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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Dahlias.

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Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. It's Friday, the ninth of May.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this week, India fired missiles at Pakistan, reigniting a

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Speaker 1: long simmering conflict over a disputed region in the Himalayas.

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Speaker 1: Pakistan said India's strikes killed at least thirty one people,

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Speaker 1: mainly civilians, and that it's considering it an act of aggression.

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Speaker 1: Today we'll explain the history of Kashmir, the region at

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Speaker 1: the center of this conflict, and what has brought on

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Speaker 1: the latest hostilities.

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Speaker 2: Lucy, a lot of our audience have been dming us

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Speaker 2: and asking us to explain what is happening in Kashmir

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Speaker 2: as it pertains to India and to Pakistan. Now, this

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Speaker 2: is of those topics that is extremely complicated and has

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Speaker 2: a lot of history behind it. But I think a

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Speaker 2: good way to understand this is to first go through

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Speaker 2: the headlines that everyone will have been seeing this week,

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Speaker 2: and then to step back and understand the context. So

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Speaker 2: why don't we start with the most recent events first?

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Speaker 1: So the headlines our readers would have seen would have

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Speaker 1: started about two weeks ago. That's when Gunman opened fire

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Speaker 1: on tourists visiting Pahlgam, a town in the Himalayas, killing

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Speaker 1: at least twenty six people. Phalgam Is in Kashmir. That's

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Speaker 1: a region that borders India, Pakistan and China. Following a

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Speaker 1: UN decision in the late nineteen forties, India controls half

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Speaker 1: and Pakistan controls half, and Pahlgam is in the Indian half.

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Speaker 1: Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi called the killings a terrorist attack,

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Speaker 1: and India has accused Pakistan of supporting the militants behind it.

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Speaker 2: So there were militants who killed tourists in the Indian

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Speaker 2: part of Pahalgam in Kashmir, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: And India has accused Pakistan of supporting these militants.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Pakistan has denied this, and Pakistan has also offered to

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Speaker 1: participate in a neutral international investigation the killings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, But that was two weeks ago, and then this

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Speaker 2: week there's been more news.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And in the interim in between two weeks ago

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Speaker 1: and this week, tensions between the two countries have fairly

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Speaker 1: significantly increased. India has ordered Pakistanis to leave the country,

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Speaker 1: Pakistan has canceled Indian nationals visas, and both countries have

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Speaker 1: withdrawn from bilateral treaties sworn between the two of them.

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Speaker 1: Then this week, tensions really explode when India fired missiles

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Speaker 1: at the Pakistani province of Punjab and at Pakistan's section

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Speaker 1: of Kashmir.

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Speaker 2: And at the time of recording, we understand that at

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Speaker 2: least thirty one people, mainly civilians, have been killed in

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Speaker 2: those missile attacks. Yes, in Pakistan, okay, And so that's

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Speaker 2: all on foot right now. Yes, but you referred there

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Speaker 2: to a un partition, to Kashmere, to a lot of

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Speaker 2: concepts that I think might be foreign to some of

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Speaker 2: our listeners. So can you give me a bit of

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Speaker 2: historical context about Kashmir and what we need to understand

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: I can give you a lot of historical context because,

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Speaker 1: as I learned while researching this podcast, the only way

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Speaker 1: to explain this is to go back to the year

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Speaker 1: sixteen hundred. That's when Queen Elizabeth I of England created

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Speaker 1: the East India Company. This company controlled Britain's trade with

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Speaker 1: India for hundreds of years. It had troops, and it

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Speaker 1: fought wars with Indian rulers for land and access to

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Speaker 1: ports to ship all the goods that they were taking

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Speaker 1: from India. In the seventeen fifties, the company took control

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Speaker 1: of the entire subcontinental peninsula through wars and through deals.

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Speaker 1: When I say India from now until later on, I

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Speaker 1: mean the region that we would now consider India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,

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Speaker 1: and Myanmar and Sri Lanka was also eventually colonized. The

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Speaker 1: East India Company's rule lasted for one hundred years, during

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Speaker 1: which time the company imposed impossibly high taxes, let millions

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Speaker 1: die in famines, and took basically every resource that they

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Speaker 1: could find for their own. Then, in the eighteen fifties,

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Speaker 1: Indian men in the East India Company's army turned on

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Speaker 1: their British leaders over a religious dispute, which led to

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Speaker 1: a major rebellion. Britain then intervened and crushed that rebellion,

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Speaker 1: and the British government took full control of the entire region.

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Speaker 1: Then Queen Victoria became the Empress of India. And this

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Speaker 1: was an era called the British Raj and it was

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Speaker 1: part of the British Empire.

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Speaker 2: And so how long did the British Raj? How long

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Speaker 2: did that last?

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Speaker 1: For it lasted until after World War II. It ended

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty seven. Basically, over time, Indian people slowly

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Speaker 1: began to assert more control in the Raj. Following a

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Speaker 1: massacre of Indian people in a park by British soldiers

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Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen, non violent protests spread around the country

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Speaker 1: led by Mahatma Gandhi and others. Following World War II,

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Speaker 1: the British government, Indian nationalists, primarily Hindu, and a Muslim

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Speaker 1: political group negotiated India's independence from Britain. The upshot of

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Speaker 1: these negotiations was that the region was split into Hindu

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Speaker 1: majority India and Muslim majority Pakistan, a process called partition.

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Speaker 1: Kashmir became a flashpoint of conflict between the new nations,

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Speaker 1: with both fighting for control over the region. The UN

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Speaker 1: then intervened and the area was split into Pakistani control

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Speaker 1: in the north and in control in the south Okay.

