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Speaker 1: And well, as I mentioned, we know that on Friday,

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Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say that interview it stopped

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Speaker 1: people in their tracks. Now, Poppy Politis, she joined us

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Speaker 1: on the show to tell me about her mum, a

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Speaker 1: long time Territorian, a mom, a grandma, a great grandma,

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Speaker 1: being mugged in Nightcliff last week. Now, in an open

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Speaker 1: letter that Poppy has written to the Chief Minister, she says,

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, regardless of what happens in the courts, the

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Speaker 1: fact that this is even happening in our own community

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Speaker 1: confirms the system is broken. You're in charge of a

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Speaker 1: political party that continually dishes up excuses under the guise

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Speaker 1: of protectionism and weak laws that do not provide any

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Speaker 1: consequences for the offenders. There's nothing to protect the general

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Speaker 1: public from what is simply disgusting behavior perpetrated on innocent

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Speaker 1: members of the community.

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Speaker 2: Why do we constantly.

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Speaker 1: End up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the

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Speaker 1: victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.

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Speaker 1: I think they're bloody good questions and their questions that

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Speaker 1: a lot of Territorians are asking at this point. Now

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Speaker 1: joining me on the line, is the police Minister Brent Potter,

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Brent, Good morning Katie. Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for your time now before we get into what's

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Speaker 1: going on in Alas Springs. Were you as disgusted as

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Speaker 1: the rest of us by this attack on Poppy Politics's mother.

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Speaker 3: Sick and Katie? It was, there's no other word to

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Speaker 3: describe it. She didn't deserve what happened and no one

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Speaker 3: should be that victim. And you know you've asked me

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Speaker 3: for what success is the police minister looks like was

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Speaker 3: the response that police attended and when the time they

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Speaker 3: tended to. It doesn't change the behavior, but I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that when police were called, they attended within a very

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Speaker 3: short time.

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Speaker 1: Have you reached out to the family or has has

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Speaker 1: the government reached out to the family.

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Speaker 3: I've reached out to the family, that's correct, and.

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Speaker 2: What's their reaction been, had.

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Speaker 3: A callback that's a voicemail and show text through and

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Speaker 3: when they're ready to talk to me, more than happy

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Speaker 3: to sit down as well.

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Speaker 1: Now in this open letter which Poppy has sent to

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister, I've just read part of that out.

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Speaker 1: She said, regardless of what happens in the courts, the

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Speaker 1: fact that this is even happening in our community.

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Speaker 2: Confirms that the system's broken.

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Speaker 1: She questions the Chief Minister and the fact that she

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Speaker 1: says that she's part of a political party that continually

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Speaker 1: dishes up excuses under the guise of protectionism and weak

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Speaker 1: laws that do not provide any consequences for offenders. I mean, Brent,

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Speaker 1: you are now the Minister for Police. We know the

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Speaker 1: police are doing their jobs, They're getting out there, they're

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Speaker 1: arresting offenders.

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Speaker 2: Where is this breaking down?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we'll see what happens with this offender

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Speaker 3: when they go to court and you know, you say

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Speaker 3: I don't get an sentence that is appropriate to the crime,

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Speaker 3: then we can look at it from there. But I

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Speaker 3: would what I would say, Katie, is I made a

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Speaker 3: couman when I came on your show to all police

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Speaker 3: officers support them, and I demonstrated that as through and

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Speaker 3: I'll continue to make change to make sure police are

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Speaker 3: supported to deal with these offenders. But that nineteen year

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Speaker 3: old was offended as I was apprehended, and they've been

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Speaker 3: sentenced to appear, so someone to appear in what I

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Speaker 3: out there and that's where they're from. So they've been

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Speaker 3: bailed out to that area.

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Speaker 2: Why is that person not fronting the court in Darwin.

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Speaker 3: I actually think this is the best outcome for territories

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Speaker 3: people being sentence to it so someone to appear in

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Speaker 3: their community. There's two reasons people are waiting in town

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Speaker 3: to see you go before the local court. And they

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Speaker 3: might be waiting at a period of time there's all

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Speaker 3: the chance that they have the opportunity to offend again

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Speaker 3: with all the devices we see in the city. And secondly,

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Speaker 3: community needs to be part of the discussion and taking

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Speaker 3: responsibility and resolving these issues and changing behaviors. And I

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Speaker 3: think making people go back to their community to be

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Speaker 3: heard in their community is part of the justice process.

