Speaker 1: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and
Speaker 1: on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television. This week I managed to
Speaker 1: launch a midweek TV Reload series with Simon me who
Speaker 1: is the latest person to be eliminated from Australian Survivor.
Speaker 1: This will divide the type of guests that I have
Speaker 1: on the show, keeping actors and presenters and reality TV
Speaker 1: contestants midweek and then the people from behind the scenes
Speaker 1: on the main episode. I hope you will enjoy the
Speaker 1: stories from both podcasts. As I continue to grow and
Speaker 1: improve the show, I have some great episodes coming up.
Speaker 1: Next week I will have a main actor from Five Bedrooms,
Speaker 1: which is now on Paramount Plus, and then next Saturday
Speaker 1: I will have an episode from one of the biggest
Speaker 1: rating shows on Free to Wear. I wonder if you
Speaker 1: guys can pick which show that is. Also, as you
Speaker 1: guys know, I love to give a recommendation for another podcast,
Speaker 1: and this week I've been listening to watch What Happens
Speaker 1: Live with Andy Cohen. He had Lisa Rinner on the
Speaker 1: podcast and she's kind of nuts, but the right kind
Speaker 1: of nut in my mind, and Obviously, Rena was on
Speaker 1: the show to talk about the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,
Speaker 1: which is a guilty pleasure of mine. This week, I
Speaker 1: have watched the first two episodes of Wentworth on Foxtail,
Speaker 1: which will premiere on the twenty fourth of August, and
Speaker 1: I also watch the finale of White Lotus which is
Speaker 1: on Binge that'll be out on Monday. Sadly, Wentworth will
Speaker 1: rap for good at the end of this series, but
Speaker 1: the good news is White Lotus is getting a second
Speaker 1: series and that's kind of made up for that departure. Obviously,
Speaker 1: both shows are very different but brilliantly written. Nonetheless. This
Speaker 1: week in the TV ratings on Free to Wear, we
Speaker 1: have seen the Olympics on Channel seven really trail off
Speaker 1: some huge numbers for The Voice and Home and Away,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure the team at Channel seven are thrilled with.
Speaker 1: It's certainly going to be interesting to see how the
Speaker 1: rest of the year pans out with shows like The
Speaker 1: Mass Singer on Network ten and Love Island on Channel nine.
Speaker 1: One thing is for sure, it is a tough market
Speaker 1: for eyeballs and I hope there is something for everyone
Speaker 1: as the year pans out. This week on the podcast,
Speaker 1: I have Michael Lucas here to chat about The Newsreader
Speaker 1: on ABC, which debuts this Sunday nine at eight thirty.
Speaker 1: Michael Lucas is a writer, producer and scriptwriter. He's worked
Speaker 1: on successful shows right across several genres, from relationship dramedies
Speaker 1: of Offspring, to the prison thriller of Wentworth, the political
Speaker 1: drama of Party Tricks, and the comedy sensation on ABC
Speaker 1: called rose Haven. He has been working behind the scenes
Speaker 1: with some iconic television moments like Patrick's death on Offspring
Speaker 1: and B's death on Wentworth, and while those two may
Speaker 1: seem kind of bleak, he's also cultivated and created some
Speaker 1: of the best TV characters of this generation. He is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite television creators and I actually notice
Speaker 1: his work in everything that he does. Today, as we
Speaker 1: focus on The Newsreader, we will discuss sexism in the newsroom,
Speaker 1: the games LGBTI people have made on Australian television, and
Speaker 1: of course how the show was researched and put together. However,
Speaker 1: let's get started with today's guest. I would like to
Speaker 1: welcome you and Michael Lucas to TV Reload.
Speaker 2: The Truth is When I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with the news. Good evening and
Speaker 2: welcome to news at six. I'm pretty unabashed when it
Speaker 2: comes to putting the personalities of people that I know
Speaker 2: in drama.
Speaker 1: I thought I was reading the Thatcher's story.
Speaker 2: I pitched it to the ABC. I wrote it on
Speaker 2: spec second explosion here on Russell Street today. Yes, it
Speaker 2: is fair to say that she's definitely part of the inspiration,
Speaker 2: but there were Many's going to be a special rule.
Speaker 2: It is remarkable how long it took for just women
Speaker 2: to be newsreaders in general.
Speaker 1: Hey, mate, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm really well, Ben, how are you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good. Now, full disclosure, You're drinking wine at
Speaker 1: your end and I'm not drinking wine at mine.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if one of us sounds noticeably more sober
Speaker 2: than the other, that's why.
Speaker 1: Well we'll see if people notice. Now let's get into this.
Speaker 1: I remember watching Not Suitable for Children, your first feature film,
Speaker 1: in twenty two twelve, and thinking there was something really
Speaker 1: compelling about the way in which you understood and portrayed
Speaker 1: Australian characters. Is there an enormous amount of people watching
Speaker 1: in your life?
Speaker 2: I would say, so, I rip off my family and friends,
Speaker 2: and I've got a big circle of friends, and I've
Speaker 2: got a big sort of weird family, I guess, and
Speaker 2: I find them really entertaining. I think I just find
Speaker 2: people entertaining, particularly people that I know well. And I'm
Speaker 2: pretty unabashed when it comes to sort of putting the
Speaker 2: personalities of people that I know in drama, and they
Speaker 2: recognize themselves and they certainly let me know. In fact,
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm really lazy. I even give them the same names,
Speaker 2: which is a real mistake.
Speaker 1: Bad idea. That means that you're guilty straight away by
Speaker 1: a mission. You know, there's no mystery there. But look,
Speaker 1: you have worked on so many of my favorite shows
Speaker 1: in Australia. If you could go back past your work
Speaker 1: on Offspring, Wentworth, Party Tricks or Incredible Shows, just to
Speaker 1: name a few, and tell yourself something that you've learnt
Speaker 1: over the years, what would you say, Like, what have
Speaker 1: those shows taught you? Almost like giving yourself a superpower.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I would tell myself stop worrying so much. It's
Speaker 2: a privilege to be able to do what you're doing.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the time that you spend on
Speaker 2: anxiety about how things are going to work out. I'd
Speaker 2: probably say to myself, some things are going to work,
Speaker 2: some things aren't, but you're going to go on. Don't
Speaker 2: act as though everything that you write and work on
Speaker 2: is life or death or your career is hinged on it,
Speaker 2: because I feel like I sort of burnt myself out
Speaker 2: in the early part of my career just because every
Speaker 2: single time I worked on something, I felt like everything
Speaker 2: was on the line, and if it didn't work, I
Speaker 2: was crushed.
Speaker 1: Hm.
Speaker 2: I feel like I just sort of lost a lot
Speaker 2: of time and energy to that, and I wish I
Speaker 2: wish I could go back to myself and say, basically,
Speaker 2: chill out a little bit, just try and enjoy the
Speaker 2: process a bit more. I'm trying to become better at
Speaker 2: that as I get older.
Speaker 1: And no one's going to sue you and you've stolen
Speaker 1: their character rights too.
