WEBVTT - THE NEWSREADER WITH CREATOR MICHAEL LUCAS

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and

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<v Speaker 1>on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest players in television. This week I managed to

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<v Speaker 1>launch a midweek TV Reload series with Simon me who

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<v Speaker 1>is the latest person to be eliminated from Australian Survivor.

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<v Speaker 1>This will divide the type of guests that I have

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<v Speaker 1>on the show, keeping actors and presenters and reality TV

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<v Speaker 1>contestants midweek and then the people from behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 1>on the main episode. I hope you will enjoy the

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<v Speaker 1>stories from both podcasts. As I continue to grow and

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<v Speaker 1>improve the show, I have some great episodes coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>Next week I will have a main actor from Five Bedrooms,

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<v Speaker 1>which is now on Paramount Plus, and then next Saturday

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<v Speaker 1>I will have an episode from one of the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>rating shows on Free to Wear. I wonder if you

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<v Speaker 1>guys can pick which show that is. Also, as you

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<v Speaker 1>guys know, I love to give a recommendation for another podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and this week I've been listening to watch What Happens

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<v Speaker 1>Live with Andy Cohen. He had Lisa Rinner on the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast and she's kind of nuts, but the right kind

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<v Speaker 1>of nut in my mind, and Obviously, Rena was on

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<v Speaker 1>the show to talk about the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a guilty pleasure of mine. This week, I

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<v Speaker 1>have watched the first two episodes of Wentworth on Foxtail,

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<v Speaker 1>which will premiere on the twenty fourth of August, and

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<v Speaker 1>I also watch the finale of White Lotus which is

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<v Speaker 1>on Binge that'll be out on Monday. Sadly, Wentworth will

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<v Speaker 1>rap for good at the end of this series, but

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<v Speaker 1>the good news is White Lotus is getting a second

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<v Speaker 1>series and that's kind of made up for that departure. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>both shows are very different but brilliantly written. Nonetheless. This

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<v Speaker 1>week in the TV ratings on Free to Wear, we

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<v Speaker 1>have seen the Olympics on Channel seven really trail off

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<v Speaker 1>some huge numbers for The Voice and Home and Away,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure the team at Channel seven are thrilled with.

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<v Speaker 1>It's certainly going to be interesting to see how the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the year pans out with shows like The

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<v Speaker 1>Mass Singer on Network ten and Love Island on Channel nine.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing is for sure, it is a tough market

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<v Speaker 1>for eyeballs and I hope there is something for everyone

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<v Speaker 1>as the year pans out. This week on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>I have Michael Lucas here to chat about The Newsreader

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<v Speaker 1>on ABC, which debuts this Sunday nine at eight thirty.

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Lucas is a writer, producer and scriptwriter. He's worked

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<v Speaker 1>on successful shows right across several genres, from relationship dramedies

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<v Speaker 1>of Offspring, to the prison thriller of Wentworth, the political

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<v Speaker 1>drama of Party Tricks, and the comedy sensation on ABC

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<v Speaker 1>called rose Haven. He has been working behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 1>with some iconic television moments like Patrick's death on Offspring

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<v Speaker 1>and B's death on Wentworth, and while those two may

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<v Speaker 1>seem kind of bleak, he's also cultivated and created some

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<v Speaker 1>of the best TV characters of this generation. He is

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<v Speaker 1>one of my favorite television creators and I actually notice

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<v Speaker 1>his work in everything that he does. Today, as we

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<v Speaker 1>focus on The Newsreader, we will discuss sexism in the newsroom,

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<v Speaker 1>the games LGBTI people have made on Australian television, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course how the show was researched and put together. However,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get started with today's guest. I would like to

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<v Speaker 1>welcome you and Michael Lucas to TV Reload.

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<v Speaker 2>The Truth is When I started writing it, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with the news. Good evening and

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<v Speaker 2>welcome to news at six. I'm pretty unabashed when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to putting the personalities of people that I know

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<v Speaker 2>in drama.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I was reading the Thatcher's story.

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<v Speaker 2>I pitched it to the ABC. I wrote it on

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<v Speaker 2>spec second explosion here on Russell Street today. Yes, it

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<v Speaker 2>is fair to say that she's definitely part of the inspiration,

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<v Speaker 2>but there were Many's going to be a special rule.

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<v Speaker 2>It is remarkable how long it took for just women

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<v Speaker 2>to be newsreaders in general.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, mate, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really well, Ben, how are you?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm good. Now, full disclosure, You're drinking wine at

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<v Speaker 1>your end and I'm not drinking wine at mine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So if one of us sounds noticeably more sober

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<v Speaker 2>than the other, that's why.

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<v Speaker 1>Well we'll see if people notice. Now let's get into this.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember watching Not Suitable for Children, your first feature film,

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty two twelve, and thinking there was something really

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<v Speaker 1>compelling about the way in which you understood and portrayed

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<v Speaker 1>Australian characters. Is there an enormous amount of people watching

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<v Speaker 1>in your life?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say, so, I rip off my family and friends,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've got a big circle of friends, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>got a big sort of weird family, I guess, and

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<v Speaker 2>I find them really entertaining. I think I just find

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<v Speaker 2>people entertaining, particularly people that I know well. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>pretty unabashed when it comes to sort of putting the

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<v Speaker 2>personalities of people that I know in drama, and they

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<v Speaker 2>recognize themselves and they certainly let me know. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes I'm really lazy. I even give them the same names,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a real mistake.

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<v Speaker 1>Bad idea. That means that you're guilty straight away by

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<v Speaker 1>a mission. You know, there's no mystery there. But look,

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<v Speaker 1>you have worked on so many of my favorite shows

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia. If you could go back past your work

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<v Speaker 1>on Offspring, Wentworth, Party Tricks or Incredible Shows, just to

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<v Speaker 1>name a few, and tell yourself something that you've learnt

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<v Speaker 1>over the years, what would you say, Like, what have

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<v Speaker 1>those shows taught you? Almost like giving yourself a superpower.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I would tell myself stop worrying so much. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a privilege to be able to do what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And a lot of the time that you spend on

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<v Speaker 2>anxiety about how things are going to work out. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>probably say to myself, some things are going to work,

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<v Speaker 2>some things aren't, but you're going to go on. Don't

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<v Speaker 2>act as though everything that you write and work on

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<v Speaker 2>is life or death or your career is hinged on it,

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<v Speaker 2>because I feel like I sort of burnt myself out

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<v Speaker 2>in the early part of my career just because every

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<v Speaker 2>single time I worked on something, I felt like everything

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<v Speaker 2>was on the line, and if it didn't work, I

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<v Speaker 2>was crushed.

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<v Speaker 1>Hm.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I just sort of lost a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of time and energy to that, and I wish I

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<v Speaker 2>wish I could go back to myself and say, basically,

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<v Speaker 2>chill out a little bit, just try and enjoy the

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<v Speaker 2>process a bit more. I'm trying to become better at

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<v Speaker 2>that as I get older.

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<v Speaker 1>And no one's going to sue you and you've stolen

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<v Speaker 1>their character rights too.

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<v Speaker 2>No, your aunt and uncle will be very unhappy, but no,

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<v Speaker 2>there will not be any legal action.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get over it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the show we're talking about today is The news Reader,

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<v Speaker 1>which is going to debut this Sunday, the fifteenth of

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<v Speaker 1>August on ABC.

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<v Speaker 3>Mate, how well do you know Helen we know hello

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes then you know she's very very set on these

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<v Speaker 3>special reports, right, Yes, what I really need now is

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<v Speaker 3>a blake with some chops to go help with her,

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<v Speaker 3>help her shoot, help her put the story together. You

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<v Speaker 3>do this for me on Monday, then maybe I can

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<v Speaker 3>give you a shot and an update on Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 2>Deal.

