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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now as they've seen me be open to trying new

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Speaker 2: experiences and to do something that kind of challenges me,

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Speaker 2: they're actually wanting to be a part of the process.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Right now, I can't get a song out of my

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Speaker 3: head Lenny Kravitz fly Away, Oh, get up.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I know that one. Oh, come on, No,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of John Denver's.

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Speaker 3: Leaving on a jet plane, leaven on a jet plane,

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Speaker 3: on a jet plane, Steve Miller band jet airliner.

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Speaker 2: And then I've got this crazy song. I don't even

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Speaker 2: know where it came from. It might not even be

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Speaker 2: a song. It just says, well, it's fine away.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea what that is, but I love

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Speaker 3: the way you've scrunched up your nose when you're saying it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's an invitation.

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Speaker 3: Just let's find why do you have.

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Speaker 2: Because yesterday you told me where you're taking me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so it's happening. This is our twenty fifth winning

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Speaker 3: anniversary weekend. We're heading away, We're leaving the kids literally well,

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Speaker 3: depending on when you listening to this, the podcast dropping

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Speaker 3: and in a few hours time we're out of here.

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Speaker 2: We're on a jet plane to Queenstown, like you sellen.

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Speaker 3: And where the temperature instead of the balmy, humid, muggy,

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Speaker 3: what like thirty plus degrees that it's been on the

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Speaker 3: Sunshine Coast, is going to be.

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Speaker 2: About four degree.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait. It's going to be really exciting. Our

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Speaker 3: old thibeddit tomorrow. Today is not about our trip though,

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Speaker 3: our old thibed it tomorrow, as always, is about how

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Speaker 3: we can be better parents based on the experiences that

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Speaker 3: we've had with our parenting this past week. I wonder

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Speaker 3: if you want to go first today?

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Speaker 2: Sure. So. One of the things that I have recognized

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Speaker 2: about myself for a very long time is I have

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Speaker 2: actually allowed fear to govern a lot of the choices

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Speaker 2: I makes. Yeah, a fear of failure, fear of just

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Speaker 2: making a mistake, fear of not getting it right, fear

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Speaker 2: of not understanding what it is I need to do

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Speaker 2: and therefore I'll just look silly, like, just so much

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Speaker 2: fear around that, and so over the years there's been

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Speaker 2: so many things that I want to try, but it's

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Speaker 2: literally stopped me from even contemplating whether or not it's possible,

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Speaker 2: because I just don't want to look silly.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So last week I was able to spend some time

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Speaker 2: at the health resort and just start to do some

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Speaker 2: deep diving into some of my own thought processes and

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Speaker 2: why I think the way I think and why I

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Speaker 2: do things the way I do. And as part of

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Speaker 2: that experience, I was actually able to try a couple

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Speaker 2: of craft experiences that I've wanted to do but have

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Speaker 2: been too scared to try before. One of them is

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Speaker 2: Potter I've actually done. I've played with clay a handful

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Speaker 2: of times, but again, just the experience hasn't been great.

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Speaker 2: There was just something different about this experience. The teacher

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Speaker 2: had everything prepped, so it was just it was a

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Speaker 2: really smooth process, and the group of girls that I

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Speaker 2: was with we just sat there and talked, so I

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Speaker 2: was kind of not really in my head. I was

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Speaker 2: just in the moment, you know, in the middle of

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Speaker 2: this conversation before I realized I'd completed this thing. And

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Speaker 2: then the other one was the same teacher, but he

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Speaker 2: got us weaving a basket out of palm fronds and

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Speaker 2: when I looked at it, I was like, this looks

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Speaker 2: really silly. But I woke up the next morning and

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Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, this is actually pretty awesome.

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Speaker 3: I made a basket. I made a basket which our

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Speaker 3: dogs subsequently tore apart.

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Speaker 2: Don't remind me plain Sorry, But that led to thinking

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Speaker 2: about all of these other creative outlets that I've wanted

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Speaker 2: to do but I haven't, and so ev Our wonderful.

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Speaker 2: What do you even call it these days? Do you

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Speaker 2: have a title?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Evelyn is our. I don't know what the title is.

