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Speaker 1: The other big news of the day is the fact

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Speaker 1: that the Northern Territory government set to undertake an independent

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Speaker 1: review into its ambulance services as cost blowouts continue to

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Speaker 1: plague the health system. It's the third review this year

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Speaker 1: into Saint John's I believe this year. It's certainly the

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Speaker 1: third review after a financial review of the emergency ambulance

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Speaker 1: provider was completed in April. Yes, and the clinical governance

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Speaker 1: review is set to be handed up in coming weeks. Now.

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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line to talk more about this

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Speaker 1: is Erina Early, United Workers' Union Secretary. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 1: How are you Erina?

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Speaker 2: Morning, Katie?

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Speaker 1: How are you? Yeah? Really good? Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Is this review a good thing

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Speaker 1: from the union's perspective?

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Speaker 2: It's a welcome start, Katie, because as you know, from

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Speaker 2: the union position, we've always wanted the ambulance server to

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Speaker 2: come back to government. So this is a good, welcome

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Speaker 2: start from our membership.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I know you guys have been calling for that

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. Why so we've.

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Speaker 2: Always been of the strong view KD. And this is

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Speaker 2: coming from my paramedics Emergency Distatus communication the patient transport

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Speaker 2: that an ambulance service should never be contracted out. It

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Speaker 2: needs to be run by the government because it belongs

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Speaker 2: to the Territorians. We would never allow police to be privatized,

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Speaker 2: would never allow the firees to be privatized, while we're

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Speaker 2: allowing for our ambulance service. Government always provides the best

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Speaker 2: service for ambulance.

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Speaker 1: The flip side of that, Eraina, is that our health

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Speaker 1: service at the moment is already totally understrained. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're going from code yellow to code yellow. What makes

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Speaker 1: you think that the department would be able to manage

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Speaker 1: the health the ambulance service any better.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, our preference if it did come to government,

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Speaker 2: Katie would go under the Department of Health, but there

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Speaker 2: is talk that it could come under the Fire and

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Speaker 2: the new Foreign Emergency Department that's been made. But yes,

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Speaker 2: we are aware the health is under the pump et cetera,

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Speaker 2: but so are the ambulance service. But when you bring

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Speaker 2: them into government, there is opportunities where you would actually

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Speaker 2: start getting an increase of paramedics. We have dual qualifications,

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Speaker 2: which are nurses. We had thirteen phone calls yesterday KD

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Speaker 2: after the announcement from paramedics who have left, and twelve

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Speaker 2: of those paramedics all have dual nursing qualifications. They said

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Speaker 2: they'd come back in a heartbeat because they love the

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Speaker 2: NT but could no longer work for Saint John.

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Speaker 1: How much extra could it potentially cost though, as well, Erina,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be something that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are asking given the fact that we're eleven billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in debt.

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Speaker 2: So Katie, at the moment, the government already still pays

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Speaker 2: for the ambulance service because it's a contract, so they

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Speaker 2: pay Saint John to provide this ambulance service. So they're

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Speaker 2: roughly already providing nearly forty six million dollars a year

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Speaker 2: plus any additional funding that Saint John require to provide

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Speaker 2: different stus services or different things that happened. So the

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Speaker 2: government's already paying for it. So yes, they are going

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Speaker 2: to be some initial costs. But also to Katie is

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Speaker 2: you're going to be looking at there's an opportunity for infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: for new stations to be built, so that stimulates the economy,

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Speaker 2: you know, provides jobs for people as well. Also to

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Speaker 2: you look at different opportunity for paramedics to come back

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Speaker 2: to the Northern territory, so we've got more people the

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Speaker 2: populace growth as well, So it opens up a whole

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Speaker 2: opportunity for the territory, especially around the economy. That could

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Speaker 2: be an option, Kadi, that we have similar to Queensland

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Speaker 2: where we get free ambulance subscription, right what Queenslanders do,

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Speaker 2: So that would be fantastic. We used to have it

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Speaker 2: here in the territory of seventy five years ago, but

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Speaker 2: when the contract was taken over that stopped.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it's freezer, are we going to be

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Speaker 1: paying for it in otherwise? Erina, like through the budget.

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Speaker 2: So what they do in Queensland, Katie, is it goes

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Speaker 2: on people's power bills. So I think they pay like

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Speaker 2: ten dollars on a power bill or something like that

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Speaker 2: that they might not be the correct number, sorry Katie,

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Speaker 2: but you do pay it other ways. But it is

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Speaker 2: something there. So that means every territory, regardess of your gender,

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Speaker 2: your employment status, your financial statusy colors of skin, will

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Speaker 2: get free paramedic service.

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Speaker 1: Erin are a couple of listener questions this morning. I've

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Speaker 1: got one here that says, hey, Katie, as a current paramedic,

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Speaker 1: I'm not permitted to speak to the media. Can you

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Speaker 1: please have Erina from the United Voice on your show

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Speaker 1: to talk about the concerns of our paramedic workforce. Please

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Speaker 1: ask her about a recent ambulance response policy which has

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Speaker 1: and is placing patients at significant risk of harm or

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Speaker 1: even death. The review is desperately needed. Daily territorians are

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Speaker 1: being placed at serious risk. There are unjustifiable delays every

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Speaker 1: day to serious sick and injured people. Erina, can you

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Speaker 1: give us a bit of context to that.

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Speaker 2: Sure. So in March this year, Saint John executive put

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Speaker 2: out a new dispatch policy. It wasn't discussed at all

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Speaker 2: with any of the paramedic stating they just discussed it

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Speaker 2: with management. You didn't discuss it with the union and

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Speaker 2: just put it out. So the union advised that this

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Speaker 2: was unacceptable and it was a breach of the enterprise agreement.

