Speaker 1: The Rising Conquer Podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of the
Speaker 1: land which this episode is being recorded, the Yugen Bear region.
Speaker 1: We further acknowledge country throughout Australia and their connections to land,
Speaker 1: sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders
Speaker 1: past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal
Speaker 1: and terrest Raid Islander peoples today. Hello and welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Rise and Conquer Podcasts. This is the podcast
Speaker 1: for ordinary people who want to do extraordinary things. Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. It
Speaker 1: is your host, Georgie Stephenson. I'm a lawyer and entrepreneur, wife,
Speaker 1: mum all the things. Today we are joined by Lisa
Speaker 1: Messenger as she unpacks what it's been like to be
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur for the last twenty years. If you don't
Speaker 1: know Lisa, she is a vibrant founder and CEO of
Speaker 1: the Messenger Group as well as the founder and editor
Speaker 1: in chief of Collective Hub. She has authored over thirty
Speaker 1: six books in the realms of positive psychology and business,
Speaker 1: and as you're hear in today's chat, she has achieved
Speaker 1: so many incredible things. So I was just so excited
Speaker 1: to get her on the potty and to share all
Speaker 1: her wisdom with you. So today we chat about how
Speaker 1: she has been able to continually scale her business on
Speaker 1: a global scale, what the pivoting of her business was like,
Speaker 1: what her marketing tactics are like, and basically just gives
Speaker 1: us the inside scoop of how she has been so
Speaker 1: successful in business. We also chat to Lisa about her
Speaker 1: newest book, Start Up to Scale Up, and she gives
Speaker 1: off her best tips for inspiring entrepreneurs on how they
Speaker 1: can grow a successful brand. This chat was so insightful
Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy it. I just I love
Speaker 1: chatting to Lisa, So you guys, you're gonna love this one.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the show.
Speaker 2: Lisa, Welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. How are
Speaker 2: you today?
Speaker 3: Thank you? It is so good to be here and
Speaker 3: I am super well today.
Speaker 2: So good. How amazing is it that the sun is shining?
Speaker 3: Finally, the sun is shining. I'm not sure where you
Speaker 3: are in the world, but I move around a lot,
Speaker 3: but today I'm in Barron Bay and the weather is beautiful, amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm at the Gold Coast, so I'm in a couple
Speaker 2: hours away from you amazing.
Speaker 3: Well that's good. I know. I'm kind of living between
Speaker 3: Austin in the US, Sydney and Byron, so I never
Speaker 3: know where I am on any given day.
Speaker 2: I love that. Well, first of all, before we get
Speaker 2: into all the goodness, I know everyone would know who
Speaker 2: you are, but can you tell the R and C
Speaker 2: potty who you are and what you do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that is a long question, but I'll try
Speaker 3: and smush it down. So I'm Lisa Messenger and this
Speaker 3: is my twenty first year of having my own business.
Speaker 3: So there's little that I haven't failed at or had
Speaker 3: some level of success at. And yeah, there's a million
Speaker 3: different things I can tell you, So maybe we'll unpack
Speaker 3: that as we go.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent will take us a little bit on
Speaker 2: the journey. So you just said you've just you know,
Speaker 2: gone through your twenty first year of entrepreneurship, which is incredible,
Speaker 2: what a ride. Can you tell us a little bit
Speaker 2: about how your journey has really evolved from the beginning
Speaker 2: two now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so massive evolution. And I think the lesson for
Speaker 3: anyone listening is that a career trajectory doesn't necessarily have
Speaker 3: to be formulaic and In fact, sometimes it's only looking
Speaker 3: back retrospectively that everything makes sense, because if I look
Speaker 3: at mine in a sequential order, it really makes no
Speaker 3: sense at all, except that actually everything is perfect in
Speaker 3: terms of how I arrived at where I am today.
Speaker 3: So before I launched my business, which was the twenty
Speaker 3: second of October two thousand and one, I was working
Speaker 3: in conference and event management, and from there I love
Speaker 3: the sponsorship aspect. So often we kind of go your
Speaker 3: land somewhere and you go, which is the piece that
Speaker 3: I love of this. So I loved doing deals negotiating,
Speaker 3: and I ended up working for a company which was
Speaker 3: the last company worked for that wasn't my own, doing
Speaker 3: sponsorship for so Dislay and the Wiggles and Barring Humphreys,
Speaker 3: and it was heaps of fun. And so in two
Speaker 3: thousand and one I started my own business. But that
Speaker 3: was kind of back before anyone was talking about entrepreneurship.
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about podcasts or networking or mentors.
Speaker 3: So it was really kind of, you know, just foundational
Speaker 3: and rudimentary, and yeah, I didn't know definitely what I
Speaker 3: knew now or have access to what we all fortunately
Speaker 3: have access to these days. So I left the agency
Speaker 3: because I was a little bossy pants, and my boss
Speaker 3: at the time very kindly said, maybe you'd be better
Speaker 3: off doing your own thing. So I started a kind
Speaker 3: of sponsorship slash marketing agency. And what I'm going to
Speaker 3: say next is kind of important for anyone you know
Speaker 3: starting out, is that really for eleven years, I then
Speaker 3: over serviced, undercharged was everything to everyone didn't have systems
Speaker 3: and processes in place, and because I wasn't plugged into
Speaker 3: the things that I said before, networks, mentors, podcasts, education,
Speaker 3: So that was like a really long journey. I mean,
Speaker 3: I had a lot of fun, I made a lot
Speaker 3: of mistakes. I ended up having a very profitable business.
Speaker 3: And then in two thousand and twelve, I was surrounded
Speaker 3: by so many entrepreneurs by then and amazing innovative thinkers
Speaker 3: and thought leaders and game changes. But I was frustrated,
Speaker 3: and frustration can be a really great space from which
Speaker 3: to start a business or really step into your purpose,
Speaker 3: which I did in twenty twelve. Absolutely. So I decided
Speaker 3: that there were so many amazing stories being told in
Speaker 3: the media of different businesses and entrepreneurs and leaders, but
Speaker 3: often it was only the surface level that was being told.
