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Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily This is the daily

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Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the second of July.

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Harry. Last week, millions of people in

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Speaker 1: the US and around the world tuned into the first

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Speaker 1: presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: Now please welcome the forty sixth President of the United States,

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: Biden's performance unleashed a wave of panic among Democrats' strategists,

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Speaker 1: as senior officials and donors started calling for him to

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Speaker 1: step down ahead of the November election. In today's deep dive,

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Speaker 1: we'll look at the first debate and why there are

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Speaker 1: calls for Joe Biden to step aside. But for Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what's making headlines.

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Speaker 2: The federal government has appointed the first Illicit Tobacco and

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Speaker 2: e Cigarette Commissioner. Current Assistant Commissioner of the Austra Borderforce,

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Speaker 2: Aarin Dale, has been temporarily appointed until a formal appointment

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Speaker 2: is made. The commissioner will be focused on controlling the

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Speaker 2: importation and sale of illicit tobacco and e cigarettes. Health

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Speaker 2: Minister Mark Butler said that coordinated efforts are working to

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Speaker 2: control these products which are hooking Australians on nicotine.

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Speaker 1: Starting this month, the visa fee for international students coming

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Speaker 1: to Australia has more than doubled from seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten to one thousand, six hundred dollars. It's part of

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Speaker 1: the Federal government's migration strategy, which is targeting so called

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Speaker 1: visa hopping, which refers to overseas students and other temporary

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Speaker 1: visitors changing their visas to extend their stay in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Staff from Melbourne Airport have allegedly been involved in smuggling

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Speaker 2: illicit substances between Victoria and Tasmania. The Australian Border Force

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Speaker 2: worked with air Border Security at Melbourne International Airport in

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Speaker 2: a one year operation which was aimed at unc covering

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Speaker 2: criminal activity in the Victoria and Tasmania supply chain. An

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Speaker 2: investigation found a number of airline crew members were involved

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Speaker 2: in the domestic distribution of illicit substances.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, Simone Biles has made it to

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Speaker 1: her third Olympics after flying through the US Olympic Gymnastics trials.

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Speaker 1: The gymnast holds seven Olympic medals from the twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: Games in Rio di Genio and the twenty twenty Tokyo Games.

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Speaker 1: Biles scored one hundred and seventeen point two to two five,

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Speaker 1: earning her the top spot at the US Trials, followed

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Speaker 1: by Sunny Lee, who scored one hundred and eleven point

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Speaker 1: six seven five. The twenty seven year old athletes said quote,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we have a lot of weight on

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Speaker 1: our shoulders to go out there and prove that we're

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Speaker 1: better athletes. We're more mature, we're smarter, and we're more consistent.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like more sports news, subscribe to our sport newsletter.

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Speaker 1: The link will be in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so, Harry, the election in the US is very

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Speaker 2: much nearing and feels like it's all anyone is talking

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Speaker 2: about at the moment. I was on holidays and everywhere

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Speaker 2: I went, you absolutely cannot escape it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I had to tell my partner to turn down the

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Speaker 2: volume while he was listening to the debate, because there's

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Speaker 2: nothing that rips you out of your holiday mood more

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Speaker 2: than a presidential debate.

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Speaker 1: Mean, while every newsroom around the country and probably around

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Speaker 1: the world was turning at the blue heads were turned.

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Speaker 2: That there was so I want to talk about the debate,

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Speaker 2: but before we get there, can you just give us

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Speaker 2: a bit of a lay of the land. Where are

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Speaker 2: we up to in the presidential kind of nomination process,

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Speaker 2: because it is a process.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So where are we at so far? So I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to say that we did see a

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Speaker 1: debate play out between Trump and Biden. But it's actually

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Speaker 1: interesting to note that neither of them have been selected

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Speaker 1: formally by their parties just yet, so they need to

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Speaker 1: go through what's called a Democratic or Republican convention, so

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Speaker 1: that's host by their parties, where they are officially confirmed

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Speaker 1: as the party's nominee. The Democrats will be hosting theirs

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Speaker 1: in August, the Republicans in July. Before that happens, they

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Speaker 1: are what's called the presumptive nominees because they've already won

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Speaker 1: all the primary races that they need to and so it's,

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Speaker 1: as the title suggests, presumed that they will be running

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Speaker 1: for their parties come the November election. So we know

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Speaker 1: that Joe Biden will be running for the Democrats as

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Speaker 1: things stand, as with Donald Trump will be running for

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party, and he's trying to get back into

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Speaker 1: the White House. And so the campaign's heating up. Both

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Speaker 1: candidates are speaking at more and more rallies, and there

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Speaker 1: are many blue and red posters around the US, and

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Speaker 1: the mood was really building, especially in the media when

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Speaker 1: it came to this first presidential debate that we saw

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Speaker 1: late last week.