Speaker 2: No, your aunt and uncle will be very unhappy, but no,
Speaker 2: there will not be any legal action.
Speaker 1: I'll get over it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, the show we're talking about today is The news Reader,
Speaker 1: which is going to debut this Sunday, the fifteenth of
Speaker 1: August on ABC.
Speaker 3: Mate, how well do you know Helen we know hello
Speaker 3: sometimes then you know she's very very set on these
Speaker 3: special reports, right, Yes, what I really need now is
Speaker 3: a blake with some chops to go help with her,
Speaker 3: help her shoot, help her put the story together. You
Speaker 3: do this for me on Monday, then maybe I can
Speaker 3: give you a shot and an update on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Deal.
Speaker 3: You got to watch yourself with the RK, because she's
Speaker 3: going to hit you with a lot of shitty ideas
Speaker 3: about cross eyed single mother's aides and christ Days.
Speaker 2: What else your job is to better away.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with this show. It is so good. It'll
Speaker 1: be out weekly, but I have been lucky enough to
Speaker 1: see the first four episodes. I actually texted Emma Freeman,
Speaker 1: the director for those of you who are playing at home,
Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, this show is so good,
Speaker 1: and she replied, just wait episode.
Speaker 2: No. It's a show that kind of reveals itself as
Speaker 2: it goes on. I mean, I hope that it's, you know,
Speaker 2: automatically pretty compelling, but you don't really get the measure
Speaker 2: of what it's fully about in the early episodes. And
Speaker 2: it's been really interesting speaking to people because some people
Speaker 2: have just seen the first episode and so they see
Speaker 2: it in a particular way. But then people like you
Speaker 2: that are deep into it are starting to realize more things.
Speaker 2: And then if people have got to the end, that's
Speaker 2: not level again. So I hope you. I hope you
Speaker 2: liked the last two.
Speaker 1: I wondered, how did the show find its way onto
Speaker 1: the ABC?
Speaker 2: I pitched it to the ABC. I wrote it on SPEC.
Speaker 2: I was at a period of time in my career
Speaker 2: where I was taking contracts writing episodes on other people's shows.
Speaker 2: Because I had this period of time like on Offspring
Speaker 2: and Party Tricks and Not Suitable for Children, where I
Speaker 2: was felt responsible for the whole production in lots of ways,
Speaker 2: I mean as a writer, and that was exhausting. And
Speaker 2: then I had this period of time where I thought,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna just work on an episode here and
Speaker 2: there on other people's projects like rose Haven, and went
Speaker 2: work and I mean, in my that funded me to
Speaker 2: just develop my own scripts off my own bat and
Speaker 2: I started working on The news Reader and I took
Speaker 2: it to the ABC. It felt like an ABC show
Speaker 2: to me. And also I thought, it's going to have
Speaker 2: a lot of news archives, and I know that the
Speaker 2: ABC has those news archives. Yeah, And because I was
Speaker 2: working on Rosehan, I developed a contact with the ABC
Speaker 2: executives and so I was able to just sort of
Speaker 2: shoot them an email and say, I'd love to show
Speaker 2: you this script and see what you think. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: that's how that's how it wound up there.
Speaker 1: Well, it's amazing. And I really liked the newsroom in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, which was you know, on HBO, and I
Speaker 1: wondered if there was any inspiration from you watching that show.
Speaker 2: Well, See, the thing for me is I think I
Speaker 2: love almost anything set in a newsroom, like, and I
Speaker 2: mean across genres, like I loved Anchorman, I love Frontline,
Speaker 2: I love Press Gang, I love the newsroom. Like it's
Speaker 2: almost like I love to die for. It's almost like
Speaker 2: you can't set something in a newsroom without me liking it.
Speaker 2: There's just something about the environment that I find really
Speaker 2: really exciting. And it doesn't matter whether it's comedy, drama
Speaker 2: or romantic comedy. I'm just always happy to be there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and the newsroom in particular, the main thing
Speaker 2: is that the newsroom used real stories and they were reporting.
Speaker 2: In the case of the newsroom, it with stories from
Speaker 2: just a couple of years prior. But that I loved it.
Speaker 2: I love that and I thought it was so much
Speaker 2: better than having them report on sort of imagined fake stories,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, it was a massive influence.
Speaker 1: Well, the setting of actual eighties Australian news events with
Speaker 1: characters that are fictionalized is just brilliant. How did that
Speaker 1: concept come about?
Speaker 2: Well, actually it was a really long development time, and weirdly,
Speaker 2: the truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with the news. I started writing
Speaker 2: it writing the character of Dale that Sam Reid plays,
Speaker 2: and I just really wanted to write a leading man
Speaker 2: that was sort of trying to be this particular image
Speaker 2: of masculinity and sort of forcing himself to be a
Speaker 2: kind of persona that wasn't a natural fit. I'd always
Speaker 2: wanted to have a show with a main character like that.
Speaker 2: Is it a vocal thing? Because I have been working
Speaker 2: with a vocal coach all summer? He actually worked with
Speaker 2: Jack Thompson.
Speaker 3: You want to get your money back, Dale, He doesn't
Speaker 3: stand in me like Jack Thompson.
Speaker 2: I always just thought there was a lot of comedy
Speaker 2: and drama in that, and I related to it, and
Speaker 2: then really early on I decided, well, I'll pair him
Speaker 2: with a woman who has those sort of alpha traits,
Speaker 2: but she's punished for them. And so I was sort
Speaker 2: of writing a relationship drama between the two of them,
Speaker 2: and I set it in the eighties to make the
Speaker 2: sort of gender expectations that much more potent. And it
Speaker 2: was actually like quite a way in that I was
Speaker 2: just thinking about, Okay, what's his goal though? What is
Speaker 2: he what is the image that he wanted? Should he
Speaker 2: be a politician or a sportsman? And then at a
Speaker 2: certain point I thought a newsreader. I don't know, Dale said,
Speaker 2: but even when he was very little, he used to
Speaker 2: watch the news every night from about seven years old.
Speaker 2: He'd watch every second right through to the weather. They
Speaker 2: were like the ultimate state men with their deep voices.
Speaker 2: And so once I decided to make his goal be
Speaker 2: a newsreader, I started researching newsrooms and then I just
Speaker 2: became obsessed with the culture. How funny is that when
Speaker 2: you think about so many of the male newsreaders I
Speaker 2: know them are closeted, you know, like, once you start
Speaker 2: sort of digging a little bit deeper. And I was
Speaker 2: on the phone to a journalist today and then we
Speaker 2: just started spitbowling the names and we're like this person
Speaker 2: this person, so it's kind of a very fascinating setting.