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<v Speaker 3>You got to watch yourself with the RK, because she's

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<v Speaker 3>going to hit you with a lot of shitty ideas

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<v Speaker 3>about cross eyed single mother's aides and christ Days.

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<v Speaker 2>What else your job is to better away.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm obsessed with this show. It is so good. It'll

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<v Speaker 1>be out weekly, but I have been lucky enough to

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<v Speaker 1>see the first four episodes. I actually texted Emma Freeman,

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<v Speaker 1>the director for those of you who are playing at home,

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<v Speaker 1>and said, oh my god, this show is so good,

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<v Speaker 1>and she replied, just wait episode.

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<v Speaker 2>No. It's a show that kind of reveals itself as

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<v Speaker 2>it goes on. I mean, I hope that it's, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>automatically pretty compelling, but you don't really get the measure

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<v Speaker 2>of what it's fully about in the early episodes. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's been really interesting speaking to people because some people

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<v Speaker 2>have just seen the first episode and so they see

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<v Speaker 2>it in a particular way. But then people like you

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<v Speaker 2>that are deep into it are starting to realize more things.

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<v Speaker 2>And then if people have got to the end, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not level again. So I hope you. I hope you

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<v Speaker 2>liked the last two.

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<v Speaker 1>I wondered, how did the show find its way onto

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<v Speaker 1>the ABC?

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<v Speaker 2>I pitched it to the ABC. I wrote it on SPEC.

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<v Speaker 2>I was at a period of time in my career

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<v Speaker 2>where I was taking contracts writing episodes on other people's shows.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I had this period of time like on Offspring

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<v Speaker 2>and Party Tricks and Not Suitable for Children, where I

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<v Speaker 2>was felt responsible for the whole production in lots of ways,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean as a writer, and that was exhausting. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I had this period of time where I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna just work on an episode here and

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<v Speaker 2>there on other people's projects like rose Haven, and went

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<v Speaker 2>work and I mean, in my that funded me to

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<v Speaker 2>just develop my own scripts off my own bat and

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<v Speaker 2>I started working on The news Reader and I took

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<v Speaker 2>it to the ABC. It felt like an ABC show

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<v Speaker 2>to me. And also I thought, it's going to have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of news archives, and I know that the

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<v Speaker 2>ABC has those news archives. Yeah, And because I was

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<v Speaker 2>working on Rosehan, I developed a contact with the ABC

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<v Speaker 2>executives and so I was able to just sort of

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<v Speaker 2>shoot them an email and say, I'd love to show

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<v Speaker 2>you this script and see what you think. Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 2>that's how that's how it wound up there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's amazing. And I really liked the newsroom in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twelve, which was you know, on HBO, and I

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<v Speaker 1>wondered if there was any inspiration from you watching that show.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, See, the thing for me is I think I

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<v Speaker 2>love almost anything set in a newsroom, like, and I

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<v Speaker 2>mean across genres, like I loved Anchorman, I love Frontline,

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<v Speaker 2>I love Press Gang, I love the newsroom. Like it's

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<v Speaker 2>almost like I love to die for. It's almost like

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<v Speaker 2>you can't set something in a newsroom without me liking it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's just something about the environment that I find really

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<v Speaker 2>really exciting. And it doesn't matter whether it's comedy, drama

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<v Speaker 2>or romantic comedy. I'm just always happy to be there.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, and the newsroom in particular, the main thing

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<v Speaker 2>is that the newsroom used real stories and they were reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>In the case of the newsroom, it with stories from

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<v Speaker 2>just a couple of years prior. But that I loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that and I thought it was so much

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<v Speaker 2>better than having them report on sort of imagined fake stories,

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<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, it was a massive influence.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the setting of actual eighties Australian news events with

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<v Speaker 1>characters that are fictionalized is just brilliant. How did that

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<v Speaker 1>concept come about?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, actually it was a really long development time, and weirdly,

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<v Speaker 2>the truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with the news. I started writing

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<v Speaker 2>it writing the character of Dale that Sam Reid plays,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just really wanted to write a leading man

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<v Speaker 2>that was sort of trying to be this particular image

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<v Speaker 2>of masculinity and sort of forcing himself to be a

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<v Speaker 2>kind of persona that wasn't a natural fit. I'd always

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to have a show with a main character like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a vocal thing? Because I have been working

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<v Speaker 2>with a vocal coach all summer? He actually worked with

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<v Speaker 2>Jack Thompson.

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<v Speaker 3>You want to get your money back, Dale, He doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>stand in me like Jack Thompson.

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<v Speaker 2>I always just thought there was a lot of comedy

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<v Speaker 2>and drama in that, and I related to it, and

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<v Speaker 2>then really early on I decided, well, I'll pair him

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<v Speaker 2>with a woman who has those sort of alpha traits,

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<v Speaker 2>but she's punished for them. And so I was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of writing a relationship drama between the two of them,

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<v Speaker 2>and I set it in the eighties to make the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of gender expectations that much more potent. And it

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<v Speaker 2>was actually like quite a way in that I was

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<v Speaker 2>just thinking about, Okay, what's his goal though? What is

0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.360
<v Speaker 2>he what is the image that he wanted? Should he

0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.400
<v Speaker 2>be a politician or a sportsman? And then at a

0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.200
<v Speaker 2>certain point I thought a newsreader. I don't know, Dale said,

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.760
<v Speaker 2>but even when he was very little, he used to

0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:54.040
<v Speaker 2>watch the news every night from about seven years old.

0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.240
<v Speaker 2>He'd watch every second right through to the weather. They

0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.640
<v Speaker 2>were like the ultimate state men with their deep voices.

0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.320
<v Speaker 2>And so once I decided to make his goal be

0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.280
<v Speaker 2>a newsreader, I started researching newsrooms and then I just

0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.400
<v Speaker 2>became obsessed with the culture. How funny is that when

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.240
<v Speaker 2>you think about so many of the male newsreaders I

0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.559
<v Speaker 2>know them are closeted, you know, like, once you start

0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.360
<v Speaker 2>sort of digging a little bit deeper. And I was

0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.960
<v Speaker 2>on the phone to a journalist today and then we

0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.840
<v Speaker 2>just started spitbowling the names and we're like this person

0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.960
<v Speaker 2>this person, so it's kind of a very fascinating setting.

0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.280
<v Speaker 2>But you know, the character that Sam Reid plays, which

0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.720
<v Speaker 2>is Dale Jennings, he sort of encapsulates that struggle with

0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.080
<v Speaker 2>coming to terms with your sexuality. So well, you know,

0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.040
<v Speaker 2>was that easy to navigate for you? Yeah, it was.

0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.600
<v Speaker 2>It certainly came very easy to me. But then in

0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 2>the construction of the show, it it was It was

0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.839
<v Speaker 2>interesting in the construction, how do we reveal certain things

0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.040
<v Speaker 2>about these characters. We present them at the beginning in

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.200
<v Speaker 2>a particular way, and then bit by bit we reveal

0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.960
<v Speaker 2>more and just getting the balance right with that was

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.360
<v Speaker 2>quite tricky. But I mean, Sam, who's just an incredible actor,

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.080
<v Speaker 2>and Emma Freeman is amazing director. The calibration of that

0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.520
<v Speaker 2>took some work. But in terms of tuning in to

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.520
<v Speaker 2>his yearning and his pain, that was easy for me.

