1
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

2
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the

3
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,800
Speaker 1: Daily Oz. It's Friday, the sixth of March. I'm belief,

4
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: it's Simon's I'm Zara Zeidler. In case you missed it,

5
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,959
Speaker 1: the US government has recently been clashing with one of

6
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 1: the biggest AI companies over how it is using their technology. Now,

7
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 1: at the heart of this argument is two things. How

8
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,839
Speaker 1: AI is used to surveil populations and how AI is

9
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: used in the war. This saga resembles a thriller movie

10
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 1: that is one of those stories that you just couldn't write.

11
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 1: So here is how it has all unfolded over the

12
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: past week.

13
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 2: So Billy, it feels like every workplace, every school, every university,

14
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 2: everyone is talking about how to deal with the rise

15
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 2: of AI. No one really knows how to play this,

16
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 2: what to do next, because it is so new and

17
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,720
Speaker 2: it is so transformative. It turns out that even the

18
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 2: US government is not immune from those sorts of conversations.

19
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 2: And so I guess, stepping back a bit, what is

20
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,039
Speaker 2: the Trump administration's general vibe or view about how AI

21
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 2: should be used?

22
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,559
Speaker 1: So basically, they want to really aggressively adopt AI across

23
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: all of their systems, and that includes in military systems.

24
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: So last year you might have missed this, but US

25
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: President Donald Trump he announced the country's AI Action Plan,

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 1: and in that he declared that they are in a

27
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: quote race to achieve global dominance in artificial intelligence. So basically,

28
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 1: well not basically, he did. He compared it to the

29
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: space race of the nineteen sixties, just to give you

30
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: an idea of kind of how historical this is in

31
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: the period that we are in and how governments around

32
00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: the world are trying to figure out what to do

33
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 1: with AI and how.

34
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,600
Speaker 3: To implement it in all of their systems.

35
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 2: Because there is no rule book for this, like, no

36
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,239
Speaker 2: one's done it exactly, and we're all figuring it out

37
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 2: in real time.

38
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and one.

39
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,919
Speaker 1: Of the things Donald Trump said that AI could do

40
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 1: is transform the country's war fighting. Well, yes, So to

41
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 1: do this, the US Department of War signed a two

42
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar two year contract with Anthropic.

43
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 2: Can I just jump in there, yes, okay, Department of War,

44
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 2: explain Anthropic, Explain.

45
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,760
Speaker 3: Department of War. They used to be the Department of Defense.

46
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 2: I've been trying to figure this out oh really, yes,

47
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 2: because some places are referring to a Department of Defense,

48
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 2: others are talking about it as the Department of War.

49
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 2: I thought there were two different things.

50
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: They're just interchangeable. You can name them the same thing, right,

51
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: it changed under Donald Trump and Tropic they are the

52
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: makers of Claude Zara.

53
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:56,800
Speaker 3: I know you are familiar.

54
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a quon. I am very well familiar

55
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,240
Speaker 2: with Claude, but perhaps our listeners are not.

56
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 1: Perhaps they are not. It is an AI chatbot. It's

57
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: essentially similar to chat GPT. They also have a series

58
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 1: of other large language models, which if you don't know

59
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 1: what that is, it's basically just an AI chatbot that

60
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,360
Speaker 1: is super intelligent.

61
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,119
Speaker 3: I guess to really dumb.

62
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 2: We're going straight back to basics.

63
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: So that partnership between the Department of War and Anthropic

64
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: was designed to quote unquote advance US national security. So

65
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: that was the purpose of it, and it meant that

66
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: Anthropic was the first and also the only generative AI

67
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: company to have their models deployed on the US government

68
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: classified networks. So basically they were privy to all of

69
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: the confidential stuff, or their models were privy to all

70
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: of the confidential stuff. Because of this contract.

71
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to get into this later,

72
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 2: but I'm curious when you talk about the military or

73
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 2: the Department of War using AI, like, what are they

74
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 2: using it for? What are we actually talking about here?

75
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 1: So it can be when they're at their computers and

76
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: it's giving all of the confidential information going through that

77
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 1: and being able to analyze that information more quickly, But

78
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 1: then it can also be used with weapons, which we

79
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 1: will get into.