Speaker 2: But you know, the character that Sam Reid plays, which
Speaker 2: is Dale Jennings, he sort of encapsulates that struggle with
Speaker 2: coming to terms with your sexuality. So well, you know,
Speaker 2: was that easy to navigate for you? Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It certainly came very easy to me. But then in
Speaker 2: the construction of the show, it it was It was
Speaker 2: interesting in the construction, how do we reveal certain things
Speaker 2: about these characters. We present them at the beginning in
Speaker 2: a particular way, and then bit by bit we reveal
Speaker 2: more and just getting the balance right with that was
Speaker 2: quite tricky. But I mean, Sam, who's just an incredible actor,
Speaker 2: and Emma Freeman is amazing director. The calibration of that
Speaker 2: took some work. But in terms of tuning in to
Speaker 2: his yearning and his pain, that was easy for me.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel it and know it and feel
Speaker 2: like it was such a defining part of my life,
Speaker 2: so it was not a hard thing for me to
Speaker 2: write at all. I'm committed to Helen. I care about
Speaker 2: it deeply.
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to do is hurt her,
Speaker 1: So please don't tell anyone of course, so palpable, like
Speaker 1: it just elevated me. Do you think we've come a
Speaker 1: long way in regard to homosexuality in the media.
Speaker 2: Look, I would say yes for homosexuality, Yeah, I really,
Speaker 2: I really would, because I mean, I know that a
Speaker 2: lot of people would still feel are There are plenty
Speaker 2: of people that are still closeted, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: But certainly the notion that to be an outgay person
Speaker 2: is going to be a career killer, I think that's
Speaker 2: really started to ebb away. And you know, I mean
Speaker 2: we have in Melbourne Peter Hitchener is openly gay and
Speaker 2: he's just beloved. He's the ultimate newsreader in Melbourne. I
Speaker 2: don't know, he switched on the radio and Joel Creasy's
Speaker 2: on nov and so I actually think one of the
Speaker 2: really remarkable things about the past thirty years has been
Speaker 2: that journey from where we were at in the eighties
Speaker 2: and nineties to now. And I'm not saying that there
Speaker 2: is an ult you know, there obviously there's still a
Speaker 2: lot of prejudice and there's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: are struggling. But for me, it's an optimistic journey because
Speaker 2: it shows changes possible, changes possible and things can actually
Speaker 2: change pretty quickly, like where we're at now in lots
Speaker 2: of ways. I'm married and to my husband, and you know,
Speaker 2: if you told me even in two thousand and even
Speaker 2: twenty ten, I think I probably would have really doubted
Speaker 2: that that would be possible. And I'm probably naturally an optimist,
Speaker 2: but I think in regards to homosexuality, I feel like
Speaker 2: there really has been progress in.
Speaker 1: Australia, absolutely, you know, and there's been those trailblazers as well,
Speaker 1: you know, like you mentioned Joel. You know, it's amazing,
Speaker 1: you know. I remember in twenty twelve auditioning for a
Speaker 1: radio show and they said to me, you know, this
Speaker 1: is national so they didn't think I would be the
Speaker 1: right fit because I was too gay, and they had
Speaker 1: that conversation with me in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: And I remember on early even this is you know,
Speaker 2: in twenty ten, twenty eleven, the start of my writing career,
Speaker 2: I remember getting notes about you can have those two
Speaker 2: male characters kissed, but you know what, you're going to
Speaker 2: lose thirty percent of your audience. That was said to me,
Speaker 2: and people believed it, and people felt people could pull
Speaker 2: out old ratings reports and say yeah, no, it's absolutely
Speaker 2: you will just lose your straight male audience if you
Speaker 2: put that in. And I really feel like I noticed
Speaker 2: another show that I work on, Five Bedrooms. I've noticed
Speaker 2: that both seasons they've put gay male kisses in the trailer.
Speaker 2: And if you told me back in twenty ten and
Speaker 2: eleven that one day they'll promote shows with gay romance
Speaker 2: in it, I just wouldn't have believed it. I was
Speaker 2: watching the first episode of series two of Five Bedrooms
Speaker 2: today and loving it, and I just thought there was
Speaker 2: a scene where there was it was so weird to
Speaker 2: me because they were hooking up, and I just remember
Speaker 2: being like, Oh, this show is so great.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh my god, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have seen this in House Husbands in twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: You know, we had to have masculine actors playing gay
Speaker 1: roles to sort of bridge the gap in a way,
Speaker 1: you know. Crazy. And then also Hugh Sheridan being on
Speaker 1: this show, being that he's now open about his sexuality,
Speaker 1: him playing a straight character is very.
Speaker 2: Straight, actually impregnated two women in the.
Speaker 1: Show, and I'm like, but I'm like, wow, this is
Speaker 1: this is just mind boggling.
Speaker 2: I know, and actually that scene at the start of
Speaker 2: Five Bedroom season two, Yeah, it was absolutely great because
Speaker 2: you know, it's no secret that those two actors, Roy
Speaker 2: and Matt Baker are both gay, and you know, acting
Speaker 2: is acting nonetheless, the way that they charge at those kisses. Yeah,
Speaker 2: even for me when I looked at it, I was like,
Speaker 2: still today, it's kind of startling to see it. And
Speaker 2: of course, you know, House Husband's was incredibly progressive for
Speaker 2: when it for that time. It's still quite a recent show,
Speaker 2: but they did a gay wedding on there, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I think for me it's just indicative of how happily
Speaker 2: in that respect, how fast things have changed in this
Speaker 2: really condensed space of time.
Speaker 1: Well, moving on to Anatov, who is just so good
Speaker 1: in this role. How quickly did she get attached to
Speaker 1: the project?
Speaker 2: She was attached at the start of twenty twenty. She's
Speaker 2: worked with Emma Freeman before, they made a Secret City together,
Speaker 2: and you know, she's just would be at the top
Speaker 2: of so many people's lists, and she had just come
Speaker 2: off mind Hunter, which was extraordinary and she was extraordinary
Speaker 2: in it. So I thought she'll be a long shot,
Speaker 2: but happily because of the pandemic, she'd come back to
Speaker 2: Australia and so I felt like that put us in
Speaker 2: good position. The fact that she loves Emma as well
Speaker 2: and Joe Werner, who produced it also was a great boon.
Speaker 2: But in some ways for me, she's kind of like
Speaker 2: fantasy casting someone you really dream of because of the
Speaker 2: extraordinary series she's been in and her and Sam actually
Speaker 2: really from early on we're both lingering there on the
Speaker 2: lists and we're just really really lucky that we managed
Speaker 2: to find this place in time where they got it,
Speaker 2: they were open to it and signed on.