Speaker 3: It was kind of like, you know, this person is
Speaker 3: successful because of blah, and so we were just reading
Speaker 3: about that. But I was always left scratching my head
Speaker 3: and going, but how about how? Why? But why? Like
Speaker 3: how did they come up with the funding to do that?
Speaker 3: What's their supply chain? Like? Where do they get that made?
Speaker 3: You know? How are they finding distributors? How are they
Speaker 3: marketing this? Like? So I was always scratching my head,
Speaker 3: and I found that these conversations were being had off
Speaker 3: and behind closed doors and often very sort of hush hush,
Speaker 3: we won't talk about money, we won't give away our suppliers,
Speaker 3: you know. And so I decided in twenty twelve to
Speaker 3: create a magazine, which I launched in February twenty thirteen
Speaker 3: called Collective Hub, which was all about, you know, the
Speaker 3: story behind the story, real, raw, attainable, relatable and you know,
Speaker 3: it's a very well documented story that I had never
Speaker 3: worked in media, I'd never worked in magazines, and I
Speaker 3: entered a highly saturated market. There were about five and
Speaker 3: a half thousand print mags in a Styustralia alone at
Speaker 3: the time, but in eighteen months the print magazine was
Speaker 3: in thirty seven countries, and I had people like an
Speaker 3: A Winter flying me to New York to meet with her.
Speaker 3: And so after eleven years, almost twelve years of kind
Speaker 3: of you know, bumbling along, finally something really worked. And
Speaker 3: so over the course of the following five years I
Speaker 3: did fifty four issues. It exploited. It was enormous. I
Speaker 3: was the only person in Australia to have Jamie Oliver
Speaker 3: on a cover when he flew to Australia. I've shared
Speaker 3: a stage now five times with Sir Richard Branson and
Speaker 3: we're good friends and like, it really was amazing until
Speaker 3: it wasn't so. Two thousand and eighteen, I was hemorrhaging cash.
Speaker 3: I'd grown too quickly again, didn't have the right systems
Speaker 3: and processes in place. It was now a very large,
Speaker 3: very global business with a lot of people working for me,
Speaker 3: and so I made the courageous decision after fifty four
Speaker 3: issues to close the print magaz and from then I
Speaker 3: basically kind of sat for a while and went, Okay,
Speaker 3: I now have the confidence, the resilience, the tenacity, the
Speaker 3: self belief to know that I can do this again.
Speaker 3: But sometimes we have to break something in order to
Speaker 3: truly remake it. And so for the last couple of
Speaker 3: years I've been producing well, we've done over sixty books, journals,
Speaker 3: dated products, affirmation cards and yeah, and it's we now have.
Speaker 3: I now have a much bigger, much more sustainable, much
Speaker 3: more global profitable business than I had back then. And
Speaker 3: we've just bought out issue fifty five of the print bag.
Speaker 3: So even though I closed it for four years, I'll
Speaker 3: probably now do one issue a year, but as a
Speaker 3: chunky coffee table book or look as we're calling it.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of the snapshot of twenty one years.
Speaker 2: That is incredible. And I think what I love most
Speaker 2: about you and what you do and all your books is,
Speaker 2: like you said, just how honest, real and raw you are,
Speaker 2: Like you just completely tell us how it is, and
Speaker 2: it is sometimes it feels like, especially with entrepreneurship, it's
Speaker 2: like this secret. It's like everyone has this you know,
Speaker 2: secret about what they're doing and no one wants to
Speaker 2: tell anyone. So I just love how you completely open
Speaker 2: it up, give us everything. And then you're also just
Speaker 2: so honest about you know, learning your lessons, evolving, realizing
Speaker 2: that something that worked really well for a certain amount
Speaker 2: of time, you know, then didn't and you had to
Speaker 2: pivot and you had to evolve, and just you know,
Speaker 2: taking that being like, yes, this is it.
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely lots of lessons And I think one of
Speaker 3: the biggest learnings in all those years is that and
Speaker 3: this takes a long time to learn. It's really in
Speaker 3: my experience, the times of hardship and adversity, whilst often
Speaker 3: excruciating at the time, they are the points if I
Speaker 3: can lean into them, where the most growth comes, and
Speaker 3: you know, where the evolution and the ability to pivot,
Speaker 3: the word of like twenty twenty twenty twenty one come.
Speaker 3: So I would say to anyone you know in life,
Speaker 3: I mean I've been through divorce, my dad has died,
Speaker 3: you know, I've been through a lot of excruciating, very difficult,
Speaker 3: tumultuous times in both my personal life and in my
Speaker 3: business life. And it's those times if we can really
Speaker 3: lean in and go, Okay, what am I learning? What
Speaker 3: is the lesson? You know, this is happening for me
Speaker 3: as opposed to this is happening to me and trying
Speaker 3: to reframe our mindset, then we have the ability to
Speaker 3: you know, somehow move through and rise up.
Speaker 2: That I love that so much, So, Lisa, before we
Speaker 2: get into entrepreneurship and talking about your new amazing book,
Speaker 2: this is just something that I love chatting to you know,
Speaker 2: successful people, and especially because I know that you're just
Speaker 2: going to give us the most honest answer. How much
Speaker 2: would you say of your you know, routines and rituals
Speaker 2: really have led to your success, And could you give
Speaker 2: us an insight into you know, maybe your ideal routine,
Speaker 2: like you can do your morning routine, your routine to
Speaker 2: you know, get back into it to find motivation, whatever
Speaker 2: you want to chat about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's such a good question because I think
Speaker 3: it's almost counterintuitive to what we expect being an entrepreneur,
Speaker 3: is right, because we largely start with the notion of
Speaker 3: I'm going to start my own business for freedom and choice.
