WEBVTT - Rolfe Takes the Stand

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<v Speaker 1>This is Curtain, a podcast where we expose the disappearances

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<v Speaker 1>of Aboriginal people across this country, shining a light on

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<v Speaker 1>the darkest parts of our justice system.

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<v Speaker 2>We ask who are the victims?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm aiming Maquire, and I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior Advocate at

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<v Speaker 3>the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning. This series

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<v Speaker 3>contains the names of deceased people and includes distressing content

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<v Speaker 3>that may upset some listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Episode six of Curtain the Podcast. In this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to look more into the racism of policing

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<v Speaker 1>across the country, looking at the specific case of Zachary

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<v Speaker 1>Rolfe who killed Aboriginal teenager Coleman J.

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<v Speaker 2>Walker in Uinda Moo.

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<v Speaker 1>Rolf was acquitted of the murder of mister Walker, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was an incredibly historic case because it was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the first times in Australia history that a police

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<v Speaker 1>officer has been charged with murder over a black death

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<v Speaker 1>in custody. The reason it is so important for us

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<v Speaker 1>to look into this case specifically as we investigated the

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<v Speaker 1>cases of disappearances of Aboriginal women all Acosta country, is

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<v Speaker 1>because there's a perception that the police are there to

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<v Speaker 1>protect not only Aboriginal women, but all women. And yet

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<v Speaker 1>through this podcast, we've shown clearly that that is not

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<v Speaker 1>the case. We've shown clearly that reform of the police

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<v Speaker 1>is not the answer because often it is the police

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<v Speaker 1>who are enacting some of the worst forms of violence

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<v Speaker 1>against Aboriginal women. And the significance of the Zachary Rolf

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<v Speaker 1>case is huge because it reveals the innate, racist and

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<v Speaker 1>gendered violence of policing. This is not a conversation that

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<v Speaker 1>often comes up in relation to black deaths in custody.

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<v Speaker 1>Often when cases of black death and custody are reported

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<v Speaker 1>on in the media, there are continual silences and deflecting

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<v Speaker 1>away from a perpetrator, so that the person who has

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<v Speaker 1>died becomes responsible for their own death and is criminalized

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<v Speaker 1>further even as they are the ones who have lost

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<v Speaker 1>their life. We've shown clearly that this is what has

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<v Speaker 1>also happened in cases of Aboriginal women who have been disappeared,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly up here in my home state of Queensland, where

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<v Speaker 1>often they have been criminalized before they have lost their

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<v Speaker 1>lives outside of bars. So today Martin is going to

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<v Speaker 1>bring you his analysis of Zachary Roff's testimony in the

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<v Speaker 1>coronial inquest which is currently ongoing into mister Walker's death

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<v Speaker 1>in Uindamu all those years ago. Martin, this is the

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<v Speaker 1>first time Rolf has actually given testimony in relation to

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<v Speaker 1>what happened to mister Walker. What do you think has

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<v Speaker 1>been missing from the media coverage?

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<v Speaker 3>I think this was a very important moment in the

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<v Speaker 3>history of understanding the way the police operate in this country.

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<v Speaker 3>As Amy said, we hadn't heard from Ralph before and

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<v Speaker 3>this was his chance to tell his side of the story.

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<v Speaker 3>But immediately it was evident that he was going to

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<v Speaker 3>take absolutely no responsibility and has learned nothing from his

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<v Speaker 3>own actions. He began his evidence with accusations of racism

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<v Speaker 3>against the NT police. He told the inquest about the

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<v Speaker 3>Tactical Response Group, which is a heavily armed squad which

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<v Speaker 3>respond to what they call high risk incidents in the

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<v Speaker 3>Northern Territory, and that they hold an annual award that

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<v Speaker 3>they call an I quote Coon of the Year Award.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously this is despicably racist, and yet this was a

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<v Speaker 3>unit that Zachary Ralph was desperate to join. So he

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<v Speaker 3>starts straight away as throwing around to accusations of racism

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<v Speaker 3>against his fellow officers, particularly more senior officers. And what

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<v Speaker 3>was disappointing to me was that this was hailed as