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I feel it and know it and feel

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.840
<v Speaker 2>like it was such a defining part of my life,

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.800
<v Speaker 2>so it was not a hard thing for me to

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>write at all. I'm committed to Helen. I care about

0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:25.640
<v Speaker 2>it deeply.

0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>The last thing I want to do is hurt her,

0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.560
<v Speaker 1>So please don't tell anyone of course, so palpable, like

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.200
<v Speaker 1>it just elevated me. Do you think we've come a

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 1>long way in regard to homosexuality in the media.

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Look, I would say yes for homosexuality, Yeah, I really,

0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 2>I really would, because I mean, I know that a

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of people would still feel are There are plenty

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.440
<v Speaker 2>of people that are still closeted, no doubt about it.

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.560
<v Speaker 2>But certainly the notion that to be an outgay person

0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.480
<v Speaker 2>is going to be a career killer, I think that's

0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 2>really started to ebb away. And you know, I mean

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.480
<v Speaker 2>we have in Melbourne Peter Hitchener is openly gay and

0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>he's just beloved. He's the ultimate newsreader in Melbourne. I

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know, he switched on the radio and Joel Creasy's

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 2>on nov and so I actually think one of the

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.120
<v Speaker 2>really remarkable things about the past thirty years has been

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>that journey from where we were at in the eighties

0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.280
<v Speaker 2>and nineties to now. And I'm not saying that there

0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 2>is an ult you know, there obviously there's still a

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:25.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of prejudice and there's a lot of people that

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 2>are struggling. But for me, it's an optimistic journey because

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.839
<v Speaker 2>it shows changes possible, changes possible and things can actually

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 2>change pretty quickly, like where we're at now in lots

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.560
<v Speaker 2>of ways. I'm married and to my husband, and you know,

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 2>if you told me even in two thousand and even

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty ten, I think I probably would have really doubted

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.559
<v Speaker 2>that that would be possible. And I'm probably naturally an optimist,

0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.679
<v Speaker 2>but I think in regards to homosexuality, I feel like

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 2>there really has been progress in.

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Australia, absolutely, you know, and there's been those trailblazers as well,

0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you mentioned Joel. You know, it's amazing,

0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 1>you know. I remember in twenty twelve auditioning for a

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 1>radio show and they said to me, you know, this

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 1>is national so they didn't think I would be the

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.319
<v Speaker 1>right fit because I was too gay, and they had

0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that conversation with me in twenty twelve.

0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 2>And I remember on early even this is you know,

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.199
<v Speaker 2>in twenty ten, twenty eleven, the start of my writing career,

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.120
<v Speaker 2>I remember getting notes about you can have those two

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>male characters kissed, but you know what, you're going to

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 2>lose thirty percent of your audience. That was said to me,

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and people believed it, and people felt people could pull

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 2>out old ratings reports and say yeah, no, it's absolutely

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 2>you will just lose your straight male audience if you

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 2>put that in. And I really feel like I noticed

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>another show that I work on, Five Bedrooms. I've noticed

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that both seasons they've put gay male kisses in the trailer.

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>And if you told me back in twenty ten and

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 2>eleven that one day they'll promote shows with gay romance

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>in it, I just wouldn't have believed it. I was

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 2>watching the first episode of series two of Five Bedrooms

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.280
<v Speaker 2>today and loving it, and I just thought there was

0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a scene where there was it was so weird to

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 2>me because they were hooking up, and I just remember

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>being like, Oh, this show is so great.

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like, oh my god, this is crazy.

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't have seen this in House Husbands in twenty twelve.

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, we had to have masculine actors playing gay

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 1>roles to sort of bridge the gap in a way,

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 1>you know. Crazy. And then also Hugh Sheridan being on

0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>this show, being that he's now open about his sexuality,

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 1>him playing a straight character is very.

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Straight, actually impregnated two women in the.

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Show, and I'm like, but I'm like, wow, this is

0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>this is just mind boggling.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 2>I know, and actually that scene at the start of

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Five Bedroom season two, Yeah, it was absolutely great because

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's no secret that those two actors, Roy

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and Matt Baker are both gay, and you know, acting

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 2>is acting nonetheless, the way that they charge at those kisses. Yeah,

0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:50.920
<v Speaker 2>even for me when I looked at it, I was like,

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 2>still today, it's kind of startling to see it. And

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>of course, you know, House Husband's was incredibly progressive for

0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 2>when it for that time. It's still quite a recent show,

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 2>but they did a gay wedding on there, and yeah,

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 2>I think for me it's just indicative of how happily

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 2>in that respect, how fast things have changed in this

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>really condensed space of time.

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, moving on to Anatov, who is just so good

0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in this role. How quickly did she get attached to

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:14.640
<v Speaker 1>the project?

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 2>She was attached at the start of twenty twenty. She's

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 2>worked with Emma Freeman before, they made a Secret City together,

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 2>and you know, she's just would be at the top

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.080
<v Speaker 2>of so many people's lists, and she had just come

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>off mind Hunter, which was extraordinary and she was extraordinary

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 2>in it. So I thought she'll be a long shot,

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 2>but happily because of the pandemic, she'd come back to

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Australia and so I felt like that put us in

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 2>good position. The fact that she loves Emma as well

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 2>and Joe Werner, who produced it also was a great boon.

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>But in some ways for me, she's kind of like

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 2>fantasy casting someone you really dream of because of the

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary series she's been in and her and Sam actually

0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 2>really from early on we're both lingering there on the

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>lists and we're just really really lucky that we managed

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 2>to find this place in time where they got it,

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>they were open to it and signed on.

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.159
<v Speaker 1>Well, and it has the right amount of femininity and

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 1>masculinity that represented, you know, the journalists who were on

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:16.119
<v Speaker 1>TV in the eighties. Obviously, you have to accept that

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.359
<v Speaker 1>telling stories means sometimes telling danger stories. Gadarthi has been

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 1>described on occasion as the world's most dangerous man. Did

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.880
<v Speaker 1>you interview many of those iconic newsreaders to get that right?

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I had interview to a huge number of people

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.040
<v Speaker 2>who worked in newsrooms. I was a little bit careful

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 2>in terms of interviewing some of the really famous newsreaders

0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>because I was reluctant. I just wouldn't want anyone to

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.520
<v Speaker 2>think I was trying to tell their particular story. So

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 2>for someone like, for example, Peter Hitchener, I'm sure there's

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot of crossover between him and Dale, but he'll

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 2>probably write his own biography and it'll be brilliant, and

0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 2>the same with someone like yarn event So what I

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 2>to get the balance right, What I tended to do

0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>was I interviewed a lot of producers of the era,

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>people cameraman from the era, or you know, all people

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.760
<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes. And then in addition to that I

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 2>interviewed I did interview some quite really well known news readers,

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 2>but actually the ones that I settled on were more

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.600
<v Speaker 2>from the nineties and a little bit afterwards, just to

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.640
<v Speaker 2>avoid the sense that I was taking anyone's life story.

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>So and everyone that I interviewed, some of which are

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>still on the air and very famous today, I promised

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 2>them anonymity so that they could and then they might.

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll be interested to see whether any of them out

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.600
<v Speaker 2>themselves when the show comes out, and I completely understand

0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.639
<v Speaker 2>if they don't, you know, and I don't know how

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 2>they'll respond. M It was great, actually, because as soon

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>as I promised them this is just for my own research, purposes,

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.199
<v Speaker 2>no one will ever know. They really opened up and

0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the stories were amazing.

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, Amm Rossiano is a good friend of Hells and

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 1>was reported to have been the inspiration for Cat Stewart's

0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.639
<v Speaker 1>character in Offspring. So yeah, you know, I was going

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 1>to ask you who inspirations for Simon and Helen.

