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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: once answers.

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Speaker 1: Now Today on the Happy Families Podcast, something that you

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Speaker 1: may not have heard about before. It's called the region

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Speaker 1: Beta paradox, the region Beata paradox. Kylie, do you like

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Speaker 1: it when I use those really big words. It's something

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Speaker 1: very useful. Have you heard of the region beata paradox?

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Speaker 2: Come on, this is not a doctor's desk. No, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing?

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Speaker 1: OK. Here's the very short version of what the region

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Speaker 1: Beata paradox is and why it applies to parenting. There

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Speaker 1: are these things in life that are mildly annoying that

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Speaker 1: we put up with them. A case in point, I've

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Speaker 1: got a headlight on my car that is flickering at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and it's annoying, but it seems like it's

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Speaker 1: going to be more annoying to have to go into

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Speaker 1: the shop and get it fixed up, because headlights on

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Speaker 1: cars are annoying and there's stuff, and so I'm just

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Speaker 1: dealing with the flickering headlight. But when I drive at night,

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Speaker 1: it looks like I'm flashing people in the cars and

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Speaker 1: promium like flashing with my headlights just want to clarify that.

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Speaker 1: And that can become embarrassing. And I've had a couple

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Speaker 1: of people give me to It looks like they think

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Speaker 1: that I'm telling that they're not driving well and it's

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Speaker 1: leading to problems. Here's another example. I saw knee, but

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Speaker 1: it's not bad enough to see the doctor.

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Speaker 2: What about the dripping drip drip outside my window?

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Speaker 1: Oh, the gutter that leaks, the gutter that leaks. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the pile of stuff is it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: It's like the smallest sound.

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Speaker 1: I'll make you a deal, but you can hear. I'll

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Speaker 1: make a deal. You fix up the pile of pictures

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Speaker 1: and mess that you've got in the corner of my

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Speaker 1: office that's been driving me crazy for a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: and I'll do something about the gutter.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you're saying that we've just painted the

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Speaker 2: walls and you don't want holes back in there.

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Speaker 1: So the region beata paradox is this over time, these

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Speaker 1: more mild discomforts, like.

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Speaker 2: The way you leave socks under the table.

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Speaker 1: All these mildly discomforts.

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Speaker 2: Try to put the toilet seat relationships. Hey, I I

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Speaker 2: will steal my pillow.

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Speaker 1: Can I just be really clear. I am very good

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Speaker 1: with the toilet seat, and have been for twenty seven years.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm very very good with that six daughters, and

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Speaker 1: let's move on. These mild discomforts and these mild challenging

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Speaker 1: relationships can end up lasting much.

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Speaker 2: Long to say, our challenge our relationship.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, we've got a podcast to do here.

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Speaker 1: This is getting a little bit challenging. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start that again. What I said was the paradox the

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Speaker 1: region beata paradox is very very simple.

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Speaker 2: I have to lighten this up. It's not a doctor's desk.

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Speaker 1: You know, These mild this now, I can't even speak.

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Speaker 1: These mildly challenging things or these mildly challenging relationships and

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Speaker 1: people can end up becoming very very very challenging across

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Speaker 1: the long term and cause you more upset and more

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Speaker 1: damage than a situation or a person or an event

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Speaker 1: or a leagy gutta if you just go and deal

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Speaker 1: with it like but we think that it's you get

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Speaker 1: the really acutely upsetting stuff and you act on it.

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Speaker 2: Right. But it's a squeaky world. It's that concept, right.

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Speaker 2: The squeaky will gets the most attention.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, because the gutter is a squeaky will,

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Speaker 1: but it's not quite squeaky enough. No, that's the point.

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Speaker 1: It's not urgent exactly. So something that is quite acute

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Speaker 1: and upsetting you take action straight away and you resolve it,

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Speaker 1: and then the distress doesn't last. But the cumulative total

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Speaker 1: of the days and the weeks and the months and

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Speaker 1: the years of that drip drip drip, that makes it

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Speaker 1: all too much. And what I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: today is how this applies in parenting, how it applies

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Speaker 1: in relationships, how it applies for couples. Because I think

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Speaker 1: that the region beata paradox is one of the most

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Speaker 1: interesting psychological phenomen that nobody ever talks about. So that's

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Speaker 1: why it needs a bit of name. Well, we're three

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Speaker 1: and a half minutes in and I've only just finished

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Speaker 1: the description of what it is, which is not a

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Speaker 1: good indicator of where this podcast. Okay, okay, I'm blaming you.