Speaker 3: But in my experience, one hundred percent, we need routines, rituals,
Speaker 3: and disciplines in able to be the biggest, best version
Speaker 3: of ourselves. So for me, because I'm leading such a
Speaker 3: kind of large life across multiple time zones and you know,
Speaker 3: traveling a lot, so it's really imperative to me that
Speaker 3: I'm able to you know, have some structure and feel
Speaker 3: kind of centered and grounded. So for me, my morning
Speaker 3: really or my day is divided into two. And I
Speaker 3: always say to people, you know, work out what works
Speaker 3: for you, and you know, listen to the similarity. It
Speaker 3: is not the differences. But for me, I basically pre
Speaker 3: ten am it's about me. So it's about I do
Speaker 3: some meditation, I always do some training, so exercise in
Speaker 3: the morning. I have a personal trainer, or I go
Speaker 3: to a yoga class, or I'll do a walk, and
Speaker 3: I'll do some journaling and I will do something nutrition Also,
Speaker 3: I'll always have a green smoothie and I'll listen to
Speaker 3: a podcast. So pre ten am is really for me
Speaker 3: all about filling my mind, my body, my spirit and
Speaker 3: kind of really taking all of that in. Now, that
Speaker 3: doesn't work for everyone. You know, people have kids, they
Speaker 3: need to take them to school, they have other responsibilities.
Speaker 3: They might have an actual job where they need to
Speaker 3: turn up at eight o'clock in the morning or whatever
Speaker 3: it is. But for me, I kind of go, okay,
Speaker 3: that's my time when I'm you know, searching within, I'm
Speaker 3: filling my own cup and from there it's like game on.
Speaker 3: From ten am, it's like whatever the world needs of me.
Speaker 3: So I'm responding, reacting to emails, my team, I'm having meetings,
Speaker 3: I'm doing podcasts, I'm doing all the things required of
Speaker 3: me during the day. But I absolutely, unequivocally use the
Speaker 3: morning to fill my cup and to fill myself up.
Speaker 2: It's so important and I love that you, you know,
Speaker 2: touched on as much as you know. We want to
Speaker 2: be entrepreneurs so we can be on our own time
Speaker 2: time and do what we want when we want. I
Speaker 2: am the exact say where if I don't have, you know,
Speaker 2: a routine or ritual that really kind of steps me up,
Speaker 2: fills up my cup. I just noticed the day just
Speaker 2: goes completely different compared to when I'm in that and
Speaker 2: I am I'm a new mum. So the morning routine
Speaker 2: used to be much like you to ten am, and
Speaker 2: oh my god, I relished in it. Now I miss
Speaker 2: it so much. But it's a little bit different, but
Speaker 2: honestly much the same. And it's just about realizing that,
Speaker 2: you know, we go through seasons where it does change
Speaker 2: and you have to do different things. But like for
Speaker 2: me personally, a big ritual is like at least half
Speaker 2: an hour to an hour in the morning and the
Speaker 2: night that is for me filling up my cup. It's just, oh,
Speaker 2: it's just such a game changer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, you know, it's really important because
Speaker 3: and I have certainly been guilty of this, particularly having
Speaker 3: your own business. You know, you think, oh, I've just
Speaker 3: got to work all the time, and there's always something
Speaker 3: to be done, and you know, because there is a lot,
Speaker 3: and often, particularly when you're starting out, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: am I ideating? Am I building the product? Am I
Speaker 3: trying to work out more distributors? Am I trying to
Speaker 3: sell more? Am I trying to come up with new
Speaker 3: marketing plans? You know? Should I be posting on Instagram
Speaker 3: or Twitter or LinkedIn or TikTok. If I'm on Instagram,
Speaker 3: should I be making a real or a static post
Speaker 3: or a story? Like? It can be a lot, right,
Speaker 3: And so the mistake we often make is we think
Speaker 3: I just need to be busy, I just need to
Speaker 3: keep going, I need to be frenetic, I need to
Speaker 3: do all of it. But actually I find it is
Speaker 3: only when we allow ourselves the time and space to
Speaker 3: breathe and stop that that's when my good ideas come,
Speaker 3: or that's when I regain that sense of calm and composure,
Speaker 3: and I feel grounded and centered and only from that
Speaker 3: space can I actually do the big things.
Speaker 2: And do them well one hundred percent. Well, let's start
Speaker 2: talking about well, you know, we are talking about entrepreneurship,
Speaker 2: but I really want to get into more about that
Speaker 2: because I recently just read your book Start Up to
Speaker 2: Scale Up, and it was incredible. Not only is it
Speaker 2: like the most beautiful, you know, business book it is
Speaker 2: you know, it very much looks like a coffee table book,
Speaker 2: and I know that to your style it is so beautiful,
Speaker 2: but everything inside it just like I loved reading it.
Speaker 2: I actually just read it. I've just went to holidays
Speaker 2: for a week in Fiji and I read it on
Speaker 2: holidays and it just it was such an amazing experience.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something you do so well, you know,
Speaker 2: with everything you do. It is such an experience, and
Speaker 2: it is the whole thing where I'm getting, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm getting the value, I'm getting, the business ideas, I'm
Speaker 2: getting all that. Plus it comes in a way that
Speaker 2: it's very aesthetically pleasing. Please this is my eyes, and
Speaker 2: I feel like you just you encompass that so well.
Speaker 2: I would love to know what is like a simple
Speaker 2: and actionable I guess like tip or just suggestion from
Speaker 2: you to turn an idea into a business. And I'm
Speaker 2: interested in this just because I feel like you very
Speaker 2: much break the boundaries where you're not really listening, you
Speaker 2: know what everyone else is doing. Much like you said
Speaker 2: when you started your print company, like a lot of
Speaker 2: people said, you know, print was dead, and then you
Speaker 2: completely prove them wrong. So I would love to hear
Speaker 2: your opinion on turning an idea into a business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean and thank you for your beautiful
Speaker 3: words about startup to scale up. I feel like, oh gosh,
Speaker 3: I've written I think over body books now, but that's
Speaker 3: probably one of the most useful because it's almost like
Speaker 3: I've put every single thing that I've learned over the
Speaker 3: last twenty one years into that book, from how to
Speaker 3: ida through right through to how to sort of scale
Speaker 3: a business. In terms of starting, I always say, find
Speaker 3: a problem and you would know from the book. I
Speaker 3: kind of had a different take on that. I'm like,
Speaker 3: rather than carry around an ideas book, carry around a
Speaker 3: problems book, because so often what becomes a startup idea
Speaker 3: is it often comes from a problem that we've encountered.