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a lot, There's more than one inspiration, but yeah,

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.920
<v Speaker 2>no question. M. You know, it's really no secret that

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the M has sort of forged a career in the media,

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:17.520
<v Speaker 2>and she's a big personality and famously has you know,

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.360
<v Speaker 2>has sometimes struggled in those commercial media environments. And I've

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.359
<v Speaker 2>been very close to her for all that time, so

0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I've had a front row seat to that. I mean,

0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm always it pains to say, of course there's you know,

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Helen and Dahl are in a romantic relationship. I can

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 2>assure you that has not happened with M and I,

0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and there's no direct you know, there's no direct moments,

0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 2>but definitely that struggle of being you know, an ambitious,

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>a focused, a talented and uncompromising woman in that environment.

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I've drawn a lot of inspiration from that, and obviously

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.360
<v Speaker 2>that's been part of M's story as well, and I've

0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 2>witnessed it, so yes, it is fair to say that

0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.400
<v Speaker 2>she's definitely part of the inspiration. But there were many

0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.280
<v Speaker 2>sixty minutes. Are sending female reporters.

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 3>To wars anywhere you go is a war zone, Helen,

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:07.480
<v Speaker 3>You're a war zone on two legs.

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.640
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, try your luck there, see if they'll take you.

0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, what are we tell you something? Though?

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.280
<v Speaker 3>Sweeter are the networks they hear about the shit we

0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:16.960
<v Speaker 3>have to put up with from you.

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot budge bar.

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 2>I have to back you up.

0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.159
<v Speaker 3>Every day. People come in here and they say, Helen Marble,

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:23.000
<v Speaker 3>she's a nightmare.

0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:24.880
<v Speaker 2>She's got a face like a slap dart.

0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, I just remember watching the show and then doing

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 1>the research, knowing that I was going to be speaking

0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 1>to you, and thinking I was like, it's em Rosiano here,

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 1>because she had this ability to be really sort of

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>ambitious and talented but also emotional, and then also being

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.160
<v Speaker 1>told you're not allowed to have those things all put

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 1>together is just so interesting.

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's a pretty you know. I would say

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.120
<v Speaker 2>that in terms of that you we were speaking about

0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.040
<v Speaker 2>the progress with in terms of homosexuality. I would say

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.359
<v Speaker 2>in some ways the gender progress is still maybe not

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a swift and I still feel like there are different

0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 2>standards and our tolerance for men who are decisive and

0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.439
<v Speaker 2>who are ambitious and everything like that is is I

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>still I reckon a lot greater than women. And it

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 2>is like in the in the show, audience members ring

0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.280
<v Speaker 2>the switchboard and say all this sort of stuff about

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 2>Helen saying, you know, she's she's put on weight. I

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>didn't like that. I make up all that sort of stuff.

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.359
<v Speaker 2>You know that obviously we don't ring the switchboard, but

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 2>tell you what. They go on Twitter and you only

0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 2>need to like every time Lee sales is on seven

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 2>point thirty. I mean, just look at people tweeting her. Like,

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 2>the pressures on women in the media, both from the

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 2>audience and from the structure around them, is still pretty intense.

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, how do you think that the flavor of

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Australian journalism differs to say, the way in which they

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 1>report on the news in England and America?

0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's interesting. Actually, the first thing I have to

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 2>say is one of the surprising things is how much

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.159
<v Speaker 2>the presentation, how the way that a newsreader composes of themselves.

0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.080
<v Speaker 2>There are actually a lot of similarities. And one of

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.160
<v Speaker 2>the things that was surprizing to me is how much

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the look of an eighties news reader seemed to be

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.800
<v Speaker 2>consistent in all the different territories. Actually, I would say

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.119
<v Speaker 2>that the British ones were a bit more tweed and spectacles,

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.160
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more in the American ones were more

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 2>that sort of tough hair spray. And I suppose the

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.359
<v Speaker 2>American news even in the eighties had tripped a little

0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:24.160
<v Speaker 2>bit more into slightly more sensational territory even back then.

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.959
<v Speaker 2>And the big difference, actually one of the biggest differences

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.320
<v Speaker 2>with in America is they in the eighties already had

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 2>twenty four hour news. They already had CNN, and we

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't have that here, so we still had the legacy

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 2>of the news bulletin. And another thing that you really

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.080
<v Speaker 2>felt with the Australian ones is that in the eighties,

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.400
<v Speaker 2>at least a lot of particularly the men that were

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.159
<v Speaker 2>still there, they had been there since the birth of

0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 2>television and they had begun in radio. And when you

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:51.800
<v Speaker 2>look at some of the eighties footage from Australia, they

0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.080
<v Speaker 2>really speak in that old timey Australian voice, which is

0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>really feels really dated now.

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.480
<v Speaker 3>The main event of our visa Tennery World Expo eighty eight.

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.679
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I guess that's the primary difference. America was

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.400
<v Speaker 2>speeding into sensationalism in twenty four hour news and we

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.159
<v Speaker 2>still had that legacy of you are now on the

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:14.760
<v Speaker 2>six pm bulletin that was still here in Australia.

0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, women on TV was sort of refined to

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.480
<v Speaker 1>the barrel girl roles. At best, they might get the

0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:21.960
<v Speaker 1>second lead story. Are you surprised with how long it's

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.520
<v Speaker 1>sort of taken us to see more equality on television?

0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is a strong I mean, it is remarkable

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 2>how long it took for just women to be newsreaders

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 2>in general. I mean it was really just starting to

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:35.639
<v Speaker 2>come in the late seventies and then a little bit

0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:37.480
<v Speaker 2>more in the eighties, but typically in the eighties they

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 2>just had to be pared with a man. That's pretty

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.920
<v Speaker 2>wild to me, and I think even today, I mean

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>you look at commercial radio, there are very few commercial

0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.919
<v Speaker 2>radio teams that are two women. In fact, are there any?

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.919
<v Speaker 2>And isn't there still? Isn't there still with radio this

0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:58.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of vague sense of audiences won't like two female voices.

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 2>They need to be you know of that, or they

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:03.359
<v Speaker 2>just sound shrill. I mean that is something that could

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 2>you could imagine still get said in twenty twenty one.

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:10.159
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean a lot of these, you know,

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:13.639
<v Speaker 2>the misogyny frankly is it's really it's stark and it's

0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:15.919
<v Speaker 2>still present today. But then there were really, I mean,

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>there's always fascinating exceptions, and Yanna Vent was a really

0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:22.359
<v Speaker 2>fascinating exception to the rule because she was she was

0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:28.159
<v Speaker 2>very serious and authoritative and really beloved, like she was

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.440
<v Speaker 2>the most popular person on Australian television. You know, there

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:36.160
<v Speaker 2>was nothing barrel girl about Yana. She was a very intelligent, sophisticated,

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 2>serious presence on Australian news and so on one level

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.120
<v Speaker 2>she's like the highest paid person on television. But then

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>in other cases there's you know, all sorts of sexism

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and misogyny. So there are contradictions, but by and large, yeah,

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>it's I think still today, women, particularly teams of women

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>in those headline positions are still unfortunately pretty rare, and

0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:00.159
<v Speaker 2>you look at us talk shows, I mean Samantha be

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.800
<v Speaker 2>but beyond her again, there's this weird thing of we

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 2>just want to be put to bed by the men.

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, do you think that it was sort of protected

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 1>over the years by straight white males that you know,

0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 1>all straight white male presenters who couldn't bear to think

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:14.680
<v Speaker 1>that women might be more interesting than them.