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Speaker 3: So I actually think this is a good outcome. Means

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Speaker 3: that person isn't in town causing a ruckus waiting for

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Speaker 3: the court come to be heard.

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Speaker 2: Minister. Are our seniors safe.

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Speaker 3: They are safe, and it's tragic that this incident's happened

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Speaker 3: and it shines a light the issues we see in

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Speaker 3: the territory. You know, I know your listeners don't like

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Speaker 3: being told this is happening everywhere, but it is happening everywhere.

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Speaker 3: But we just happened to someone that we know and

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Speaker 3: that's why it's so disgusting and it needs to be

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Speaker 3: stamped out.

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Speaker 1: It's not the first time that it's happened, and to

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Speaker 1: be frank we've had a number of people actually get

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Speaker 1: in contact with us since this incident's occurred, and so

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Speaker 1: Katie a similar situation with my mum or my grandma

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Speaker 1: at other locations. Why are we not warning senior territorians

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Speaker 1: that this is going on?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think because the fact is that if you're

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Speaker 3: a victim, it doesn't matter what age you are. The

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Speaker 3: impact that hasn't used the same. I think we see

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Speaker 3: different crimes at different times of the day. You know,

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Speaker 3: I've been down to Casarina recently and seen the behavior

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Speaker 3: there myself, and you know, as a police minister, it's

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Speaker 3: about resourcing and getting more resources on the ground. But

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Speaker 3: I think putting a warning out just for seen is

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Speaker 3: detracts from what is a risk for everyone. You know,

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Speaker 3: crime crime is a risk for every Territorian, as it

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Speaker 3: is for every Australia and every jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: So any Territorian could get mugged at any time of

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Speaker 1: the day or night and we all need to be prepared.

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Speaker 3: Well, no what I'm saying, Katie, is that how do

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Speaker 3: you determine what victim from what category deserves a warning.

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Speaker 3: I think we need to all be cognizant of what's occurring,

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Speaker 3: be cognizant of our surroundings, making sure that we're locking

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Speaker 3: our stuff up like we should, all the preventative measures.

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Speaker 3: And then what I've made at comminto toees is we

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Speaker 3: get in the resources they need to go and respond

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Speaker 3: to crime when it occurs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it's the government getting the point

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Speaker 1: people have had an absolute gutful, like we've all had enough.

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Speaker 1: How are we in a situation where an eighty five

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Speaker 1: year old woman is being mugged in broad daylight?

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Speaker 3: We're in a situation because a nineteen year old and

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Speaker 3: if you'd a discussing behavior and they're the criminal, it's

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Speaker 3: their behavior that's brought this on no one else's and

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Speaker 3: they need to be how accountable At the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, this individual is the criminal that did the action.

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Speaker 1: And it just doesn't seem to be getting better. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is the whole point that Territorians are

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Speaker 1: trying to make. And I think that you know, when

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Speaker 1: you go and have a read of Poppy's letter, like,

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Speaker 1: it's the point that people are making that we don't

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Speaker 1: have less criminals than what we did ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: We seem to have more people committing criminal offenses. And

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Speaker 1: as she said in that letter, why do we constantly

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Speaker 1: end up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the

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Speaker 1: victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll never parade the perpetrator as a victim and not.

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Speaker 3: But I don't think.

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Speaker 1: Members of your cabinet, members of your cabinet, you know,

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Speaker 1: really quite the opposite. Are their beliefs quite the opposite

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Speaker 1: maybe to yours? And you just can't get some agreement

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Speaker 1: here that what's going on is bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Well, I disagree, Katie. I've never said even say that

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Speaker 3: we do have agreement. You don't want these criminals out

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Speaker 3: in the street offending and hurting people. What we probably

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Speaker 3: disagree with the opposition is the means to change someone's

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Speaker 3: behavior and get long term generational change. The prisons are full,

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Speaker 3: police are arresting people, and they're going before the court.

