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Speaker 1: Yesterday we spoke about these major reforms to the electricity

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Speaker 1: system and network to enhance reliability is what the government said,

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Speaker 1: and affordability. They were introduced into Parliament yesterday. The reforms

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Speaker 1: are going to create a new governance arrangement for procuring

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Speaker 1: electricity assets and energy contracting, cutting red tape, and an

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Speaker 1: independent system controller and market operator is also set to

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Speaker 1: be established separate from Power and Water Corporation Now. The

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Speaker 1: Minister for Minds into Energy, Jared Mayley, says that the

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Speaker 1: system controller will help to prevent to outages like the

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Speaker 1: one that impacted about fourteen hundred customers in Palmerston on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Joining us on the line is the Opposition leader Selena Ubo.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listener.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me what do you make of these changes

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Speaker 1: that the government's announced and introducing to parliament.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, this is a continuation of some of the

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Speaker 2: work we started when Labor was in government. It is

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Speaker 2: unfortunately a year behind. It should have been introduced and

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Speaker 2: debated and hopefully passed in the parliament end of last year,

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Speaker 2: so it's nearly twelve months behind. But it's work that

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Speaker 2: we started, so we will support it. It doesn't look

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Speaker 2: like there is much that has changed in the time

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Speaker 2: that we're in government to what's been introduced and what

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Speaker 2: will be debated today by Jared Mayley and the Coelpea government.

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Speaker 2: So we don't think that this is a contentious issue

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Speaker 2: in this comes from so translation.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I'm pleased to hear that because I listened

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Speaker 1: to him yesterday and I wasn't one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 1: whether this was going to mean, you know, power prices

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Speaker 1: going up, arms being privatized, or what it sort of meant.

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Speaker 1: So by the sounds of it, bipartisan support on this

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Speaker 1: because it does continue on some of the work that

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Speaker 1: you guys had done. I mean, when you look at

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Speaker 1: the announcement of that independent system controller and market Operator

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Speaker 1: being established separate from Power and Water Corporation, is that

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Speaker 1: a good move?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think what I'm very keen to find out

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Speaker 2: today through the debate and to the response from government,

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Speaker 2: is there's going to be an absolute separation with NINTESMO

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Speaker 2: the energy market operator or will it just be on paper.

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Speaker 2: So I've got some people who've asked me questions, people

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Speaker 2: who are very technical in nature and deal with this

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Speaker 2: every day in terms of their day jobs. But I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing a bit more around the separation is more on

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Speaker 2: paper than in practice side of the energy provider as

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Speaker 2: well as the operator. So just keen to find out

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Speaker 2: a bit more about that from the government today.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that these changes are going to

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Speaker 1: see some saving measures longer term when it comes to infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: because I think that we can all agree and I

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Speaker 1: know that we always have government sort of saying you know,

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Speaker 1: this mob did this, this one didn't do that. But

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Speaker 1: when it comes to power and water, and when it

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Speaker 1: comes to our infrastructure, you know, I've been around for

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Speaker 1: long enough to know that both governments should have invested

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Speaker 1: more heavily into that infrastructure. But do you think that

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Speaker 1: these changes are going to mean that you know that

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Speaker 1: we see some of that investment and that it we're

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Speaker 1: not doubling up by guesses, is the way I want

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Speaker 1: to ask.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the big piece of the legislation

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Speaker 2: that's happening today, which we started, is around the connectivity

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Speaker 2: and stability of energy in the Northern Territory and allowing

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Speaker 2: for more connectivity around renewable energy. We know that there

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Speaker 2: is a big want in the territory community to transition

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Speaker 2: towards more renewables. This legislation helps to enable that and

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Speaker 2: I think that's a positive thing. It also provides some

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Speaker 2: more options around new technologies being able to be brought

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Speaker 2: into the territory energy mix, and I think that's a

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Speaker 2: really good way forward for the territory. Whether it's a

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Speaker 2: labour piece of legislation or COLP, I think overall that

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Speaker 2: having the ability to streamline more energy mix into the

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Speaker 2: territory grids is really important because we have at the

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Speaker 2: moment kat three electricity grids across the Northern Territory that

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Speaker 2: are powering our biggest town centers and cities. There's a

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Speaker 2: couple of standalone ones as well. In the end, so importantly,

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Speaker 2: what does this mean for Territorians. We want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the community service obligation remains of the government.