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it becomes a self fulfilling thing, I think, in

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:21.879
<v Speaker 2>the sense that you know, if people have added a

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 2>female host to something and it hasn't rated, then people

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.320
<v Speaker 2>will be quoting that for the next twenty years, like

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:29.720
<v Speaker 2>the same way that when I started, you know, and

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I put a gay kiss in a script and was

0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 2>told this is going to drop twenty percent. They were

0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:36.560
<v Speaker 2>citing examples from two thousand. Maybe that was true in

0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.680
<v Speaker 2>two thousand, but it's hard to break the cycles when

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:43.720
<v Speaker 2>people when the executives have been there for forty years

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and they just are pretty you know, fixated on what

0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:48.639
<v Speaker 2>was happening ten to fifteen years ago. And I do

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:51.399
<v Speaker 2>think that that's part of the trickiness. I would say

0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:54.200
<v Speaker 2>in Australia there is a little bit of a culture

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:57.879
<v Speaker 2>of the executives in Australia tend to be their long

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:00.920
<v Speaker 2>term and I have noticed that with an American companies,

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>often there's a lot of turnover, Like you go into

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 2>those American streams that Netflix is really famous for, pretty

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.879
<v Speaker 2>high staff turnover. In Australia, a lot of our decision makers,

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them, you know, have been around since

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the eighties and the nineties and they're still the decision

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 2>makers in Australia.

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:17.399
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's nothing defametry about this, but in the early

0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:21.080
<v Speaker 1>nineties Denise Dreisdale hosted an episode of Hey, Hey, It's

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Saturday while Darryl Summers was away and the show didn't

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:27.400
<v Speaker 1>rate any differently, and you know, you think about those

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 1>telltale signs that the audience didn't care, but we just

0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:31.159
<v Speaker 1>ignored it.

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:31.439
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I do think often there are times where just give

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the audience a bit of credit. They might you might

0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>be surprised.

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, well, I think we're trying. I think we're

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:42.880
<v Speaker 1>still trying in lots of ways. And I get really

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>funny about people feeling you know a quote of these

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.280
<v Speaker 1>days when people say, oh, we need a queer person

0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>or we need to person in a person of color.

0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:52.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, I do want to see more equality on screen,

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 1>of course, but you know, where is the where is

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the meritocracy?

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:59.520
<v Speaker 2>It is always tricky with quotas. But on the other hand,

0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, on the other hand, sometimes I think it's

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.680
<v Speaker 2>just a practical way of forcing change and when changes

0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:07.760
<v Speaker 2>is resistant, then they can be really, really effective. And it

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 2>surprises me when I think back. Now, even at the

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.359
<v Speaker 2>start of my career, it was really common for me

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:14.800
<v Speaker 2>to be in writers' rooms and it was all white,

0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 2>middle class writers. And now that wouldn't happen. And it's

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:20.800
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily because of quotas, but there's much more of

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:25.520
<v Speaker 2>a sense. And also once you, i mean you suddenly

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 2>realize it, the room is so much better that when

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 2>there's like different perspectives and you know, on Five Bedrooms,

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we have a very diverse room on that show.

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>But early on we were working with Mattila Gupta, who

0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 2>and her input into the show is just absolutely made

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.120
<v Speaker 2>the show. The shows aren't imaginable without everything that she

0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:46.640
<v Speaker 2>has brought to it.

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>I think you also had Benjamin Law helping you with sisters,

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:50.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, like.

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's true, yes, yes, that again was a great Yeah,

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 2>we had a great room. There was a great room

0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:57.320
<v Speaker 2>for that. Rosie Woodland was in that room as well.

0:27:57.520 --> 0:28:00.159
<v Speaker 1>You know, with digital content being made independently now you know,

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.000
<v Speaker 1>you've got people popping up and making their own shows

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.080
<v Speaker 1>from home pretty much me right now. But do you

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.840
<v Speaker 1>think that will change the way in which the news

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 1>is reported? Because I think people thought the press was

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.920
<v Speaker 1>controlled by these billionaires, you know that owned those publishing companies,

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 1>which sort of meant that we're being educated and informed

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.680
<v Speaker 1>with a particular skew. Do you think that now could

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:22.960
<v Speaker 1>change the way in which we're told the news?

0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:25.399
<v Speaker 2>You can look it already has in lots of ways.

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I did spend some time in the ABC

0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.960
<v Speaker 2>newsroom for research for this, but of course that was

0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:34.119
<v Speaker 2>only of limited help because the whole way news is

0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 2>put together has changed. And in the eighties they went

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 2>out like the reporters would go out with not just

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a camera person but a soundo as well, and now

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>oftentimes they're just going out with their own digital equipment.

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:50.520
<v Speaker 2>They're a one man band, and oftentimes they're directly asking

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 2>the public to send in footage, which everyone everyone can

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 2>do now. So it's kind of revolutionized the way that

0:28:56.920 --> 0:28:59.200
<v Speaker 2>news is put together, and it meant that my spending

0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 2>time in the newsroom in twenty twenty was not that

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:04.960
<v Speaker 2>helpful in terms of trying to figure out nineteen eighty six.

0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, absolutely, and it comes with I mean, there's

0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:10.000
<v Speaker 2>great assets to it, but there's also dangers. There's the

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>dangers in it as well. And obviously trust in news

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 2>is low at the moment, and part of that is

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:19.280
<v Speaker 2>because there are so many different news sources and it

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 2>really we've got to develop our sort of literacy in

0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:25.960
<v Speaker 2>knowing which news sources to, you know, to gravitate towards

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and to trust. And I said, you know, I mean

0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I hate to bring up a trumpet slogan, but you know,

0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 2>the belief in fake news and then also inaccuracies in

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 2>news and is a really big problem that is not

0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:41.080
<v Speaker 2>helped in some ways by the fragmentation of you know,

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 2>all of the news bodies. I heard a podcast the

0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 2>other day which I thought was really interesting because they

0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:47.040
<v Speaker 2>got to the end of the podcast and they let

0:29:47.040 --> 0:29:50.080
<v Speaker 2>this guest talk at will, and then at the end

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:55.160
<v Speaker 2>of the podcast, the host came on and re clarified

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:59.000
<v Speaker 2>some of the mistakes that were made. I'm so interesting

0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>and it made me just this podcast more that you

0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>can have a guest come on and speak their truth,

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.280
<v Speaker 2>but then at the end of them just clarify Yeah,

0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:08.600
<v Speaker 2>it's like what we needed.

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.680
<v Speaker 1>With Donald Trump was down the bottom. Tweet away my friend,

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>you nutjob. But you know, let's have down the bottom.

0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that's one of the Yeah, the lessons

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:19.640
<v Speaker 2>of that era is that you have to call out

0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.720
<v Speaker 2>lives and accuracies at the time, because if you don't,

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 2>you're just creating, you know, a pathway to all kinds

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>of wreckage. But yeah, it's a really interesting time for

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>news at the moment. The Internet has revolutionized things and

0:30:34.280 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 2>the fact that all of us can be newsgatherers with

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 2>our phones in our pocket is Yeah, it's amazing in

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 2>some ways and problematic in others.

0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, if you had to list one or two

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 1>shows that were your favorite Australian programs growing up that

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of inspired you to come into this industry, what

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:51.440
<v Speaker 1>would they be.

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, look, I'm going to start with Frontline for pretty

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 2>obvious reasons. You can see there's some connections with the

0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:00.400
<v Speaker 2>news and I would say in general working dog as

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 2>a production company. I mean, I was in high school

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 2>when the Late Show was on and I was obsessed

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:09.760
<v Speaker 2>with it, and then to sort of follow that group

0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>and become a huge fan of Frontline and still today.