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Speaker 2: Talking about the debate, much has been said about it.

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Speaker 2: I want to just get in to quickly the particularities

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Speaker 2: of the debate itself, because it was quite unique, wasn't it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it was really unusual for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, there was no audience. It was

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Speaker 1: just the two CNN moderators and Trump and Biden. That's

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Speaker 1: the only people we heard from. And so there was

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Speaker 1: no doing, There was no hissing, there was no clapping

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Speaker 1: or applause. So you know, when either candidate went to

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Speaker 1: make their maybe mic drop moment, it was kind of unusual, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we know couldn't really gauge reaction. The second thing

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Speaker 1: that made it a little bit unique was the sense

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Speaker 1: that this was deja vu for so many people. We

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Speaker 1: have seen Trump and Biden debate before, so this was

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Speaker 1: the first time that a former president and a sitting

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Speaker 1: president went head to head in a presidential debate.

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Speaker 4: How interesting.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so what exactly did they talk about? Because I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of the kind of post mortem has

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Speaker 2: been about performance, not necessarily about policy. So what specifically

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Speaker 2: were the two presumptive nominees talking about.

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Speaker 1: I think there were four main areas of policy that

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Speaker 1: were debated. So the first was on immigration, so both

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Speaker 1: men talked about the need to be tough on borders,

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Speaker 1: to crack down on what they say is illegal migrants

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Speaker 1: arriving in the United States. The second thing was the economy.

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Speaker 1: Those were the opening questions about high inflation, about cost

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Speaker 1: of living, about how much families are struggling right now.

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Speaker 4: So a familiar topic for our Australian listeners.

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Speaker 1: Very much so. And both Trump and Biden were keen

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Speaker 1: to point at each other's records and say that they

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Speaker 1: were respectively responsible for high inflation and high cost of

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Speaker 1: living for families.

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Speaker 2: And well, that's the really unique thing, right because normally

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Speaker 2: the incumbent has to defend their record, but here both

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Speaker 2: have been in power at different times and can both

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Speaker 2: be held responsible, you know, for the bad things and

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Speaker 2: for the good things.

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Speaker 4: It's a strange environment exactly.

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Speaker 1: So Biden was able to say, you left the economy

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Speaker 1: in a mess, and Trump was out saying the economy

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Speaker 1: is currently a mess. So they were both at pains

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Speaker 1: to emphasize each other's records respectively. The third thing that

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Speaker 1: I think was quite poignant in the debate was the

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Speaker 1: discussion around abortion. And as we know, when abortion gets raised,

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Speaker 1: it can get quite heated quite quickly. It's a very

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Speaker 1: sensitive issue for many people. But Trump in the debate

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Speaker 1: claimed that everyone wanted the states to control their own

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Speaker 1: abortion laws, and by that he's referring to the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. So those are

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Speaker 1: the national protections for abortion access across all of the

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Speaker 1: United States that had been in place since nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 1: He also said Biden wanted to legalize late term abortions,

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Speaker 1: which Biden denied straight away and instead said that when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this medical procedure, that should be between

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Speaker 1: a doctor and a woman and not politicians. And I

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Speaker 1: think the final policy area that was discussed a lot

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Speaker 1: during this debate was democracy more generally, but in particular.

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Speaker 1: Trump was asked whether he would accept the outcome of

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four election. Will you accept the results

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Speaker 1: of the election, regardless of who wins, yes or no.

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Speaker 4: Please if it's a fair and legal and good election.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: At one point, Biden said Trump had quote no sense

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Speaker 1: of American democracy.

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Speaker 2: So obviously very big issues there, abortion, democracy, the economy,

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Speaker 2: a lot of very meaty policy. And yet, as I said,

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Speaker 2: what's being spoken about now isn't actually any of that policy.

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Speaker 2: I've seen barely, if any kind of commentary around the

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Speaker 2: actual substance of the policy. Everything since has been about

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden's performance.

