WEBVTT - Are young Australians the ‘lonely generation’?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this this is the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Daily OS. Oh now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty second of February.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Zara, I'm Emma on today's podcast. Young Australians are

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<v Speaker 2>more likely to experience loneliness and psychological distress than any

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<v Speaker 2>other age group. That's according to the latest Kilda report,

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<v Speaker 2>and that stands for household income and labor dynamics in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>For twenty years, Hilda has been interviewing the same network

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<v Speaker 2>of seventeen thousand Australians every year to compile results to

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<v Speaker 2>give us comprehensive insight into the lives of Australians. So

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<v Speaker 2>to help us understand more about what the latest findings

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<v Speaker 2>tell us about young Aussies, I'm talking to one of

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<v Speaker 2>the experts behind the data in today's deep dive. But first, Zara,

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<v Speaker 2>what's making headlines today.

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<v Speaker 1>Wages in Australia increase by four point two percent in

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<v Speaker 1>the year to December twenty twenty three, according to the

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<v Speaker 1>latest data from the ABS. It's the highest wage figure

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<v Speaker 1>since March two thousand and nine. Workers in the healthcare

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<v Speaker 1>industry saw the biggest increase in wages, while growth was

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<v Speaker 1>slower over the year in sectors like finance and insurance.

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<v Speaker 1>The four point two percent increase means rising wages slightly

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<v Speaker 1>outpaced rising prices for December, with inflation at four point

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<v Speaker 1>one percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Environment Minister Tanya plibisec has repeated threats to regulate fast fashion.

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<v Speaker 2>In a speech this week, Plibisec reaffirmed the government's commitment

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<v Speaker 2>to the proposed Seamless initiative, which hopes to improve clothing

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<v Speaker 2>recycling and would be funded by a four percent levy

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<v Speaker 2>on garments sald. Plibisek said that if retailers don't change

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<v Speaker 2>their practices, the government will intervene. The minister said it's

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<v Speaker 2>the responsibility of government and the fashion industry to examine

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<v Speaker 2>how to boost sustainability practices and extend the lifespan of clothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Thousands of junior doctors in South Korea have quit their

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<v Speaker 1>jobs in protest against plans to increase medical school student numbers.

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<v Speaker 1>The South Korean government proposed the measure to address a

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<v Speaker 1>doctor shortage in the country, but doctors have argued the

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<v Speaker 1>boosting medical school admissions will compromise the quality of South

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<v Speaker 1>Korea's medical education and services. Mass walk offs have stretched

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<v Speaker 1>the country's health system, with patients being transferred between hospitals

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<v Speaker 1>to accommodate surgery schedules.

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<v Speaker 2>And today's good news, rooftop solar panels are expected to

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<v Speaker 2>generate enough power for twenty million homes by twenty fifty four.

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<v Speaker 2>According to new data. Research from Green Energy Markets predicts

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<v Speaker 2>that over the next thirty years, sola will produce enough

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<v Speaker 2>energy to meet one hundred percent of the current demand

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<v Speaker 2>on the grid. In the past decade, rooftop solar panel

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<v Speaker 2>installation has increased by three hundred and eighty percent.

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<v Speaker 1>The latest findings from the Hilda Survey were published this

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<v Speaker 1>month and they reveal some interesting and concerning trends when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to the well being of young people. Emma,

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<v Speaker 1>we often hear very interesting research and findings discussed in

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<v Speaker 1>the media, So why did you want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>this one specifically?

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, So I wanted to shine a light on

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<v Speaker 2>this one study in particular because it's pretty unique. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if the average person necessarily realizes, but when

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<v Speaker 2>you hear about a study in the media, you could

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<v Speaker 2>be talking about a sample size of one hundred or

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred or a few hundred people. The Hilda Survey

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<v Speaker 2>works with seventeen thousand respondents to provide I this picture

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<v Speaker 2>of what's going on in the lives of Aussie's by

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<v Speaker 2>asking those same people every year and their networks about

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<v Speaker 2>things like their finances, family and social life, and their

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<v Speaker 2>physical and mental health. But I thought we might need

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<v Speaker 2>to bring in one of the experts on this one.