0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Those episodes really hold up there. You can see them

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>on stan God they're good, They're completely relevant. And I

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:21.760
<v Speaker 2>spent the entire development of Newsreader absolutely panicked that they

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.040
<v Speaker 2>were going to announce they were doing another season of Frontline,

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:25.640
<v Speaker 2>because if they did, I'm not sure we would have

0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:32.320
<v Speaker 2>got commissioned. Yeah, so Frontline absolutely really looms large in

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 2>my mind. And I mean I have to say Secret

0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Life of Us as well, because which again is having

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 2>a real moment on Netflix, but our Secret Life of Us.

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>I was just a little bit younger than those characters

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 2>on screen. I was in a sharehouse and I loved it.

0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:50.960
<v Speaker 2>It just felt like we had turned a new page

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 2>on Australian TV. Those actors were so charismatic, the writing

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:57.160
<v Speaker 2>was so good, and even watching it now, I think

0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the writing still feels really pretty fresh. And it's InCred

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to me that they made twenty two EPs a year

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and kept the standard that high. Simon, do you have

0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>a girlfriend? Yeah? Kind of what snay? Robert? Robert isn't

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>short for ROBERTA is it? Have you ever done it

0:32:14.920 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 2>with a girl?

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 3>Was it nice?

0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Very nice?

0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:20.480
<v Speaker 3>But you'd rather do it with boys?

0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Wouldn't you rather do it? With boys.

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not rather, it's just that I don't know just

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 1>like boys, I suppose say there was something to think about.

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:31.480
<v Speaker 1>But if boys like boys and girls like boys, who

0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:32.240
<v Speaker 1>likes the girls?

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Particularly Secret Life of Us. I went to one of

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 2>those sort of writers' festivals and I was studying screenwriting

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 2>at the time, and I saw Judy mccrosson, who was

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 2>one of the head writers on that, and the producer

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Amanda Higgs, and they talked about the process of making

0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that show and how they would tell stories about their

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 2>love lives and their housemates and how that would become

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.080
<v Speaker 2>the narrative of the show. And I remember sitting there going,

0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 2>that's what I want to do. That's more than anything.

0:32:57.560 --> 0:32:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I was sort of at a time in my life

0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 2>where I wasn't quite sure do I want to write

0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 2>movies or do I want to be a director? Maybe

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:03.840
<v Speaker 2>what I want to do, But when I heard the

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:05.800
<v Speaker 2>two of them speak, I thought, I want to work

0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 2>on a returning TV show and a relationship drama and

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 2>I just want to be in a room with great,

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:16.240
<v Speaker 2>interesting writers and pour our life stories onto the screen.

0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, those two Secret Life of arts in

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Frontline are going to be my two picks.

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Are you surprised we don't see more Australian drama on

0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:27.240
<v Speaker 1>film that is sort of less grim and more colloquial,

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:29.800
<v Speaker 1>because like, the thing I really liked about your film

0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:32.760
<v Speaker 1>was how much it didn't have to be said in Australia.

0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 1>It was still very Australian, but the subject matter meant

0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:38.920
<v Speaker 1>that it could be more colloquial without it being about

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 1>drugs or gangsters.

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:43.200
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I mean it's tricky with Australian films because

0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 2>often you know, with films, it's true now of television,

0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:48.600
<v Speaker 2>but with films, to put the financing together, you've got

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:51.360
<v Speaker 2>to get a lot of international money, and in terms

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 2>of an international financi you're putting in money to Australian

0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 2>films and then often they'll want a classic Australian vistas

0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 2>and the Outback and you know, something really uniquely Australian.

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.480
<v Speaker 2>So that same quality that you mentioned that you liked,

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 2>that I like too, and that works on television in

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:08.279
<v Speaker 2>things like Secret Life of Us is a little bit

0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:10.720
<v Speaker 2>trickier in film, Like for a film like not Suitable

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 2>for children, Well, why would American money go into that

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:16.080
<v Speaker 2>when they could do you know, they could do an

0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:19.160
<v Speaker 2>American a Judd Apatow version of that. So yeah, I mean,

0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I must admit I'm pretty in love with television now

0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:28.399
<v Speaker 2>even and I'd be surprised, actually if I went back

0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:30.960
<v Speaker 2>in time and spoke to myself how much I was

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>sort of going to be so content to completely move

0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:37.359
<v Speaker 2>away from feature films. But there's something about long, ongoing

0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 2>plot arcs that I really love, and also for me

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:43.920
<v Speaker 2>at least, something about having an ensemble of great actors

0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know, working with them over a period of

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 2>years and developing that relationship with them where you give

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 2>them particular material. I love that, And of course with film,

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean I love doing not suitable for children, and

0:34:54.880 --> 0:34:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just still to this day adore Ryan Quanton and

0:34:58.040 --> 0:35:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Sarah Snook and Ryan Core. But it was, you know,

0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.360
<v Speaker 2>it was seven weeks and we were done, and the

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 2>script was finished before they began. I mean, in some

0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 2>ways I almost wish that that show was a series,

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 2>because it would have been great to keep returning to

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 2>them and to develop that same relationship with those actors.

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:14.839
<v Speaker 1>A good question to ask is where do you see

0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:18.279
<v Speaker 1>the Australian film and television industry in ten years from now,

0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 1>do you think that streaming services might be the chance

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 1>to make more bold choices in storytelling?

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Absolutely, I mean everything's migrating, dramas migrating to streaming now.

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean I've been on the front line of it

0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 2>because The Five Bedrooms began as a network show and

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.440
<v Speaker 2>now it's on Paramount Plus and in most territories in

0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>the world it's on streaming. I think it's a good thing.

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean we're obviously at a peak time at the moment.

0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:46.200
<v Speaker 2>There are so many hours of drama being made, so

0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:49.720
<v Speaker 2>many I mean just unprecedented six hundred shows a year

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:53.359
<v Speaker 2>or something get made. I mean it's really exciting for us.

0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:57.839
<v Speaker 2>Like our newsreader is funded in a large part out

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:00.680
<v Speaker 2>of the UK, and Five Bedrooms as well, and so

0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 2>it does give it can give Australian work access to

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 2>bigger budgets. And of course, when when you're accessing the

0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>money of those international streamers, they want bold, noisy concepts,

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:15.280
<v Speaker 2>they want something really distinctive. There is a certain great

0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.319
<v Speaker 2>thing about you know, those classic Australian dramas that were

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:23.320
<v Speaker 2>broad put the whole family around. Definitely, streaming mostly demands

0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:27.400
<v Speaker 2>more more specific niches in terms of streaming. It's better

0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>to hit a niche audience and get a niche a

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:33.600
<v Speaker 2>smaller group of people obsessed with it. That's better than

0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>to have a broad group of people quite like it.

0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:39.480
<v Speaker 2>But for me, it's exciting and I feel like it'll

0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 2>be great for the industry, particularly if we can get

0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:45.399
<v Speaker 2>quotas put on the streamers. That if we can get

0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>quotas put on Netflix and all of those international streamers,

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:51.719
<v Speaker 2>then there will be an amazing renaissance. I mean there

0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.600
<v Speaker 2>already is an amazing amount of Australian shows being made

0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:57.440
<v Speaker 2>for the streamers, but that would kick it to the

0:36:57.480 --> 0:36:57.959
<v Speaker 2>next level.

