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Speaker 1: The discussion about what the best methods are to protect

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Speaker 1: Darwin's golden snapper stocks. It's heating up after the commercial

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Speaker 1: industry hit out at the Fisheries Department on the show yesterday,

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Speaker 1: claiming that the data being relied upon relating to the

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Speaker 1: health of the fishery is flawed. Now they believe that

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Speaker 1: the government's preparing to implement a widespread closure of reef

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Speaker 1: fishing and are demanding that they think twice before doing so.

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Speaker 1: Now joining us in the studio is the Senior Director

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Speaker 1: of Aquatic Resources from the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries,

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Speaker 1: Pipper Hunter. Good morning to you, Pipper.

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Speaker 2: Oh morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you coming in and having a chat to us about

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Speaker 1: this because I know that the discussion is certainly heating

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Speaker 1: up and people are quite worried at the moment. But look,

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Speaker 1: from the Department's perspective, are golden snapper at a critical stage?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, they are. We release the most recent stock

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Speaker 2: assessment in set Timber of last year, and that really

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Speaker 2: built on the previous ten years of information that found

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Speaker 2: a consistent trend that golden snapper were in trouble and

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Speaker 2: so you know, I know, there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: discussion yesterday about the data that went into these stock assessments,

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Speaker 2: and so I just did just want to point out that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the data that goes into these comes from

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Speaker 2: multiple different sources. So not only do we have data

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Speaker 2: from the fishing tourism operators and the commercial industry, but

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Speaker 2: we also have wreck phishing surveys that goes into this

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Speaker 2: as well as you know, broader biological and scientific information.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, we bring that all together and

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Speaker 2: you know when we released before we released this stock assessment,

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Speaker 2: we had it independently reviewed by national experts from CSIRO

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Speaker 2: and they found that it was appropriate to use and

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Speaker 2: appropriate to rely on and you know, inform the community.

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Speaker 1: So talk us through how the department sort of gathers

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Speaker 1: that data. I know, it sounds like it's coming from

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Speaker 1: a lot of different sources. Exactly do you gather it

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Speaker 1: and put it all together? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sure, So under their license conditions, fishing tourism operators and

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Speaker 2: commercial industry are required to supply that information to the

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Speaker 2: department under their license, whereas rec fishing surveys. We've got

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Speaker 2: a variety of you know, experts who go out predominantly

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Speaker 2: across the dry season and survey reckfishes on you know,

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Speaker 2: as they come in on jetties and boat ramps and

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Speaker 2: things like that, and all of that data is then

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Speaker 2: combined by our scientists, you know, and run through you know,

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Speaker 2: international models. There are standards and ways of doing this

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Speaker 2: that you know, fisheries, as I said, was found to

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Speaker 2: be meeting and appropriate to use.

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Speaker 1: Now I know that we had the Guided Fishing Industry

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Speaker 1: Association on yesterday and Blame Simmons had questioned the data

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Speaker 1: and how it's being used by the department. Look, what

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Speaker 1: do you say to that criticism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, so you know, as you can always improve

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Speaker 2: the data, yep. However, the you know, we've got to

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Speaker 2: go on the best available data that we've got at

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Speaker 2: the time. And the fact is golden snapper have been

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Speaker 2: identified at fourteen percent, and so once that falls below

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Speaker 2: twenty percent, we as fisheries managers are obligated to act.

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Speaker 2: That's you know, a national and international benchmark. And so

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Speaker 2: you know, without without rebuilding the stocks golden snapper in

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Speaker 2: the Greater Darwin region are at risk of collapse.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, to the layman listening right now, lot,

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Speaker 1: what does that actually mean? What's what's it going to

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Speaker 1: mean if you go out fishing on the weekend with

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Speaker 1: your family, you know, if you're a recreational fisher, what's

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Speaker 1: it going to me?