Speaker 3: And in fact, pretty much all of my businesses or
Speaker 3: all of the products that I produce, come from a problem.
Speaker 3: So for example, I wrote my first book in two
Speaker 3: thousand and four and it was called Happiness Is. And
Speaker 3: the reason I wrote that was at the time, I
Speaker 3: was so incredibly unhappy and I was holding myself back
Speaker 3: and I was self sabotaging. So I was right, right,
Speaker 3: I'm going to solve this. And when I put that
Speaker 3: book out, I realized that so many other people, you know,
Speaker 3: felt the same same. With the magazine, I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm so frustrated, like why isn't there media telling the
Speaker 3: story behind the story and you know, what's raw and
Speaker 3: real and all of that kind of thing. So again
Speaker 3: I identified a problem or a gap in the market,
Speaker 3: and therefore it worked. And that can be also as
Speaker 3: simple as you just said, you're a new mum. If
Speaker 3: you're you know, putting nappies on your baby, that you
Speaker 3: realize that they're I don't know, rubbing them the wrong way,
Speaker 3: or they don't fit properly or something like that, you
Speaker 3: can identify a problem. And I think often when we
Speaker 3: identify it, it means that other people are also experiencing that.
Speaker 3: So I highly encourage anyone to kind of carry around
Speaker 3: a problems book and just find, you know, what is lacking,
Speaker 3: what's annoying me, what am I frustrated with? Where do
Speaker 3: I find there's a gap in the market? What do
Speaker 3: I think could be done better? So that's number one.
Speaker 3: Number two would be then you need to feel into
Speaker 3: Does this excite me, juice me up, make me feel alive?
Speaker 3: Do I want to jump out of bed for this?
Speaker 3: You know? Is this a problem that I want to solve?
Speaker 3: Because there's plenty of problems out there, and particularly as
Speaker 3: a well seasoned entrepreneur, I see things everywhere across every industry,
Speaker 3: whether I'm sitting in a coffee shop and something's annoying me,
Speaker 3: or I see I buy, you know, a piece of
Speaker 3: clothing and something frustrates me. But those things don't necessarily
Speaker 3: excite me. So the problem might exist, But if it
Speaker 3: doesn't excite me, then it's not something that I'm personally
Speaker 3: going to tackle. So yeah, number one, identify problems. Number
Speaker 3: two does it really align with you? Does it make
Speaker 3: your soul feel alive and on fire? And number three
Speaker 3: is there some kind of commercial opportunity? I mean that
Speaker 3: is imperative, and whilst I couldn't care less about money
Speaker 3: for money's sake, I do care about it because it
Speaker 3: helps us to, you know, grow a sustainable business. So
Speaker 3: then you need to think about, well, Okay, I see
Speaker 3: a problem this idea, but are there people willing to
Speaker 3: buy it? And if the answer to number one was
Speaker 3: as a problem, then more often than not, there is
Speaker 3: probably an audience and a market ready to buy it.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of what I do. Identify problems and
Speaker 3: make sure that they aligned with my kind of personal
Speaker 3: values and where I want to be in the world.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And something I'd love for you to
Speaker 2: touch on just because, first of all, I think, like,
Speaker 2: that's incredible the way that you just explained that. What
Speaker 2: would you say in regards to people who they think, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I have this amazing idea and I'm really
Speaker 2: passionate about it, but it is kind of going again,
Speaker 2: what everyone else is doing. What would you say to
Speaker 2: that person?
Speaker 3: I think there's a couple of things I would say there.
Speaker 3: One is almost the opposite of what you just said.
Speaker 3: A lot of people are afraid to go into a
Speaker 3: highly saturated market, so a lot of people will kind
Speaker 3: of go, oh, I'm not going to do something in
Speaker 3: print because there's already in my case, as I explained,
Speaker 3: five and a half thousand print magazines sitting in the
Speaker 3: Australian market, or you know, it could be milk or
Speaker 3: toilet paper. People might shy away from things that are
Speaker 3: already saturated or you know, hotels or uber or all
Speaker 3: sorts of things, right, and so in that case, it's
Speaker 3: like often with an existing highly saturated market where there's
Speaker 3: a lot of competitors and a lot of noise, that
Speaker 3: can be actually a great place to start because it
Speaker 3: means that there is a ready market. You've just got
Speaker 3: to be able to do something better and in your
Speaker 3: own unique way. And the other side of it, which
Speaker 3: I think is your question, is around you know what
Speaker 3: if other people are saying no, don't do that, is
Speaker 3: that what you were asking?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So in that case, I think again, you've
Speaker 3: got to be really careful about who you listen to.
Speaker 3: So I'm always is very very careful, and I cash
Speaker 3: questions to people and I ask for very specific feedback.
Speaker 3: So there's something called the distalt theory, and it's basically
Speaker 3: around you know that I will say to people, you know,
Speaker 3: do you have particular experience with this problem? Do you
Speaker 3: understand you know what I'm talking about, because otherwise people
Speaker 3: will just put their own kind of you know, theories
Speaker 3: or their own experiences onto it, which aren't necessarily applicable
Speaker 3: to your situation, if that makes sense. So I'm very
Speaker 3: very careful about the feedback that I ask for because
Speaker 3: there will be a lot of people who will be
Speaker 3: very quick to say, oh no, don't do that, that's
Speaker 3: a really silly idea. So you've got to just, you know,
Speaker 3: if it's something that you feel really passionate about, if
Speaker 3: it's a problem that you've experienced, then more likely you're
Speaker 3: going to have some kind of success because you're passionate
Speaker 3: about it. So try and listen less and less to
Speaker 3: other people's opinions.
Speaker 2: Thank you for Shane. Yeah, and I guess even moving
Speaker 2: on to that, so what would your advice be for
Speaker 2: someone who currently is, you know, they're doing their side hustle.
Speaker 2: Their business has shown potential, it's you know, maybe it's
Speaker 2: not profiting, but it really needs that full time capacity.
