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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Friday,

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Speaker 3: the fifteenth of March. I'm billy, I'm emma. Now you

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Speaker 3: may have heard some headlines that TikTok is about to

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Speaker 3: be banned in the US.

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Speaker 2: TikTok influencers beware.

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Speaker 3: Today a House committee voted on a bipartisan bill that

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Speaker 3: could effectively ban the app.

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Speaker 2: TikTok's future is hanging in the balance.

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Speaker 3: There are a few steps that need to happen before

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Speaker 3: TikTok ban does occur, but it is a real possibility

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Speaker 3: after the US House of Representatives passed a bill this

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Speaker 3: week that would force the owner of TikTok to either

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Speaker 3: sell the app or let it be banned in the US.

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Speaker 3: As you can imagine, that is some huge news and

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Speaker 3: we will explain everything you need to know, including if

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Speaker 3: Australia is looking at a similar in today's deep dive.

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Speaker 3: But first, Emma, what's making headlines.

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Speaker 4: More details about the racism allegation against Matilda's captain Sam

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Speaker 4: Kerr have been released in UK court documents. According to

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Speaker 4: the documents, the soccer player was arrested and detained in

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Speaker 4: a police cell after an incident with a London police

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Speaker 4: officer in January last year. Kerr pleaded not guilty to

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Speaker 4: a public disorder charge earlier this month. Her lawyers have

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Speaker 4: now lodged a request to see security footage from the

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Speaker 4: night of her arrest, including bodycam footage from officers and

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Speaker 4: CCTV of Kerr's police interview. A four day trial is

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Speaker 4: scheduled for February twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: The New South Wales government is planning to double the

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Speaker 3: penalty for asbestos breaches after the toxic material was found

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Speaker 3: in dozens of parks and schools. As Bestos has now

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Speaker 3: been found in malt across New South Wales, as well

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Speaker 3: as in soil samples in Queensland. Those new regulations from

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Speaker 3: the Environmental Protection Authority will double the maximum fine for

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Speaker 3: as bestos related offenses to four million dollars for companies

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Speaker 3: or one million dollars for individuals. New South Wales Environment

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Speaker 3: Minister Penny Sharp said these reforms will quote improve the

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Speaker 3: protection of human health, the environment and the community if

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Speaker 3: they pass parliament.

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Speaker 4: The Danish government has announced it will begin conscripting women

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Speaker 4: for its military. Its neighbors Norway and Sweden began conscripting

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Speaker 4: women in twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen, respectively. Now women

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Speaker 4: in Denmark will be issued mandatory service notices too. Women

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Speaker 4: currently make up around twenty five percent of the Danish military.

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Speaker 4: Its defense minister said more robust conscription, including full gender equality,

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Speaker 4: would contribute to its defense challenges and targets. Denmark is

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Speaker 4: a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization or NATO,

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Speaker 4: meaning it's obliged to defend any member states like the US,

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Speaker 4: France or the UK if they come under attack by

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Speaker 4: foreign forces.

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Speaker 3: And today's good news, more than one hundred new species

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Speaker 3: have been discovered off the southeast coast of New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: Researchers spent three weeks collecting thousands of samples from as

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Speaker 3: deep as four point eight kilometers under water near an

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Speaker 3: area of New Zealand called the Bounty Trough. The team

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Speaker 3: on board the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research

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Speaker 3: vessel identified new fish, snail, coral, and sea cucumber species

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Speaker 3: from the ocean floor. A team of experts, including Australian scientists,

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Speaker 3: are now working to confirm the discoveries.

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Speaker 4: So Billy today we're talking about TikTok, and as you

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Speaker 4: mentioned at the top of the episode, the US House

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Speaker 4: of Representatives has passed a bill that could force TikTok's

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Speaker 4: parent company they're based in China, to sell the app

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Speaker 4: or face being banned entirely in the US.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure most of.

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Speaker 4: Our audience is pretty familiar with TikTok, but can you

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Speaker 4: give us a bit of an overview who owns it?

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Speaker 4: What's the important detail here that we need.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if the audience is like me, they need no

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Speaker 3: introduction to TikTok. I spent way too many hours scrolling

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Speaker 3: that app. But like you said, a lot of people

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Speaker 3: might not know about the owner of TikTok. So TikTok

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Speaker 3: is owned by a Chinese company called Byte Dance, And

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Speaker 3: for years there have been concerns from several countries, including Australia,

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Speaker 3: that data from TikTok is potentially being shared with the

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Speaker 3: Chinese government, and specifically the concern is that it could

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Speaker 3: be a risk to national security. Like I said, these

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Speaker 3: concerns have been going on for years, and so TikTok

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Speaker 3: of course has responded previously. Last year, actually, the TikTok

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Speaker 3: CEO shows z Shoe addressed these concerns during a US

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Speaker 3: committee hearing, saying, quote, TikTok has never shared or received

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Speaker 3: a request to share us use the data with the

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Speaker 3: Chinese government, nor would TikTok on such a request if

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Speaker 3: one were ever made, So they're pretty much outright denying it.