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<v Speaker 2>So you are about to hear my conversation with Professor

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<v Speaker 2>Roger Wilkins. He's co director of the Hilda Survey project

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<v Speaker 2>and Deputy director of the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic

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<v Speaker 2>and Social Research, and he joins us, now we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>today about the Hilda Survey. But to start off with,

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<v Speaker 2>for those of us maybe less familiar with the survey

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<v Speaker 2>and what it's all about, can you give me a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of how it works, because it's quite a remarkable scope,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So HILDA stands for the Household Income and Labor Dynamics

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia study. So we started back in two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and one and randomly selected thirteen thousand people from around

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<v Speaker 3>the country and interviewed them, and then we've been going

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<v Speaker 3>back to them every year ever since, so the last

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<v Speaker 3>we're in our twenty fourth year of doing this now

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<v Speaker 3>and asking them about all aspects of life in Australia,

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<v Speaker 3>really the household and family life, their health and well being,

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<v Speaker 3>their employment, their incomes, their wealth. The other thing though,

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<v Speaker 3>we do is that we follow the children of the

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<v Speaker 3>original response. If they have any children, we start following them,

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<v Speaker 3>and then we'll follow their children. So you really get

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<v Speaker 3>the Hilda gene when you're selected into our sample and

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<v Speaker 3>you pass it on to your kids, and hopefully if

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<v Speaker 3>Hilda is still going in one hundred years time, we'll

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<v Speaker 3>have this extraordinarily rich intergenerational history for Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the ask of that sample size? How much do

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<v Speaker 2>they have to communicate? How in depth is the survey

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<v Speaker 2>we have we call.

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<v Speaker 3>A household questionnaire, where that's usually around about ten minutes.

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<v Speaker 3>It's asked of one household member, and then everyone over

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<v Speaker 3>fifteen years of age is interviewed for about thirty five

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<v Speaker 3>forty minute and then they have a what we call

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<v Speaker 3>a self completion questionnaire, which can be either pen and

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<v Speaker 3>paper or they can do that online, and that usually

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<v Speaker 3>takes at least half an hour as well, and so

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<v Speaker 3>that's an annual event, a bit like doing your taxes.

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<v Speaker 3>It just comes around every year. And I think a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of people they recognize the importance of the study

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<v Speaker 3>and that each of them represent twelve hundred other people

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<v Speaker 3>living in Australia, and I think a lot of people

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<v Speaker 3>just do it out of a sense of a civic duty.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to think it's probably a lot less arduous

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<v Speaker 2>than tax time. I think you're cutting yourself short of it. Then,

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the latest findings, we've had a report

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<v Speaker 2>out this month. What were the big standouts from the

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<v Speaker 2>latest survey.

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<v Speaker 3>Probably the most concerning thing to come out of the

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<v Speaker 3>study is the rise in a measure of what we

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<v Speaker 3>call psychological distress, where you are feeling hopeless or worthless

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<v Speaker 3>or depressed, those sorts of things. And on this measure,

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<v Speaker 3>we've seen a real substantial rise since around about twenty eleven,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's been particularly concentrated amongst teenagers and people in

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<v Speaker 3>their early twenties, where we've had more than a doubling

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<v Speaker 3>of the prevalence. We've now got about forty percent of

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<v Speaker 3>people in the fifteen to twenty four age range that

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<v Speaker 3>are in psychological distress. All this rise has happened since

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<v Speaker 3>twenty eleven. It did accelerate a bit during COVID, which

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<v Speaker 3>is perhaps unsurprising. Wasn't a great time to be a

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<v Speaker 3>young person in Australia during the first couple of years

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<v Speaker 3>of lockdowns and restrictions on travel and the like. But

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<v Speaker 3>it's a longer running trend than that, and we don't

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<v Speaker 3>exactly know why it's growing. But I think you'd have

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<v Speaker 3>to say social media would be pretty strongly implicated, because

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<v Speaker 3>it's the rise in social media use really correlates very

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<v Speaker 3>closely with this rise in psychological distress, and we also

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<v Speaker 3>see that the groups who have the biggest increases in

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<v Speaker 3>psychological distress prevalence are also the ones that had the

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<v Speaker 3>biggest increase in social media use.

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<v Speaker 2>To ask you about another prevalent issue for young people, loneliness.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a conversation we've been having more and more, especially

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<v Speaker 2>on the other side of COVID. What did the survey

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<v Speaker 2>learn about young people and loneliness most recently?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So traditionally he would have had shown that it

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<v Speaker 3>was older people who were tended to be more lonely,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's sort of consistent with particularly single older people

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<v Speaker 3>who maybe their partner has died, they're a widow or widower.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we've actually seen over the last twenty plus

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<v Speaker 3>years is decline in loneliness amongst older people in the community,

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<v Speaker 3>which is obviously a heartening development. But again encountering that

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<v Speaker 3>is we've actually seen it going up amongst young people.