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Speaker 4: Talk me through it. Why is that the case?

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Speaker 1: The conversation turned really quickly into to Joe Biden's performance,

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Speaker 1: and that became the headline. So his voice was noticeably

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Speaker 1: quite hoarse. A campaign source later confirmed that he had

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Speaker 1: a cold. He also stumbled quite a few times. On

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Speaker 1: multiple occasions. He seemed to get lost in what he

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Speaker 1: was saying, sort of go a bit off track, and

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Speaker 1: there was one moment that was picked up and went

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Speaker 1: viral pretty much straight away.

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Speaker 3: Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary

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Speaker 3: person eligible for what I've been able to do with

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Speaker 3: the with the COVID I scud me with dealing with

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Speaker 3: everything we have to do with what if we finally

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Speaker 3: beat Medicare.

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Speaker 1: And after one of Biden's answers, Trump said this, I

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Speaker 1: really don't know.

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Speaker 2: What he said at the end of this.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he knows what he said either.

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Speaker 1: It's worth remembering Joe Biden is the oldest president in history.

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Speaker 1: He is eighty one years old, and if he carries

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Speaker 1: through for a full second term as president, he will

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Speaker 1: be eighty six once he's completed that term. So there

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Speaker 1: have been concerns about Joe Biden's age up until the debate.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say that hasn't necessarily been a new

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Speaker 2: trope that's emerged, but it's certainly been amplified post debate.

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Speaker 1: I think that this was the moment that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people said, he is eighty one years old, and

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Speaker 1: it shows I.

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Speaker 2: Think it must be said just before we go on.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump is seventy eight years old at the moment,

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Speaker 2: a young man, not considerably younger, but certainly the difference

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Speaker 2: in age appeared to be quite prominent during that debate.

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Speaker 4: Talk me through the reaction. You said, it was immediate.

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Speaker 1: What were people saying so straight away? CNN, which hosted

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Speaker 1: the debate, had a panel of experts and strategists to

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Speaker 1: dig into some of the issues, but as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the conversation was all about Biden's age. A former Democrat

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Speaker 1: staffer and CNN journalist Van Jones summed up them among

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Speaker 1: some of the Democrats and their supporters.

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Speaker 3: That was painful. I love Joe Biden. I worked for

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: He didn't do well at all. So senior Democrats were

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Speaker 1: going out to defend Joe Biden to say that he

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Speaker 1: had been stronger on policy than Donald Trump. But even

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Speaker 1: his Vice president Kamala Harris, had to admit that Biden

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Speaker 1: had had a quote slow start to the debate, and

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Speaker 1: it quickly emerged that there was some serious panic going

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Speaker 1: on among the Democrats. Some donors to the parties suggested

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Speaker 1: there was an urgent need for Biden to step aside.

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Speaker 1: The New York Times editorial board also published an opinion

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Speaker 1: piece calling on the president to make way for another candidate, saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden was not the man he was four years

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Speaker 1: ago when he beat Trump.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that the power of a New York

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Speaker 2: Times editorial can be underestimated like that. He is so

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Speaker 2: key in so many states to you know, the perception

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Speaker 2: of how the Democrats positioned and how they're thought about.

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Speaker 2: For The New York Times to come out with that

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Speaker 2: was fairly strong.

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Speaker 1: There would have been a lot of thought going into

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Speaker 1: that article before it was published. It definitely wasn't an

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Speaker 1: off the cuff piece of commentary. It's an entire editorial

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Speaker 1: board at one of the most respected newspapers in the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then when straight after the debate, when you

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Speaker 2: refreshed the New York Times website, it was just like

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Speaker 2: op ed after op ed after op ed, and they

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Speaker 2: were all saying the same thing.

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Speaker 4: It's quite remarkable.

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Speaker 2: But even if they were saying the same thing, even

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Speaker 2: if there were some donors and some fellow Democrats who

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Speaker 2: were worried, like does that mean anything? Are we expecting

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden to actually heed those calls and to step aside.