Speaker 1: Well, and it has the right amount of femininity and
Speaker 1: masculinity that represented, you know, the journalists who were on
Speaker 1: TV in the eighties. Obviously, you have to accept that
Speaker 1: telling stories means sometimes telling danger stories. Gadarthi has been
Speaker 1: described on occasion as the world's most dangerous man. Did
Speaker 1: you interview many of those iconic newsreaders to get that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had interview to a huge number of people
Speaker 2: who worked in newsrooms. I was a little bit careful
Speaker 2: in terms of interviewing some of the really famous newsreaders
Speaker 2: because I was reluctant. I just wouldn't want anyone to
Speaker 2: think I was trying to tell their particular story. So
Speaker 2: for someone like, for example, Peter Hitchener, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a lot of crossover between him and Dale, but he'll
Speaker 2: probably write his own biography and it'll be brilliant, and
Speaker 2: the same with someone like yarn event So what I
Speaker 2: to get the balance right, What I tended to do
Speaker 2: was I interviewed a lot of producers of the era,
Speaker 2: people cameraman from the era, or you know, all people
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. And then in addition to that I
Speaker 2: interviewed I did interview some quite really well known news readers,
Speaker 2: but actually the ones that I settled on were more
Speaker 2: from the nineties and a little bit afterwards, just to
Speaker 2: avoid the sense that I was taking anyone's life story.
Speaker 2: So and everyone that I interviewed, some of which are
Speaker 2: still on the air and very famous today, I promised
Speaker 2: them anonymity so that they could and then they might.
Speaker 2: I'll be interested to see whether any of them out
Speaker 2: themselves when the show comes out, and I completely understand
Speaker 2: if they don't, you know, and I don't know how
Speaker 2: they'll respond. M It was great, actually, because as soon
Speaker 2: as I promised them this is just for my own research, purposes,
Speaker 2: no one will ever know. They really opened up and
Speaker 2: the stories were amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, Amm Rossiano is a good friend of Hells and
Speaker 1: was reported to have been the inspiration for Cat Stewart's
Speaker 1: character in Offspring. So yeah, you know, I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you who inspirations for Simon and Helen.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot, There's more than one inspiration, but yeah,
Speaker 2: no question. M. You know, it's really no secret that
Speaker 2: the M has sort of forged a career in the media,
Speaker 2: and she's a big personality and famously has you know,
Speaker 2: has sometimes struggled in those commercial media environments. And I've
Speaker 2: been very close to her for all that time, so
Speaker 2: I've had a front row seat to that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm always it pains to say, of course there's you know,
Speaker 2: Helen and Dahl are in a romantic relationship. I can
Speaker 2: assure you that has not happened with M and I,
Speaker 2: and there's no direct you know, there's no direct moments,
Speaker 2: but definitely that struggle of being you know, an ambitious,
Speaker 2: a focused, a talented and uncompromising woman in that environment.
Speaker 2: I've drawn a lot of inspiration from that, and obviously
Speaker 2: that's been part of M's story as well, and I've
Speaker 2: witnessed it, so yes, it is fair to say that
Speaker 2: she's definitely part of the inspiration. But there were many
Speaker 2: sixty minutes. Are sending female reporters.
Speaker 3: To wars anywhere you go is a war zone, Helen,
Speaker 3: You're a war zone on two legs.
Speaker 2: So yeah, try your luck there, see if they'll take you.
Speaker 2: Oh well, what are we tell you something? Though?
Speaker 3: Sweeter are the networks they hear about the shit we
Speaker 3: have to put up with from you.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot budge bar.
Speaker 2: I have to back you up.
Speaker 3: Every day. People come in here and they say, Helen Marble,
Speaker 3: she's a nightmare.
Speaker 2: She's got a face like a slap dart.
Speaker 1: Well, I just remember watching the show and then doing
Speaker 1: the research, knowing that I was going to be speaking
Speaker 1: to you, and thinking I was like, it's em Rosiano here,
Speaker 1: because she had this ability to be really sort of
Speaker 1: ambitious and talented but also emotional, and then also being
Speaker 1: told you're not allowed to have those things all put
Speaker 1: together is just so interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a pretty you know. I would say
Speaker 2: that in terms of that you we were speaking about
Speaker 2: the progress with in terms of homosexuality. I would say
Speaker 2: in some ways the gender progress is still maybe not
Speaker 2: a swift and I still feel like there are different
Speaker 2: standards and our tolerance for men who are decisive and
Speaker 2: who are ambitious and everything like that is is I
Speaker 2: still I reckon a lot greater than women. And it
Speaker 2: is like in the in the show, audience members ring
Speaker 2: the switchboard and say all this sort of stuff about
Speaker 2: Helen saying, you know, she's she's put on weight. I
Speaker 2: didn't like that. I make up all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: You know that obviously we don't ring the switchboard, but
Speaker 2: tell you what. They go on Twitter and you only
Speaker 2: need to like every time Lee sales is on seven
Speaker 2: point thirty. I mean, just look at people tweeting her. Like,
Speaker 2: the pressures on women in the media, both from the
Speaker 2: audience and from the structure around them, is still pretty intense.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: You know, how do you think that the flavor of
Speaker 1: Australian journalism differs to say, the way in which they
Speaker 1: report on the news in England and America?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting. Actually, the first thing I have to
Speaker 2: say is one of the surprising things is how much
Speaker 2: the presentation, how the way that a newsreader composes of themselves.
Speaker 2: There are actually a lot of similarities. And one of
Speaker 2: the things that was surprizing to me is how much
Speaker 2: the look of an eighties news reader seemed to be
Speaker 2: consistent in all the different territories. Actually, I would say
Speaker 2: that the British ones were a bit more tweed and spectacles,
Speaker 2: a little bit more in the American ones were more
Speaker 2: that sort of tough hair spray. And I suppose the
Speaker 2: American news even in the eighties had tripped a little
Speaker 2: bit more into slightly more sensational territory even back then.
Speaker 2: And the big difference, actually one of the biggest differences
Speaker 2: with in America is they in the eighties already had
Speaker 2: twenty four hour news. They already had CNN, and we
Speaker 2: didn't have that here, so we still had the legacy
Speaker 2: of the news bulletin. And another thing that you really
Speaker 2: felt with the Australian ones is that in the eighties,
Speaker 2: at least a lot of particularly the men that were
Speaker 2: still there, they had been there since the birth of
Speaker 2: television and they had begun in radio. And when you
Speaker 2: look at some of the eighties footage from Australia, they
Speaker 2: really speak in that old timey Australian voice, which is
Speaker 2: really feels really dated now.
Speaker 3: The main event of our visa Tennery World Expo eighty eight.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess that's the primary difference. America was
Speaker 2: speeding into sensationalism in twenty four hour news and we
Speaker 2: still had that legacy of you are now on the
Speaker 2: six pm bulletin that was still here in Australia.
Speaker 1: You know, women on TV was sort of refined to
Speaker 1: the barrel girl roles. At best, they might get the
Speaker 1: second lead story. Are you surprised with how long it's
Speaker 1: sort of taken us to see more equality on television?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a strong I mean, it is remarkable
Speaker 2: how long it took for just women to be newsreaders
Speaker 2: in general. I mean it was really just starting to
Speaker 2: come in the late seventies and then a little bit
Speaker 2: more in the eighties, but typically in the eighties they
Speaker 2: just had to be pared with a man. That's pretty
Speaker 2: wild to me, and I think even today, I mean
Speaker 2: you look at commercial radio, there are very few commercial
Speaker 2: radio teams that are two women. In fact, are there any?
