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Speaker 1: Now, as we mentioned earlier, we know that the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory AKAC Commissioner has released a report. It was tabled

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Speaker 1: in Parliament overnight. The report has made, as I understand,

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Speaker 1: no adverse findings, so it's basically no adverse findings and

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Speaker 1: said that he would hand down another report relating to

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Speaker 1: the political activities in the Chief Minister's office during the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty election by the thirtieth of June. But we've

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Speaker 1: really been asking the question this morning. I mean, does

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Speaker 1: it pass the pub test that we know that in

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Speaker 1: the leading to the twenty twenty election, members of staff

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Speaker 1: of the Office of the Chief Minister, as well as

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister and in some cases family members had

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Speaker 1: traveled to Nayu on the fourteenth of August, Galliwinku on

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth of August, and what air on the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: of August out to those remote communities on polling days

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Speaker 1: they say or the Chief Minister of the day, Michael Gunner,

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Speaker 1: had said that the purpose of that attendance at those

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Speaker 1: locations was said to be for community engaged. But you know,

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Speaker 1: let's be really blunt about this. It's on the taxpayer's dime.

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Speaker 1: During caretaker mode. So does it pass the pub test?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would suggest not joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line right now is the Independent member for our lun

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Robin, Good morning Katie, Robin.

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Speaker 1: Does it pass the pub test?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie, This is fascical. You know, all those

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Speaker 2: three Aboriginal communities that Gunna went to during the caretaker

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Speaker 2: period on chartered planes paid for by you, the territory taxpayer,

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Speaker 2: they were all marginal feats too, So this is no

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Speaker 2: coincidence there. There's no such thing as a coincidence in politics,

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Speaker 2: and you're right during the caretaker period you don't. Ministers

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Speaker 2: are restricted, absolutely restricted in what they do to essential work.

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Speaker 2: Only community engagement, I'm afraid doesn't fit that criteria. So

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Speaker 2: even in the IKAK Commissioner's report that was tabled in

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Speaker 2: Parliament last night lines all the evidence or a lot

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Speaker 2: of the evidence that absolutely suggests and proves that what

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Speaker 2: Gunner did was wrong. Yes, he makes no determination. This

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Speaker 2: is a two and a half year wait for a

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Speaker 2: report that makes no determination. In fact, it says I

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Speaker 2: have not made any findings in respective, mister Gunner. So

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Speaker 2: two and a half years for nothing, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Robin, should there be rules in place, and tighter rules

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Speaker 1: in place where parties cannot use taxpayer funds to travel

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Speaker 1: or the government of the day cannot use taxpayer funds

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Speaker 1: to travel to remote communities or any you know, like

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Speaker 1: to take any kind of travel during campaigning.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course there should be, and a part of

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Speaker 2: this report he makes seven recommendations pretty much to that effect,

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Speaker 2: calling on the goodwill of ministers and members of Parliament

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Speaker 2: and their staff to provide greater transparency and accountability about

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Speaker 2: exactly what they do and the resources they use sixty

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Speaker 2: days out from the next election, which is good advice,

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Speaker 2: but there's no compulsion for any of us to do it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's not a part of any sort

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Speaker 2: of mandated or legal requirement. Look, Katie, this is an

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Speaker 2: integrity issue again. We're talking about misconduct. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: probably corruption using public money to benefit the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: Labor Party. That's what this story is about. He's been

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Speaker 2: caught out. The KAK Commissioner has, as I said before,

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Speaker 2: included in this report all the evidence that absolutely points

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Speaker 2: to the fact that Gunner was in the wrong. In fact,

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Speaker 2: i'll quote the IKA confirmed these trips were quote planned

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Speaker 2: to coincide with the opening of remote polling boosts. There's

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Speaker 2: all this evidence within the report that directly points the

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Speaker 2: finger at Gunner and his staff for misusing public fund

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Speaker 2: and yet the Commissioner decides there will be no determination,

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Speaker 2: no findings against the Chief Minister. Work that out, Katie,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense and to be honest, it is

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Speaker 2: very disappointing. I think that it brings in to question

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Speaker 2: why do we have an eyekac at all?

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Speaker 1: Robin. I know that Michael Gunner has issued a statement

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Speaker 1: to other media outlets. He hasn't sent one to me,

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Speaker 1: but it does in this statement that other media outlets

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Speaker 1: are running, he said. The report tabled in the Parliament

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Speaker 1: makes no adverse findings. It does include recommendations to give

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Speaker 1: greater clarity around how travel and engagement with territorians, especially

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Speaker 1: in remote areas, should occur. Direct engagement is essential in

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Speaker 1: a healthy democracy. This is a constant challenge in the

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Speaker 1: territory and we are home to the most vulnerable people

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Speaker 1: in Australia living in the most remote locations. They deserve

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Speaker 1: to be heard just like everyone else, he said. While

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Speaker 1: discussion and debate about these recommendations is best left to

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Speaker 1: serving parliamentarians. I do agree that greater clarity around guidelines

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Speaker 1: is a good thing. I wish the Parliament all the

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Speaker 1: best as they consider and implement reforms for the future.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: Oh, completely offensive, He's lying through his teeth. Look, Katie,

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Speaker 2: this guy, in the lead up to the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: election had been a member of the Legislative Assembly, a politician,

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Speaker 2: a member of Parliament for twelve years, four of those

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Speaker 2: he was the Chief Minister. He knows right from wrong,

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Speaker 2: you know. A part of this report, the commissioner goes

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Speaker 2: on about the distinction between political activity and public or

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Speaker 2: official duties, and the fact that there's some sort of

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Speaker 2: misunderstanding or lack of clarity around the difference between the two.