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<v Speaker 3>It was only edging up slowly up until COVID hit,

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<v Speaker 3>but then in the first two years of the pandemic

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<v Speaker 3>it shot up dramatically for fifteen to twenty four year

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<v Speaker 3>olds and not really much for other age groups. I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's speaks a lot to the fact that the

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<v Speaker 3>pandemic and the restrictions that a company have had a

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<v Speaker 3>lot more adverse impacts on young people than they did

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<v Speaker 3>on older people. I think that's because their social interaction

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<v Speaker 3>is much more outside of the home than it is

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<v Speaker 3>for other people. Particularly if you're living with a partner,

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<v Speaker 3>Much of your social interaction is with your partner, and

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<v Speaker 3>so lockdowns and restrictions on travel and so on didn't

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<v Speaker 3>interfere with that, whereas for people in their late teens

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<v Speaker 3>and early twenties, the restrictions were much more punitive.

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you think that younger group hasn't been able

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<v Speaker 2>to bounce back in this area, perhaps as other age

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<v Speaker 2>groups have on the other side of COVID.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a concern that they may not have rebounded

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<v Speaker 3>as quickly. And I guess because those formative links social

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<v Speaker 3>networks perhaps got broken during COVID, you know, they got

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<v Speaker 3>seven or they didn't form during COVID, and that could

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<v Speaker 3>have permanent, sort of scarring type effects on the social

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<v Speaker 3>lives of many young people. Obviously not all young people,

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<v Speaker 3>but perhaps a significant number of them. And that would

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<v Speaker 3>be the fear. I suppose that you could get this

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<v Speaker 3>long tail of adverse effects.

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<v Speaker 2>Speaking of young people and newer phenomenons. We had vaping data,

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<v Speaker 2>I think for the first time in this Hilda report.

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<v Speaker 2>What did you learn about the use of vapes?

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<v Speaker 3>Unsurprisingly that vape use is quite highly prevalent in the community,

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<v Speaker 3>at least prior to the beginning of this year. The

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<v Speaker 3>government moved to ban vapes other than via a medical prescription.

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<v Speaker 3>This data relates to the period before that legislation was passed.

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<v Speaker 3>It's mostly an activity associated with young people, so I

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<v Speaker 3>think we're sort of around a third of young people

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<v Speaker 3>have at least tried vaping. It sort of suggests that

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps the progress we thought we'd made on reducing nicotine

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<v Speaker 3>dependence in the form of smoking has been a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit undone by the rise of vaping. Cost has probably

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<v Speaker 3>been a big fator. I think it's a lot cheaper,

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<v Speaker 3>or at least it was a lot cheaper to vape

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<v Speaker 3>than it was to smoke, and it's not as smelly

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<v Speaker 3>as either, so that might also be an attractive feature

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<v Speaker 3>for many people.

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<v Speaker 2>What about financial stability security? What did this latest report

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<v Speaker 2>tell us about money and young people? You know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>hearing over and over again about the growing pressures of

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<v Speaker 2>cost of living. Everyone's feeling it. What did we learn

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<v Speaker 2>this time around.

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<v Speaker 3>We've seen I guess there's something of a continuation of

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<v Speaker 3>a trend where more and more young adults are staying

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<v Speaker 3>living with the parents, and I think that is very

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<v Speaker 3>much driven by cost of living consideration and a particularly

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<v Speaker 3>difficulty in getting into the housing market. But also it

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<v Speaker 3>is taking longer to get established in your career. So

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<v Speaker 3>many people eventually get into full time work and get

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<v Speaker 3>on the career ladder, but it's taking longer. They're spending

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<v Speaker 3>more time working casual jobs or jumping from fixed term

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<v Speaker 3>contract to fixed term contract. And so on, so that

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<v Speaker 3>causing people to I think, stay in the family home longer.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a little bit gloomy for young people and

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<v Speaker 3>that we're used to it, that it's taken longer. But

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<v Speaker 3>there is a positive dimension to this as well, and

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<v Speaker 3>that to some extent there maybe isn't the same pressure

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<v Speaker 3>to get on with it as quickly as it once was.