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Speaker 3: She titled herself, but she's important part of our team essential.

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Speaker 2: She's a graphic designer. She's just jack of all trades.

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Speaker 2: This woman, she's amazing. And she was coming up to

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Speaker 2: spend a few days with you doing strategy and planning

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Speaker 2: for the next few months, and she said, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to bring up my art box and we're going to

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Speaker 2: sit down and we're going to do some art. And

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Speaker 2: so for a couple of nights while she was here,

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Speaker 2: I did something that I have never done before. And

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Speaker 2: not only did I love the process, what I really

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Speaker 2: loved was the fact that I was able to let

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Speaker 2: go and just enjoy doing very new experience for me,

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Speaker 2: especially in that creative space. Well, I came home and

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Speaker 2: the joy was having our nineteen year old, who is

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Speaker 2: very artistic, look at me and say, Mum, which one's

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Speaker 2: the OG? Do you know what OG stands for?

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Speaker 3: It's the original?

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Speaker 2: Yes, me, I had no idea what she was talking about. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so she was pretty impressed. And then obviously all of

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Speaker 2: the other kids came in and they had a look

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Speaker 2: and they saw what I had done, and they were

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Speaker 2: very excited to see.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: I did another one the next and I decided to

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Speaker 2: go out and buy myself a whole heap of art supplies,

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Speaker 2: and Emily was with me and she said, well, I

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Speaker 2: want a book two. I want to do what you're doing. Well,

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Speaker 2: Lily came into our room the following day and she

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Speaker 2: saw the second picture that I had done, and the

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Speaker 2: next thing she said, Mum, do you think next time

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Speaker 2: you do that I can join you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Such a simple thing, but because I was willing to

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Speaker 2: get out of my comfort zone, It's not something Lily's

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Speaker 2: ever engaged in. And what I loved about it was

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Speaker 2: this has just open up this avenue for me to

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Speaker 2: spend time with the kids without taking much effort at all.

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Speaker 2: As they've seen me be open to trying new experiences

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Speaker 2: and to do something that kind of challenges me, they're

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Speaker 2: actually wanting to be a part of the process.

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Speaker 3: There's a couple of things that we need to draw

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Speaker 3: out here from this really important I'll do better tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: First of all, play A lot of parents will say,

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Speaker 3: and we did a podcast just recently about it, a

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Speaker 3: lot of parents will say, I hate playing with the kids,

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Speaker 3: so boring. So play is supposed to be both enjoyable

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Speaker 3: and intrinsic. That is, it's something that you do for

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Speaker 3: the sake of doing it. And if you're involved in

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Speaker 3: activity that you're not doing for the sake of it,

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Speaker 3: then it's not intrinsic and it's probably not going to

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Speaker 3: feel playful. What I love about the activity that you're

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Speaker 3: describing is you want to draw, you want to do

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Speaker 3: art and craft simply for the sake of doing it. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't serve any purpose. It's not like we're going to

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Speaker 3: I mean, maybe we will, but it's unlikely that we're

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Speaker 3: going to frame all of your art and put it

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Speaker 3: all over our walls.

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Speaker 2: I have a book just so you're I know, but

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Speaker 2: you're freaking out.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I have a book.

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Speaker 2: It's all attached pages.

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Speaker 1: We can.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm amazed. I always knew that you were artie,

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Speaker 3: but I had no idea how artie. So I just

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Speaker 3: wanted to emphasize play is critical. The second thing is involvement.

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Speaker 3: When kids see us playing, even things that they don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily feel drawn to, they're drawn to us. They want

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Speaker 3: to be involved, and it becomes intrinsically orienting for them

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Speaker 3: as well. But the critical thing that I want to

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Speaker 3: ask you about after those two observations is what was

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Speaker 3: it that made you willing to do something that you

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Speaker 3: were afraid of failing? Like I remember you saying to me,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that I can do this drawing thing

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Speaker 3: because I'm no good at it.

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Speaker 2: I'm terrible at drawing.

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Speaker 3: What switched it for you?