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Speaker 1: As we know though, that was not the end of

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Speaker 1: the conflict. More conflicts have followed, driven largely by religious

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Speaker 1: tensions by the Muslim majority in Pakistan the Hindu majority

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Speaker 1: in India. The two countries have gone to war in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, nineteen seventy one, and nineteen ninety nine

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Speaker 1: over the region, and then there's another conflict in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four that's over a glacier in Kashmir. There was

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Speaker 1: a ceasefire in that conflict in two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: but it's not really considered to be over. Tensions between

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Speaker 1: the two countries have remained extremely high, so much so

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Speaker 1: that actually during a recent international cricket competition called the

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Speaker 1: Champions Trophy, which was hosted by Pakistan, India refused to

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Speaker 1: play games in Pakistan, and so India played its games

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Speaker 1: against a bunch of different countries, including Pakistan in Dubai

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Speaker 1: and Pakistan also won't play in India even if they're

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Speaker 1: playing against India at these international level competitions. So that

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Speaker 1: kind of tells you where the tensions were at earlier

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Speaker 1: this year as we head possibly towards another war.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back with the rest of today's podcast after

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Speaker 2: a quick message from our sponsor. Okay, so let me

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Speaker 2: just recap. So, Kashmir is partitioned, has been partitioned by

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Speaker 2: the UN into two parts, one part being controlled by India,

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Speaker 2: the other by Pakistan, and there have historically been tensions, conflicts,

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Speaker 2: and it is that region right now that is at

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Speaker 2: the center of renewed hostilities.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because that's where the massacre of tourists by a

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Speaker 1: militia took place. And that's India has accused Pakistan of

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Speaker 1: backing this militia, which Pakistan has denied.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and so that incident took place two weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: and then this week we saw India fire missiles into Pakistan.

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Speaker 2: What's been the fallout since then?

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Speaker 1: So immediately after the missile firing, India's embassy in Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC released a statement defending its actions. It said it

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Speaker 1: launched the attack after Pakistan failed to quote take action

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Speaker 1: against the militants responsible for the earlier attack. Again they

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Speaker 1: are saying that Pakistan was involved. They maintained the missile

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Speaker 1: strikes were quote focused and precise and did not hit

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Speaker 1: any civilian, military, or economic targets. Al Jazeera and Reuter's

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Speaker 1: reported on Thursday that India had bombed multiple mosques. So

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Speaker 1: that's international reporting that hasn't been confirmed by either side.

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Speaker 2: And then what has Pakistan's response been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Pakistan said the initial round of strikes killed at

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Speaker 1: least thirty one people, primarily civilians. It also said it

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Speaker 1: had shot down a few Indian Air Force planes. In

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Speaker 1: a statement, Pakistani PM Shabbaz Sharif called the attacks cowardly

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Speaker 1: and said quote a resolute response is already underway, says

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Speaker 1: Pakistani attacks have killed at least fifteen civilians in the

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Speaker 1: part of Kashmir that it controls.

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Speaker 2: What of the international responses to what we're seeing unfold been?

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Speaker 2: What have we heard, for example from the UN? Say so?

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Speaker 1: The UN Secretary General Antony Uguaterez urged both countries to

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Speaker 1: show restraint. He said, quote, the world cannot afford a

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Speaker 1: military confrontation between India and Pakistan. That global language saying

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Speaker 1: the world can't afford it is probably inspired by the

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Speaker 1: fact that both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna ask, because so many of the dms

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Speaker 2: that we received asking us to explain this have asked,

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Speaker 2: are we on the cusp of another world war? And

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Speaker 2: is it because of the nuclear capability of both of

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Speaker 2: these countries that there is a suggestion that this could

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Speaker 2: escalate to that level?

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Speaker 1: That has certainly been mentioned in a lot of the

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Speaker 1: reporting that I've seen. But I will also say that

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Speaker 1: Russia has nuclear warheads and it has been at war

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Speaker 1: with you Ukraine for three years, and there's been zero

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Speaker 1: suggestion that they are going to deploy major nuclear warheads.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's the concept of mutually assured destruction. Given

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Speaker 1: that India and Pakistan share a border, and given the

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Speaker 1: radius of a nuclear bomb, if one were to be dropped,

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Speaker 1: that would be catastrophic for the entire Asian continent, but

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Speaker 1: especially both India and Pakistan. So it seems unlikely, but

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Speaker 1: it could mean a why there's always the risk with

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Speaker 1: any regional conflict that it spills out into a broader war.

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Speaker 1: Going back to some of the global response, the European

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Speaker 1: Union's head of foreign policy said on Wednesday that the

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Speaker 1: organization is attempting to cool off tensions, and Nobel Peace

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Speaker 1: Prize winner Malala Yusufsai, who is Pakistani, has also called

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Speaker 1: for tensions to be de escalated and for both countries

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Speaker 1: to protect civilians. But it's kind of not clear that

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Speaker 1: that will actually happen. So Shabaz Sharif, as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: the Pakistani Prime Minister has been reported as saying India

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Speaker 1: will quote suffer the consequences of its strike, so we're

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Speaker 1: going to have to wait and see.

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Speaker 2: Lucy. Thank you for explaining that it is so complicated,

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Speaker 2: there's so much history, but it's such an important topic

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Speaker 2: to understand. So thank you for taking us through that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for another week of the

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Speaker 2: Daily os. That was a big week of news and

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Speaker 2: we so appreciate all the support and love that you

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Speaker 2: have shown us this week. We'll be back later today

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Speaker 2: with some more headlines, but until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,