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<v Speaker 3>some sort of insight into anti policing. But we already

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<v Speaker 3>know that the Northern Territory Police are disgracefully racist and

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<v Speaker 3>always have been. This is an institution that's been rotten

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<v Speaker 3>from the start. So in my opinion, this was Ralph

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<v Speaker 3>just offering this up as both a distraction from his

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<v Speaker 3>own racism which we heard spoken about throughout the inquest

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<v Speaker 3>and that he admitted to on the stand, and his

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<v Speaker 3>own use of violence, and to shift his focus off

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<v Speaker 3>himself as an individual, refusing to ever really take responsibility

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<v Speaker 3>for any of his own actions, and the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>he began his testimony this way was I think a

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<v Speaker 3>very deliberate strategy. He was both a terrible witness and

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<v Speaker 3>someone who claimed to always be right. He said that

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<v Speaker 3>he was just clumsy when he applied to the Northern

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<v Speaker 3>Territory Police, that he'd failed to mention he had a

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<v Speaker 3>criminal offense charge and that he had other applications to

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<v Speaker 3>join other police forces, which is not allowed. He'd applied

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<v Speaker 3>for the Queensland Police, the Northern Territory Police and the

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<v Speaker 3>Victoria Police. On all of those application forms, he failed

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<v Speaker 3>to disclose that he'd been fined for public nuisance and

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<v Speaker 3>violent behavior in Queensland. So again, whether he failed to

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<v Speaker 3>disclose or not, this is something that could have clearly

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<v Speaker 3>been checked and the NT police failed to do so,

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<v Speaker 3>or maybe they didn't. Maybe they saw he had this

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<v Speaker 3>violent history and they didn't care. He also failed to

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<v Speaker 3>disclose on all the applications that when he'd applied to

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<v Speaker 3>join police forces he'd also been convicted of a military

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<v Speaker 3>offense while he was serving in the ADF. So this

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<v Speaker 3>was someone who went into the police force both with

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<v Speaker 3>clear violent tendencies, an attitude of disgusting racism, and who

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<v Speaker 3>had never shown any kind of discipline in his life,

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<v Speaker 3>and that would instantly play out. Between twenty sixteen and

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<v Speaker 3>twenty nineteen, he admitted that there was forty six use

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<v Speaker 3>of force incidences recorded against him. In a Northern Territory

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<v Speaker 3>Police's survey, it found that Ralph had the highest rate

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<v Speaker 3>of use of force incidents among random members of his

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<v Speaker 3>own graduating class. Now this is something had they done

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<v Speaker 3>their due diligence, they would have known, could have known,

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<v Speaker 3>and probably did know, because when his officer in charge,

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<v Speaker 3>Sergeant Bowens, was asked about it, he said, even if

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<v Speaker 3>he had been aware of the previous history, it wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>have concerned him. And that and his response about being

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<v Speaker 3>the officer in charge was and I quote, we do

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<v Speaker 3>not look at their record and how many use of

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<v Speaker 3>forces they had. That was part of the criteria. He

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<v Speaker 3>told the inquest use of force complaints these days can

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<v Speaker 3>be frivolous. This is his officer in charge claiming that

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<v Speaker 3>for the most part, And like many officers would say

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<v Speaker 3>on the stand, and they outlined the fact that named

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<v Speaker 3>lawyers that they outline make endless frivolous complaint. A they

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<v Speaker 3>were wrong about the numbers and who these lawyers were.

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<v Speaker 3>And B they were also wrong about the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>many of those incidences had actually been captured on camera

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<v Speaker 3>and shown to be incredibly violent. For example, in twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 3>Ralph punched an aboriginal man in the head, grabbed his

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<v Speaker 3>hair and slung him to the ground, rendering him unconscious

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<v Speaker 3>and needing sixteen stitches for cuts. And that, according to

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<v Speaker 3>his superiors and Rolph himself, was fine and any complaint

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<v Speaker 3>about it was and I quote frivolous. Now. Leading up

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<v Speaker 3>to when zach Rolf shot and killed Kumanji Walker, Zachary

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<v Speaker 3>Rolf had also talked about leaving the NT force, not

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<v Speaker 3>because it was some terrible racist place, but he wanted

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<v Speaker 3>what he called wild work and I quote dangerous shit.

