: are we need to have great relationships, we need to

79
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 2: feel like we're competent, capable, and we need to have

80
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 2: a sense of choice in our lives. My sense is

81
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 2: that for most children neurotypical or neurodiverse, when they show

82
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 2: up at school, relationships can be tricky. They often feel

83
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 2: incompetent anyway, and they don't have a whole lot of

84
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 2: control because the school requires a standardized, structured approach. But

85
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 2: when you throw in your adversity, when you throw in ADHD, autism, anxiety,

86
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,039
Speaker 2: and any other justspraxicea, dyslexia, any other neurological or even

87
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 2: psychological challenges. Here, all of a sudden, relationships become even trickier.

88
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 2: Kids feel increasingly incompetent, and teachers, as a result of

89
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,680
Speaker 2: children perhaps not behaving as easily as they might otherwise

90
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 2: because of the challenges that they're having, teachers become more controlling.

91
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 2: Now I'm not throwing shade at teachers here. It makes sense.

92
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 2: They've got thirty kids to look after. If we can

93
00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,920
Speaker 2: find a way to support those three basic psychological needs,

94
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 2: we're going to go ninety ninety five percent of the way.

95
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 2: They're helping every child fit in Madonna. What's your response.

96
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 1: I would say that we need to look at the

97
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 1: teachers and the school system those needs absolutely, But when

98
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 1: teachers told us that their last professional development in this

99
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 1: area was twenty five years ago, and it was fifteen

100
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 1: minutes or someone had mentioned neurodivergence and they meant to

101
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,120
Speaker 1: look it up at some stage in the staff room,

102
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 1: there are beautiful teachers who are funding their own master's

103
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,559
Speaker 1: programs to try and understand this. The emails we're getting

104
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 1: from teachers to say, help us on this, we need

105
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 1: to be able to address this. How can they feel competent?

106
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 1: How can they have relations in class? How can they

107
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 1: feel safe and secure and included at school when the

108
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,160
Speaker 1: person leading the class doesn't have the time, the resources,

109
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 1: or less necessarily the training to do that. And so

110
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we can start with the kids,

111
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,280
Speaker 1: and that is really true and important and a parental

112
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 1: think and help there. But we also really need to

113
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,559
Speaker 1: hate teachers into our arms and say all right, what

114
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,800
Speaker 1: can we do that will?

115
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 3: You know?

116
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,359
Speaker 1: Beck said it helps everyone a rising tide, lifts or

117
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: boats and you know those things that teachers can be

118
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 1: trained to do that didn't realize, you know. So for example,

119
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: if I hear another story about a reward chart, We've

120
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 1: got stories of neurodivergent kids soiling their pants because they

121
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,039
Speaker 1: knew they couldn't do the task and therefore they would

122
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 1: be held responsible by everyone. So there are some really

123
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 1: basic lists of dos and don'ts. And I think South

124
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,440
Speaker 1: Australia has a Minister for autism. Why can't we actually

125
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 1: in our universities and our policies and in our parliaments

126
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 1: have people who understand that up to forty percent of

127
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: our classes and neurodivergent, because that's what teachers say up

128
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: to forty percent, and that's not even in specialist classes.

129
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 1: All right now, I'm just going to climb down off

130
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: that box and hand over to you. Beck.

131
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 3: I agree with everything that you said, and I think

132
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,839
Speaker 3: it's interesting, Madonna, and you did this visit. I didn't.

133
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 3: But if we look at you know, you went to

134
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,920
Speaker 3: a school on the Gold Coast that had set up

135
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 3: a campus for neurodivergent children.

136
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 2: Is everyone just next to the manual college? Yeah? Yeah,

137
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 2: I've done some work down there, and I just I

138
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 2: love what they're doing so important and they get great

139
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 2: results because these kids feel so good. They feel competent,

140
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: they feel like they've got good relationships, and they have

141
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,320
Speaker 2: a sense of control over their lives.

142
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: But it goes to what Beck says, This doesn't cost

143
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 1: money in the sense of just alerting them that there's

144
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 1: a fire drill the next day, or letting them pick

145
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,080
Speaker 1: the noise of the fire drill, or allowing them to

146
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,480
Speaker 1: have breaks, or not moving every forty minutes, have the

147
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,640
Speaker 1: teacher moving, that's a big one.

148
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 3: I think having the kids in the same classroom and

149
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 3: the teachers. You know, certainly in primary school and being

150
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 3: are high school, the teachers.

151
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 1: Move yeah on to the kids, so they're lost and

152
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 1: they're confused, and there's noise and Justin and I was

153
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 1: at that school when they were told they could be

154
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: picked up early that Thursday, on Easter Thursday, there was

155
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: uproar the only time I saw it because they did

156
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: not want to leave school early. Imagine if we could

157
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: do that in our classes across the country. One is saying,

158
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 1: but it's in my contract, I'm here till three o'clock.