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Speaker 3: He's a bit more of what he said.

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Speaker 1: Bi Dance is not owned or controlled by the Chinese government.

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Speaker 1: It's a private company. Sixty percent of the company is

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Speaker 1: owned by global institutional investors, twenty percent is owned by

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Speaker 1: the founder, and twenty percent owned by employees around the world.

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Speaker 1: BI Dances five board members, three of them are American. Now,

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Speaker 1: TikTok itself is not available in inland China. We're headquartered

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles and in Singapore.

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Speaker 3: And that hearing last year was quite fisty at times,

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Speaker 3: with the people in Congress being so certain that these

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Speaker 3: concerns are really valid and the CEO saying they're not.

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Speaker 1: How can you promise that that will move.

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Speaker 3: Into the United States of American be protected here?

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Speaker 1: Cokuzumann, I have seen no evidence that the Chinese government

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Speaker 1: has access to their data. They have never asked us.

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Speaker 1: We have not provided well in a way I've asked

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Speaker 1: that that I find that actually preposterous.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe we should touch on as well kind

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Speaker 4: of what the lay of the land is when it

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Speaker 4: comes to diplomatic tensions or the relationship between China and

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Speaker 4: Western countries. One of the reasons there is so much

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Speaker 4: concern over this idea of national security, and we'll get

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Speaker 4: to this later, but we have seen a bit of

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Speaker 4: that echoed here in Australia has to do with the

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Speaker 4: power and dominance of China and its leadership. So the

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Speaker 4: Chinese Communist Party rules China. It is a communist state,

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Speaker 4: but businesses like ByteDance can function independently in China and

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Speaker 4: around the world. However, because of that influence of the

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Speaker 4: Chinese government, it's really hard to know how much a

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Speaker 4: business that is Chinese owned and run has independence versus

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Speaker 4: how much interference there is or pressure there can be

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Speaker 4: from the government.

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Speaker 2: A lot that is not known.

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Speaker 4: But the fact that we can't definitively say whether or

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Speaker 4: not the Chinese government could access data owned by TikTok

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Speaker 4: is what initially created this concern in the first place.

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Speaker 4: At the sort of advent of TikTok becoming what it

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Speaker 4: became exactly.

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Speaker 3: And another thing to point out is that it is

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Speaker 3: not news to anyone. I'm sure that there is a

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Speaker 3: lot of tension between China and America also Australia, but

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Speaker 3: let's just focus on China and the US. There is

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Speaker 3: a lot of tension between those two countries, and this

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Speaker 3: is just one way that that tension is manifesting, and

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Speaker 3: also one other thing for context, and then we'll get

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Speaker 3: on to what the actual news is today. But there

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Speaker 3: are about one hundred and seventy million users in the

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Speaker 3: US alone. That's roughly half of its population. It's absolutely massive.

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Speaker 4: Those numbers are incredible. So we know what happened in

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Speaker 4: March last year. We've heard from the CEO of TikTok

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Speaker 4: himself and how he addressed US leaders. That was pretty

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Speaker 4: much exactly a year ago. So what has happened now?

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Speaker 4: Where are we at in twenty twenty four?

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Speaker 3: So on Wednesday local time, so it was Thursday in

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Speaker 3: Australia Wednesday, there the House of Representatives, which is one

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Speaker 3: of the two houses there, passed a bill that would

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Speaker 3: force Byteedance to sell TikTok or to face it being banned.

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Speaker 3: And when the lawmakers behind this spoke about it. They

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Speaker 3: really emphasize that they're not wanting to just immediately ban TikTok.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of the last option. Their real goal here

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Speaker 3: is for byte Dance to sell the app to a

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Speaker 3: company outside of China so that it's no longer under

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Speaker 3: their control again, because they believe that the Chinese government

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Speaker 3: is partly controlling Byteedance. And now, obviously the big focus

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Speaker 3: here is TikTok, but the bill also said that it

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Speaker 3: applies to any other social media company that is quote

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Speaker 3: controlled by a foreign adversary and has been determined by

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Speaker 3: the President to present a significant threat to national security.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean by a foreign adversary?