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Speaker 2: What I was really worried about in the discussion yesterday

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Speaker 2: jured mainly as the Energy Minister brought forward a minister

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Speaker 2: or report and called it the dire state of Energy

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory. I think it was a real

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Speaker 2: fear mongering exercise, and what our concern is from the

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Speaker 2: labor team is that they're priming territorians for those huge

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Speaker 2: price increases on territorials hip pockets, which is what happened ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we hope not. And I made the point yesterday in

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Speaker 2: that that was a separate debate case. But I made

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Speaker 2: the point in that because today's is really about how

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Speaker 2: do you bring in and make sure that the energy

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Speaker 2: mix in the Northern Territory is fit for purpose, is reliable,

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Speaker 2: it's stable, but it is cost effective for territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's they are all the very important points. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I do just want to make your way though. I

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Speaker 1: know that there was a non reliable system notice in

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Speaker 1: place for Darwin Catherine Power System until the twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: of October, so only for another day, but basically that

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Speaker 1: risk notice issued when a grid's generators do not have

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Speaker 1: enough spare generation capacity to guarantee full supply if a

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Speaker 1: contingency event occurs. I mean, that's a worry I think

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people listening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, Katie, And that's why the work of

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Speaker 2: all of our providers is so important. When we can

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Speaker 2: see the territory is We've heard from the Bureau of

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Speaker 2: Meteorology this week there's a heat wave being experienced across

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Speaker 2: the territory like Home and Catherine, I think they're up

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Speaker 2: to forty one, So more air cons, more fans, more

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Speaker 2: pool pumps going to be used, and obviously to cool

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Speaker 2: people down and to keep people at a safe place

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Speaker 2: when it's high temperatures. That also puts a lot of

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Speaker 2: stress and loading on the systems. So being able to

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Speaker 2: identify that show those warnings, and we're at the opposite

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Speaker 2: in the dry season Katie, and particularly our springs in

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Speaker 2: the winter when there's not a lot of energy use

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Speaker 2: other than the heating, because there's so much done that

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Speaker 2: their soulars are working and there's not always that output

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Speaker 2: for the extra energy. So there's a really fine balance

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Speaker 2: that and I learned many years ago when I have

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Speaker 2: the energy renewables portfolio. There's a really fine mix. But

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Speaker 2: the work that people do in that territory generation with

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Speaker 2: our obviously retailer, with Chakana and of course Power and

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Speaker 2: Water Corporation, the work that they do to collaborate as

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Speaker 2: our government owned corporations with some of those other energy

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Speaker 2: providers in the territory is so important. So when we

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Speaker 2: do have weeks or months like this, when the territory

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Speaker 2: unfortunately is getting hotter year after year. The energy can

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Speaker 2: be followed and tracked and seeing what is stable, and

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Speaker 2: then also putting out those warnings so people are aware,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're not at home, turn off your

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Speaker 2: air gone or turn off your fans, etc. Whatever those

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Speaker 2: savings measures and energy measures are. You know, just getting

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Speaker 2: people aware of that I think is really important.

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Speaker 1: Selena, A couple of quick ones before I let you

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Speaker 1: go this morning. I know that that Cat macnamara, the

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Speaker 1: members and Nightcliffe introduced emotion to censure the Deputy Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister yesterday. I'm saying that the well for his ongoing aggressive,

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Speaker 1: threatening behavior in the chamber. She said, primarily to the

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Speaker 1: women on the cross bench. I mean, do you think

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Speaker 1: that the Deputy Chief Minister needs to be censured here

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Speaker 1: or do you think that the new member of Parliament

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Speaker 1: Cat McNamara needs to toughen up.

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Speaker 2: I think there was some quite concerning behavior last week

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Speaker 2: by Jared maybe the Deputy Chief Minister, which was predominantly

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Speaker 2: what was the focus of Cat McNamara's motion, the censure

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Speaker 2: motion that went before the House yesterday. I think it

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Speaker 2: is probably poor choice by the government not to accept

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Speaker 2: that censure because that's when you can talk it out

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Speaker 2: and really get to the crux of that issue, and

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Speaker 2: we're talking about those key leadership roles of the government.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really important that you know, people don't

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Speaker 2: just see a five or ten second grab of our politicians,

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Speaker 2: that we really get to delve into the issues. I

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Speaker 2: do know that some of the cross Bench have gone

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Speaker 2: to the parliamentary process to flag their concerns. I think

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Speaker 2: this is another measure to bring out and highlight or

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Speaker 2: low light whatever you want to look at it, the

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Speaker 2: concerns that they have. And it is a very unique workplace.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken about it before, Katie, and there are lots

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Speaker 2: of ups and downs. There's not a lot of processes

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Speaker 2: around behavior like that, so I think they've done some

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Speaker 2: different I understand that I'm not gonna speak for casual

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Speaker 2: Justine at all is on the cross bench, but I

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Speaker 2: think there has been ways to flag that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in the past, when I've felt like the workplace was

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Speaker 2: not a supportive environment for me, I've stood up and

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Speaker 2: done a ten minute adjournment about that to let people know.