159
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: The other is saying, no, I don't want to. Can

160
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: I stay to tell three? And you know, we talk

161
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: about a lack of engagement, We talk about behavior. We

162
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: need to get out from under our rock and say,

163
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: if we have another education review into the behavior of

164
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 1: our children, it's just another five million dollar wasted. When

165
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 1: we know what the answer is, let's just do it.

166
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 2: Beck. I wanted to come to you for a sec

167
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 2: because you're literally raising kids who are living with these

168
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 2: struggles on top of the work that you've done with Madonna.

169
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 2: In terms of researching with this book, and I know

170
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 2: that you spoke to a couple of thousand Australians, including

171
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,680
Speaker 2: experts and parents, and teachers and people who are living

172
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 2: this on a day to day basis, what would you

173
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 2: say to a parent who's saying, I just want my

174
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,440
Speaker 2: I taught my kids to feel good at school and

175
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 2: they don't. What would the first steps be to help

176
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 2: them to make progress? If they've got if they're autistic,

177
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 2: maybe they've got AUDIOHD, they've got both, and maybe they've

178
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 2: got a pretty challenging profile here, what are those first

179
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 2: steps to just smooth the way and make things feel better?

180
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: Question?

181
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 3: Justin so, I think that what I would be saying

182
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 3: is the first thing is hopefully not to see the

183
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 3: school as the enemy. When parents can work in partnership

184
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 3: with teachers and with schools, it is a much better

185
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 3: experience for everybody. And this isn't just for neurodivergent children.

186
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 3: This is for our children, all of our kids right

187
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 3: across the po to work with the school in a partnership.

188
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 3: And I think part of it, and what we've done

189
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 3: in the book is we said, yes, we said tell

190
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 3: us what tell us what teachers or schools are doing wrong. Equally,

191
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 3: we said to teachers, what do you want parents to know?

192
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 3: What are they doing that is hindering their own child's progress,

193
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,679
Speaker 3: So having respect for the teacher in your communication with them.

194
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,520
Speaker 3: Of course, we've got tips in the book about advocating

195
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,160
Speaker 3: for your child, So that is the first thing I

196
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 3: would be saying is working with the school, having that

197
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 3: good relationship. But look, I'm going to be someone who says,

198
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 3: if it is not working for your child and you've

199
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 3: and the school's trying, and you're trying, this is why

200
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,680
Speaker 3: we're seeing a rise in home schooling.

201
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 2: Justin.

202
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 3: Look, I'm in this situation right and so far my

203
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 3: kid's school has been amazing. I've got one of my

204
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 3: kids starting high school next year. I do not know

205
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 3: how it's going to go. And the fact is, where

206
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 3: am I supposed to send my child? Where he's very bright?

207
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 3: But do you think he can sit down and write

208
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,720
Speaker 3: an essay? He cannot. He cannot sit down and do

209
00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 3: a timed essay? Justin where am I meant to see

210
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:06,640
Speaker 3: and him and I am one of thousands of parents

211
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 3: are going you know, sometimes I think, and I'm going

212
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,160
Speaker 3: to be very general here, but with some you'rerodivergent children

213
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 3: who are very bright, the schools are very happy to

214
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 3: take them on when they think they're going to improve

215
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 3: their naplan and their ata right, Well, if you want that,

216
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 3: you better also step up with the accommodations. Okay, because

217
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 3: these kids think and work differently, and we have schools

218
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,079
Speaker 3: that are still in some ways in the dark ages.

219
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,400
Speaker 3: Other aspects of society are moving forward with how we

220
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 3: accommodate and work with and change things when you're a

221
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 3: divergent people, except schools. There are schools who are dragging

222
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 3: their feet. And so I would just say, if you

223
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 3: have tried everything, if you've been working with the school

224
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 3: and your child is miserable, it is not worth it,

225
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 3: whether that's bullying or your child is just wilting before

226
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 3: your eyes in the school environment, then maybe And look,

227
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 3: that's I say that. I know it is a luxury

228
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,079
Speaker 3: to say to somebody to homeschool because not every parent

229
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 3: is that in that situation. But I mean, I feel

230
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,600
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of parents out there who feel

231
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 3: like I don't know what to do.

232
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, two things on that. I want to be sensitive

233
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,559
Speaker 2: and at the same time, I want to be truthful.

234
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,319
Speaker 2: We've got kids who really struggled at school, and we

235
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,080
Speaker 2: also have u diversity in our family. And as you've spoken,

236
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 2: there are two things that have come up for me.

237
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 2: Number one, the willingness to work with the school is crucial.