80
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm not going to jump the gun there,

81
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: so let's go back a bit. You said that Anthropic

82
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 2: and the US Department of War had this agreement in place.

83
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 2: What actually happened because we understand now that they are

84
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 2: not friends anymore.

85
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 1: They are not friends anymore. So how we found out

86
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: that they are not friends anymore? We kind of heard

87
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 1: that there had been these disagreements going on in the background.

88
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 1: But then late last month, which is actually last week

89
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,800
Speaker 1: because of where we are last week, So last week,

90
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: Anthropics said that it wanted their contract with the Department

91
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 1: of War to change to include two exceptions with how

92
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,640
Speaker 1: the Department of War could use their technologies.

93
00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 2: And what were those exceptions?

94
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 1: So the first exception is that their technology would not

95
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: be used for mas domestic surveillance. So the company said

96
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 1: that today's AI is advanced enough that it could assemble

97
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: this is a quote from them, a comprehensive picture of

98
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:22,479
Speaker 1: any person's life, automatically and at massive scale. Now the company, yes,

99
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: now the company and topic is against that. They said

100
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,239
Speaker 1: that their technology being used for that they believed would

101
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: be a violation of fundamental rights.

102
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,279
Speaker 2: Great, can I just quickly recap? So the Department of

103
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 2: War and Anthropic had an agreement whereby the Department of

104
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,600
Speaker 2: War was using Anthropic so Claude for certain purposes. And

105
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 2: then last week Anthropic turned around and said, actually, we

106
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,159
Speaker 2: have some issues or red lines as it were, yes,

107
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 2: where we don't want you to cross and we don't

108
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 2: want you using our technology. And one of those was

109
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 2: about surveillance. What was the other one?

110
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: So I'll go through the other one in a second.

111
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,280
Speaker 1: It was last week that it kind of all played out,

112
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,119
Speaker 1: but it's been going on in the background for a while.

113
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 1: But yes, everything else was correct.

114
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 2: Now.

115
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 3: The second exception was that.

116
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,719
Speaker 1: Their technology would not be used for fully autonomous weapons.

117
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: So those are weapons that don't require humans to identify

118
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 1: and shoot at targets they just are fully autonomous without

119
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: any humans, right and Anthropics said that whilst this could

120
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: be critical in the future, the technology is not reliable

121
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 1: enough yet and therefore should not be used. And it

122
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,840
Speaker 1: said that whilst it could be reliable enough one day,

123
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: So it really emphasized that they're not totally against this

124
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 1: ever being used. They just said that right now it's

125
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 1: not good enough, and that whenever it is good enough,

126
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 1: the role out of it needs to have proper guardrails

127
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,360
Speaker 1: which don't currently exist.

128
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 2: Do we know if it has been used for either

129
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,679
Speaker 2: of those two reasons prior to now?

130
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,599
Speaker 1: Andthropics said that they are not aware of it being

131
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: used for that right now, but they wanted to put

132
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,920
Speaker 1: these red lines in place to stop it.

133
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 2: Understood, okay, And so the company itself, which is a

134
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 2: private company, said this quite publicly or it was made public. Rather,

135
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,840
Speaker 2: how did the US government then respond to them setting

136
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: those guardrails for how they want to work with the

137
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: Department of War?

138
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: So they completely disagreed, they essentially being the US government.

139
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: The US government completely disagreed. The Department of War essentially

140
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 1: said that Anthropics shouldn't be able to dictate how the

141
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,119
Speaker 1: US government uses its technology, so they said they should

142
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 1: be able to use it how they want, as long

143
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 1: as they are always complying with the law. Now, one

144
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 1: thing that I didn't mention is that there's kind of

145
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 1: disagreement about whether mass surveillance is currently legal. And Tropic

146
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: says that the laws haven't kept up with how quickly

147
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 1: technology is changing. The US government says it is illegal

148
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 1: to do that, so they were never planning on using

149
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 1: it for CAT. There's kind of disagreement there, but I

150
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: think we keep going and just put that as a

151
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: side note.

152
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so US government said we should be able to

153
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 2: use this however we see fit what happened next when

154
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 2: these I guess lines were drawn.