Speaker 2: And isn't there still? Isn't there still with radio this
Speaker 2: sort of vague sense of audiences won't like two female voices.
Speaker 2: They need to be you know of that, or they
Speaker 2: just sound shrill. I mean that is something that could
Speaker 2: you could imagine still get said in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean a lot of these, you know,
Speaker 2: the misogyny frankly is it's really it's stark and it's
Speaker 2: still present today. But then there were really, I mean,
Speaker 2: there's always fascinating exceptions, and Yanna Vent was a really
Speaker 2: fascinating exception to the rule because she was she was
Speaker 2: very serious and authoritative and really beloved, like she was
Speaker 2: the most popular person on Australian television. You know, there
Speaker 2: was nothing barrel girl about Yana. She was a very intelligent, sophisticated,
Speaker 2: serious presence on Australian news and so on one level
Speaker 2: she's like the highest paid person on television. But then
Speaker 2: in other cases there's you know, all sorts of sexism
Speaker 2: and misogyny. So there are contradictions, but by and large, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's I think still today, women, particularly teams of women
Speaker 2: in those headline positions are still unfortunately pretty rare, and
Speaker 2: you look at us talk shows, I mean Samantha be
Speaker 2: but beyond her again, there's this weird thing of we
Speaker 2: just want to be put to bed by the men.
Speaker 1: Well, do you think that it was sort of protected
Speaker 1: over the years by straight white males that you know,
Speaker 1: all straight white male presenters who couldn't bear to think
Speaker 1: that women might be more interesting than them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it becomes a self fulfilling thing, I think, in
Speaker 2: the sense that you know, if people have added a
Speaker 2: female host to something and it hasn't rated, then people
Speaker 2: will be quoting that for the next twenty years, like
Speaker 2: the same way that when I started, you know, and
Speaker 2: I put a gay kiss in a script and was
Speaker 2: told this is going to drop twenty percent. They were
Speaker 2: citing examples from two thousand. Maybe that was true in
Speaker 2: two thousand, but it's hard to break the cycles when
Speaker 2: people when the executives have been there for forty years
Speaker 2: and they just are pretty you know, fixated on what
Speaker 2: was happening ten to fifteen years ago. And I do
Speaker 2: think that that's part of the trickiness. I would say
Speaker 2: in Australia there is a little bit of a culture
Speaker 2: of the executives in Australia tend to be their long
Speaker 2: term and I have noticed that with an American companies,
Speaker 2: often there's a lot of turnover, Like you go into
Speaker 2: those American streams that Netflix is really famous for, pretty
Speaker 2: high staff turnover. In Australia, a lot of our decision makers,
Speaker 2: a lot of them, you know, have been around since
Speaker 2: the eighties and the nineties and they're still the decision
Speaker 2: makers in Australia.
Speaker 1: Well, there's nothing defametry about this, but in the early
Speaker 1: nineties Denise Dreisdale hosted an episode of Hey, Hey, It's
Speaker 1: Saturday while Darryl Summers was away and the show didn't
Speaker 1: rate any differently, and you know, you think about those
Speaker 1: telltale signs that the audience didn't care, but we just
Speaker 1: ignored it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I do think often there are times where just give
Speaker 2: the audience a bit of credit. They might you might
Speaker 2: be surprised.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I think we're trying. I think we're
Speaker 1: still trying in lots of ways. And I get really
Speaker 1: funny about people feeling you know a quote of these
Speaker 1: days when people say, oh, we need a queer person
Speaker 1: or we need to person in a person of color.
Speaker 1: You know, I do want to see more equality on screen,
Speaker 1: of course, but you know, where is the where is
Speaker 1: the meritocracy?
Speaker 2: It is always tricky with quotas. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: you know, on the other hand, sometimes I think it's
Speaker 2: just a practical way of forcing change and when changes
Speaker 2: is resistant, then they can be really, really effective. And it
Speaker 2: surprises me when I think back. Now, even at the
Speaker 2: start of my career, it was really common for me
Speaker 2: to be in writers' rooms and it was all white,
Speaker 2: middle class writers. And now that wouldn't happen. And it's
Speaker 2: not necessarily because of quotas, but there's much more of
Speaker 2: a sense. And also once you, i mean you suddenly
Speaker 2: realize it, the room is so much better that when
Speaker 2: there's like different perspectives and you know, on Five Bedrooms,
Speaker 2: I mean, we have a very diverse room on that show.
Speaker 2: But early on we were working with Mattila Gupta, who
Speaker 2: and her input into the show is just absolutely made
Speaker 2: the show. The shows aren't imaginable without everything that she
Speaker 2: has brought to it.
Speaker 1: I think you also had Benjamin Law helping you with sisters,
Speaker 1: you know, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, yes, yes, that again was a great Yeah,
Speaker 2: we had a great room. There was a great room
Speaker 2: for that. Rosie Woodland was in that room as well.
Speaker 1: You know, with digital content being made independently now you know,
Speaker 1: you've got people popping up and making their own shows
Speaker 1: from home pretty much me right now. But do you
Speaker 1: think that will change the way in which the news
Speaker 1: is reported? Because I think people thought the press was
Speaker 1: controlled by these billionaires, you know that owned those publishing companies,
Speaker 1: which sort of meant that we're being educated and informed
Speaker 1: with a particular skew. Do you think that now could
Speaker 1: change the way in which we're told the news?
Speaker 2: You can look it already has in lots of ways.
Speaker 2: I mean, I did spend some time in the ABC
Speaker 2: newsroom for research for this, but of course that was
Speaker 2: only of limited help because the whole way news is
Speaker 2: put together has changed. And in the eighties they went
Speaker 2: out like the reporters would go out with not just
Speaker 2: a camera person but a soundo as well, and now
Speaker 2: oftentimes they're just going out with their own digital equipment.
Speaker 2: They're a one man band, and oftentimes they're directly asking
Speaker 2: the public to send in footage, which everyone everyone can
Speaker 2: do now. So it's kind of revolutionized the way that
Speaker 2: news is put together, and it meant that my spending
Speaker 2: time in the newsroom in twenty twenty was not that
Speaker 2: helpful in terms of trying to figure out nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 2: But yeah, absolutely, and it comes with I mean, there's
Speaker 2: great assets to it, but there's also dangers. There's the
Speaker 2: dangers in it as well. And obviously trust in news
Speaker 2: is low at the moment, and part of that is
Speaker 2: because there are so many different news sources and it
Speaker 2: really we've got to develop our sort of literacy in
Speaker 2: knowing which news sources to, you know, to gravitate towards
Speaker 2: and to trust. And I said, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: I hate to bring up a trumpet slogan, but you know,
Speaker 2: the belief in fake news and then also inaccuracies in
Speaker 2: news and is a really big problem that is not
Speaker 2: helped in some ways by the fragmentation of you know,
Speaker 2: all of the news bodies. I heard a podcast the
Speaker 2: other day which I thought was really interesting because they
Speaker 2: got to the end of the podcast and they let
Speaker 2: this guest talk at will, and then at the end
Speaker 2: of the podcast, the host came on and re clarified
Speaker 2: some of the mistakes that were made. I'm so interesting
Speaker 2: and it made me just this podcast more that you
Speaker 2: can have a guest come on and speak their truth,
Speaker 2: but then at the end of them just clarify Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like what we needed.