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Speaker 3: We really need to ask ourselves what's the caring in

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Speaker 3: community and in our homes and environments where vs are

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Speaker 3: caring and what can be done to address that, and

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Speaker 3: I think no other government.

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Speaker 1: Well we'll give you a bit of an example where

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Speaker 1: people are feeling frustrated. And Brent, I know that you

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Speaker 1: are not the Chief Minister, obviously you're pretty new to

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Speaker 1: the police portfolio. But example of where people are feeling

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Speaker 1: incredibly frustrated is, as we know, well, as we're told

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Speaker 1: on Friday, in this situation, you've got a nineteen year

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Speaker 1: old offender. You've then got two alleged twelve year old offenders.

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Speaker 1: What's happened with those twelve year old offenders?

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Speaker 3: Well, in specific relation to this piece, I believe they've

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Speaker 3: been referred out of territory families and there's still investigations

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Speaker 3: on going, so there may be more outcomes that occur

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Speaker 3: from this. So I'm not going to say it's fine line,

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Speaker 3: but can.

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Speaker 1: You see how that doesn't Can you see how that

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Speaker 1: doesn't even then being referred to territory families how And look,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the background, I don't know the ins

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Speaker 1: and outs of this, and I don't want to only

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Speaker 1: focus on this case because we know that it's not

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Speaker 1: the first and the only time that you know that

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Speaker 1: there's been a twelve year old offender and we will

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Speaker 1: get to something that you are doing in Allie Springs

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Speaker 1: at the moment, because I think it's a good, good measure.

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Speaker 1: But can you see how for a lot of Territorians

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Speaker 1: they're looking at this and going, well, we've now got

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Speaker 1: to twelve year olds allegedly involved in an incident like

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Speaker 1: this and there seems as though there is no consequence

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Speaker 1: due to the changing of that legislation by the government

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Speaker 1: that you're part of.

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Speaker 3: So I've been very clear when i took this portfolio, Acadie,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to make change for police to get a

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Speaker 3: better outcome. Twelve year olds can be held criminally liable.

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Speaker 3: They will be charged and they should be taken to court.

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Speaker 3: Now in the instance of these two particularly youth, I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen the footage. I don't know the circumstances behind it.

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Speaker 3: There may be a valid reason why police haven't given

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Speaker 3: them a charge or basically holding them criminally accountable for

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Speaker 3: the action the nineteen year old has been for. I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to read into the detail because I just

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Speaker 3: don't know and I haven't seen the footage. What I

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Speaker 3: will say is police have the absolute ability to criminally

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Speaker 3: charge a twelve year old and above, and the expectation

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Speaker 3: is they're criminally accountable for the actions that they exhibit. Now,

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Speaker 3: so without talking this specific so I just don't know

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Speaker 3: enough of the football.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's step away from those specifics and let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about what options. There are actually

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Speaker 1: four kids that are under the age of twelve that

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Speaker 1: are committing criminal offenses. Are they actually in a situation

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Speaker 1: where they have to then, you know, be involved in

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Speaker 1: any kind of program or is it optional?

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Speaker 3: So this is probably the best question for the territory

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Speaker 3: families my understanding, and this is why we've brought in

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Speaker 3: the correspondent model in our springs. You need to get

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Speaker 3: in early and get these kids in the programs as

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Speaker 3: soon as possible. You know, they say justice the latest,

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Speaker 3: justice not served. And in this instance, if we're not

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Speaker 3: getting the kids straight out of a program, that's an issue. Now, yes,

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Speaker 3: in some instances those programs are voluntary. But in saying that,

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Speaker 3: there's not just one program. If you don't complete that program,

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Speaker 3: well then that's it walk away. You know, nothing more happens.

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Speaker 3: We've got multiple programs and different kids will go to

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Speaker 3: different programs. But at the end of the day, the

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Speaker 3: twelve year old. Yep, they're criminally accountable. Underneath goes to

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Speaker 3: on track programs through Territory Families and kids will complete

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Speaker 3: programs and sometimes it may take a couple of programs

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Speaker 3: to get that change. Behave you've all got kids. Some

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Speaker 3: forms of discipline at home don't work for others as

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Speaker 3: they do for other kids. You have just got to

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Speaker 3: pick the right program for the right kid.