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Speaker 2: So they allowed us to get some feedback from members.

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Speaker 2: So this policy basically provided Saint John management the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to hold back cases so they didn't have to go

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Speaker 2: in pay the penalty rate if members don't if paramedics

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Speaker 2: don't get their fatigue breaks right. So what they did

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Speaker 2: it's a cost saving money. Saint John will tell you

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Speaker 2: something completely different, Katie. But they're misleading the public there.

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Speaker 2: It is all a cost saving thing for Saint John

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Speaker 2: and our paramedic. And I'll give you some comments, Katie.

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Speaker 2: So basically, our members are saying that they had a

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Speaker 2: person who was feeduring for an hour. Saint John held

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Speaker 2: a job for a prolonged time until the crew had

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Speaker 2: finished their break. They made it a lower priority so

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Speaker 2: or was it considered priority one? Basically that person did

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Speaker 2: not survive when they got to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, mate, this is here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: This is here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: We have got one with a Priority one chef train

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Speaker 2: in the evening and they weren't dispatched for another seventeen

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Speaker 2: minutes later the crew because they were held back to

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Speaker 2: save money.

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Speaker 1: They are, I mean, they're massive claims to make. I

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Speaker 1: will catch up with Saint John's very shortly and you know,

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Speaker 1: get their take on that as well. And you know,

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Speaker 1: nobody wants a situation where patients aren't where you're not

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Speaker 1: going out to patients as quickly as possible, particularly if

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Speaker 1: they're dangerous situations. Eron, I look the other I guess

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Speaker 1: the flip side of this is that some are questioning

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Speaker 1: whether the review it's dud to commence in July, with

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Speaker 1: that final report to be provided by the government to

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Speaker 1: the government, I should say by the end of the year,

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Speaker 1: so after the election. Some are questioning, is the government

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Speaker 1: just doing this to keep the unions like United Voice

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Speaker 1: happy before the election.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm never happy, kadious is Look, some people may

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Speaker 2: see that, and I can understand where that perception comes from,

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Speaker 2: if they're really going to keep paramedics happy, because when

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Speaker 2: people say United Workers Union, you're actually talking about the

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Speaker 2: paramedics here, because they're the union, not meet we would

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Speaker 2: have this government now. That has been our sight and

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Speaker 2: it's been for decades that have been fighting for this.

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Speaker 2: My understanding is this is because there's been a lot

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Speaker 2: of complaints not just from the paramedics but from other

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Speaker 2: major stakeholders about the clinical governances of Saint John about

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Speaker 2: how they're doing their finances. Paramedics have been lobbying politicians

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Speaker 2: on both sides of different parties, etc. They've gone federally

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Speaker 2: as well, so there's a whole big balling pot of

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Speaker 2: different stakeholders who aren't happy with the Ambulance Service and

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Speaker 2: have been putting pressure on the government saying we will

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Speaker 2: need some real serious change here.

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Speaker 1: Well, Erina, no doubt this is something that will continue

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Speaker 1: to have discussions about as we do lead into the

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Speaker 1: election and once that review is complete. Hey, before I

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Speaker 1: let you go, we spoke to Cathatchi yesterday about this

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Speaker 1: as well. I know that there was a petition that

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Speaker 1: was tabled in Parliament earlier in the week around the

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Speaker 1: Middle Arm precinct and the concerns of nurses. There's a

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Speaker 1: real sort of you know, there's a lot of discussion

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Speaker 1: at the moment, probably mostly by political pundits like myself,

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Speaker 1: wondering if the Labor Party is divided when it comes to,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Middle Arm precinct and also when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the development of gas, how does your union

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Speaker 1: feel about the development of gas and indeed about that

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Speaker 1: Middle Arm precinct.

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Speaker 2: So in regards to that, kay, I just want to

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Speaker 2: make clear, so the Nurses Union and our comrades over

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Speaker 2: there are not affiliated to the ALP, So I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to clarify that for you. Yeah, but the ALP,

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Speaker 2: yes definitely is divided on the Middle Arm. So all

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Speaker 2: the unions are involved in social justice and climate justice

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Speaker 2: managers as well as well as fighting for workers right

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Speaker 2: United Workers Union. But we do have some membership who

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Speaker 2: completely support the Middle Arm because they see it as

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Speaker 2: a similars to the economy and also to and more jobs.

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Speaker 2: But we do have other members who are concerned about

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Speaker 2: the ramifications of the Middle Arm and the impact that

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Speaker 2: we'll have on the environment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, so even within I mean even within the union,

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Speaker 1: there's very different views. Do you think it's gonna a lot?

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to have an impact in

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Speaker 1: the sense that the Chief Minister evil Ala has said

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Speaker 1: that in terms of bringing down that eleven billion dollars

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Speaker 1: of debt, it is absolutely that project is needed and

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Speaker 1: is forming part of our own source revenue once it

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Speaker 1: gets up and running. Like, do you think it's going

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Speaker 1: to cause some issues or how do you what do

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Speaker 1: you feel about it, even given the fact that your

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Speaker 1: union seems as though there's very different views in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's an interest one, Katie, because I think

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Speaker 2: every government always says every project, you know, instrumental, we

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Speaker 2: need it, we need it, etc. I'm just basically very

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Speaker 2: I think what we really need to do is consider

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Speaker 2: what the impacts are going to be. Yes. Is it

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Speaker 2: going to bring jobs and it will? It probably will.

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Speaker 2: That gets a tick. Is it going to be stimulating

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Speaker 2: the economy, Yes it will, but at what cost? Yep,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing that we need to consider.

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Speaker 1: Well eron early. I always appreciate your time. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having a chat this morning and obviously answering my questions

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Speaker 1: about other stuff as well as the ambulance review.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Katie, have a great day you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you