0:36:57.960 --> 0:36:59.719
<v Speaker 1>I think, well, you know, it's interesting, you know, with

0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Kiben making Nine Perfect Strangers here in Australia at the moment,

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:05.560
<v Speaker 1>do you think that that will give actresses like you know,

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Asha Ketty more of a global platform because some of

0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:11.240
<v Speaker 1>our television actors are some of the best television actors

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:14.200
<v Speaker 1>in the world. When you're looking at these streaming services

0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:17.200
<v Speaker 1>internationally and you can see some of these shows like

0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Offspring next to an American show or UK show, people

0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:23.840
<v Speaker 1>just come across. You know, surely we're going to have

0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.719
<v Speaker 1>people because I mean, Laudia carbon Asha Ketty. There's so

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:29.440
<v Speaker 1>many of kat Stewart's, so many of the best television

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:31.319
<v Speaker 1>actors in the world, and we're lucky to still have

0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:33.840
<v Speaker 1>them in Australia. Do you reckon people are going to

0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 1>try and snap them up and take them elsewhere.

0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I mean, I even think of the Danish Showborgan,

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:44.400
<v Speaker 2>that the brilliant actress that plays the prime minister in

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.280
<v Speaker 2>that show. You know, she popped up in all these

0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, she was in Westworld, and you know, I mean,

0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:53.120
<v Speaker 2>I know very well that Asher is this incredible actress.

0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:57.319
<v Speaker 2>And Offspring has really got traction on Netflix, like it's

0:37:57.360 --> 0:37:59.720
<v Speaker 2>still to this day. I'm amazed at how many people.

0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm just one of the writers on it,

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and the amount of social media traffic I get that

0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:07.240
<v Speaker 2>people still, you know, blowing up over the bit where

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Patrick dies is incredible. I can't let you go. It's

0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 2>not what you're doing, but I have to keep leaving somehow.

0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 2>For me, it's a really exciting era because even when

0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>we began, when I began, you know, Offspring was just

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 2>a domestic show. It was hugely successful in Australia, but

0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 2>it didn't really travel. Now it's got this whole life

0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:31.680
<v Speaker 2>overseas and certainly for something like five Bedrooms Now Australia

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.880
<v Speaker 2>is just one part of our rollout, like where we

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:38.719
<v Speaker 2>start in the US in a week and we're on Peacock,

0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:42.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, which has shows like Girls five ever and

0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 2>it sits really well on that platform. So I yeah,

0:38:46.360 --> 0:38:49.720
<v Speaker 2>it really will change the way people approach their careers.

0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 2>And I do think for people like Asha and Claudia

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:54.759
<v Speaker 2>and everyone that old thing of where you've just got

0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:57.120
<v Speaker 2>to go over to LA and do the best you

0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:59.319
<v Speaker 2>can for as long as it takes or whatever, that

0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I think will change. I think if work here travels,

0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:04.440
<v Speaker 2>then they'll be noticed because they're brilliant. Just to go

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.920
<v Speaker 2>back just a second, though, you didn't kill Patrick on Offspring.

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.279
<v Speaker 2>You're not responsible for that. I I'm definitely one of

0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 2>the murderers. Yeah, I hate to say it, but no,

0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean Deborah Oswald is the creator of Offspring and

0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:19.560
<v Speaker 2>she was the head writer, so maybe it can more

0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:22.080
<v Speaker 2>hang on her than me. But no, it was primarily

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.000
<v Speaker 2>plotted by myself and Jonathan Gavin and with deb in charge.

0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:28.920
<v Speaker 2>But no, I was there. I was there, we yep,

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and I was on board with it. I was on

0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 2>board with it. I felt like it was the right choice.

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Do you know how many women in Australia or the

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:38.840
<v Speaker 1>world that was sitting there with a shaton Eh glass

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.680
<v Speaker 1>of white wine bawling their eyes out and plotting your

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 1>death if they know it?

0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Well? I know because I at the time, I was

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:46.920
<v Speaker 2>actually the only one of the writers that was on

0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:50.200
<v Speaker 2>social media on Twitter, and believe me, I heard about

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:52.239
<v Speaker 2>it and still to this day, like it's one of

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:55.080
<v Speaker 2>those things that you know, I'll go to a wedding

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 2>and people will say, yeah, well he worked on Offspring

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:00.520
<v Speaker 2>and then someone will go, oh my god, when Pat

0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.320
<v Speaker 2>It's just one of those things.

0:40:02.320 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 1>But I reckon there would be some satisfaction in knowing

0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.359
<v Speaker 1>that a piece of your writing has connected like that.

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.760
<v Speaker 1>To imagine that your writing has compelled an audience.

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's what I mean. The biggest thing that

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:15.920
<v Speaker 2>you hope for when you write anything, it's just that

0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:19.560
<v Speaker 2>an audience will care. They'll care about the characters, and

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.920
<v Speaker 2>obviously with Offspring, they just especially by season four, they

0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:26.879
<v Speaker 2>cared so much about Nina and Patrick that they were

0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:30.040
<v Speaker 2>legitimately grief stricken, and even though it was a little

0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:33.680
<v Speaker 2>bit full on and especially considering that I was new

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.359
<v Speaker 2>to Twitter at the time, and you know, I think

0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.760
<v Speaker 2>so Twitter in general was pretty new at the time,

0:40:39.120 --> 0:40:41.480
<v Speaker 2>so it was a pretty startling thing to go through.

0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I only ever saw it as a

0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:47.080
<v Speaker 2>positive because I felt like, well, you know, it worked

0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:49.839
<v Speaker 2>what we were creating with the cast and with the

0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 2>directors and everything like that. People were invested. And sure

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 2>they might be really furious at me and sending me

0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 2>weird little wanted posters with my face cut and paste

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:01.680
<v Speaker 2>on it, but it just shows they cared.

0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:03.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually fascinated with the fact that you've got so

0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.040
<v Speaker 1>many shows on television, you know, coming up, and you've

0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:08.239
<v Speaker 1>got you know, Five Bedrooms, which is just launched on

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Paramount Plus watch series. Why not watching series two? Was

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 1>there a second season soft reboot to Five Bedrooms as

0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:17.440
<v Speaker 1>it started? Because I felt like the second series allowed

0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:19.759
<v Speaker 1>audience to just pick it up without even needing the

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 1>first to watch the series.

0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:24.520
<v Speaker 2>We were certainly very conscious of the fact that when

0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 2>we came into series two we did sort of like

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:30.319
<v Speaker 2>encapsulate the premise. Again, a lot of this was a

0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:32.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of our hand was forced in a way because

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.440
<v Speaker 2>we lost the house we shot in first season, We've

0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 2>got a great house. We've got great houses for all

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.760
<v Speaker 2>the seasons, but first season we're in this great house,

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and then the owner was going to completely renovate it

0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:44.880
<v Speaker 2>so and make it really deluxe, so we couldn't shoot

0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:46.920
<v Speaker 2>there again. We had to find a new house, and

0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:49.400
<v Speaker 2>we did, so it meant that season two began with

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.880
<v Speaker 2>again house purchasing, so in that respect, it felt like

0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:55.239
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a reset. But it's an interesting one

0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:58.239
<v Speaker 2>with five bedrooms because it's obviously, you know, it's a

0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:01.120
<v Speaker 2>serialized story. It's quite different to a lot of things

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:04.160
<v Speaker 2>that I've written in that each episode goes to one

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 2>of the characters, and hopefully in that episode you get

0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 2>It's not a self contained story because all the ongoing

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:12.320
<v Speaker 2>stories are going on, but you invest in that character

0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 2>and you should get you know, with every episode, we

0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:18.600
<v Speaker 2>aspire to give you a really well rounded, little emotional journey.