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Speaker 1: I could have had that done in thirty seconds. You've

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Speaker 1: really made.

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Speaker 2: That up to Parents sometimes overlook those minor annoyance.

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Speaker 1: All the time because they think that it's insignificant compared

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Speaker 1: to a major problem. So our child's wingy, whiny thingy,

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Speaker 1: we just kind of go, all right, I'll deal with

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Speaker 1: it later because I'm tired and I've got other things

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Speaker 1: on my plate, and so we don't we don't deal

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thinking of one of our daughters. She's always

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Speaker 2: had an anxious disposition, and I talked to you about

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Speaker 2: it and you said, no, no, it'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're handling it. We're handling it.

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Speaker 2: But over time it's actually it has exacerbated, it has

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Speaker 2: gotten worse, and we've actually needed to seek medical attention.

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Speaker 1: So what he's saying, maybe if we'd addressed it earlier,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm about to have some fingers pointed

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Speaker 1: at me.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not a finger pointing thing, but it's an

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Speaker 2: acknowledgment that sometimes we look at these things and kind

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Speaker 2: of just brush it off. I don't know how many

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Speaker 2: times the parents kind of said to me, I thought

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Speaker 2: they just rolled over and hurt themselves in and two

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Speaker 2: days later take them to the doctor's got.

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Speaker 1: A broken arm.

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Speaker 2: And they've got a broken arm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it's really hard because there's a fine line, right,

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Speaker 2: you go the other way and you become almost like

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Speaker 2: a helicopter parent who jumps on every symptom and.

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Speaker 1: Drives every on crazy. That's including the kids. If you

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Speaker 1: speak about the issue with the anxiety with this particular daughter,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, I've got a pH

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Speaker 1: d in psychology and I'm saying, yeah, there's definitely something

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Speaker 1: going on here, but we've got this, like, we've got

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Speaker 1: the skills, we've got the capacity to deal with this.

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Speaker 1: And yet when you dismiss that whining or the interrupting

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Speaker 1: or the anxiety or the nerves or whatever, it's just

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Speaker 1: a phase if you leave it unaddressed, as we discovered

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Speaker 1: with our child, even though we are pretty well equipped

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Speaker 1: to manage this stuff. I thought, these behaviors can become habitual,

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Speaker 1: and they can cause distress for the child. They can

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Speaker 1: cause dysfunction, they can strain relationships. You get a child who,

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Speaker 1: let's see, you got an ADHD kid constantly constantly interrupting.

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Speaker 1: And what happens is if we don't help them, and

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Speaker 1: if we don't work through things here and create an

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Speaker 1: environment that's going to be supportive and help them to

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Speaker 1: function effectively, maybe they struggle to listen attentively in school

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Speaker 1: or social situations and that exacerbates things for them.

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Speaker 2: Again, I think it's really important to understand that small

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Speaker 2: annoyances in our children can have a significant impact on

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Speaker 2: the dynamic within our family, yes, or the child's development

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Speaker 2: if left unaddressed.

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Speaker 1: And that's the main thing that I'm really highlighting, is

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Speaker 1: not you get this region beat paradox where you're saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's annoying, Okay, I'll deal with it one day. If

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Speaker 1: it gets any worse, I'll go and see the doctor,

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Speaker 1: I'll go and see the psychologists, go and see the

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Speaker 1: school counselor. But that day never really arrives until kaboom,

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Speaker 1: and then it becomes really acute. But that might be

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Speaker 1: a couple of years down the road. And you've created

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Speaker 1: these patterns, You've created these systems, and potentially you have

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Speaker 1: inadvertently created, with the best of intentions, a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of dysfunction around the relationship or just in the child

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Speaker 1: because it hasn't passed that threshold of discomfort. It's been

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Speaker 1: mildly annoying but not uncomfortable enough to act on, but

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Speaker 1: it really needed to be acted on. It's like when

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Speaker 1: you hurt your knee and you'd rather limp on it

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Speaker 1: for two and a half years before you go and

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Speaker 1: see the surgeon. Right.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because as we're talking about this, I'm actually

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Speaker 2: thinking about one of our daughters. When she was younger.