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<v Speaker 3>The person he reached out to was Ben Roberts Smith,

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<v Speaker 3>who was found by the Federal court to be a

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<v Speaker 3>war criminal for his actions in Afghanistan. He also sent

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<v Speaker 3>text messages to his mother in this period leading up

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<v Speaker 3>to the shooting death of Kumenji Walker, admitting to his

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<v Speaker 3>own short fews and how angry he'd get that he'd

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<v Speaker 3>beaten the crap out of people. And it was discussed

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<v Speaker 3>by another officer in a text message that Ralph was

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<v Speaker 3>known for and I quote, towling up the locals. So

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<v Speaker 3>by the time he arrived in Uwindamu, he was a racist,

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<v Speaker 3>ticking time bomb ready to go off. The NT police

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<v Speaker 3>knew and were aware they had all the evidence for it,

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<v Speaker 3>and yet they let him explode, killing Kumanjai and facing

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<v Speaker 3>none of the consequences. And this is what we are

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<v Speaker 3>seeing play out in the inquiry as it drags on,

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<v Speaker 3>endless accusations being proven of racism and violence by Ralph

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<v Speaker 3>and his fellow colleagues, endless accusations, and then the evidence

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<v Speaker 3>to prove that there was no oversight, that superior officers

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<v Speaker 3>turned to blind eye, that his use of force was

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<v Speaker 3>out of control, and nothing. We're just supposed to watch

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<v Speaker 3>it pretend that that's all, okay. It really shows to

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<v Speaker 3>me how useless these inquests and inquiries are.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's interesting to me mrdin reflecting on all that

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<v Speaker 1>came out of the inquest, the fact that so much

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<v Speaker 1>didn't come out of his actual trial for certain reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>But it's really interesting to me because it seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be one of the only times where you have a

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<v Speaker 1>clear revelation of just obscene racial violence perpetrated by a cop,

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<v Speaker 1>but also the structural and institutional violence which supported him

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<v Speaker 1>to do that, which ultimately ended up in mister Walker

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<v Speaker 1>losing his life. You know, these don't come out often

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<v Speaker 1>of these processes at all, and yet it is still

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<v Speaker 1>a process that in a way does deny that justice,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>But it just strikes me.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this seems to be a very significant case in

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<v Speaker 1>relation to the history of policing in this country and

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<v Speaker 1>the way it particularly targets not just Aboriginal men, but

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<v Speaker 1>also Aboriginal women.

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<v Speaker 3>I think, yeah, that's a really important point to make.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think what you raised about the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>the difference between the trial and the inquest. The trial

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<v Speaker 3>is where he would have faced consequences, and yet almost

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<v Speaker 3>none of this evidence that we've heard was allowed in

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<v Speaker 3>the inquest, where he faces no consequences, and suddenly we're

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<v Speaker 3>allowed to hear it all. And we wonder why the

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<v Speaker 3>police are never held to account. And the dangerous part

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<v Speaker 3>of that is what they then go on to perpetrate,

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<v Speaker 3>knowing that they literally have a license to kill. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's what we've seen play out over and over again

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<v Speaker 3>in the cases we've covered. And you know Rolph's own

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<v Speaker 3>actions on that day too, as you watch the videos

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<v Speaker 3>that have been released. You know, we've previously talked about

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<v Speaker 3>things like gratuitous concurrence and the way that is used

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<v Speaker 3>when extracting and false confessions from Aboriginal people. But Rolf

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<v Speaker 3>used it himself to gain entry into a house where

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<v Speaker 3>there was no one wanted, and he used it against

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<v Speaker 3>an Aboriginal woman who was not the owner of the house.