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Speaker 1: So, just going back to a point that I made

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Speaker 1: a little bit earlier, Donald Trump and Joe Biden have

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Speaker 1: both not yet been confirmed as the candidate's fisher party,

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Speaker 1: not officially, not quite yet. So there are two scenarios

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Speaker 1: that could potentially play out between now and the Democratic Convention,

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Speaker 1: which is between the nineteenth and the twenty second of August,

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Speaker 1: so in about six weeks time. The first one is

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Speaker 1: that Joe Biden could voluntarily step down as the Democrats

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Speaker 1: chosen candidate and give way for someone else. Now who

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Speaker 1: that someone would be is another matter altogether. It's possible

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Speaker 1: it could be Kamala Harris, but her pole ratings have

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Speaker 1: been quite consistently low. But some other names that have

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Speaker 1: been floated around, the California governor Gavin Newsom or the

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Speaker 1: Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. But there's a whole pool of

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Speaker 1: people that they could choose from these high level senior

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Speaker 1: Democrats that could come forward at that point. So it's

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Speaker 1: really not too clear yet.

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Speaker 2: But for that to happen, the key thing that needs

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Speaker 2: to happen is that Joe Biden needs to step.

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Speaker 1: Aside, needs to choose to do it of his own accord.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what's the second scenario?

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Speaker 1: So the second one's a little bit more difficult. Basically,

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Speaker 1: high level Democrats would have to change the rules about

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Speaker 1: how they choose their candidate in time for the convention

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Speaker 1: and then put someone else forward.

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Speaker 4: Sounds complicated.

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Speaker 1: It could take me in entire episode Sarah to explain.

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Speaker 1: But for the sake of time. I think it's just

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Speaker 1: worth noting that most experts are in agreement that that

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Speaker 1: is very unlikely to happen. That the more probable scenario

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Speaker 1: of the two would be that Joe Biden would step

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Speaker 1: down of his own accord, that he would make way

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Speaker 1: for someone else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so a couple of scenarios, one of them being

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Speaker 2: that Joe Biden voluntarily steps down.

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Speaker 4: Is he going to? What does your crystal ball tell you?

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say confidently no, Yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden will step down. He has been pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that he isn't going to at this stage. He spoke

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Speaker 1: at a campaign rally in North Carolina a few hours

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Speaker 1: after the debate where he really dug his heels in

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Speaker 1: and he was going to keep going.

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Speaker 3: I don't walk as easy as I used to, I

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Speaker 3: don't speak as smoothly as I used to. I don't

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Speaker 3: debate as well as I used to. Well, I know

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Speaker 3: what I do know, I know how to tell the truth.

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Speaker 1: He had a lot more energy during this rally.

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Speaker 4: It was quite remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quite a shift. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people did notice that that this was a Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden that had some zeal And some energy to just

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Speaker 1: really keep going, and he looked like he was definitely

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Speaker 1: wanting to take on Trump and that he believed that

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Speaker 1: he could as well. So The New York Times is

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Speaker 1: also reporting that Biden is currently at Camp David, which

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Speaker 1: is the president's country retreat, where he's surrounded by his

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Speaker 1: family and they're trying to figure out how they can

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Speaker 1: manage the anxieties of the Democrats and what the next

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Speaker 1: steps will be in their campaign. And I think there's

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Speaker 1: also just one thing that's really important to note. I

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Speaker 1: think we can get carried away talking about the debate

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Speaker 1: and analyzing the debate and Biden's performance or Trump's performance

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Speaker 1: for that matter, and I think it's important to just

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Speaker 1: remember that debates don't necessarily win or lose elections. So

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Speaker 1: if we cast our minds back to twenty sixteen when

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton was running against Donald Trump, Clinton won pretty

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Speaker 1: much every debate between the two of them, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the polls also pointed to her winning on

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Speaker 1: the day, as we know, she wants to be right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she lost in twenty sixteen. It was a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a shock for most people, but it just goes

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Speaker 1: to show that You really just don't know what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen until people are filling out the ballots on

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Speaker 1: the day and that they go in there with their

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Speaker 1: little pencils and they choose who they actually want to

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Speaker 1: be their president exactly.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that explanation, Harry, and thanks

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Speaker 2: for listening to The Daily os. If you learn something

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Speaker 2: from today's episode, you can hit follow on Apple or Spotify,

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Speaker 2: and if you are watching this episode on YouTube, you

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Speaker 2: can hit subscribe.

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Speaker 4: We'll see you again tomorrow. Bye.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Dunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Kalgutin woman from Gadigal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

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Speaker 1: peoples of these countries, both past and present.