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Speaker 2: She actually said very few words for the first three years,

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Speaker 2: and then literally woke up on her third birthday having

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Speaker 2: only given us single word responses to everything for three

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Speaker 2: years and says, mum, can I have a drink of water?

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Speaker 2: And it blew us away. But from that moment on

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Speaker 2: she has not stopped talking. She's an adult now, she

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Speaker 2: has not stopped talking at a rapid pace. But after

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Speaker 2: her her next sister came along and she was the same.

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Speaker 2: We hardly got any words out of her, and I

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Speaker 2: just thought, oh, okay, we're following a pattern. Everything will

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Speaker 2: be fine. She was a completely different child, and we

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Speaker 2: ended up spending significant time and years with her in

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Speaker 2: speech pathology.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think she was maybe six or seven before

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Speaker 1: she was speaking properly. It was a really big deal.

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Speaker 1: But we let that.

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Speaker 2: Go because the previous experience.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, and because we thought she was kind of

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Speaker 1: making progress until we realized, hang on this, there is

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Speaker 1: a threshold here, and we probably need to lower our

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Speaker 1: threshold and get help earlier as a result. There's something

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Speaker 1: else to consider here as well, and that is the

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Speaker 1: constant barrage of minor stresses like whining, and like sibling

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Speaker 1: squabbles and the bedtime battles and the fussy eating. They

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Speaker 1: can also it's not just about the child's function and

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Speaker 1: how well they're doing. They can also impact our well

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Speaker 1: being and contribute to burnout. It's kind of for a parent,

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Speaker 1: it's like the Chinese water torture. It's like death by

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Speaker 1: a thousand cards. Every single one of these small stresses

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Speaker 1: just keeps on chipping away at our patients and our energy.

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Speaker 1: We become exhausted, we become irritable, we become sometimes resentful

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Speaker 1: towards our children. And that again, is this region beat

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Speaker 1: a paradox. We probably need to talk about solutions, but.

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Speaker 2: I just find it.

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Speaker 1: It's such a fascinating thing and I want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we explain it properly well.

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest challenge is then when we feel

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Speaker 2: stressed as parents, our kids pick up on that and

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Speaker 2: adds to the stress and the cycle of negativity that

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Speaker 2: we're experiencing. And when we're stressed, we're not at our

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Speaker 2: best either. So we're reacting harshly to our kids, Like,

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Speaker 2: there's so many different dynamics that we look at.

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Speaker 1: When you're just saying this. The US Surgeon General Vic

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Speaker 1: Murphy a couple of months ago, he put out a

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Speaker 1: health advisory warning on parenting. He literally said, parenting can

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Speaker 1: be bad for your mental health. Be careful, don't go

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Speaker 1: into this blindfolded as a really really serious thing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you've got a psychology PhD. How can parents

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Speaker 2: reframe their perspective on these small, minor annoyances because it's

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Speaker 2: the kids, it's work stuff, it's school stuff, it's financial stuff,

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Speaker 2: and all those bits and pieces hanging over their heads

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move quickly because our time is running out,

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Speaker 1: and we spent a lot of time just talking about

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Speaker 1: this paradox. I'm going to give an example. Let's look

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Speaker 1: at kids that are being whining, because we've dealt with

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Speaker 1: that pretty consistently over the years. Most families will admit

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Speaker 1: that this comes up a lot, and the roadblocks whining

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Speaker 1: has been what's the word, quite durable lately, it's just

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Speaker 1: kept on guessing. So instead of seeing whining as defiance

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Speaker 1: or as a kid who isn't listening and who isn't

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Speaker 1: getting it? We can view it as a way of

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Speaker 1: communicating an unmet need, and a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 1: on old about it tomorrow you were so eloquent in

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Speaker 1: the way you did this. That need in our daughter's

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Speaker 1: case has very little to do with rogueblocks. It's about friends,

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Speaker 1: it's about social contact, and so this is an empathy opportunity.

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Speaker 1: It's just that we're so exhausted that we don't want

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Speaker 1: to be doing the empathy.