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<v Speaker 3>And she made that very clear and yet he found

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<v Speaker 3>legal loopholes to use that they'd clearly been trained with

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<v Speaker 3>to gain access to the house, which he could not

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<v Speaker 3>have got because she was not the owner, and she

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<v Speaker 3>explicitly stated that, and that was never reported in the media,

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<v Speaker 3>and I thought it was a shocking omission that an

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<v Speaker 3>Aboriginal woman is there on video clearly identifying who she is,

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<v Speaker 3>why she's there, and that she not the owner and

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<v Speaker 3>therefore not giving permission nor can't give permission for him

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<v Speaker 3>to enter, and yet he completely fops her off and

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<v Speaker 3>goes into that home where there was nobody who was

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<v Speaker 3>wanted by police, and the media did not seem to

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<v Speaker 3>pick up on the way he treated that Aboriginal woman.

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<v Speaker 1>I also wanted to raise something that you've mentioned just previously,

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<v Speaker 1>and it relates to the links between the military and

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<v Speaker 1>the anti police, particularly the links to Ben Roberts Smith

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<v Speaker 1>and Rolf actively seeking out an environment in which he

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<v Speaker 1>can basically what he perceives to be do whatever he

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<v Speaker 1>wants with impunity. And it's seems to be a similar

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<v Speaker 1>logic from Australian soldiers like Ben Robert Smith, who committed

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<v Speaker 1>clear war crimes in Afghanistan, and what Rolf was doing

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<v Speaker 1>on the continuing frontier, you know. So the war never

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<v Speaker 1>ended in Australia, so there's a sense that he was

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<v Speaker 1>seeking out another frontier in which he could exert this

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<v Speaker 1>form of violence on a people that he deemed inferior.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that came through in his testimony in a

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<v Speaker 3>way that it didn't shock me, but at the same

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<v Speaker 3>time to see it so blatant, and to watch videos

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<v Speaker 3>of him first assaulting Aboriginal men and boys in just

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<v Speaker 3>a violent way. There was one incident in particular where

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<v Speaker 3>he approached to Aboriginal men who'd done nothing wrong and

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<v Speaker 3>assaulted both of them, and then with his body worn

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<v Speaker 3>camera still rolling, says to his colleague that they'd have

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<v Speaker 3>to write them up to justify his use of force.

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<v Speaker 3>And I totally agree with what you say. He was

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<v Speaker 3>seeking this kind of work in inverted commas out he

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<v Speaker 3>seemed to revel in committing these acts of violence. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>what many people may not know was that he took

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<v Speaker 3>the video from his body worn camera and played it

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<v Speaker 3>while recording with his mobile phone, so he could keep

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<v Speaker 3>a trophy, if you like, of the violence he committed.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the exact same thing we've seen from soldiers

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<v Speaker 3>in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he then added commentary over

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<v Speaker 3>the top, laughing and joking about it was almost like

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<v Speaker 3>he was voicing a sort of street fighter movie of

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 3>him assaulting these Aboriginal men for absolutely no reason. And

0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 3>yet despite this, he was applying to be part of

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 3>a more elite unit where he would have access to

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 3>military grade firearms, and even that wasn't enough for him.

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 3>He was reaching out to Ben Robert Smith because he

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 3>wanted to do more private security work, where again he

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 3>would have more impunity and access to a greater number

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:25.600
<v Speaker 3>of weapons. And the militarization of police forces in the

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.560
<v Speaker 3>United States we have seen lead to innumerable murders by

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 3>police of African Americans right across the country, and it's

0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 3>clearly happening in the Northern Territory and other states, and

0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 3>yet there is no exposure of it.

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 1>And I also just wanted to bring up as well

0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>as something that you mentioned in relation to the media reportage,

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and I think it speaks to also the vediation of

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Ben Robert Smith, because it was of course it's like

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>brilliant investigative journalism that actually exposed Ben Roberts Smith's war

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>crimes and that was later taken to court and it

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 1>was found that it was actually true.

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>So the journalist Nick, I think it was Nick.

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Mackenzie had actually done really good journalism relation to that.

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 1>But in Zachary Rolf's case, there was also even after

0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 1>he had killed mister Walker, there were attempts to launder

0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.239
<v Speaker 1>his image and it had actually come out, you know,

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the levels of complicity around this public relations exercise for

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.359
<v Speaker 1>Rolf was led by a journalist at The Australian named

0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Kristin Shorden, And I'd been following Kristin Shuldan's work on

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 1>this case because it was so egregious and so horrific.