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<v Speaker 3>That young people are saying, well, we've got you know,

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<v Speaker 3>our life expectancy is longer than ever. People are retiring

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<v Speaker 3>later than ever. Maybe I'll just enjoy my younger years

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<v Speaker 3>a bit more before I get down to the serious

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<v Speaker 3>business of adulting, forming a family and buying a home

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<v Speaker 3>and getting full time work.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people will feel probably reassured

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<v Speaker 2>by this notion that there is an increase in young

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<v Speaker 2>people living at home for longer. I think since COVID,

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<v Speaker 2>people have maybe carried a bit of shame around something

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<v Speaker 2>like that. So I suppose talking about it, or seeing

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<v Speaker 2>that reflected in these numbers will probably ease a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people that might be feeling maybe a little insecure

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<v Speaker 2>about admitting to their friends that they've gone back to

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<v Speaker 2>mom and dads.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right. I think that can really help with people's

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<v Speaker 3>ability to cope with the adversity that they've been through,

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<v Speaker 3>just to know that others are in the same boat. Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>One last question I wanted to ask you, Roger, is

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<v Speaker 2>about decline in marriages, but an increase in de facto relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>What does that mean? What is a de facto relationship

0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 2>and what do we know about the rate of marriage?

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, I mean often it's called de facto marriage.

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.959
<v Speaker 3>What it means is that you're living together with a partner,

0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.440
<v Speaker 3>but you're not legally married. In the eyes of the law,

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.800
<v Speaker 3>you're basically treated as equivalent to legally married. And yes,

0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.439
<v Speaker 3>as you said, we've had the last twenty plus years,

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.719
<v Speaker 3>we've had a decline in the proportion of adults who

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 3>are legally married. It's gone down from about fifty six

0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 3>percent or about fifty percent over twenty years. Marriage is

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.840
<v Speaker 3>still really popular, but that's still an appreciable decline. But

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't mean we're partnering less or living with partners

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 3>any less. It's just that we've had this rise in

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 3>de facto couples. And I think there's a few things

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 3>that work there. I think, firstly, just going to what

0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 3>I was saying before about doing things later. There's a

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 3>lot of people in their twenties now in de facto relationships,

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.760
<v Speaker 3>so twenty years ago would have been legally married, and

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 3>a lot of those people in those de facto couples

0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 3>will eventually get married. I'll just do it later, they'll

0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 3>do it in their thirties. But we are seeing a

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 3>rise in de facto couples at all ages. So I

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 3>think there's also a social change here that it used

0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 3>to be consocially unacceptable in many circles, at least to

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 3>be living with a partner out of wedlock, and certainly

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 3>to have children out of wedlock was frowned upon, and

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 3>I think that we've got past that to a considerable extent.

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 3>There's often a lot of expense in getting married. There's

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 3>a lot of pressure if you're going to get married,

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 3>to have a big wedding, and people might say, well,

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 3>we don't really need that piece of paper, and I

0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 3>think we can do something better with that money than

0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 3>pour it into a wedding, like you know, help get

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 3>a depositor on a house, for example. In this age

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 3>of Instagram and so on, there's possibly even greater pressure

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 3>to do a wedding in style, which makes it instagrammable,

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 3>and that then increases the expense of it and makes

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 3>it even less an attractive proposition. So I think all

0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 3>those sorts of things are going on. I don't know

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 3>how much to attribute to each of those factors, but

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 3>I think they're all playing a role.

0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 2>It hazard a guess that there may even be a

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 2>fair chunk of traumatized children of divorce who are taking

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 2>their time in that department.

0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Yes. Yeah, although the big rise in divorce was actually

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 3>in the seventies, you know, following the introduction of no

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 3>fault divorce, we're actually seeing that once people do get married,

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 3>the rate of divorce is declining amongst them, and even

0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 3>in de facto couples, we've seen a decline in the

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 3>breakdown of those relationships over the last twenty years. So yes,

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 3>people have maybe being a bit more cautious in the

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 3>relationships they get into that is having the benefit of

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 3>those relationship're tending to be more stable.

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Now, Roger, casting your mind forward based on the trends

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 2>that you've seen this year, do you have any hot

0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.040
<v Speaker 2>predictions for us for next year, anything that you're keeping

0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>an eye on. What are the data lovers, saying.

0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Look, I think we're all hanging out to see just

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 3>how much this cost of living crisis, how it's playing out,

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 3>and how people have responded and dealt with that. We

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 3>don't really have the data in yet for the full

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.560
<v Speaker 3>impacts of the rise in rents, rise in the cost

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 3>of just about everything. I think that's the thing that

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 3>I'm most keen to unpeel how has that been played

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 3>out in all the different families across Australia.

0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for your time. That was fascinating.

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 3>Nice to be with you.

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining us on the Daily OS today.

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.280
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