Speaker 2: What would you say to that person who does want
Speaker 2: to transition into doing their side hustle full time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so side hustle is great, and I think you know,
Speaker 3: more and more people now are having side hustles and
Speaker 3: it is a brilliant way to test an idea, test
Speaker 3: the market whilst you're still you know, working for someone
Speaker 3: else and earning money generally, so or you might be
Speaker 3: stay at home and you're doing you know, side hustle
Speaker 3: on the side, or there's a variety of different ways
Speaker 3: that people can start to do a side hustle. A
Speaker 3: side hustle is great because you're testing and iterating generally
Speaker 3: in a smaller fashion. So I would say the time
Speaker 3: to jump and make it a full time gig is
Speaker 3: don't wait for everything to be perfect, but it is
Speaker 3: good to actually, you know, test the market. And I
Speaker 3: talk a lot about this in startup to scale up,
Speaker 3: as you will know, I talk a lot about you know,
Speaker 3: minimum order quantities in the case of products or minimum
Speaker 3: viable products, and I go into a lot of detail
Speaker 3: around you know, how you test and how you ensure
Speaker 3: that you're you know, mitigating risk. But I think if
Speaker 3: someone started something, if it's a I don't know, service
Speaker 3: based business and you've tried to get a couple of
Speaker 3: clients and people are happy to pay, and you haven't
Speaker 3: had to outlay a lot of money, then you can
Speaker 3: kind of go, okay, I've tested that, I know there
Speaker 3: are people there, so you know, I can probably take
Speaker 3: the leap because I've tested it. Products are slightly harder
Speaker 3: because often, you know, you have to produce a certain
Speaker 3: amount of widgets to meet you know, printer or factory
Speaker 3: or supplier requirements. But again, if you can try to
Speaker 3: produce initially you know, the minimum order that is possible
Speaker 3: at the least possible cost and test the market, then
Speaker 3: that could be a side hustle. Once people start buying
Speaker 3: and you think, okay, I've kind of got proof of concept,
Speaker 3: then again it might be time to actually, you know,
Speaker 3: take the leap. I think it's really important to always have,
Speaker 3: if you can, some kind of cash reserve because nothing
Speaker 3: is fail safe, and as we've seen, particularly in the
Speaker 3: last couple of years, there are often a lot of
Speaker 3: external factors at play that are beyond our control, which
Speaker 3: could be you know, economic uncertainty due to you know,
Speaker 3: wars or pandemics or a number of other things, and
Speaker 3: so you know, we need to really ask ourselves the question,
Speaker 3: what am I prepared to lose and you know what
Speaker 3: is my backup plan? Because I can tell you right
Speaker 3: now in Australia, for example, even though we've got a
Speaker 3: pretty successful e commerce business now, the e commerce side
Speaker 3: of things in the last three months, probably doing about
Speaker 3: a tenth of our revenue on a daily basis at
Speaker 3: the moment, and we've just launched into the US and
Speaker 3: that is like flying. But you know, there are certain
Speaker 3: things that come into play that are beyond that control.
Speaker 3: So you've really got to kind of set up. Okay,
Speaker 3: am I ready to make this leap? You know what
Speaker 3: resources to do I have behind me, how much am
Speaker 3: I prepared to lose? And then just go for it.
Speaker 3: You know, there's never going to be an exact right time.
Speaker 3: But I think the reason that I've written Startup to
Speaker 3: Scale Up is very much so that I can give
Speaker 3: people a you know, step by step, this is exactly
Speaker 3: what to do. These are the checklists, these are the plans,
Speaker 3: so that hopefully people can you know, take some of
Speaker 3: my experience and lessons learned over the years.
Speaker 2: And the book is just so incredible with so much
Speaker 2: information and you through like you really go so in depth.
Speaker 2: I very much encourage anyone listening to check it out,
Speaker 2: because it just yeah, it goes into everything, into so
Speaker 2: much detail. Something I wanted to ask you is, what
Speaker 2: do you think are characteristics that a successful entrepreneur has
Speaker 2: to possess?
Speaker 3: Number one is self belief, And you know that takes
Speaker 3: or can take a long time to build up because
Speaker 3: you know, often when you start out, you think, oh gosh,
Speaker 3: can I do this? Imposter syndrome might creep in. You know,
Speaker 3: you might try and self sabotage, you know, fear of
Speaker 3: am I not good enough? Do I not have enough experience?
Speaker 3: So it's really really important to you know, get strong
Speaker 3: and to get a you know, almost unshakable self belief.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that is absolutely number one. And
Speaker 3: what kind of goes hand in hand with that is
Speaker 3: resilience and tenacity, because what I know for sure is,
Speaker 3: you know, even still twenty one years in, people will
Speaker 3: you know, slab a door in my face, or they
Speaker 3: won't they won't take a phone call, or they won't
Speaker 3: buy a product. And it can be really frustrating sometimes
Speaker 3: you think, but wait, this is like the perfect fit
Speaker 3: for your customers or your audience, Like how can you
Speaker 3: not see this? But still you know, even though now
Speaker 3: I have a pretty established brand and you know, some
Speaker 3: great product market fit, sometimes people will be like, nuts,
Speaker 3: doesn't work for us. So you've got to build up
Speaker 3: that resilience muscle and that tenacity and kind of talk
Speaker 3: a lot about duality. You've got to build you know, resilience,
Speaker 3: but you've also got to be able to maintain a
Speaker 3: certain level of vulnerability and you know, empathy and kindness
Speaker 3: and humanness, and you know, people don't often always get
Speaker 3: that right, particularly in you know, the corporate world. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of still unfortunately, you know, fist banging people
Speaker 3: who are all about ego and hard shells and I'm
Speaker 3: just gonna like win it all costs and you've got
Speaker 3: to have a certain amount of that and a certain
Speaker 3: amount of grit. But I really believe very very strongly
Speaker 3: that you've got to be able to maintain that human side,
Speaker 3: that vulnerability, that empathy, that compassion, that ability to you know,
Speaker 3: have communication skills, and so they're all really important attributes.
Speaker 2: I think I love that you touched on those human
Speaker 2: skills because I feel like I've asked quite a little
Speaker 2: people this question and no one has like touch on that.