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Speaker 2: But that's it, isn't it. We're exhausted as parents. I

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Speaker 2: think across the board, everyone I speak to is in

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Speaker 2: the same boat. Even people that previously I've spoken to

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Speaker 2: are completely content with their lives are really feeling the

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Speaker 2: weight and pressure of life as we know it now.

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Speaker 2: It's really hard.

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Speaker 1: So let me go back to empathy. Okay, we've got

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Speaker 1: this behavior that is a bit annoying, and we just

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Speaker 1: let it go, let it go, let it go, let

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Speaker 1: it go, or alternatively, we crack, which doesn't do anything

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Speaker 1: for anybody. I actually want to focus on self regulation here.

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Speaker 1: Self regulation is vital, it's about intention, but it's also

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Speaker 1: taxing to be self regulated. That's a really big challenge.

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Speaker 1: The definition of self regulation or emotional regulation is suppressing

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Speaker 1: or expressing your emotions appropriately for the context, in harmony

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Speaker 1: with the values or goals. Okay, so if you blow up,

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Speaker 1: you're expressing yourself, but not necessarily. You've got a short

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Speaker 1: term goal. You want compliance, you want the kids to

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Speaker 1: just be quiet. But the long term goal is quite different,

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Speaker 1: and that is for our children to be able to

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Speaker 1: thrive and to do well here. So we've got to

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Speaker 1: have honest, empathic, clear conversations with our children because that's

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Speaker 1: going to get us to the long term goal. It's

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Speaker 1: the explore, explain, empower conversations. And we can only do

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Speaker 1: that if we're well regulated, if we're emotionally balanced, and

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Speaker 1: I reckon, I reckon that. If we can do that

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Speaker 1: model it, we're also going to be much more effective

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Speaker 1: at teaching kids the calming techniques they need, like taking

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Speaker 1: a deep breath or taking a break. That sort of

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Speaker 1: stuff will help as well. And then the region beata

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Speaker 1: paradox takes care of itself. Because people are better regulated,

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Speaker 1: people are functioning better, we don't seem to have the

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Speaker 1: same challenges.

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Speaker 2: So you're making this sound like it's very easy self

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Speaker 2: regulation when we've just acknowledged that we are feeling stressed, overwhelmed,

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Speaker 2: and exhausted. So we need to talk about self care

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Speaker 2: because parents can't be self regulated if they're not taking

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Speaker 2: care of their own emotional wellbeing.

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Speaker 1: Telling me ask you, I mean, I travel a lot.

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Speaker 1: I'm not here a lot. You're the one that's actually

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Speaker 1: in the heat of the furnace much more than I

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Speaker 1: am around this. What would you say about self care?

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Speaker 2: You have to be absolutely intentional, and I guess from

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Speaker 2: the outside looking in, you could even say you have

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Speaker 2: to be selfish with some time. I wouldn't call it

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Speaker 2: selfishness because I think it's imperative. But it's so easy

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Speaker 2: as a mum, and I think mum struggle with it

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Speaker 2: more than dads, no doubt. But it is so hard

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Speaker 2: to say I actually need to go for a walk

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Speaker 2: for half an hour, because there is a to do

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Speaker 2: list that is bigger than you're going to get through

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Speaker 2: in any given day anyway, and so the idea that

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Speaker 2: you would take a little bit of time out for

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Speaker 2: yourself feels like it's a cop out or it's a

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Speaker 2: waste of time compared to everything else that needs to happen,

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Speaker 2: and I'm watching it more and more with friends and

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Speaker 2: family who say I don't have time to connect with

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Speaker 2: my friends. That is probably one of the biggest self

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Speaker 2: care things that we can do as.

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Speaker 1: Women love it.

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Speaker 2: We need each other, we need community, but we spend

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Speaker 2: so much time being overwhelmed with our to do list

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Speaker 2: that we scrap that because it's not imperative to the

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Speaker 2: way our family functions. Okay, so i think we've got

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Speaker 2: it all wrong.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to wrap this up fairly quickly. Now

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Speaker 1: there's one more thing that I want to talk about,

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Speaker 1: but just on what you've highlighted with the whole self

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Speaker 1: care issue, you've tapped into something that's vital, and that

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Speaker 1: is the importance of quality relationships. Making sure that you

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Speaker 1: make time for other people. That's really at the heart