Speaker 1: With Donald Trump was down the bottom. Tweet away my friend,
Speaker 1: you nutjob. But you know, let's have down the bottom.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's one of the Yeah, the lessons
Speaker 2: of that era is that you have to call out
Speaker 2: lives and accuracies at the time, because if you don't,
Speaker 2: you're just creating, you know, a pathway to all kinds
Speaker 2: of wreckage. But yeah, it's a really interesting time for
Speaker 2: news at the moment. The Internet has revolutionized things and
Speaker 2: the fact that all of us can be newsgatherers with
Speaker 2: our phones in our pocket is Yeah, it's amazing in
Speaker 2: some ways and problematic in others.
Speaker 1: You know, if you had to list one or two
Speaker 1: shows that were your favorite Australian programs growing up that
Speaker 1: sort of inspired you to come into this industry, what
Speaker 1: would they be.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm going to start with Frontline for pretty
Speaker 2: obvious reasons. You can see there's some connections with the
Speaker 2: news and I would say in general working dog as
Speaker 2: a production company. I mean, I was in high school
Speaker 2: when the Late Show was on and I was obsessed
Speaker 2: with it, and then to sort of follow that group
Speaker 2: and become a huge fan of Frontline and still today.
Speaker 2: Those episodes really hold up there. You can see them
Speaker 2: on stan God they're good, They're completely relevant. And I
Speaker 2: spent the entire development of Newsreader absolutely panicked that they
Speaker 2: were going to announce they were doing another season of Frontline,
Speaker 2: because if they did, I'm not sure we would have
Speaker 2: got commissioned. Yeah, so Frontline absolutely really looms large in
Speaker 2: my mind. And I mean I have to say Secret
Speaker 2: Life of Us as well, because which again is having
Speaker 2: a real moment on Netflix, but our Secret Life of Us.
Speaker 2: I was just a little bit younger than those characters
Speaker 2: on screen. I was in a sharehouse and I loved it.
Speaker 2: It just felt like we had turned a new page
Speaker 2: on Australian TV. Those actors were so charismatic, the writing
Speaker 2: was so good, and even watching it now, I think
Speaker 2: the writing still feels really pretty fresh. And it's InCred
Speaker 2: to me that they made twenty two EPs a year
Speaker 2: and kept the standard that high. Simon, do you have
Speaker 2: a girlfriend? Yeah? Kind of what snay? Robert? Robert isn't
Speaker 2: short for ROBERTA is it? Have you ever done it
Speaker 2: with a girl?
Speaker 3: Was it nice?
Speaker 2: Very nice?
Speaker 3: But you'd rather do it with boys?
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you rather do it? With boys.
Speaker 1: It's not rather, it's just that I don't know just
Speaker 1: like boys, I suppose say there was something to think about.
Speaker 1: But if boys like boys and girls like boys, who
Speaker 1: likes the girls?
Speaker 2: Particularly Secret Life of Us. I went to one of
Speaker 2: those sort of writers' festivals and I was studying screenwriting
Speaker 2: at the time, and I saw Judy mccrosson, who was
Speaker 2: one of the head writers on that, and the producer
Speaker 2: Amanda Higgs, and they talked about the process of making
Speaker 2: that show and how they would tell stories about their
Speaker 2: love lives and their housemates and how that would become
Speaker 2: the narrative of the show. And I remember sitting there going,
Speaker 2: that's what I want to do. That's more than anything.
Speaker 2: I was sort of at a time in my life
Speaker 2: where I wasn't quite sure do I want to write
Speaker 2: movies or do I want to be a director? Maybe
Speaker 2: what I want to do, But when I heard the
Speaker 2: two of them speak, I thought, I want to work
Speaker 2: on a returning TV show and a relationship drama and
Speaker 2: I just want to be in a room with great,
Speaker 2: interesting writers and pour our life stories onto the screen.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, those two Secret Life of arts in
Speaker 2: Frontline are going to be my two picks.
Speaker 1: Are you surprised we don't see more Australian drama on
Speaker 1: film that is sort of less grim and more colloquial,
Speaker 1: because like, the thing I really liked about your film
Speaker 1: was how much it didn't have to be said in Australia.
Speaker 1: It was still very Australian, but the subject matter meant
Speaker 1: that it could be more colloquial without it being about
Speaker 1: drugs or gangsters.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean it's tricky with Australian films because
Speaker 2: often you know, with films, it's true now of television,
Speaker 2: but with films, to put the financing together, you've got
Speaker 2: to get a lot of international money, and in terms
Speaker 2: of an international financi you're putting in money to Australian
Speaker 2: films and then often they'll want a classic Australian vistas
Speaker 2: and the Outback and you know, something really uniquely Australian.
Speaker 2: So that same quality that you mentioned that you liked,
Speaker 2: that I like too, and that works on television in
Speaker 2: things like Secret Life of Us is a little bit
Speaker 2: trickier in film, Like for a film like not Suitable
Speaker 2: for children, Well, why would American money go into that
Speaker 2: when they could do you know, they could do an
Speaker 2: American a Judd Apatow version of that. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I must admit I'm pretty in love with television now
Speaker 2: even and I'd be surprised, actually if I went back
Speaker 2: in time and spoke to myself how much I was
Speaker 2: sort of going to be so content to completely move
Speaker 2: away from feature films. But there's something about long, ongoing
Speaker 2: plot arcs that I really love, and also for me
Speaker 2: at least, something about having an ensemble of great actors
Speaker 2: and you know, working with them over a period of
Speaker 2: years and developing that relationship with them where you give
Speaker 2: them particular material. I love that, And of course with film,
Speaker 2: I mean I love doing not suitable for children, and
Speaker 2: I'm just still to this day adore Ryan Quanton and
Speaker 2: Sarah Snook and Ryan Core. But it was, you know,
Speaker 2: it was seven weeks and we were done, and the
Speaker 2: script was finished before they began. I mean, in some
Speaker 2: ways I almost wish that that show was a series,
Speaker 2: because it would have been great to keep returning to
Speaker 2: them and to develop that same relationship with those actors.
Speaker 1: A good question to ask is where do you see
Speaker 1: the Australian film and television industry in ten years from now,
Speaker 1: do you think that streaming services might be the chance
Speaker 1: to make more bold choices in storytelling?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, I mean everything's migrating, dramas migrating to streaming now.
Speaker 2: I mean I've been on the front line of it
Speaker 2: because The Five Bedrooms began as a network show and
Speaker 2: now it's on Paramount Plus and in most territories in
Speaker 2: the world it's on streaming. I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 2: I mean we're obviously at a peak time at the moment.