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Speaker 2: But is that optional or is it mandatory?

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Speaker 3: Well, it depends in some instances. If it's a family

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Speaker 3: Responsibility agreement, it's implemented, well, then the kids.

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Speaker 2: Have to complete, so it's not mandatory.

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Speaker 3: Well, depends on the KD. I can't say what every

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Speaker 3: program is or isn't. Like at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: the kids need to complete the program they're given.

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Speaker 1: But can you say that can you understand the frustration

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Speaker 1: from people? Can you understand the frustration from territorians.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? And this is why my point is we need

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Speaker 3: to be putting it back on the parents and I

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Speaker 3: want to see greater accountability for parents and that's what

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Speaker 3: we're working towards at the moment, and the discussions I'm

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Speaker 3: having with the Territory Families Minister and Police at the

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Speaker 3: executive level is how can we get families more accountable

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Speaker 3: and involved in the seat at the table, because I

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Speaker 3: think if we really want to change an under twelve

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Speaker 3: year old's behavior, the parent has to be accountable. And

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Speaker 3: if the parent is unable to be the parent, well,

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Speaker 3: then we have the provisions under the youth just under

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Speaker 3: the Care and Protection Act of section fifty seven, we

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Speaker 3: need to be taking that kid into care. I think

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Speaker 3: that that is how we get around whether it's maniatary

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Speaker 3: not managery, is removing the kid from the environment and

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Speaker 3: then putting the intensive programs behind them when they're in

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Speaker 3: the care of the CEE from territory families. All right,

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Speaker 3: That to me is while we've brought the twenty four

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Speaker 3: seven child protection model in because I don't think that

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Speaker 3: part was working to best effect in kids were getting missed.

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Speaker 3: So now having twenty four to seven child protection on

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Speaker 3: is closing that gap and we're seeing a better outcome

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: You are obviously in Allie Springs at the moment on

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Speaker 1: Friday announcing that child protection workers who are set to

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Speaker 1: work alongside the police to take kids to a safe

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Speaker 1: place if they're found roaming territory streets. I'm unaccompanied at night,

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Speaker 1: so essentially Territory Family stuff are going to be on

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Speaker 1: deck from ten pm until six am Monday to Thursday

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Speaker 1: and twenty four to seven on other days under this trial,

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Speaker 1: which is set to run until the fourth of February.

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Speaker 2: How long will this initiative?

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Speaker 1: You know, like, how long are you expecting it to

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Speaker 1: take before you sort of see some change or you

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Speaker 1: see an easing I guess on the burden for police

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Speaker 1: having to currently do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So what I got told from the commissioner today

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Speaker 3: when we did the master room briefing was a quite

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Speaker 3: over the weekend in Alice Springs and on the first

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Speaker 3: shift on Friday there was four youth that were brought

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Speaker 3: in that were brought straight to the Territory Famili's correspond

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Speaker 3: to model and I think the similar number on Saturday.

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Speaker 3: And then last night it was a bit colder analysis.

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Speaker 3: That was a quite a night. But that's exactly why

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Speaker 3: I wandered it because I knew there were significant numbers

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Speaker 3: of youth that were being dealt with by police and

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Speaker 3: ultimately wasting police resources and Territory Family is the best

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Speaker 3: place they're the social workers that their best place to

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Speaker 3: do this. Police aren't that. So we've seen that model

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Speaker 3: that's rolled out. I think it's going to be hugely

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Speaker 3: successful because they did those assessments that night. In some instances,

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Speaker 3: I've been told over the weekend they actually got the

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Speaker 3: night patrolling go and pick the parents up, and the

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Speaker 3: parents actually came in and they did that engagement right

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Speaker 3: then and there on the spot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I think this sounds like it's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It does sound like common sense. Again, though I guess

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Speaker 1: people are going to be asking Brent, why hasn't it

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Speaker 1: happened sooner.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've become the minister for the last four to

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Speaker 3: five weeks. I haven't been capt previously. I can't talk

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Speaker 3: to it, but I heard it directly from the front line.