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Speaker 2: It was actually ev She did just the most brilliant

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Speaker 2: thing to start things off. We sat there, We looked

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Speaker 2: at her because both Caroline and I were kind of

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Speaker 2: we're not creative in that space at all, didn't feel

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Speaker 2: like we knew what we were doing. We kind of

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Speaker 2: looked at her blankly and like, and she knew that

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Speaker 2: if she didn't do something. We were going to sit

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Speaker 2: there for an hour and a half. Starts they're a

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Speaker 2: piece of paper, and so she said, all right, this

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Speaker 2: is it. This is what we're going to do. She said,

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Speaker 2: we're each going to have one piece of paper. We're

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Speaker 2: going to pick a picture. So we picked a pansy.

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Speaker 2: Just she had a little how to book with nine

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Speaker 2: steps how to draw a pansy, and she said, we

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Speaker 2: are going to draw one step each and then we're

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Speaker 2: going to pass the page around. Literally by her telling

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Speaker 2: me that I had no control over how the outcome

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Speaker 2: was going to turn out because I could only do

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Speaker 2: I could only have control over the steps that I

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Speaker 2: was drawing. Something switched. It was literally like a light

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Speaker 2: bulb and I was like, I don't have any control

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Speaker 2: over this. Let's just draw, Okay.

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Speaker 3: So let's bring this back to what is My new book,

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Speaker 3: Pairing Revolution is all about, comes out like in the

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Speaker 3: next month or so. It's about autonomy, competence, and relatedness.

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Speaker 3: So relatedness means we're doing things in an involved way,

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Speaker 3: connecting with others. That's what you're doing. That's why you

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Speaker 3: were there in the first place. I want to sit

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Speaker 3: down with these two great girls great ladies, and do

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Speaker 3: some art with them. So relatedness need tick involvement. Second

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Speaker 3: one is competence. You've frozen up over competence because your

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Speaker 3: competence needs are fragile, and by everyone's saying you cannot

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Speaker 3: control this outcome. We're not really testing your competence anymore.

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Speaker 3: We're just getting you to step one, and then someone

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Speaker 3: else to do step two, and someone else to do

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Speaker 3: step three. All of a sudden, that frees you up

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Speaker 3: to not worry about competence, which ironically and paradoxically facilitates

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Speaker 3: your development of competence because now you're unfrozen and you're

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Speaker 3: willing to try.

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Speaker 2: It was unbelievable. Honestly, I would never have thought that

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Speaker 2: that would have worked, but it was instant.

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Speaker 3: The third psychological need that is satisfied is autonomy. You

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Speaker 3: were doing it because you wanted to do it. No

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Speaker 3: one was forcing you. You actually chose to be there

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Speaker 3: to build the relationship and ultimately have the competence building experience.

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Speaker 3: This is not a parenting story. I'll do better tomorrow

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Speaker 3: is about how to become a better parent. The wonderful

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Speaker 3: thing about it, though, is the principles applied to parenting

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Speaker 3: and because you've had this experience, it's.

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Speaker 2: Opened me up to parenting experiences. Yeah, and that I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have had without this.

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Speaker 3: So after dinner, once things are tidy now in the evening,

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Speaker 3: you consider at the dining table with the kids with

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Speaker 3: those art supplies that you went bored and you can

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Speaker 3: all draw and you can do the same thing with them,

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Speaker 3: which means they're not freaking out about the outcome and

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Speaker 3: how it looks. They're just building relationships, developing competence, and

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Speaker 3: choosing to be there because it feels good.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually really excited.