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Speaker 2: Because sometimes you think we get to talk and figure

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Speaker 2: around the Northern territory, but we also need to be

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Speaker 2: able to feel that we're empowered to do that until sake.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, do you think that we run the

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Speaker 1: risk here of actually not having healthy debate inside the Parliament? Like,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, you know, I literally some days

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Speaker 1: I have stand up arguments with people in this studio.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't had one with you, and I

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Speaker 1: hope I don't have to, but I definitely have over

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Speaker 1: the years. But I've also seen in parliament, you know,

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Speaker 1: over the last sort of fifteen years, because I worked

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Speaker 1: as a labor staff for many, many years ago, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen, I've got to tell you, a lot worse

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Speaker 1: than what I've seen over the last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you hit the nail on the

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Speaker 2: head there, Katie. Healthy debate and when debate feels unhealthy

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Speaker 2: for someone. It's not for me to say how another member,

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Speaker 2: especially another female member of Parliament feels, But in terms

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Speaker 2: of when people don't feel that they're able to voice,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what work environment. Obviously we're on a

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Speaker 2: very different stage and we're in we're in the spotlight

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Speaker 2: all the time as politicians, but that healthy debate is

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Speaker 2: so important and when it becomes unhealthy, and I have

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Speaker 2: seen that. I have seen some very toxic behavior in

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Speaker 2: words and behave in in the parliament. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm no age. We know that becomes unhealthy. I think

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Speaker 2: that is the issue, and that's really what I think.

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Speaker 2: Kat McNamara articulated through her motion and we were prepared

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Speaker 2: to support it. It didn't get up. The government did

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Speaker 2: accept that, so we weren't able to have that ongoing debate.

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Speaker 1: Key, hey, really quick one before I let you go

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Speaker 1: the well. The Senator Lydia Thorpe in the Federal Parliament

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Speaker 1: has referred the Northern Territory Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby

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Speaker 1: to the nt IKAC following allegations of government interference in

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Speaker 1: media communications from the Supreme Court. Now she's talking about

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Speaker 1: elite email from the NTS top judge asked asking the

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's department not to interfere with the Court's media activities.

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Speaker 1: That's according to a report by the ABC. Now. Both

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Speaker 1: parties later said it was a misunderstanding which has been resolved.

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Speaker 1: Senator Thorpe then accusing Miss Boothby of undermining the independence

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Speaker 1: of the judiciary and the separation of powers. Also obviously

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Speaker 1: referring to her not initially declaring the conflict of interest

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Speaker 1: in terms of Jake Danby being her sister's step son.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of these calls by Lydia? I

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Speaker 1: know that the last time she sort of delved into

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory politics, it was calling you a man as

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General. I mean, what do you make of it?

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Speaker 2: I think she called me a white man.

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Speaker 1: I think she did it.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't remember. I got the transcript of it and everything.

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Speaker 1: And you shut her down afterwards. I mean, you shut

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Speaker 1: her right down.

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Speaker 2: I definitely did, And I mean that probably irks people

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Speaker 2: that most is when we have people from outside the

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Speaker 2: territory talking about territory issues. But in terms of this

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Speaker 2: particular issue, Katie, I think that, you know, I would

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Speaker 2: never say I agree necessarily with sender the thought, but

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Speaker 2: I think I agree with the issue being a concern

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Speaker 2: for Territorians when we do talk about separations of power

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Speaker 2: and the judiciary and the lawmakers, which we are as

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Speaker 2: members of the Northern Territory Parliament, if there is any

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Speaker 2: blurred line or crossover that needs to be addressed, and

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Speaker 2: we haven't heard any of that come from the Attorney

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Speaker 2: General and more disturbingly, Katie, we haven't heard any of

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Speaker 2: that from Lisanocchio. As the Chief Minister, she should be

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Speaker 2: standing up and saying this is absolutely not part of

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Speaker 2: what our government does. We will never overreach like she

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Speaker 2: needs to be strong on this, and we need to

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Speaker 2: see that from the Attorney General of course, but if

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Speaker 2: she's the crux of the complaint and the issue and

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Speaker 2: the concern, we need to hear that from the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister and the Deputy Chief Minister to reassure territorians. What

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Speaker 2: other Australians think about the territory is their business, but

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Speaker 2: to reassure territories that that separation of power is respected

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Speaker 2: and it will not be crossed.

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Speaker 1: Selina Yu Both the Opposition leader. I better let you

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Speaker 1: go get into Parliament. Thanks so much for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you