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Speaker 2: Sure? So it means that you know, the reports that

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Speaker 2: are coming in and this is some of the questions

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Speaker 2: in the Have Your Say survey are about, you know,

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Speaker 2: the regular larity of catching golden snapper. You know, the

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Speaker 2: fish are reported to be being smaller and that's because

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Speaker 2: they're all, you know, predominantly juveniles. The breeding stock has

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Speaker 2: gone from Darwin Harbor and if you don't have breeding

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Speaker 2: stock then in the future you are at risk of

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Speaker 2: collapse in the Darwin region, you know. So that would

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Speaker 2: mean that it would affect fishing for families out here

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Speaker 2: and part of the territory lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: So Pepper the industry says, the assumption the departments relying

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Speaker 1: on is that the Darwin golden snapper, well the golden

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Speaker 1: snapper in Darwin in the region are closed and isolated

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Speaker 1: stock with no connection or recruitment to healthy offshore or

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Speaker 1: adjacent populations. Is that the case?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the information that we've got at the moment

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Speaker 2: indicates that it is a separate population. There is some

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Speaker 2: you know, the science isn't finalized and there's some more

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Speaker 2: work to do. I think what's been really interesting as

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Speaker 2: we've been doing to have your say survey loud and

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Speaker 2: clear from the community. We've really heard that any future

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Speaker 2: Golden Snapper plan needs to include more science, more monitoring

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Speaker 2: and data and increased reporting. And the other thing that

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Speaker 2: the community has been interested in is the compliance. If

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Speaker 2: we're going to have a plan, you know, how are

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Speaker 2: we going to make sure that we're able to implement it?

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Speaker 1: And so that survey is obviously out at the moment

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Speaker 1: for consultation the industry. Will they say that it's expected

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Speaker 1: that there's going to be a widespread closure of up

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Speaker 1: to well a possible nine months. Is that what the

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Speaker 1: department is considering or going to suggest to the minister?

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Speaker 2: So absolutely not, Katie. At this point they're no decision

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Speaker 2: has been made, so they have your say. We are

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Speaker 2: at the information gathering stage and so we are really

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Speaker 2: keen to hear from all territorians. You know, I did

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Speaker 2: just want to point out the team's done such a

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Speaker 2: great job at getting out and about we've been at

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Speaker 2: Boat ramps, at tackles, at markets. We're off to Dundee

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Speaker 2: this Sunday, looking forward to hearing what the community has

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Speaker 2: to say. You know, we're on billboards at cash arena.

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Speaker 2: We are really trying to get everyone's feedback, and if

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Speaker 2: people have comments on you know, the data or other things,

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Speaker 2: then we encourage them to put that into the survey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Pepper, I suppose I listened to this whole conversation,

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Speaker 1: you know, not from a commercial perspective. I certainly hear

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Speaker 1: what they were saying very loudly and clearly yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: I think it could have such a massive impact if

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Speaker 1: there are widespread closures on their business and on their industry.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to them? What do

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Speaker 1: you say to those commercial operators that are really concerned

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Speaker 1: about what's potentially going to happen here?

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Speaker 2: Sure, so I suppose, you know, we're just really really

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Speaker 2: trying to hear from the whole community at this point.

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Speaker 2: I will point out that as part of any regulatory

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Speaker 2: change and economic and social impact must study must be done,

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Speaker 2: But that's a bit further down the line, like where

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Speaker 2: it's step one, and just trying to hear from the

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Speaker 2: community at this point. Yeah, I know, like.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's really early stages right now. And I'm

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Speaker 1: certainly I'm not a fishing expert in any way. But

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Speaker 1: you know, when you go out fishing, yep, you might

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Speaker 1: think to yourself, Oh, love to catch you know, a

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Speaker 1: golden snapper today, or I'd love to you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be you know, I'm going to this spot.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to aim for, you know, catching a big

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Speaker 1: barrel or whatever. You know. But sometimes you're in an

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Speaker 1: area where you don't actually know what you're going to catch.

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Speaker 1: You know, you you go out, let's say you're out

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Speaker 1: on the harbor. You know, you're throwing a line and

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Speaker 1: you're not one hundred percent sure what you're going to catch.

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Speaker 1: So how are you going to stop people from fishing?

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Speaker 1: You know, how are you going to sort of stop

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Speaker 1: them from overfishing snapper? Like I said, I know that's

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Speaker 1: a real layman question, but for me, that's the way

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're not the first person to raise that.

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Speaker 2: I think how the plan is implemented is a little

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Speaker 2: bit further down the line. But a lot of the

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Speaker 2: work that you're talking about, it's about stewardship. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's been brought up that we have some of the

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Speaker 2: best barrel Monday stewardship, and that's part of the reason

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Speaker 2: we've got the best barre mundy fishery in Australia is

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Speaker 2: because you know, socially unacceptable to necomediay or to hold

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Speaker 2: the hold the fish wrong, whereas it's still acceptable to

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Speaker 2: go out and you know, fill a freezer of golden snapper.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, the wreck fishing component of the

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Speaker 2: golden snapper is about seventy seventy five percent. So I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of this will be at stewardship and

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Speaker 2: behavior change and yeah, encouraging social change. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: There has also been criticism that fisheries is known about

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Speaker 1: golden snapper stock concerns for over a decade and is

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Speaker 1: now blaming recreational and charter sectors for the problem.

