1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: used by the world's the most successful people to get 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: so much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: science consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways to 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: optimize my workday. This episode is another my favorite tip episode. 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: The title's probably pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: tip from each of the interviews I conduct. 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: Now. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: The extract that I have for you today was actually 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: recorded live in Melbourne last October at Inventium's headquarters, and 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: it was with Adam Ferrier, someone who I've known for 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: over a decade and who I was very excited to 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: have on the show. Adam is a consumer psychologist and 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: the co founder of think a Bell, an agency that 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: fuses together marketing sciences and hardcore creativity. Thinker Bell also 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: happens to be the current AD News Creative Agency of 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the Year. So you might have seen Adam on your 19 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: TV because he's a weekly guest on shows like Sunrise, 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: Your Money and a regular panelist on Gruin and also 21 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: The Project. Now, in this chat or this extract, I 22 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: have for you. With Adam, we talk about how he 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: thinks about building his own personal brand. And if this 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: is something you've thought a lot about or maybe not 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: that much about either, I think that you will find 26 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: this chat very interesting and practical and helpful. So on 27 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: that note, let's hear about Adam and building a personal brand. 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: I want to talk about brand because brand and creating 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: brands and thinking about brand strategy has been a big 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: part of your life for the last many years. And 31 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: I know you think a lot about your personal brand, 32 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: and I want to know when did you start seeing 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: yourself as a person as a brand that you had 34 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: to think strategically about. 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: I hear the question. 36 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: I won't reject the question because it does position me 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: as somewhat as an absolute dickhead. I'm not, but I 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: find it if you luck if I met somebody who 39 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: said who said they considered their brand themselves as the brand, 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: I would not like that person. 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 4: I probably wouldn't either. 42 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: However, I did just start to find it easier to 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: wear the same thing all the time, so you just 45 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: wear black jeans and a T shirt had the mutual 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: benefit of being slimming as well. 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 3: And then I suddenly discovered. 48 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: You know, if you think about brands, and lots of 49 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: what brands need to do is make things easier for consumers. 50 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: That's kind of the main way they work. We're not 51 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: necessarily motivated to buy one over the other. It's much 52 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 2: more about it. If one's easier to buy, I has 53 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: mental physical availability, we're much more likely to buy it. 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: So you think about it and it's there, you'll buy 55 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: that over another brand. 56 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: And the easiest way. 57 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: To make things easy to buy is have strong distinctive 58 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: assets that cue that brand in the mind. And then 59 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: I realized at some stage that's kind of marketing sciences, 60 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: and that's at one stage that then I realized, that's 61 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: what I've been doing by curating my own look of 62 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: having very strong brand distinctive assets, so wearing all black, 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: very disheveled look, long hair, black glasses, they're all distinctive 64 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: assets that make it easy for you to recognize me. 65 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 2: And then if I present in a similar way over 66 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: time all the time, then a brand is also just 67 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: a promise cat And so you'll come if you hear 68 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: of Adam Ferry and not that many people have, but 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: like in my little world, they have or you in 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: my very small worlds some of them have. 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: Then if you keep that promise. 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: Of expectation, then people feel satisfied with that and so 73 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: they're therefore they're more likely to trust it. So it's 74 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: just having to deliver on that expectation. But what I 75 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: find interesting about that was your earlier point about being adversarial. 76 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: Or I forget what the word you used was contrarian. 77 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: A client of mine a few years ago said to me, 78 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: it used to be much more contrariant than you are, 79 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: and it's disappointing because we need you to play that 80 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: role in our business. And I thought that was really 81 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: interesting because because then being contrarian does take effort and 82 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: then and if that is, if that is your role, 83 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: then you know, if that's what. 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 3: People want you to do, or that's the promise, that's. 85 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: That's right, if that's where they see value, then you 86 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: should deliver on that. 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: Then. 88 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: A fun game we did play at my previous agency, 89 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: which I've kind of kept up, is trying to identify 90 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: everybody's brand positioning. 91 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: And a good brand positioning. 92 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: Reconciles the fundamental trade off, so it does it reconciles 93 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: to trade offs of two benefits that go against each 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: other that other brands in the category can't necessarily reconcile. 95 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: The example I learned when I was right back in 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: the day, it was Pine a clean reconcile. The trade 97 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: off in the cleaning market of either having to smell 98 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: nice or work hard. 99 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,559 Speaker 3: It worked hard because it smelled nice. 100 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: And so we always at my last agency would play 101 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: this fun parlor game. We would give everybody a brand 102 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: positioning by trying to identify two opposing opposites and bringing 103 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: them together to create a strong brand. And mine was 104 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: enigmatic irritation. So it was kind of interesting but very irritating, 105 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 2: as you're probably starting to starting to experience. 106 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: And I remember when so one of the things that 107 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: you've done in the last year is you co founded 108 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: a conference. Is it called a conference gathering, I don't 109 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: know what festival conference slash festival called space, which I 110 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: attended in May this year, and you had a really 111 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: fun exercise I think it was on the first dinner 112 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: of the conference where you kind of gave people instructions 113 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: on how to create what you've just talked about. Can 114 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: you can you talk people through like if people want 115 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: to do this for themselves think about their own brand. 