238
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 2: I just I can't emphasize what you've said there as

239
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 2: the first step. That's the foundation. When I created a

240
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 2: big ruckus a few years ago by talking about how

241
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 2: kids shouldn't be doing homework in primary school because there's

242
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 2: no research to support that, a lot of people got

243
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 2: pretty upset about it. But in the letter that we

244
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 2: wrote to the teachers around this, well going back fifteen

245
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 2: years now, but in the letter that I wrote to

246
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,000
Speaker 2: the teachers, the wording that I used was something along

247
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 2: the lines of how much you love my kids and

248
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,560
Speaker 2: how much you care about their educational futures. I know

249
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 2: that you really want to be there for them. So

250
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 2: we're on the same team here, and that's a really

251
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 2: nice way to bring in. We're dealing with the challenge

252
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 2: here and we'd like to see if we can problem

253
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 2: solve it together. I just wanted to put some I guess,

254
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 2: some flesh on the bones of your suggestion. The second

255
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,680
Speaker 2: thing that you highlighted around homeschool. We're homeschooling two of

256
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 2: our kids, and it's precisely because of the reasons that

257
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 2: you've mentioned Unfortunately, as much as we have tried to

258
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 2: work with schools, it hasn't been working. And there are

259
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,640
Speaker 2: stories from here in Queensland, where all three of us

260
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 2: are based, but also from Victoria. I haven't seen any

261
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 2: from other places, although I believe that they do exist

262
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 2: where there are some rules, where there is I can't

263
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 2: remember what the exact term is, soft, I get the

264
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,360
Speaker 2: term wrong. Please forgive me. But if children are being

265
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 2: particularly challenging, and this usually only applies to your adverse kids,

266
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 2: teachers are allowed to use something that I think is

267
00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,719
Speaker 2: called is it appropriate restraint or something? And so I've

268
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 2: been reading stories in the press, and in fact that

269
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 2: it happened at a school here on the Sunshine Coast

270
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 2: just recently, where a kid is put it in a box,

271
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 2: or a kid is put into a cage, or a

272
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 2: kid is put into an enclosed space and told you're

273
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,160
Speaker 2: not coming out until you've regulated your emotions and your

274
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,440
Speaker 2: back down level. So we can talk about this, and

275
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 2: it's these kinds of things. It's not happening a lot.

276
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,080
Speaker 2: I just want to emphasize that. And you've said wonderful

277
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 2: things about so many great teachers who are as you said,

278
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 2: Madonna going out of their way, spending their own money,

279
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 2: doing everything that they can to support kids develop themselves

280
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 2: and so on. But at the same time, as you've said, Beck,

281
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,320
Speaker 2: there are some really big challenges and home school numbers

282
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 2: of skyrocketing as a result, and the bullying and then

283
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 2: your adversity are two of the biggest reasons for that.

284
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 2: I had to chat with Brett Campbell from YUKA on

285
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 2: the podcast just recently and he said that, can I.

286
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 1: Just say the tone is set from the top. It's

287
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 1: not just the teachers. Our schools are marketing themselves as

288
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 1: being inclusive. So it's okay to use the banner, you've

289
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 1: got to put it into practice. And one thing that's

290
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 1: about in our research, it was those teachers who were

291
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,840
Speaker 1: neurodivergent or those teachers who had neurodivergent kids were just

292
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 1: terrific with the whole class. So you know, why aren't

293
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 1: we actually employing maybe more neurodvergent teachers or making, you know,

294
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: providing that as a skill base that can actually connect

295
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,720
Speaker 1: with our students too. I mean, there's so many things

296
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 1: we could do that don't require change, legislation or big

297
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 1: pockets of money, but that will materially help our kids.

298
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean I felt like this conversation really

299
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 2: should go for about an hour, hour and a half. Unfortunately,

300
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 2: this is the podcast for the time for a parent

301
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 2: who are just one's answers now, and we've already sort

302
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 2: of extended our time beyond what we're supposed to. So

303
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 2: I want to wrap up with a question for you. Well, actually,

304
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 2: before I hit the question. The book is called Out

305
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 2: of the Box. It's by Madonna King and Rebecca Sparrow.

306
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,760
Speaker 2: It's available everywhere already in the second print run. It's

307
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 2: only been out for like what a week. Look at

308
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 2: you guys, go here's my question. We're moving in towards

309
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 2: the summer whole of another couple of weeks of school,

310
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,920
Speaker 2: a handful of weeks, and the kids are off and

311
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 2: everyone's at home and hopefully relaxing and enjoying some downtime,

312
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: and the kids are going to feel good for it,

313
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 2: especially if we can keep them away from screens and

314
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 2: get them outside in nature and living their best lives outside.

315
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 2: But in at about eight or nine or ten weeks,

316
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 2: we're going to be going through, especially those of us

317
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,160
Speaker 2: with near diverse kids, we're going to be going through

318
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 2: this thing where the kids saying I don't want I

319
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 2: don't want to. I don't want to. I didn't last year.