Speaker 2: But that's so true. Something else that you kind of
Speaker 2: spoke about at the start is you explained that you know,
Speaker 2: you and I remember reading this in the book too,
Speaker 2: that like everything happens for reasons, and your failures always
Speaker 2: lead you to where you're meant to go. And I
Speaker 2: love that. It's so it's similar to you know my
Speaker 2: favorite quote of like everything happens for a reason. Could
Speaker 2: you possibly tell us about an example of this and
Speaker 2: how a failure or something that you didn't quite like
Speaker 2: at the time really set you on this new path
Speaker 2: that turned out to be, you know, better than you
Speaker 2: could have imagined.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's so many there's I mean, I
Speaker 3: could give you millions of examples, big and small, but
Speaker 3: I mean probably the biggest, like failure which didn't end
Speaker 3: up being a failure. But you know, when I grew
Speaker 3: Collective Hub from twenty thirteen until twenty eighteen, and you know,
Speaker 3: it was at its peak, like it was the hottest
Speaker 3: thing on everyone's lips. You know, I was invited to
Speaker 3: the greatest parties. As I said, you know, Anna Winter
Speaker 3: invited me to go meet with her in New York.
Speaker 3: I've spent time on Richard Branson's private Island Necker and
Speaker 3: make peace like several times, and like everything was amazing
Speaker 3: for five years, but I did not have the right
Speaker 3: foundations in place. So even though this brand was so
Speaker 3: hot and growing, I hadn't set up the right systems
Speaker 3: and processes and I hadn't really tapped into what my
Speaker 3: strengths were. So I am a great founder, and I'm
Speaker 3: a great visionary, and I'm a great leader, and I
Speaker 3: see things before they exist. I'm a great negotiator. I'm
Speaker 3: not necessarily great at the detail and the operational side
Speaker 3: of it and the data. So in a business, you
Speaker 3: need to have both. You need to have big ideas
Speaker 3: people and big visionaries, but you also need to have
Speaker 3: data orientated detail implementers. And I didn't have the right
Speaker 3: people like that alongside me, and I didn't have the
Speaker 3: right systems and processes. So what happened was I had
Speaker 3: to close the print magazine, which was my baby and
Speaker 3: you know, the love of my life and was at
Speaker 3: the center of my entire business. So that was gut
Speaker 3: wrenching and heartbreaking and horrible, but it was also the
Speaker 3: greatest thing to ever happen, because you don't know what
Speaker 3: you don't know, and I was suddenly sitting at the
Speaker 3: helm of a very big global business across multiple revenue streams,
Speaker 3: across thirty seven different countries. But it wasn't until I
Speaker 3: got there that I realized, oh my gosh, I need
Speaker 3: to strip this back. I need to cut the guts
Speaker 3: out of it in order to break it to remake it.
Speaker 3: So I did that. And it's only through doing that
Speaker 3: and that kind of almost epic failure and you know,
Speaker 3: heart wrenching stuff, that I actually was able to build
Speaker 3: or rebuild a really strong, really great global business with
Speaker 3: really solid foundations that is now pretty unshakable and pretty
Speaker 3: future proofed. So I had to go to the edge
Speaker 3: of that uncomfortability in order to be really really strong
Speaker 3: and to be able to move forward. And the same
Speaker 3: quld be said for a million things. You know, I
Speaker 3: was married, wasn't the right marriage, you know that ended
Speaker 3: Now have been with my fiance for six years, you know, amazing.
Speaker 3: So I think everything at the time, personal or business wise,
Speaker 3: that is difficult, excruciating, horrendous. You know, in time, even
Speaker 3: though we may not be able to see it when
Speaker 3: it's happening and when we're in the midst of it,
Speaker 3: in time, Actually, these things do generally happen for a reason.
Speaker 3: And now that I've had so much crap happened to
Speaker 3: me in life, generally, even when I'm in the midst
Speaker 3: of it, I can I kind of have this inner
Speaker 3: knowing of Okay, I've just got to move through this.
Speaker 3: It is going to be better at the other side.
Speaker 3: What other lessons? What is this teaching me? How can
Speaker 3: I use this hard time to springboard me into something
Speaker 3: much more powerful? And how can I rise up and
Speaker 3: be the next best version of me?
Speaker 2: I am so intrigued now. So you just chatted about
Speaker 2: how you realize that, you know, the company grew so
Speaker 2: fast that you didn't have the systems and the processes,
Speaker 2: and I guess the foundations. And that's actually something I'm
Speaker 2: going through at the moment within my business, is like
Speaker 2: really cementing the foundation so we can scale, you know,
Speaker 2: later on. And that's why my favorite part of your
Speaker 2: book was the scale section. But I'd love to know. So,
Speaker 2: like you said, you're a person who that sort of
Speaker 2: side of things isn't isn't your vibe, isn't your zone
Speaker 2: a genius? What did you then do to make sure
Speaker 2: you do have the system and processes and really really
Speaker 2: kind of like build that foundation for the business going forward.
Speaker 3: So everything now and some people are wits at this,
Speaker 3: but everything is data. I mean there is so even
Speaker 3: though I'm a creative, I come up with the ideas
Speaker 3: for every single product that we do across the business.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of the one who you know comes up
Speaker 3: with all the ideas, you know, like top level, and
Speaker 3: I don't love the data. I have people around me
Speaker 3: now that every single day I'm looking at data. So
Speaker 3: every single day I have a CFO. It's a chief
Speaker 3: financial officer, but that could be a bookkeeper for other people,
Speaker 3: or it could be that you become you know, comfortable
Speaker 3: with using zero or moyob or one of the other programs.
Speaker 3: But every single day I'm looking at spreadsheets. I'm looking
Speaker 3: at profit and loss. I'm looking at our cash flow
Speaker 3: really important. I'm looking at break evens. I'm looking at
Speaker 3: payables and receivables. I'm looking at kind of you know,
Speaker 3: future projections for different products. And there is not a
Speaker 3: day that goes by where I'm not looking at financial reports.