0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 1>She was really just promoting Rolf as this hero cop

0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.200
<v Speaker 1>who was pushed into a corner her perception was by

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.439
<v Speaker 1>a violent black teenager. But it actually came out of

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 1>the inquiry just the levels she had actually gone to,

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and that she was actually a friend of Rolf's because

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.680
<v Speaker 1>her partner was also a cop, and she'd actually texted

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Rolf two days after he killed mister Walker in November

0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen and had actually offered her help. So she'd

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 1>actually said, hey, mate, heard the news. Hope you and

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 1>the shoulder are okay, ignore the leftist reporting in the media.

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully catch up soon, and then she'd written again, so

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.560
<v Speaker 1>glad you're okay. Could have been much worse. I know

0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 1>what you did was totally warranted. If you ever want

0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.679
<v Speaker 1>me to write an article in your defense without naming you,

0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 1>say the word. And Rolf took her up on the offer,

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 1>and what emerged was article after article about Rolf being

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 1>this hero cop and slandering you and Demo and mister

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 1>Walker in a certain way.

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>And the reason I want to bring this.

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Up specifically as well is because one of the tactics

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 1>that Shordun used was to bring up the abuse of

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.720
<v Speaker 1>black women and children in Uin Demo as justification for

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:51.159
<v Speaker 1>the police slaughtering and killing of mister Walker. And that

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.680
<v Speaker 1>was really really horrific to me because it is tactic

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.639
<v Speaker 1>that is so often used. They often bring up the

0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.160
<v Speaker 1>abuse of black women and children in order to justify

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.080
<v Speaker 1>these really extreme use of violence against black men, particularly,

0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.280
<v Speaker 1>but even against black women, as you'll hear in this podcast,

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 1>not actually looking at the fact that police are complicit

0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in the violence against Aboriginal women, and an example of

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.920
<v Speaker 1>that came out of another coronial inquest, not this inquest,

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.880
<v Speaker 1>but an inquest into the death of an Aboriginal woman

0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 1>named Miss Rabuncha, who was a really strong, proud Black

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.280
<v Speaker 1>woman who was one of the founders of the Tanangier

0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Women's Safety Group, had gone down to Canberra to advocate

0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 1>against family violence and later lost her life from a

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>violent partner. It was actually two days before mister Walker

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.440
<v Speaker 1>was killed, Rolf had been called to her house because

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 1>of a violent incident.

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:43.560
<v Speaker 2>She wanted help.

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.960
<v Speaker 1>He had made fun of her, he'd claimed she was

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 1>making things up. He'd mocked her in so many different ways,

0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.440
<v Speaker 1>and then mister Rabuncher later lost her life and Rolf

0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 1>was directly complicit in that he mocked her, a victim

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.159
<v Speaker 1>of family violence, an Aboriginal woman who was actively fighting

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.159
<v Speaker 1>against family violence in life. And that should tell you

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 1>everything about the very cynical and disgusting way that the

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Austray media, particularly this journalist Kristin Shordan, claimed to care

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>about the safety of black women, when really it was

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>just a pretense to exonerate her white kop friend who

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.880
<v Speaker 1>was actively complicit in not just the abuse of black women,

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:32.880
<v Speaker 1>but perpetrating police violence onto black men, which later resulted

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 1>in the loss of mister Walker's life.