0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:21.880
<v Speaker 2>So to a certain extent, we hope it is the

0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:25.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of show that you can drop in and hopefully

0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:27.160
<v Speaker 2>in the first few minutes of the show you'll suddenly

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.279
<v Speaker 2>get this is the dilemma in this episode, and you

0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 2>will get some sort of emotional resolution to it. In

0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:36.640
<v Speaker 2>the episode. Yeah, so that's probably what you're picking up

0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:39.880
<v Speaker 2>on in watching it, which is quite different to say Offspring,

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:42.840
<v Speaker 2>which is always Nina. And if you haven't been watching

0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:45.480
<v Speaker 2>the last episode with Nina, then you're going to be

0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:46.840
<v Speaker 2>lost coming into the new one.

0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it's really clever, but I think it's also

0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:51.680
<v Speaker 1>a testament to who you are as a collaborator, as

0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.560
<v Speaker 1>a writer, as a storyteller, as a script producer. I

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 1>think it's the diversity of these two shows, Like how

0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:00.319
<v Speaker 1>amazing is it to have these two shows something on

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the ABC like The news Reader and then have five

0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:06.239
<v Speaker 1>bedrooms on you know, Paramount plus chaneld ten sort of thing,

0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:09.880
<v Speaker 1>like they're just so different but still so amazing. And

0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 1>it ties me back to the first thing I said

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:14.879
<v Speaker 1>to you, which is you know. It's it's the way

0:43:14.920 --> 0:43:18.920
<v Speaker 1>in which you understand the characters. You know, it's the

0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:21.399
<v Speaker 1>way in which you write those characters. There's something that's

0:43:21.600 --> 0:43:23.960
<v Speaker 1>similar in all of your work which I can see,

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and it's your ability to believe these characters. It's the

0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:28.560
<v Speaker 1>nuances that you see.

0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Likely.

0:43:30.120 --> 0:43:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm always in your audience, but my last question

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>before you go is something that I ask all my

0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 1>guests and that is what is an amazing story from

0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes of the news reader that we as

0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 1>an audience would appreciate.

0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:44.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I feels like there's a lot to talk

0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:46.880
<v Speaker 2>about there. Look, it's hard for me with the newsreader

0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 2>to go past just some of the stuff with COVID

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:51.640
<v Speaker 2>because we were in the surreal thing of you know,

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:55.040
<v Speaker 2>we're crafting nineteen eighty six, but in twenty twenty and

0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:58.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one, and there are a couple of real

0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:01.080
<v Speaker 2>COVID we always we started to refer to them as

0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.880
<v Speaker 2>COVID curveballs. But I would say that probably the biggest

0:44:04.880 --> 0:44:07.319
<v Speaker 2>one was we have an episode that is set in

0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Darwin for the Lindy Chamberlain's trial, and we were going

0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 2>to shoot that at the real jail where she was imprisoned,

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.319
<v Speaker 2>and we'd location scouted and then everything was ready, and

0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.960
<v Speaker 2>then we had an outbreak in Melbourne and they shut

0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:23.239
<v Speaker 2>the borders and we couldn't get there, and it was

0:44:23.280 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 2>an absolute disaster, and all our flights were booked, all

0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 2>our accommodation was booked, and a torf was already looking

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:32.799
<v Speaker 2>into we were going to go see the jumping crocodiles

0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.880
<v Speaker 2>like it was I had contacted friends in Darwin. We

0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 2>were so on the brink of it, and so then

0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:43.200
<v Speaker 2>we scrambled and we thought, okay, okay, okay. Let's Emma

0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Freeman had shot Stateless in Port Augusta, so we thought

0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:48.399
<v Speaker 2>we'll move that. We got a location scout out there,

0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and we desperately like tried to like get the production

0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:53.920
<v Speaker 2>ready to go to Port Augusta, and then right on

0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:56.799
<v Speaker 2>the brink of that, then South Australia shut there Port

0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.319
<v Speaker 2>it too, and so we lost what did your film? It?

0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:04.399
<v Speaker 2>Then Midura because we finally accepted that it's just got

0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.759
<v Speaker 2>to be Victoria. We can't leave Victoria, but where? And

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I have to say that in the end, Mildura was

0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.759
<v Speaker 2>amazing and the locals really got behind it, and I

0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:18.879
<v Speaker 2>think I had underrested. I mean, Mildura is you know

0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 2>not It's closer to kind of Broken Hill than it

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.399
<v Speaker 2>is to Melbourne, and it had the red dirt. It's

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:28.000
<v Speaker 2>not tropical, it's much more desert. But yeah, so we

0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:32.480
<v Speaker 2>ended up going to Mildura and then any We were

0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>basically looking for any fragment of Mildura that had palm trees.

0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 2>If there was a palm tree in Mildura. I can

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:41.760
<v Speaker 2>tell you we filmed it and everything so carefully, carefully

0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:44.520
<v Speaker 2>framed so that it looks like Darwin. But I mean,

0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.359
<v Speaker 2>that was the most ridiculous thing that happened, just I mean,

0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I could understand one border closing, but to have one

0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:54.320
<v Speaker 2>and then another was just kind of unbelievable. But we

0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:55.320
<v Speaker 2>still got it made.

0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:59.239
<v Speaker 1>I read someone yesterday online said I can't wait for

0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:01.800
<v Speaker 1>this TV but if there's no smoking in the newsroom,

0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 1>then it's not real. And then I thought to myself, well,

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:06.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know whether or not when you were making

0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:08.759
<v Speaker 1>this show, whether or not you'd be allowed to even have,

0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:10.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, pretend smoke that they do in TV and

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:12.799
<v Speaker 1>film because of COVID, you know what I mean, Like

0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:13.880
<v Speaker 1>we're so parent.

0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:16.240
<v Speaker 2>It was a real question. That was a real question,

0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 2>and there were different classifications for different smoke machines, but

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:24.440
<v Speaker 2>the one that we had was approved to create the

0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:27.200
<v Speaker 2>myst I have to say, it smelt disgusting and I

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:30.560
<v Speaker 2>thought it was giving me headaches. I kept on I

0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:32.600
<v Speaker 2>felt really sorry for the cast, and I kept racing

0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 2>outside and sort of heaving in the air. But apparently

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:38.080
<v Speaker 2>it was COVID safe and it looked great on screen.

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's just got that misty look that is

0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:44.359
<v Speaker 2>perfect for that smoking newsroom. But god, it was, it was.

0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:46.879
<v Speaker 2>It was awful. It was awful. Oh my god.

0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:50.000
<v Speaker 1>I just want to say you are a fantastic collaborator.

0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:52.719
<v Speaker 1>You are an amazing storyteller. We're so lucky to have

0:46:52.800 --> 0:46:55.200
<v Speaker 1>you telling stories here in Australia. I can't wait to

0:46:55.239 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 1>still be in your audience.

0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.080
<v Speaker 2>For people, the cheers.

0:46:57.840 --> 0:47:01.360
<v Speaker 1>That that don't watch the ABC because they're idiots, you know,

0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 1>go and watch the ABC, you know, on Sunday night,

0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.760
<v Speaker 1>because this show is just brilliant. I think there's something.

0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:11.680
<v Speaker 2>In fro into iView anytime you want. It's free. One

0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of these people complaining to me about paramount plus I

0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:16.520
<v Speaker 2>have to pay for five bedrooms now, and so I

0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:19.040
<v Speaker 2>just want to say to everyone that newsreader will be one,

0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:21.040
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent free. You've paid for it as an

0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Australian taxpayer. Click on go for gold.

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you so much for being able to It

0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:30.320
<v Speaker 1>was fun, we went for we went on a few tangents.

0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:33.239
<v Speaker 2>We did enjoy and that the wine was wonderful and

0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:34.560
<v Speaker 2>so was the company. So thank you.