116 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 4: How do they do that? 117 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: Well, think of over's made up of opposite, So think about. 118 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 3: A whole lot of. 119 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: This is not the way to do brand position, but 120 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: this is a fun kind of way to identify your 121 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: own little thing if you want to. 122 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: That helps describe who you are. 123 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: So we just ask people to develop up a list 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: of adjectives that describe themselves. Try to find a few 125 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: adjectives that have a bit of tension in them so 126 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: that they're not that they kind of work at the 127 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: opposite kind of way, and then bring those together to 128 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: create a singular thought that describes you. And that's that's 129 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: what we did. 130 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: And so you know, so everyone in the agency has 131 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 3: got their own. 132 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: Couple of words that that bring together two thoughts. 133 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: In a kind of nice, nice way. 134 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, like that. It's a fun exercise to do. 135 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, a few times, it is. It is hard. 136 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: Because then just just trying to find everyone tries to 137 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: avoid the negative, and if you're trying to work it 138 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: up for somebody else, it's hard to find the right 139 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 2: negative negative words without insulting people. A seventy three percent 140 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: of the worse years to describe personality and negative. 141 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: Seventy three percent of words used to describe personality and negative. 142 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: According to Wikipedia, really according to negative negativity biases, there's 143 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: a yeah, there's a thing there. 144 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 4: Wow. 145 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: I want to talk more about your own brand, because 146 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: you've sort of talked about like the physical assets of 147 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: your brand and being distinctive and recognizable and fulfilling that promise, 148 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: and you talked about being contrarian and how I guess 149 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: a client had expectations that that is what you will deliver. 150 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: Are there other things that you think of in terms 151 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: of your own personal brand that you know you then 152 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: think about, Okay, how am I going to consistently deliver 153 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,679 Speaker 1: on that? Or have you been able to evolve your 154 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: brand over that time you know that you've been in 155 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: advertising people. 156 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: Just for the record, I really don't consider myself in 157 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: this branded sense, like it's a bit of well, maybe 158 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: I do, but I don't like to admit it. 159 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: And it's because I think that's interesting because you are 160 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: such like a distinctive brand in your industry. And I 161 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: can completely understand how awkward this is, but I just 162 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: too want to unpack it. 163 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 3: So what else do I do to manufacture? 164 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 4: What else do you do? Or what else do you 165 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 4: think about. 166 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: I really like, I think the world is heading towards 167 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: a homogeneity. 168 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: At a really really rapid rate. 169 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: And and somebody once told me that if you took 170 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: an Elizabethan person and put them on the streets today, 171 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: that person would be deemed to be crazy because that'd 172 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: be so emotional and so demonstrative. And we're all chipping 173 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: away at each other's emotions. And we're all really you know, 174 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: people that stand up and applaud and. 175 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 3: Go bravo, bravo, or whatever. 176 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: They used to do back in the day in a theater, 177 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: you know, you get a polite round of applause, and 178 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 2: then that'd be kind of it. So we're all chopping 179 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: off each other's emotions by policing each other's behavior a lot. 180 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: And I do kind of find myself naturally, you know, 181 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: for all the reasons we've spoken about before, being able 182 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: to add a bit of color movement within that world. 183 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: And so I do like to leave people thinking about something, 184 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: I guess, And so that's what I would say some 185 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: of my value is in terms of trying to offer 186 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: some freedom. 187 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,479 Speaker 4: Of thought, So leave people thinking about something. 188 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, or fucking with things in some particular way, you 189 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: know what I mean, like just trying to fuck with 190 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: the situation. 191 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: In some way. 192 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 4: What's an example of that. 193 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: I did think i'd do that at my work, or 194 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: some of the ideas that my agencies have developed a 195 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 2: kind of quite jarring kind of things that make people 196 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: think in terms of my family would say, I do 197 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: it all the time in a very encounter, in a 198 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: not a good way. But yeah, so I guess, I guess, 199 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: and I guess. Even doing something like creating Space, I 200 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: love the idea of creating something that is a different 201 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: model or a new way of doing something. And I think, 202 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: you know, the fact that we can't quite describe what 203 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: Space is, the fact that it had this kind of 204 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 2: festival party atmosphere for the whole thing, and there was 205 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: no separation between speakers and delegates, and it was just, 206 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: you know, I love the idea that that was a 207 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: new kind of thing to put out into the world. 208 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. 209 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening. 210 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: If you liked it, why not share the episode with 211 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: someone who you also think could benefit. Just use the 212 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: little share icon wherever you listen to this podcast, And 213 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: if you're enjoying how I work maybe you might want 214 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: to leave a review for the show. It's awesome getting 215 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: reviews bring such a big smile to my face, so 216 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: thank you if you plan to do that, and also. 217 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 4: A big thank you if you already have left a review. 218 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: So that's it for today's episode and I will see 219 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: you next time.