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Speaker 3: Great question. I also had this because I wasn't exactly

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Speaker 3: sure what they meant by that. So it actually refers

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Speaker 3: to an existing law in the US that lists foreign

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Speaker 3: adversaries as one of four countries, and they are North Korea, China, Russia,

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Speaker 3: and Iran.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 4: I feel like we are often hearing the US talk

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Speaker 4: about national security in terms of those four countries, but

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Speaker 4: I never realized that there was actual legislation to describe

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Speaker 4: them as the official foreign adversaries of the US.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Really explicitly lays that out.

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Speaker 4: So this bill has passed the lower house, the House

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Speaker 4: of Representatives.

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Speaker 2: How much support did it receive.

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Speaker 3: Well, it passed pretty convincingly with a vote of three

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty two to sixty five, which I think

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Speaker 3: is really fascinating. I mean, US politics is more divided

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Speaker 3: than ever, so for it to have this massive support

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Speaker 3: from both sides is quite an achievement for the people

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Speaker 3: who made this bill.

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Speaker 2: It's a very rare show of bipartisans jo Yes.

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Speaker 3: So that word bipartisan is a word that keeps coming

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Speaker 3: up when you will see the reporting on this, and

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Speaker 3: it means that politicians from both the Democratic Party and

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party, which are the two major parties in

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Speaker 3: the US, were in favor of it. Democrat Raja Krishna Morphy,

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Speaker 3: who was one of the bill's authors, said, again, the

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Speaker 3: bill is not about banning TikTok, but it's about changing

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Speaker 3: who owns it.

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Speaker 5: Let me tell you about Byte Dance. Byte Dance is

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Speaker 5: a one hundred percent owner of TikTok. Bye Dance is

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Speaker 5: controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. This particular bill ensures

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Speaker 5: that Byte Dance divests itself of the vast majority of

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Speaker 5: the ownership of TikTok. Our intention is for TikTok to

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Speaker 5: continue to operate, but not under the control of the

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Speaker 5: Chinese Communist Party.

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Speaker 3: So some pretty strong points there.

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Speaker 4: So, even though we know that this bill passed with

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Speaker 4: an overwhelming majority in the House of So, there was

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Speaker 4: still sixty five leaders who voted against it. What do

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Speaker 4: we know about the opposition to this bill? What's been

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Speaker 4: said from the people who aren't in favor of it.

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the politicians who opposed the bill was

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Speaker 3: Democrat Maxwell Frost. He believes that the bill violates the

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Speaker 3: US Constitution.

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Speaker 6: I believe that it is an infringement on our First

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Speaker 6: Amendment rights. Now, I do have to say, am I

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Speaker 6: concerned about Americans data? Yes? I am, but this bill

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Speaker 6: does not fix that problem. Let's be honest here now.

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Speaker 3: Lucy who is tda's fact checker, when she was going

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Speaker 3: through our posts for this, she actually pointed out that

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Speaker 3: Frost was the first gen Z person to be elected

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Speaker 3: to US Congress, So that means that he is the

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Speaker 3: youngest person in either the House or the Senate. So

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Speaker 3: basically he's the young person in the House. Saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: TikTok is a really important part of a lot of

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Speaker 3: young people's lives, and it's a big part of how

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Speaker 3: a lot of them get communication and get news, even

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Speaker 3: the daily ods like we have a full time journalist

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Speaker 3: dedicated to TikTok, So it would really impact young people's

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Speaker 3: way of getting us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's really interesting or telling that the

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Speaker 4: youngest person in Congress, youngest person by a fair chunk. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think Worth adding has spoken out against his own

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Speaker 4: party even on this one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And another vocal critic of this law is Donald Trump. Now,

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Speaker 3: Trump is interesting because he actually called for a ban

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Speaker 3: of TikTok back when he was president in twenty three.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I remember being mister I hate TikTok.

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Speaker 3: He was absolutely against it. But he has changed his mind,

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Speaker 3: and his reasoning is more because he doesn't want Facebook

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Speaker 3: to become bigger than it already is.

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Speaker 6: There's a lot of good and there's a lot of

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Speaker 6: bad with TikTok, But the thing I don't like is

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Speaker 6: that without TikTok, you can make Facebook bigger.

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Speaker 7: And I consider Facebook.

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Speaker 8: To be an enemy of the people, along with a

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Speaker 8: lot of the media.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so just to recap there.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump is concerned that if TikTok went away, Facebook

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Speaker 4: would grow m exactly. Yeah, So Billy, what happens now?

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Speaker 3: So, now it's past the House of Representatives, it now

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Speaker 3: needs to pass the Senate, which is the other house

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Speaker 3: in the Congress. Now it's not clear what will happen here,

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Speaker 3: So Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has not confirmed if

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Speaker 3: he will bring the legislation to the floor. Now that

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Speaker 3: might be confusing because in Australia, if something goes through

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Speaker 3: the House of Representatives, it automatically goes to the Senate.