155
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: So the negotiations didn't go well. Neither were willing to

156
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 1: budge I guess. And the US Defense Secretary, who is

157
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,679
Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth, he is the head of the Department of War,

158
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,679
Speaker 1: is a key person in all of this. He said

159
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 1: publicly Andthropic, you have a deadline and you have to

160
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,320
Speaker 1: comply with our rules by this deadline. That deadline was

161
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 1: five oh one pm, five oh one, five oh one pm,

162
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,079
Speaker 1: very specific.

163
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

164
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 2: I didn't have time to look into all.

165
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 3: Okay, five oh one pm last Friday.

166
00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,960
Speaker 2: Okay, what happened at five o two?

167
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:02,040
Speaker 3: Nothing?

168
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 1: Because Anthropic refused to change its demands, so their position

169
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: did not change. But something did happen at five point

170
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: fourteen pm, hexeth, You.

171
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 2: Didn't even wait for me to ask what? Well?

172
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,560
Speaker 1: Sorry, please go on the head of the Department of War.

173
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: He put out a statement announcing that he had designated

174
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: Anthropic as a national security threat because of their refusal

175
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 1: to comply.

176
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 2: And that's not something that's done lightly. No, that's not

177
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 2: a normal thing to have happened.

178
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 1: No, in terms of why, his argument in that statement

179
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: was essentially that Anthropic is a private company and is

180
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 1: trying to dictate how the US military operates, and the

181
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 1: US Department of War is saying that that decision should

182
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: only be up to the US government, which is elected

183
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 1: by the people of the US.

184
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 2: You might not have the answer to this question, but

185
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 2: still going to ask it anyway. Did money change hands

186
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,200
Speaker 2: in agreement? Like we was the US Department of War

187
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 2: paying for Claude to be used in this way?

188
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 3: Do we know it was a two hundred million dollar contract?

189
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? I miss when you said that you missed that,

190
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 2: all right, moving on, Okay, so did he say anything else?

191
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 1: He said a lot. I think the only other quote

192
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,079
Speaker 1: that I wanted to mention was he said America's war

193
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 1: fighters will never be held hostage by the ideological whims

194
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 1: of big tech.

195
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 2: Wow. Very strong statement there.

196
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 1: And then Trump also had strong words. He directed all

197
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: US government agencies to immediately stop using anthropic So this

198
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:40,959
Speaker 1: is all we're still on Friday.

199
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

200
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,320
Speaker 1: Part of his statement read I've read it out. We

201
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 1: don't need it, we don't want it, and we will

202
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 1: not do business with them again. We will decide the

203
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,000
Speaker 1: fate of our country, not some out of control, radical

204
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: left AI company run by people who have no idea

205
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,199
Speaker 1: what the real world is all about.

206
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,080
Speaker 2: Okay, very strong words. And it is an interesting dynamic

207
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 2: to be talking about and thinking about, given how the

208
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 2: relationship between tech founders and tech owners and the Trump

209
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 2: administration has looked. You know, we've seen someone like Elon

210
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,680
Speaker 2: Musk in the news a lot for his relationship with

211
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,239
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. This is quite a different sort of conversation

212
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 2: to be having. I want to ask what happened next,

213
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 2: because I know I've read a lot of headlines about

214
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 2: chatjebt spoilers. Sorry, apologies, but let's throw to a quick

215
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: note from today's sponsor and come back to that in

216
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 2: a second. All right, to Billy before the throw, I

217
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,000
Speaker 2: spoiled it all he did. But chatchebt owned by open Ai. Yes,

218
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 2: they entered the chat. What happened?

219
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: They entered the chat? So yes, you said open Ai.

220
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 1: You might be familiar with them. They are the makers

221
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 1: of chatchebt, the most widely used AI chatbot in the world.

222
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: Now we're still on Friday in this timeline, long day,

223
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,720
Speaker 1: I know, long day. So hours after that five oh

224
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: deadline past, open Ai announced that it had reached an

225
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 1: agreement with the Department of War to essentially take over

226
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,559
Speaker 1: from Anthropic.

227
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,679
Speaker 2: I don't know why where I'm just going to interrupt you.

228
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,080
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I just had Stephen Bradbury going

229
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,920
Speaker 2: through my head, Anthropics being knocked down, and open Ai

230
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:20,280
Speaker 2: just comes through in the middle.