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Speaker 2: Is that the case, Look, you know, I think some

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Speaker 2: of the previous guests on your show pointed out it

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Speaker 2: was more than a decade. I think they sort of

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Speaker 2: said it was, you know, sort of fifteen twenty that

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Speaker 2: golden snapper had been in trouble. You know, that's certainly

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Speaker 2: what the science shows and it's a continuing decline. And

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Speaker 2: as I said, it was that it's that threshold that

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Speaker 2: of the fourteen percent below twenty percent, that means that,

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Speaker 2: you know, action has to be taken. And so we're

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Speaker 2: keen to hear from the community. What kind of action

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Speaker 2: should that be, you know, what would they support. There's

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Speaker 2: a range of different things that could happen, and so we're, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're really keen to hear. I know that the.

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Speaker 1: Industry had put forth as well a ten points path,

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Speaker 1: including an independent peer review, full inclusion of all catch data,

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Speaker 1: and public release of tagging data. Is there the chance

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Speaker 1: for those to be taken up?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, at this point, everything's on the table. We

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Speaker 2: are working closely with peak bodies, including the tour guides

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Speaker 2: at the moment. You know, we are committed to resolving

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Speaker 2: some of the issues that they raised yesterday about the

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Speaker 2: capturing of data and what have you into the future,

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Speaker 2: and that's certainly something that you know that we can

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Speaker 2: look at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Pippa, it's quite the job that you guys have

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Speaker 1: got on your hands at the moment, isn't it. Because

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Speaker 1: people love their fishing, they love being able to get

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Speaker 1: out on the water. You know, they want to be

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Speaker 1: able to run their businesses that they've run for a

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Speaker 1: number of years. They want to be able to go

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Speaker 1: out recreationally and enjoy themselves. How do we reach a

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Speaker 1: consensus on a decision that is supporting all parties, you know,

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Speaker 1: as like the government, the recreational and commercial sectors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's you know, finding the balance between

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Speaker 2: all of those those features is what's going to be challenging,

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Speaker 2: I think as well challenging the needs of right now

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Speaker 2: versus you know, the long term territory lifestyle, you know

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Speaker 2: for generations to come catching a goldie out in Darwin

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Speaker 2: Harbor and so, you know, the first step is hearing

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Speaker 2: some of these thoughts where certainly getting you know, the

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Speaker 2: responses are coming in thick and fast, and not just

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Speaker 2: on the survey. There's there for you to upload submissions.

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Speaker 2: So some people have just written a letter and uploaded

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Speaker 2: that and yeah, it's all being you know, it will

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Speaker 2: all be brought together in a central analysis and then

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Speaker 2: you know, from there, yeah, you know, the next steps

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Speaker 2: will be taken.

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Speaker 1: So basically gathering that further data now from this survey,

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Speaker 1: going through all of that as well as the scientific

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Speaker 1: data that you've got and then trying to plan the

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Speaker 1: steps forward. So to those out there listening this morning,

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Speaker 1: they're not like, are we not expecting closures anywhere at

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Speaker 1: this point?

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Speaker 2: There is no decision has been made at this point. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and so we really, you know, the advice from the

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Speaker 2: Peak bodies actually as part of the development of this,

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Speaker 2: was that we need the community support behind anything we do.

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Speaker 2: You know, the Golden Snapper you know, belong to all

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Speaker 2: of us, and so making sure we've got that community

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Speaker 2: buy in. And so that's why we've come out and

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Speaker 2: we're really you know, going full as hard as we

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Speaker 2: can to get everyone's opinions. The survey closes on the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixth of April, and so right up until then,

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Speaker 2: it's on you know, social media. It's yeah, everywhere you

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Speaker 2: could everywhere you look.

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Speaker 1: If you Google have your saye golden you will be

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Speaker 1: able to find it well. Philippa Hunter, Senior Director Aquatic

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Speaker 1: Resources with the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for joining us,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much,