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Speaker 2: What a load of rubbish. I mean, Gunner twelve years

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Speaker 2: as a member of Parliament, multiple campaigns he's been involved in.

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Speaker 2: The commissioners giving him the benefit of the doubt, saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: poor Michael Gunner might not have realized that turning up

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Speaker 2: to a polling booth in the middle in an Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: community on polling day isn't official duty, particularly during the

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Speaker 2: caretaker period. That's called political activity. Look, this is a

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Speaker 2: fast Katie. It's so disappointing. It's such a waste of

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Speaker 2: time that we've waited for this report to come about.

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Speaker 2: I would even go as far to suggest that the

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Speaker 2: ik Commissioner has taken his time to work out how

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Speaker 2: he can get out of actually pointing the finger and

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Speaker 2: holding Gunner to account. He's nervous, he's reticent. He's reluctant

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Speaker 2: to hold this former chief minister to account for what

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Speaker 2: is misappropriation. I believe of taxpayers funds used for the

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Speaker 2: Labor Party to campaign in Whateir and go Galliwinku and

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Speaker 2: the other community.

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Speaker 1: Well, you would hope not, you would hope not. On

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Speaker 1: the Ikak Commissioner's partner, I know he's got this second

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Speaker 1: round of you know, like the second report to come out,

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Speaker 1: So I guess there's still the opportunity for there to

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Speaker 1: be sort of further recommendations. I'm assuming Robin in that second.

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Speaker 2: Report, Katie, that second report, we'll only go to the

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Speaker 2: current Chief Minister in June, so we may never see

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Speaker 2: the content of that report. In fact, he gives an

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Speaker 2: extensive rationale for why he's decided to give it only

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Speaker 2: to the current Labor Chief Minister of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: and no one else. So look, I just feel completely

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Speaker 2: demoralized and disappointed by this. I know it's a difficult

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Speaker 2: job he has. I know that he's probably done his best.

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Speaker 2: It's an extensive report, it's complicated, it's contentious, it's controversial,

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Speaker 2: but the AKAK is there to identify misconduct, mismanagement and corruption.

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Speaker 2: It is there to help us to provide good governance

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Speaker 2: to the Northern Territory, and I believed, I believe IKAK

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Speaker 2: has failed yet again, Robin.

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Speaker 1: In terms of where to from here, there is obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, not in the current not with the current

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Speaker 1: parliamentary makeup. By the look of it, we're probably going

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Speaker 1: to have to wait, I'm assuming now until after the

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Speaker 1: next election. But is there is there, you know, different

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Speaker 1: things that we can actually do to ensure that this

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen again. Could there be more rules put in place,

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Speaker 1: more stringent processes to ensure that this doesn't happen again,

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Speaker 1: that taxpayers money is not used for any kind of

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Speaker 1: flights during that campaign period.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course, you know, we could legislate the recommendations

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Speaker 2: that he's put in his report and that's probably a

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Speaker 2: good thing, but we will not be able to do

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Speaker 2: that before the twenty twenty four election unless we recall

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Speaker 2: Parliament and have a lengthy debate and legislation put before

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Speaker 2: the Parliament. Look, this is a good will issue, it's

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Speaker 2: an integrity issue. If you can't trust your Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: government ministers not to do this, then please don't vote

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Speaker 2: for them again because this is wrong. As you say,

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't have to legislate at this point to stop

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Speaker 2: ministers like the former Chief Minister Michael Gunner doing this

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Speaker 2: and his staff who should have known better, who did

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Speaker 2: know better, but chose to put their own political interests

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Speaker 2: above what is right for the Northern Territory. It's just

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Speaker 2: such a perfect case of what I believe, what I

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Speaker 2: allege is misconduct at the very least, in corruption at

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Speaker 2: the worst.

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Speaker 1: Well, Robin Lanley, I really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: I've no doubt it's going to be a fir in

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Speaker 1: the interesting day in Parliament. I would hope that this

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Speaker 1: is really you know that it is going to continue

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Speaker 1: to be focused on. We're eleven billion dollars in debt

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Speaker 1: and I know that we weren't at the time of

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Speaker 1: these flights. But gee whiz, there's some money being wasted.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing that should be happening is money

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Speaker 1: being wasted in the lead into an election on what

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Speaker 1: many would see as as Paul.

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Speaker 2: Barreling Well Katie the Northern Territory Labor Party. Now, oh,

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Speaker 2: the people of the Northern Territory around forty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: for the charter flights that they use to attend the

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Speaker 2: polling booths at these three Aboriginal communities back in August

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Will you ever see that money repaid? Not

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Speaker 2: on your life? And the Aikak Commissioner had a perfect

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Speaker 2: opportunity to call it out and make them do the

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Speaker 2: right thing, and he squandered that. And I really don't

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Speaker 2: understand why. So I'm calling on the next Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: of the Northern Territory. I won't bother doing it now

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Speaker 2: because it would be a complete waste of time to

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Speaker 2: undertake an inquiry into Kak. It needs to be restructured,

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Speaker 2: it needs the business of ik needs to be done differently.

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Speaker 2: I think we've got enough evidence now to say that

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Speaker 2: it's a flop, it's failed, It's not working the way

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Speaker 2: it should to maintained integrity and good governance of the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory, and we need to find a better way

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Speaker 2: of doing it well.

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you