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Speaker 3: So my I'll do better tomorrow is also not parenting related,

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Speaker 3: and we don't talk about this ahead of time. I

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Speaker 3: know nothing about what you're going to talk about. You

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Speaker 3: know nothing about what I'm going to talk about. But

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Speaker 3: my I'd do better tomorrow is actually kind of a

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Speaker 3: really simple and fairly short one. I haven't shouted it

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Speaker 3: from the rooftops, but I also haven't made a secret

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Speaker 3: of it. The last couple of months have not been

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Speaker 3: great for me mentally and psychologically. I did mention it

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Speaker 3: on the older but it tomorrow podcast a couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks ago, where I said I feel like I want

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Speaker 3: to quit parenting. We talked last week about how I

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Speaker 3: went rock climbing and how scary that was for me,

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Speaker 3: But I pushed myself beyond my boundaries and we've got

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Speaker 3: the raising resilient kids somemit coming up. And I did

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Speaker 3: something hard, and doing hard things ironically makes you more resilient,

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Speaker 3: whereas if you don't get to do hard things, you

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Speaker 3: don't get to be more resilient because you're not doing

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Speaker 3: hard things and pushing through challenges. So that was really

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Speaker 3: great for me. But then you went away, and I

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Speaker 3: don't remember if I mentioned this last week or not,

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Speaker 3: but I started riding my bike again. This is the

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Speaker 3: second week in a row where I've pumped out about

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Speaker 3: two hundred k's, which is not a huge week, but

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Speaker 3: it's properly exercising again. It means that I'm getting up

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Speaker 3: at four am. It means that I'm riding really hard

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Speaker 3: several days a week for an hour and a half

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Speaker 3: to two hours, and the only time that I can

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Speaker 3: do it is from four am till six am. But

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Speaker 3: can I ask you a question about my well being,

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Speaker 3: about my mental health? Have you noticed a difference in

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Speaker 3: the last week. Have you noticed that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just I don't think it's a bike ride. I

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Speaker 2: think that I came home.

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Speaker 3: You came home, and we're about to go away. I

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Speaker 3: know that there's probably a confluence of factors, but I

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Speaker 3: am loving, as insane as it sounds. I'm loving getting

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Speaker 3: up at four o'clock in the morning. I'm loving being

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Speaker 3: on the bike by four h five or four ten.

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Speaker 3: And I'm loving riding through the foothills of the Sunshine

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Speaker 3: Coast and busting myself, like absolutely riding my backside off

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Speaker 3: and coming home completely flogged at six am, ready to

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Speaker 3: get on with my day. And I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: making me happier, and it's making me engage better with

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Speaker 3: the kids. It's making me a better parent, better husband.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like I'm a better person

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Speaker 3: when I'm smashing my body. Does it make sense?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't to me at all. But I have recognized

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Speaker 2: and seen it, especially over the last few months, as

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Speaker 2: I've seen you kind of peter and struggle that physical

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Speaker 2: activity is imperative to your sense of wellbeing. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it's exciting that you've got something that you love doing.

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Speaker 2: And we both now have complete acknowledgment we're both on

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Speaker 2: the same page that this is actually really important for

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Speaker 2: you to maintain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the take our message of our podcast

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Speaker 3: for both of us, unintentionally and unplanned, is parents need outlets.

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Speaker 3: We become better when we have outlets, especially when those

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Speaker 3: outlets challenge us and drive us to be more competent,

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Speaker 3: driver us to push beyond boundaries, drivers to do hard things,

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Speaker 3: makes us more resilient, makes us feel more self efficacious.

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Speaker 3: But it's good for our relationships and it's good for

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Speaker 3: our wellbeing. At least that's how it feels for me

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Speaker 3: thinking about your last week and that story, and think

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Speaker 3: about what has been like for me as I've started

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Speaker 3: to push my physical boundaries again.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about you, but I'm going to

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Speaker 2: catch a plane. Can we can we make this sure?

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Speaker 3: Let's go. We really appreciate you listen to the Happy

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Speaker 3: Families podcast. We hope that it's great. Let's get out

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Speaker 3: of here, Jr. Thanks for doing all this stuff, Craig.

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Speaker 3: We appreciate your executive production. I'm not going to do

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Speaker 3: the prop of Fairwell Happy Anniversary. I'm just gonna say

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Speaker 3: that to everyone else. It's ours.

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Speaker 1: Let's go.

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Speaker 3: Let's have an anniversary. We'll see you on Monday, with

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Speaker 3: a whole lot more on the Happy Families podcast. I'm

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Speaker 3: sorry

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Speaker 1: You