Speaker 3: Because my business is you know big. Now We've done
Speaker 3: i don't know, close to sixty products in the last
Speaker 3: probably eighteen months, and every single time I hit print
Speaker 3: on a product, it costs me at least probably sixty
Speaker 3: sixty five thousand dollars, so and then we're doing multiple reprints,
Speaker 3: so I've got a lot of money moving in and
Speaker 3: out across a lot of different countries and markets and
Speaker 3: distribution channels. So I've got to look at that all day,
Speaker 3: every day. And I also look at numbers around social media.
Speaker 3: So we have I think seventeen different social media channels.
Speaker 3: So I'm constantly looking at data in terms of what
Speaker 3: is our engagement, like, you know, what's the upshot? Because
Speaker 3: I've got to measure everything. Everything's input and output. So
Speaker 3: my team, my social media team is you know, a
Speaker 3: content creator, graphic designer, someone who uploads and schedules everything
Speaker 3: and responds. And then I've got, you know, an ads person.
Speaker 3: So I've constantly got to be looking at, well, if
Speaker 3: I'm spending x amount on salaries and freelancers, what is
Speaker 3: the engagement and also what is the revenue that we
Speaker 3: are deriving specifically from organic social media and paid social media.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking at those reports all the time, and
Speaker 3: then I'm looking at all sorts of other things So for example,
Speaker 3: at the moment, we're doing four trade fairs in five
Speaker 3: weeks in the US. We're doing Atlanta, Vegas, LA, and
Speaker 3: New York. So every day at the moment, I'm looking
Speaker 3: at data because it's a relatively new market for us
Speaker 3: on a large scale, so I'm looking at what are
Speaker 3: we selling, you know, on a daily basis. So we're
Speaker 3: doing twenty grand a day across what skews like of
Speaker 3: our sixty plus products, what's selling well? Because I need
Speaker 3: to look at that data to inform what's my next
Speaker 3: print run going to be? How quickly do I need
Speaker 3: to do that. So what I would say about scale
Speaker 3: is data and numbers become everything. And even though it's
Speaker 3: definitely not my unique strength, I absolutely love data and
Speaker 3: I'm into my with data every single day because I
Speaker 3: cannot make creative decisions unless I know what's going on
Speaker 3: with all of my numbers. So that's what I would
Speaker 3: say about scale. It's different when you're starting out to
Speaker 3: a degree you don't have to necessarily watch everything quite
Speaker 3: so closely. But I'm literally moving hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 3: dollars every single day, so I've got to make sure
Speaker 3: that every single position in the company, every single piece
Speaker 3: of input is you know, maximizing the returns and the output.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting and something that you just touched on
Speaker 2: that I guess I'm also very intrigued with, and I
Speaker 2: you know, would be my second last question. But so
Speaker 2: you've got you know, you said over sixty products, which
Speaker 2: is just incredible. What does the marketing side look like?
Speaker 2: Because I could just imagine doing that many products in
Speaker 2: such a small amount of time. Do you have much
Speaker 2: to do with the marketing? What is your sort of
Speaker 2: ideal there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so in any business, there's kind of almost two sides.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, particularly in product based businesses, it's
Speaker 3: like you've got to come up with the product and
Speaker 3: then and a lot of people think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: that's the hard bit. It's almost the marketing and the
Speaker 3: sales and the distribution and the logistics are you know,
Speaker 3: almost bigger than that, because once you have a landed product,
Speaker 3: you've got to make sure that you've got the you know,
Speaker 3: that that is all flowing through. So, yes, I have
Speaker 3: a lot to do with the marketing. So the marketing
Speaker 3: works for us, and I go into a lot more
Speaker 3: detail in startup to scale, but it's basically what I
Speaker 3: call an ecosystem. So our marketing consists of a number
Speaker 3: of different things. So part of it is influencer marketing,
Speaker 3: where we will send out you know, eighty to two
Speaker 3: hundred products probably every two weeks, so we're gifting a
Speaker 3: lot of products to get into the hands of the
Speaker 3: right people. Then we have all of our organic so
Speaker 3: we're creating you know, constantly organic content, be it reals
Speaker 3: or static posts or whatever it is, across all of
Speaker 3: our social media channels. And we have paid socials, so
Speaker 3: we spend a lot of money on Facebook advertising to
Speaker 3: target and retarget the right people. We do trade fairs,
Speaker 3: so at the moment, as I said, we're doing Atlanta, Vegas, La,
Speaker 3: New York in the US in two days. We're doing
Speaker 3: Life in Style in Melbourne, and Australia. We're doing one
Speaker 3: in New Zealand in a couple of months. So trade
Speaker 3: fairs is another big part of it. I do a
Speaker 3: lot of speaking gigs, you know, podcast pr so there's
Speaker 3: a whole kind of ecosystem. And again for anyone listening
Speaker 3: who's like, oh my gosh, that so much, where do
Speaker 3: I start. It's really about picking you know, one or
Speaker 3: two things off and then measuring again the input versus
Speaker 3: the output, so everything, This is where the data comes in.
Speaker 3: You know, if we're doing organic social media, which still
Speaker 3: takes you know, resources, what are we actually selling? What's
Speaker 3: the engagement? What's the brand uplift? Like how we're measuring that?
Speaker 3: If it's the trade fairs, you know, that's a very
Speaker 3: costly exercise. I'm going to New York next week to
Speaker 3: go to the New York Trade Fair. You know that
Speaker 3: costs me to get on a plane, stay in a hotel,
Speaker 3: have the booth, et cetera, et cetera. So again, what
Speaker 3: do we think we can do? So everything? I would
Speaker 3: really encourage people to look at what's the input, what's
Speaker 3: the output? Like, what effort are you putting in for
Speaker 3: what returns? Really important?
Speaker 2: Get intimate with your data.
Speaker 3: Yes, so important, and it's so so boring, but I
Speaker 3: cannot express how important it is. And that is the
Speaker 3: only way that I can scale without sinking up.