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Speaker 1: of it. And anything else that you choose to do

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Speaker 1: has to be rejuvenating, which would mean in ninety nine

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Speaker 1: point nine percent of cases, it should not involve your screen,

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Speaker 1: because your screen it depletes you, it de energizes you,

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Speaker 1: it takes you in exactly the opposite direction. And if

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Speaker 1: you have a good half an hour sit on the

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Speaker 1: couch staring at your screen, you very rarely, if ever,

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Speaker 1: jump to your feet and say, well, I feel so

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Speaker 1: much better now, I'm ready to go again. You kind

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Speaker 1: of just sit there and feel increasingly depleted. It really

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Speaker 1: does zapp your energy. So there are the two things

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Speaker 1: that I'd say, build those connections, find ways to connect

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Speaker 1: with other people, and stay off the screens. Now, like

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Speaker 1: I said, it's one more thing that I really want

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Speaker 1: to touch on. We are out of time, so I

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Speaker 1: have to go through it really fast. But I think

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Speaker 1: that it matters a great deal. And that's how parents

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Speaker 1: can differentiate between typical child behaviors and potential underlying issues

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Speaker 1: that require intervention. Okay, this region beata paradox. We're looking

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Speaker 1: at this stuff that's annoying, annoying, annoying, annoying. It's a

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Speaker 1: niggle and niggle, but we don't do anything about it

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Speaker 1: because and we've talked about it in terms of anxiety

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Speaker 1: in our family and also ADHD in our family. We

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Speaker 1: haven't touched on that, but in both instances there's been niggle, niggle, niggle,

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Speaker 1: nile niggle, and we've decided to put it off and

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Speaker 1: put it off and put it off. In two cases. Now,

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Speaker 1: with our kids, you have been the one that picked

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Speaker 1: up on it. I've acknowledged it, I've seen that it's there,

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Speaker 1: but I've had that it'll be right, we'll just deal

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Speaker 1: with it. I've had that approach, whereas you've had a

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Speaker 1: different approach. I've said it's below the threshold, we're handling it.

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Speaker 1: You've stepped in and your mama spidy senses have kicked

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Speaker 1: into the point where you've essentially convinced me to take

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Speaker 1: it more seriously, and you've been right both times. So

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Speaker 1: what I would say is this, as a parent, when

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with these region be the issues and you're

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Speaker 1: concerned that it might be something else. Consider the frequency,

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Speaker 1: consider the intensity, consider the duration of the behaviors that

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Speaker 1: are drip dripping, and if it's persistent, if it's causing

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Speaker 1: significant distress, or if it's interfering with function and daily life,

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Speaker 1: it is worth exploring it with a professional. You will

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Speaker 1: get better guidance than doing what I did and saying

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Speaker 1: it'll be right.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing that's really important. One of

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Speaker 2: our children has had a significant health challenge for many years.

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Speaker 2: But I would go to the doctor regularly and tell

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Speaker 2: them that this was not right. What was happening with

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Speaker 2: her was not normal, and we would do all of

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Speaker 2: the tests and they would all come back clear. And

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Speaker 2: I did that for what ten years, at least about

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Speaker 2: ten years, because every twelve months I'd go, we can't

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Speaker 2: keep going like this, yep.

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Speaker 1: And it's a great example of a region Beata paradix.

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Speaker 2: I think that again, you just have to trust your

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Speaker 2: gut on their stuff and keep pushing through onto you

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Speaker 2: find the answers.

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Speaker 1: Well, that also highlights another reality, and that is that

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Speaker 1: it might be above your threshold. But then you go

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Speaker 1: and see a medical practition or a mental health practitioner

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Speaker 1: and they say, oh, this is the minor niggle for them.

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Speaker 1: It's a region beta issue, and you're going, but this

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Speaker 1: has been minor nickel for ten years now. It needs surgery.

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Speaker 1: If I had a minor niggle in my knee for

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Speaker 1: ten years, I would go and get something done about it.

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Speaker 1: So deal with the nickels, get on top of them.

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Speaker 1: It matters. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 1: Roland for Bridge Media. For more on making a family

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Speaker 1: happier and working on that self regulation, check out our

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Speaker 1: social pages on Facebook and Instagram, or visit us at

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Speaker 1: Happy families, dot com, dot au,