Speaker 2: There are so many hours of drama being made, so
Speaker 2: many I mean just unprecedented six hundred shows a year
Speaker 2: or something get made. I mean it's really exciting for us.
Speaker 2: Like our newsreader is funded in a large part out
Speaker 2: of the UK, and Five Bedrooms as well, and so
Speaker 2: it does give it can give Australian work access to
Speaker 2: bigger budgets. And of course, when when you're accessing the
Speaker 2: money of those international streamers, they want bold, noisy concepts,
Speaker 2: they want something really distinctive. There is a certain great
Speaker 2: thing about you know, those classic Australian dramas that were
Speaker 2: broad put the whole family around. Definitely, streaming mostly demands
Speaker 2: more more specific niches in terms of streaming. It's better
Speaker 2: to hit a niche audience and get a niche a
Speaker 2: smaller group of people obsessed with it. That's better than
Speaker 2: to have a broad group of people quite like it.
Speaker 2: But for me, it's exciting and I feel like it'll
Speaker 2: be great for the industry, particularly if we can get
Speaker 2: quotas put on the streamers. That if we can get
Speaker 2: quotas put on Netflix and all of those international streamers,
Speaker 2: then there will be an amazing renaissance. I mean there
Speaker 2: already is an amazing amount of Australian shows being made
Speaker 2: for the streamers, but that would kick it to the
Speaker 2: next level.
Speaker 1: I think, well, you know, it's interesting, you know, with
Speaker 1: Kiben making Nine Perfect Strangers here in Australia at the moment,
Speaker 1: do you think that that will give actresses like you know,
Speaker 1: Asha Ketty more of a global platform because some of
Speaker 1: our television actors are some of the best television actors
Speaker 1: in the world. When you're looking at these streaming services
Speaker 1: internationally and you can see some of these shows like
Speaker 1: Offspring next to an American show or UK show, people
Speaker 1: just come across. You know, surely we're going to have
Speaker 1: people because I mean, Laudia carbon Asha Ketty. There's so
Speaker 1: many of kat Stewart's, so many of the best television
Speaker 1: actors in the world, and we're lucky to still have
Speaker 1: them in Australia. Do you reckon people are going to
Speaker 1: try and snap them up and take them elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, I even think of the Danish Showborgan,
Speaker 2: that the brilliant actress that plays the prime minister in
Speaker 2: that show. You know, she popped up in all these
Speaker 2: you know, she was in Westworld, and you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: I know very well that Asher is this incredible actress.
Speaker 2: And Offspring has really got traction on Netflix, like it's
Speaker 2: still to this day. I'm amazed at how many people.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just one of the writers on it,
Speaker 2: and the amount of social media traffic I get that
Speaker 2: people still, you know, blowing up over the bit where
Speaker 2: Patrick dies is incredible. I can't let you go. It's
Speaker 2: not what you're doing, but I have to keep leaving somehow.
Speaker 2: For me, it's a really exciting era because even when
Speaker 2: we began, when I began, you know, Offspring was just
Speaker 2: a domestic show. It was hugely successful in Australia, but
Speaker 2: it didn't really travel. Now it's got this whole life
Speaker 2: overseas and certainly for something like five Bedrooms Now Australia
Speaker 2: is just one part of our rollout, like where we
Speaker 2: start in the US in a week and we're on Peacock,
Speaker 2: you know, which has shows like Girls five ever and
Speaker 2: it sits really well on that platform. So I yeah,
Speaker 2: it really will change the way people approach their careers.
Speaker 2: And I do think for people like Asha and Claudia
Speaker 2: and everyone that old thing of where you've just got
Speaker 2: to go over to LA and do the best you
Speaker 2: can for as long as it takes or whatever, that
Speaker 2: I think will change. I think if work here travels,
Speaker 2: then they'll be noticed because they're brilliant. Just to go
Speaker 2: back just a second, though, you didn't kill Patrick on Offspring.
Speaker 2: You're not responsible for that. I I'm definitely one of
Speaker 2: the murderers. Yeah, I hate to say it, but no,
Speaker 2: I mean Deborah Oswald is the creator of Offspring and
Speaker 2: she was the head writer, so maybe it can more
Speaker 2: hang on her than me. But no, it was primarily
Speaker 2: plotted by myself and Jonathan Gavin and with deb in charge.
Speaker 2: But no, I was there. I was there, we yep,
Speaker 2: and I was on board with it. I was on
Speaker 2: board with it. I felt like it was the right choice.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many women in Australia or the
Speaker 1: world that was sitting there with a shaton Eh glass
Speaker 1: of white wine bawling their eyes out and plotting your
Speaker 1: death if they know it?
Speaker 2: Well? I know because I at the time, I was
Speaker 2: actually the only one of the writers that was on
Speaker 2: social media on Twitter, and believe me, I heard about
Speaker 2: it and still to this day, like it's one of
Speaker 2: those things that you know, I'll go to a wedding
Speaker 2: and people will say, yeah, well he worked on Offspring
Speaker 2: and then someone will go, oh my god, when Pat
Speaker 2: It's just one of those things.
Speaker 1: But I reckon there would be some satisfaction in knowing
Speaker 1: that a piece of your writing has connected like that.
Speaker 1: To imagine that your writing has compelled an audience.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's what I mean. The biggest thing that
Speaker 2: you hope for when you write anything, it's just that
Speaker 2: an audience will care. They'll care about the characters, and
Speaker 2: obviously with Offspring, they just especially by season four, they
Speaker 2: cared so much about Nina and Patrick that they were
Speaker 2: legitimately grief stricken, and even though it was a little
Speaker 2: bit full on and especially considering that I was new
Speaker 2: to Twitter at the time, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: so Twitter in general was pretty new at the time,
Speaker 2: so it was a pretty startling thing to go through.
Speaker 2: But you know, I only ever saw it as a
Speaker 2: positive because I felt like, well, you know, it worked
Speaker 2: what we were creating with the cast and with the
Speaker 2: directors and everything like that. People were invested. And sure
Speaker 2: they might be really furious at me and sending me
Speaker 2: weird little wanted posters with my face cut and paste
Speaker 2: on it, but it just shows they cared.
Speaker 1: I'm actually fascinated with the fact that you've got so
Speaker 1: many shows on television, you know, coming up, and you've
Speaker 1: got you know, Five Bedrooms, which is just launched on
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus watch series. Why not watching series two? Was
Speaker 1: there a second season soft reboot to Five Bedrooms as
Speaker 1: it started? Because I felt like the second series allowed
Speaker 1: audience to just pick it up without even needing the
Speaker 1: first to watch the series.