Speaker 2: No, I love it. I love it so much. It's
Speaker 2: been such like a good reality check to me. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I'm much like you where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I just love the creative side. And yeah, so no,
Speaker 2: I am with you on that, and it's it's such
Speaker 2: great advice. Okay, so at least on my last question
Speaker 2: and then I will let you go. I know you
Speaker 2: are a busy, busy lady. But something that I absolutely
Speaker 2: loved in the book, and I think I loved it
Speaker 2: because I probably need to implement it the most. But
Speaker 2: you explain exactly something that you chat about is, you know,
Speaker 2: finding your purpose in the book, and you talk about
Speaker 2: having a business purpose plus a purpose personal purpose, and
Speaker 2: I personally am someone who you know, my business has
Speaker 2: so much purpose and it just lights me up that
Speaker 2: I often find, you know, I often find that I
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of personal you know, purpose because
Speaker 2: I'm so intertwined and get so much purpose out of
Speaker 2: my business. But I would love if you can kind
Speaker 2: of explain the difference between these. Just chat a little
Speaker 2: bit further about what you mean by this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. And and I went one hundred percent
Speaker 3: relate to you. I mean, for so many years because
Speaker 3: I love business so much, I was like, no, this
Speaker 3: is my bapose like this is everything. And it's probably
Speaker 3: really only the last two or three years where I've
Speaker 3: really gone, Okay, I need to really align with my
Speaker 3: personal purpose as well. And I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3: When I met my fiance, he was like, let's go
Speaker 3: on a holiday. Where do you want to go? And
Speaker 3: I do you know what? I burst into tears because
Speaker 3: I had been because my business had gotten so big
Speaker 3: and there were so many amazing opportunities. I was likely
Speaker 3: reacting to things in my personal life. So you know,
Speaker 3: like I said, and a winter invited me to go
Speaker 3: to New York, amazing. I went to New York, like,
Speaker 3: you know, there would be a trade fair somewhere, I
Speaker 3: would go there. But when someone actually said to me,
Speaker 3: where do you want to go on a holiday? For you?
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't know. Like
Speaker 3: I'd abandoned myself for such a long time, and I
Speaker 3: was just having so much fun in the business that
Speaker 3: I forgot kind of about hobbies and my own things.
Speaker 3: And so for me now and they can align. I
Speaker 3: mean for me, you know, for collective habits very much
Speaker 3: around igniting human potential. But in my personal life now,
Speaker 3: it's really important that I spend time with friends and
Speaker 3: family and like I, you know, illuminate their lives a
Speaker 3: little bit as well. It's important for me personally that
Speaker 3: to be the best version of myself, you know, I
Speaker 3: exercise and I do those rituals and routines, and that
Speaker 3: you know, I find hobbies and things that light me
Speaker 3: up because all of that personal purpose stuff really actually
Speaker 3: makes me become a better human in business, but it
Speaker 3: also means that I can take time out to really
Speaker 3: enjoy my own life and give back to people who
Speaker 3: are closer you know, to me than necessarily in the
Speaker 3: business world. And whatever went as well is that whilst
Speaker 3: business gives us those big, fist pumping, adrenaline fueled moments,
Speaker 3: it's often the simple things like I'm staying with my
Speaker 3: mum at the moment she hasn't been well and I'm
Speaker 3: just cooking for her like breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and
Speaker 3: she's loving it so much and it's bringing me so
Speaker 3: much joy and making me a better human. So I'm
Speaker 3: really spending time tapping into what other things outside of
Speaker 3: business that supplement me as a human. And when do
Speaker 3: I feel on purpose underlive when it's not necessarily attached
Speaker 3: to or associated with business.
Speaker 2: I definitely need to take a ticket out that one.
Speaker 3: It took me a long time and even now you know,
Speaker 3: because I love business so much. I would literally happily
Speaker 3: work twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
Speaker 3: because I get so excited and do stuff about business.
Speaker 3: So I have to very consciously purposely remove myself and
Speaker 3: you know, make myself do other things. And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I love this and this is feeding my soul and
Speaker 3: this is actually making me a better human and it's
Speaker 3: giving me more experiences that enrich my ability to write
Speaker 3: and teach and speak about, you know, the things that
Speaker 3: I do in business. So it actually does coexist symbiotically,
Speaker 3: and I think it does make you a better human.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess I can kind of lean on
Speaker 2: the fact that I've only been an entrepreneur for the
Speaker 2: last couple of years. But I am just starting to
Speaker 2: realize that, especially with becoming a mom and just like
Speaker 2: realizing that I have my husband. He is obsessive golf,
Speaker 2: and it's like his you know, passion, and it's his
Speaker 2: hobby and he loves doing it and obviously nothing to
Speaker 2: do with that, and he often says to me, like,
Speaker 2: you need a hobby, you need something outside of work,
Speaker 2: and I just haven't got there yet. But it's only
Speaker 2: been recently where I'm starting to agree with him. And
Speaker 2: obviously when I was reading the book, I was like, yes, Lisa,
Speaker 2: I know I've got to I've got to tap into
Speaker 2: that a lot more. But I think, you know, having
Speaker 2: that awareness is definitely the first step for me for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well that is your that is your mission now
Speaker 3: after this podcast, to go and find a hobby.
Speaker 2: I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm just like not
Speaker 2: very coordinated, so like sport doesn't interest me. But I'm
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm a nature person, so I'm sure,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I can find one. But Lisa, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. It has been a dream to have you
Speaker 2: on the RNC potty and thank you so much for
Speaker 2: encouraging and inspiring and empowering us with all your amazing
Speaker 2: books and words and everything. Yeah, it has just it
Speaker 2: has been a treat. I cannot thank you enough. And
Speaker 2: I'd love if you could just tell the audience where
Speaker 2: they can find you, where they can find all your
Speaker 2: beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3: Amazing, and thank you so much for having me. It's
Speaker 3: been an absolute joy. Everyone can find me at Lisa
Speaker 3: Messenger at Collective Hub across pretty much all channels and
Speaker 3: coming soon Collective Hub Kids. So there's also an outlet
Speaker 3: for that, so go follow and aspress that out as well.
Speaker 2: So exciting. I'll have to get you back on the
Speaker 2: pody to chaut about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, a very very exciting brand launching in November.
Speaker 2: Oh incredible, I cannot wait. Thank you so much, Litha.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you coming on the show.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me see you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to another episode of
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