231
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 1: And for anyone who's not familiar with that name, he

232
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: is the Australian Olympian who was ice skating. Yep, everyone

233
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,280
Speaker 1: fell down. He was coming last, and then because everyone

234
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 1: fell down, he won gold.

235
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 2: Which is not really what happened here, But in my head,

236
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,679
Speaker 2: that's what happened. So we're still on Friday and open

237
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 2: AI announce a deal.

238
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 1: Yes, and they basically said in that announcement that the

239
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 1: technology could be used for any lawful purpose. The CEO

240
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 1: of open AI, Sam Oltman, he really emphasized in that

241
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 1: statement that the government had displayed a deep respect for safety.

242
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 1: Those are his words in their interactions, So he basically said,

243
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: we have this deal, but the government has promised that

244
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: they will use it safely and legally.

245
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 2: So he's saying, like, we have the same concerns, but

246
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,559
Speaker 2: we have received assurances from the government that they're going

247
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 2: to use it in the ways that we think are okay.

248
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 1: On Friday, they didn't talk about the concerns that Anthropic

249
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 1: had outlined. So they didn't talk about mass surveillance of populations,

250
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: didn't talk about autonomous weapons. They just said they will

251
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,839
Speaker 1: use it safety in mind.

252
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 2: Okay. So is that what the state of play is

253
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 2: that open AI and the US government have formed this

254
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 2: agreement and it will now go forward.

255
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 3: No, So then it changed, Okay.

256
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,679
Speaker 1: A few days ago OpenAI announced that there would now

257
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 1: be amendments because there was backlash about the deal, and

258
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,560
Speaker 1: Sam Altman put out a really interesting statement where he

259
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,559
Speaker 1: basically admitted to rushing that deal and rushing putting out

260
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 1: a statement on Friday whilst all of this was going out,

261
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: and he said that his initial statement quote unquote just

262
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 1: looked opportunistic and sloppy.

263
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:11,720
Speaker 2: Wow.

264
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,520
Speaker 1: And he said that he had these learnings from putting

265
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: that out now because.

266
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 3: He basically didn't use the word regret, but he basically

267
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 3: said he regrets it.

268
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

269
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: Now, those amendments that they have now announced do include

270
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 1: that the technology would not be used for mass domestic

271
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 1: surveillance or for directing autonomous weaponsystems.

272
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 2: And as the Department of War accepted those amendments.

273
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yep, So that's where we are at the

274
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 3: end of the story.

275
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: Okay, it's kind of confusing, Like with the mass domestic

276
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 1: surveillance exception. For example, OpenAI said that the government considers

277
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: that to be currently illegal, so they say that they

278
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 1: were never planning on using it for that anyway, So

279
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: they're kind of saying that anthropics concerned their wasn't valid

280
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,479
Speaker 1: because it would never be used for that. But OpenAI

281
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 1: has said that now in the contract it explicitly says

282
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 1: that it will not be used for that, and if

283
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: they want to use it for that, the contract will

284
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: need to change again.

285
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,800
Speaker 2: Interesting. One of the things that I've seen around a

286
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 2: lot is that since all of this unfolded, the number

287
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 2: of downloads for Claude, which is Anthropic, have just been

288
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 2: sky high that I'm pretty sure it's shot up and

289
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 2: become the most downloaded app.

290
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 3: And that way it was down, yeah.

291
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,360
Speaker 2: I mean that's what people are suggesting. It was down

292
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 2: this week. It was a network era and perhaps because

293
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 2: there's so much demand. So some people are looking at

294
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 2: how Anthropic has dealt with the government and saying they

295
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 2: want to support that. But it's really interesting.

296
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 3: I didn't put those two things together.

297
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: And one other interesting thing just to think about is

298
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: that this was all playing out whilst the US was

299
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 1: what we now know they were planning on striking Iraq.

300
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there was kind of this active war.

301
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, really interesting. Well, Billy, thank you for explaining that. Thanks,

302
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 2: very fascinating story.

303
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 3: Thank you just call me a tech gali.

304
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for another episode of the

305
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 2: Daily Ours. We'll be back late this afternoon with your headlines,

306
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 2: but until then, have a great day.

307
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 3: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

308
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 3: Bungelung Chalcuttin woman from Gadighl country.

309
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

310
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all.

311
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 3: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our

312
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 3: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

313
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:41,520
Speaker 3: and present.