320
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 2: What do I have to do it again this year?

321
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 2: What if I don't like my teacher, what if I

322
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 2: don't like classmates? What if? What if? We're going to

323
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 2: be going through all of this again with our kids.

324
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 2: So as we get ready to close things down for

325
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 2: the summer and recalibrate for a new year, I'd love

326
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: to ask each of you what do you think the

327
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 2: best things are that parents can do to guide their

328
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 2: kids into a successful twenty twenty five as they head

329
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 2: into school.

330
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: So we've got a list in the book, but one

331
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 1: thing I would say is, if your child is starting

332
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: high school or starting a new school, right to the teacher.

333
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: Develop a relationship with that classroom teacher. Get a little

334
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,400
Speaker 1: picture of the school, a map of it, and over

335
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 1: the holidays wander around so they know we're touch shopp

336
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,719
Speaker 1: is and a sitting area is so there is a

337
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 1: sense of routine and familiarity before they even go to school.

338
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 1: But don't leave that connection till February next year. Do

339
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,239
Speaker 1: it in the remaining weeks before school finishes. So that

340
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 1: you can talk to your child over that period about

341
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: what will happen next year. And then it's not a

342
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: huge jump to a new school. It's a transition which

343
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,199
Speaker 1: can be really tricky.

344
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful.

345
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,199
Speaker 3: What about you, Beck, Look, I would say, certainly in

346
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,640
Speaker 3: primary school, the things that I'd be doing between now

347
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 3: and the end of the year, I would be getting

348
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 3: the current teacher to send your child on fake errands

349
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 3: that the child doesn't know are fake, with messages to

350
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 3: go up to a teacher in the grade above, so

351
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 3: they delivering messages going up to the classrooms.

352
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 1: Things like that.

353
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 3: I would also be saying, and this is what we've

354
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 3: done with my kids early drop off, the what they

355
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 3: call teacher this week before school goes back. That is

356
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,919
Speaker 3: when you talk to your school. Your child could be

357
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 3: in there every day, just half an hour, wandering around

358
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 3: in the new classroom, chatting to the teacher. It is

359
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 3: all about relationship building. So what I'm hoping is that

360
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 3: you're going to have a teacher that you go in

361
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:30,080
Speaker 3: and say, listen, my child loves Taylor Swift, dinosaurs, frogs, whatever, right,

362
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: that's their special interest, and the great teachers out there

363
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 3: will go right. I'm onto this and they will have

364
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 3: conversation status because it is all down to that relationship

365
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,920
Speaker 3: between a child and their teacher, and the safer our

366
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 3: neurodivergent children feel, the more that likely they will flourish.

367
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 2: Just on that. There's some research that shows that kids

368
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 2: are happy at school, going back to the relationship thing,

369
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 2: essentially when they have someone to sit next to a

370
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 2: class that they like, and when they trust the teacher,

371
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 2: when they know the teacher is going to act in

372
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 2: their best interest. When we had our kids starting a

373
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 2: school a few years ago, we wrote a note to

374
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 2: the teacher, like you said, Madonna, and we just asked

375
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 2: if there were a couple of parents that we could

376
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,680
Speaker 2: meet up with with their kids so that our children

377
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 2: could develop some relationships across the summer so they're not

378
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: showing up on day one completely unknown and completely lost.

379
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 2: And we found that was also well. It came with

380
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 2: some challenges, but it was also useful. The name of

381
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,879
Speaker 2: the book is out of the Box, a one stop

382
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 2: guide and navigating neurodivergence. The authors of Madonna King and

383
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 2: Rebecca Sparrow there two of my wonderful friends, and I'm

384
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 2: so grateful for the work that they do and the

385
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 2: way that they're supporting families who are dealing with these challenges.

386
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 2: Madonna Beck, thanks so much, just I wish we could

387
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,919
Speaker 2: talk for hours. This is so valuable. Thanks and all

388
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: the best with the book. I think it'll make a

389
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 2: great Christmas gift under the tree for somebody if you

390
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: haven't grabbed it already, All set for next year. If

391
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 2: you'd like more info, we'll link to the book in

392
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 2: our show notes. Out of the Box and one stop

393
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 2: guides navigating new road divergence. They Family Podcast is produced

394
00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 2: by Justin rolland from Bridge Media, and if you'd like

395
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 2: more r info about making your family happier, visitors at

396
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au. Tomorrow, on the pod,

397
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: It's a Doctor's Desk episode, we're looking at a new

398
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 2: study that links low income stress parents and child behavior

399
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 2: and how better support can bring benefits all and a

400
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 2: brand new study that's just come out suggesting that the

401
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 2: negativeffects of childhood spanking may be overstated. Can't wait for

402
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: that one. On the Happy Families Podcast