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Speaker 3: But when I looked further into this, in the US,

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Speaker 3: that's not necessarily how it happens. So his role allows

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Speaker 3: him to actually determine the schedule of the bills in

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Speaker 3: the Senate. So from my understanding and I learned about

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Speaker 3: this today, he can control whether or not this is

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Speaker 3: put to the floor in the Senate. So let's just

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Speaker 3: say that it does go to the floor and it

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Speaker 3: does pass the Senate, then President Joe Biden has to

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Speaker 3: approve it, and a spokesperson has said that Biden would

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Speaker 3: approve this bill if it comes across his desk, So

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Speaker 3: then that would mean that it becomes law. But even

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Speaker 3: if it does become law, it could still face challenges

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Speaker 3: over whether it complies with the country's constitution, and that

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Speaker 3: would mean that it's a matter for the US Supreme Court,

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Speaker 3: which is the top court in the US, to deal with.

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Speaker 4: Have we heard, then, Billy from TikTok more recently. We've

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Speaker 4: heard those grabs earlier in the episode. But what have

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Speaker 4: they said specifically about this bill.

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Speaker 3: Well, you'll be shocked to hear that they're not very happy.

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Speaker 3: They are really not happy with this bill passing the

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Speaker 3: House of Representative. The CEO has called it disappointing. Here's

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Speaker 3: some more of what he said in a video that

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Speaker 3: he posted to TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Over the last few years, we have invested the KI,

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Speaker 1: your data safe and our platform free from outside manipulation.

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Speaker 1: This bill gives more power to a handful of other

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Speaker 1: social media companies. It will also take billions of dollars

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Speaker 1: out of the pockets of creators in small businesses.

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Speaker 4: That's the situation in America. But what about here in Australia.

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Speaker 4: Has the government responded to this one at all? A

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Speaker 4: We're going to be banned from using TikTok in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Well, firstly to mention, in Australia, TikTok is actually already

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Speaker 3: banned on all federal government devices, so that happened last year,

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Speaker 3: but that doesn't impact the broader population. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I spend way too long on TikTok every day.

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Speaker 4: So this band specifically applies to if you work for

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Speaker 4: government in public service. If you've got a government commissioned device,

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Speaker 4: like if you have work phone, Yeah, when you work

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Speaker 4: in public service, that device cannot have TikTok, yes.

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Speaker 3: And that was also because of national security concerns. But

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Speaker 3: talking about this bill that was passing the US, the

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi has said that the Australian government

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Speaker 3: has no plans to introduce similar legislation to what happened

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Speaker 3: in the US. So he said, quote, you always have

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Speaker 3: to have national security concerns front and center, but you

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Speaker 3: also need to acknowledge that for a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: people this provides a way of them communicating. But the

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Speaker 3: Opposition leader Peter Dudden wasn't so convinced that Alberanzi was

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Speaker 3: doing enough to address these concerns seriously. And here's a

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Speaker 3: bit of what he said about.

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Speaker 8: That if the intelligence agencies here are informing the Prime

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Speaker 8: Minister that young people online or millions of Australians who

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Speaker 8: might utilize this platform, if their personal information is being compromised,

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Speaker 8: if it's been hoovered up from their individual messages, if

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Speaker 8: their images are being captured, then that's not a safe

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Speaker 8: place for young people to be and the Prime Minister

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Speaker 8: needs to explain to the Australian public how he's going

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Speaker 8: to address it and how he propose us to keep

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Speaker 8: people safe online.

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Speaker 3: So all in all, I think we are going to

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Speaker 3: be hearing a lot more about TikTok, both in Australia

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Speaker 3: and the US. Of course, I mean this is massive news.

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Speaker 3: If it does get banned in the US, that would

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Speaker 3: be absolutely massive.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just another quiet day in the news of social media.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Lot clearly has happened in the last few weeks for

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Speaker 3: social media.

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Speaker 2: Bring back my Space haha.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Thank

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Speaker 4: you Billy for taking us through that very interesting and

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Speaker 4: complicated one. At least we know podcasting is safe for

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Speaker 4: now touch Wood. So share the episode with a friend.

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Speaker 4: If you learned something from today, make sure you follow

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Speaker 4: the Daily OS wherever you get your podcasts, so that

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Speaker 4: there is episode of TDA waiting for you every weekday morning.

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Speaker 2: Until then, have a great weekend. We'll chat to you

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Speaker 2: on Monday.

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Speaker 7: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda

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Speaker 7: Bungelung calcott in one from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz

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Speaker 7: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

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Speaker 7: the Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

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Speaker 7: torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to

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Speaker 7: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.