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 3>I think one of the things that was so stark

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:43.159
<v Speaker 3>about that was that that offer of support and to

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 3>do a blatant biased article came before that journalist could

0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.359
<v Speaker 3>possibly have known the facts. And the facts are that

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 3>Zachary Ralph fired three fatal shots into the chest of

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Commenjoy Walker. And yet this alleged journalists didn't care about

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 3>any of that. Instantly she wanted and was willing to

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.080
<v Speaker 3>take his side. And it shows the mindset is already

0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:18.680
<v Speaker 3>made up. Just as his mindset was that an Aboriginal

0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 3>woman was making frivolous accusations about domestic violence, the journalist's

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 3>mindset was, of course, the police officer did the right

0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.520
<v Speaker 3>thing in killing an Aboriginal man. So in these instances

0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.719
<v Speaker 3>of debts in custody and domestic and family violence, the

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 3>minds of those who make the biggest impact, the police

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 3>and the mainstream media, those that get to respond first

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 3>to these incidences, have already been made and that Aboriginal

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:56.440
<v Speaker 3>men are guilty and can be put down like animals,

0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.479
<v Speaker 3>and that Aboriginal women are simply making it up lying

0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:05.520
<v Speaker 3>and even if it's true, don't deserve protection. That's the reality,

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 3>And so when people propose that we have more police

0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:16.439
<v Speaker 3>involvement in domestic and family violence, more police involvement in

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 3>the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous women and children,

0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.200
<v Speaker 3>you have to ask why do you want these people involved.

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.960
<v Speaker 3>Have you taken the time to see what they admit themselves.

0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 3>Have you taken the time to see what they do

0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 3>when they're given more power. And as for the media

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:38.720
<v Speaker 3>who push these issues, if she was willing to write

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:43.720
<v Speaker 3>an openly biased piece before knowing any of the facts,

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.480
<v Speaker 3>what does that say about all of her coverage of

0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:52.560
<v Speaker 3>the Northern Territory and particularly her writing on Aboriginal communities.

0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:54.200
<v Speaker 3>It's probably bullshit.

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Just as we investigated the case that started this podcast,

0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.080
<v Speaker 1>the wrong for of Kevin Henry and the miscarriage of

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 1>justice around Linda's death, we actually have to look broadly

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.080
<v Speaker 1>at the environment in which the disappearances of Aboriginal women

0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.640
<v Speaker 1>are occurring. And that's why we have to look at

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.840
<v Speaker 1>cases that may not seem on the surface directly related

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.399
<v Speaker 1>to the stories that we're talking about on this podcast.

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 1>We have to look at what's happening with police. We

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:26.119
<v Speaker 1>have to carefully interrogate the violence of police because it

0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 1>is so silenced, particularly in the media, but in Australian society,

0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, elections are won and lost on the issue

0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.040
<v Speaker 1>of law and order, which is always predicated on drumming

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:43.640
<v Speaker 1>up these moral panics which are always revolving around, for example,

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 1>black children, and this is something that's currently happening in

0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Queensland and New South Wales.

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Across the country.

0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 1>So we have to look at the wider environment to

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 1>understand the levels of violence because Aboriginal women don't just

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 1>experience one form of violence.

0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.680
<v Speaker 2>We experience so many unique oppressions.

0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:04.000
<v Speaker 1>So through this podcast, we'll be occasionally expanding the scope

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.160
<v Speaker 1>of the topics we talk about in order to bring

0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:09.119
<v Speaker 1>you an understanding of what is actually happening on the ground.

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.640
<v Speaker 1>But in future episodes, we're also hoping to look at

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:17.560
<v Speaker 1>specific cases, cases that we continue to delve into, because

0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.640
<v Speaker 1>there are continuing miscarriages of justice where there are families

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 1>who are still fighting for the return of their loved

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>ones and fighting for a form of justice that they

0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 1>want for those who are no longer here. One of

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 1>those cases is a case that is close to both

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Mardin and My Hearts, and that's Menique Club, who has

0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.640
<v Speaker 1>disappeared in Beinglei back in twenty thirteen.

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I hope you stay with us as we.

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Continue to look deeply into the disappearances of Aboriginal women

0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:48.880
<v Speaker 1>all across the country.

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.679
<v Speaker 3>This episode was brought to you by Black Cast and

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:57.360
<v Speaker 3>produced by Clint Curtis. For more, you can visit us

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 3>at www dot kurtin the podcast us dot com, follow

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.960
<v Speaker 3>us on Twitter at curten podcast, and help to support

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:10.440
<v Speaker 3>our work at Patreon dot com. Backslash Curtain podcast. Mm

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 3>hmmmm