Speaker 2: We were certainly very conscious of the fact that when
Speaker 2: we came into series two we did sort of like
Speaker 2: encapsulate the premise. Again, a lot of this was a
Speaker 2: lot of our hand was forced in a way because
Speaker 2: we lost the house we shot in first season, We've
Speaker 2: got a great house. We've got great houses for all
Speaker 2: the seasons, but first season we're in this great house,
Speaker 2: and then the owner was going to completely renovate it
Speaker 2: so and make it really deluxe, so we couldn't shoot
Speaker 2: there again. We had to find a new house, and
Speaker 2: we did, so it meant that season two began with
Speaker 2: again house purchasing, so in that respect, it felt like
Speaker 2: a bit of a reset. But it's an interesting one
Speaker 2: with five bedrooms because it's obviously, you know, it's a
Speaker 2: serialized story. It's quite different to a lot of things
Speaker 2: that I've written in that each episode goes to one
Speaker 2: of the characters, and hopefully in that episode you get
Speaker 2: It's not a self contained story because all the ongoing
Speaker 2: stories are going on, but you invest in that character
Speaker 2: and you should get you know, with every episode, we
Speaker 2: aspire to give you a really well rounded, little emotional journey.
Speaker 2: So to a certain extent, we hope it is the
Speaker 2: kind of show that you can drop in and hopefully
Speaker 2: in the first few minutes of the show you'll suddenly
Speaker 2: get this is the dilemma in this episode, and you
Speaker 2: will get some sort of emotional resolution to it. In
Speaker 2: the episode. Yeah, so that's probably what you're picking up
Speaker 2: on in watching it, which is quite different to say Offspring,
Speaker 2: which is always Nina. And if you haven't been watching
Speaker 2: the last episode with Nina, then you're going to be
Speaker 2: lost coming into the new one.
Speaker 1: I think it's really clever, but I think it's also
Speaker 1: a testament to who you are as a collaborator, as
Speaker 1: a writer, as a storyteller, as a script producer. I
Speaker 1: think it's the diversity of these two shows, Like how
Speaker 1: amazing is it to have these two shows something on
Speaker 1: the ABC like The news Reader and then have five
Speaker 1: bedrooms on you know, Paramount plus chaneld ten sort of thing,
Speaker 1: like they're just so different but still so amazing. And
Speaker 1: it ties me back to the first thing I said
Speaker 1: to you, which is you know. It's it's the way
Speaker 1: in which you understand the characters. You know, it's the
Speaker 1: way in which you write those characters. There's something that's
Speaker 1: similar in all of your work which I can see,
Speaker 1: and it's your ability to believe these characters. It's the
Speaker 1: nuances that you see.
Speaker 2: Likely.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm always in your audience, but my last question
Speaker 1: before you go is something that I ask all my
Speaker 1: guests and that is what is an amazing story from
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of the news reader that we as
Speaker 1: an audience would appreciate.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I feels like there's a lot to talk
Speaker 2: about there. Look, it's hard for me with the newsreader
Speaker 2: to go past just some of the stuff with COVID
Speaker 2: because we were in the surreal thing of you know,
Speaker 2: we're crafting nineteen eighty six, but in twenty twenty and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and there are a couple of real
Speaker 2: COVID we always we started to refer to them as
Speaker 2: COVID curveballs. But I would say that probably the biggest
Speaker 2: one was we have an episode that is set in
Speaker 2: Darwin for the Lindy Chamberlain's trial, and we were going
Speaker 2: to shoot that at the real jail where she was imprisoned,
Speaker 2: and we'd location scouted and then everything was ready, and
Speaker 2: then we had an outbreak in Melbourne and they shut
Speaker 2: the borders and we couldn't get there, and it was
Speaker 2: an absolute disaster, and all our flights were booked, all
Speaker 2: our accommodation was booked, and a torf was already looking
Speaker 2: into we were going to go see the jumping crocodiles
Speaker 2: like it was I had contacted friends in Darwin. We
Speaker 2: were so on the brink of it, and so then
Speaker 2: we scrambled and we thought, okay, okay, okay. Let's Emma
Speaker 2: Freeman had shot Stateless in Port Augusta, so we thought
Speaker 2: we'll move that. We got a location scout out there,
Speaker 2: and we desperately like tried to like get the production
Speaker 2: ready to go to Port Augusta, and then right on
Speaker 2: the brink of that, then South Australia shut there Port
Speaker 2: it too, and so we lost what did your film? It?
Speaker 2: Then Midura because we finally accepted that it's just got
Speaker 2: to be Victoria. We can't leave Victoria, but where? And
Speaker 2: I have to say that in the end, Mildura was
Speaker 2: amazing and the locals really got behind it, and I
Speaker 2: think I had underrested. I mean, Mildura is you know
Speaker 2: not It's closer to kind of Broken Hill than it
Speaker 2: is to Melbourne, and it had the red dirt. It's
Speaker 2: not tropical, it's much more desert. But yeah, so we
Speaker 2: ended up going to Mildura and then any We were
Speaker 2: basically looking for any fragment of Mildura that had palm trees.
Speaker 2: If there was a palm tree in Mildura. I can
Speaker 2: tell you we filmed it and everything so carefully, carefully
Speaker 2: framed so that it looks like Darwin. But I mean,
Speaker 2: that was the most ridiculous thing that happened, just I mean,
Speaker 2: I could understand one border closing, but to have one
Speaker 2: and then another was just kind of unbelievable. But we
Speaker 2: still got it made.
Speaker 1: I read someone yesterday online said I can't wait for
Speaker 1: this TV but if there's no smoking in the newsroom,
Speaker 1: then it's not real. And then I thought to myself, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know whether or not when you were making
Speaker 1: this show, whether or not you'd be allowed to even have,
Speaker 1: you know, pretend smoke that they do in TV and
Speaker 1: film because of COVID, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: we're so parent.
Speaker 2: It was a real question. That was a real question,
Speaker 2: and there were different classifications for different smoke machines, but
Speaker 2: the one that we had was approved to create the
Speaker 2: myst I have to say, it smelt disgusting and I
Speaker 2: thought it was giving me headaches. I kept on I
Speaker 2: felt really sorry for the cast, and I kept racing
Speaker 2: outside and sort of heaving in the air. But apparently
Speaker 2: it was COVID safe and it looked great on screen.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just got that misty look that is
Speaker 2: perfect for that smoking newsroom. But god, it was, it was.
Speaker 2: It was awful. It was awful. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I just want to say you are a fantastic collaborator.
Speaker 1: You are an amazing storyteller. We're so lucky to have
Speaker 1: you telling stories here in Australia. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: still be in your audience.
Speaker 2: For people, the cheers.
Speaker 1: That that don't watch the ABC because they're idiots, you know,
Speaker 1: go and watch the ABC, you know, on Sunday night,
Speaker 1: because this show is just brilliant. I think there's something.
Speaker 2: In fro into iView anytime you want. It's free. One
Speaker 2: of these people complaining to me about paramount plus I
Speaker 2: have to pay for five bedrooms now, and so I
Speaker 2: just want to say to everyone that newsreader will be one,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent free. You've paid for it as an
Speaker 2: Australian taxpayer. Click on go for gold.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for being able to It
Speaker 1: was fun, we went for we went on a few tangents.
Speaker 2: We did enjoy and that the wine was wonderful and
Speaker 2: so was the company. So thank you.