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Speaker 3: I committed to make the change. That's what I've done.

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Speaker 3: I did the same with the powers of the arrest

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Speaker 3: powers under one seven one of the grogack tipping out.

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Speaker 3: I've got them that last week in Parliament, two weeks

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Speaker 3: ago in Parliament. So when they tell me they want something,

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Speaker 3: they're getting it. We're making those.

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Speaker 2: Changes anything today.

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Speaker 1: We are also we are also going to see the

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Speaker 1: opening hours at bottle shops being reduced. This is a

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Speaker 1: trial until the end of January. How do you think

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Speaker 1: this is going to help with the issues that we

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Speaker 1: are experiencing.

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Speaker 3: I think for those people that are problem drinkers, it's

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Speaker 3: going to impact them day to day. For everyone else

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Speaker 3: Monday to Friday, I think we're going to see a

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Speaker 3: very limited impact and they're not going to notice any different.

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Speaker 3: To be completely Frank Codie, twelve o'clock, ten o'clock. Most

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Speaker 3: people on a Monday to Friday day workers. But this

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Speaker 3: will absolutely impact those people that are problem drinkers. What

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Speaker 3: it will do for police over the summer period is

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Speaker 3: it will give them a reprieve. It will see an

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Speaker 3: easing of their demand on their calls to police, which

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Speaker 3: allows them to get int the proactive policing space. It

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Speaker 3: is a trial. It ends on Jane twenty fifth. I've

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Speaker 3: met with Alex and said the same thing to him.

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Speaker 3: This is a trial ending on the jan twenty fifth,

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Speaker 3: and it's a measure that supports police over Christmas. And

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Speaker 3: I know that some people are unhappy. To be completely frank, Katie,

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Speaker 3: we were criticized last year and alis we're not acting

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Speaker 3: fast enough. We've acted fast on the recommendation of police,

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Speaker 3: and that's where we've landed on this trial.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that people are overly I don't think

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Speaker 1: that they're unhappy about the reduction of ours. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there definitely is some people that are unhappy about the

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Speaker 1: reduction of ours, particularly if you're trying to run a

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Speaker 1: business or if you are a worker whose hours are

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Speaker 1: going to be cut. But I think it was more

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Speaker 1: the fact that you guys didn't actually have those discussions

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Speaker 1: with Hospitality and told them a few days before it

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to happen, and then changed it.

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Speaker 3: I acknowledge that Katie and I'm not shying away from that,

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Speaker 3: and from a policing point of view, those discussions we

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Speaker 3: had right up to when the decision was made. Including

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Speaker 3: the seven day band drink or order, I think that

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Speaker 3: that's been missed in out of all of this. The

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Speaker 3: fact that people must now be put on a band

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Speaker 3: drink or order for seven days if they found breaching

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Speaker 3: or they're drinking in a park or being drinking down

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Speaker 3: Mitchell Street outside of a license venue. I think that's

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Speaker 3: the best outcome out of this whole package, including the

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Speaker 3: change in times.

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Speaker 1: Now I have got a message here that's come through

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Speaker 1: from Deb She's wondering why that nineteen year old has

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Speaker 1: been bailed to face the water Air court. Obviously I've

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Speaker 1: already asked you about this, but she says that means

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Speaker 1: the victim's family can't attend as you need a permit

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Speaker 1: to go there. Also, it would restrict media reporting for

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Speaker 1: the same risk reason. If the crime happened in Darwin,

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Speaker 1: shouldn't it be heard here in Darwen?

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Speaker 2: It is that question.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's historical examples of when people are waiting in

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Speaker 3: town for court cases that there's a likelihood for re

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Speaker 3: offending that does happen. I think in terms of media attention,

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Speaker 3: it'll still get the same media attention regardless of where

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Speaker 3: it's heard, because it still gets all published and the media.

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Speaker 3: You can go out there, and if there's a permit

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Speaker 3: required for the family to go out then we're happy

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Speaker 3: to help facilitate that.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: We need to be getting people back in a community,

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Speaker 3: sentencing community so that there's an overall accountability. I think

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Speaker 3: if we're having people in town, there's unnecessarily people hanging

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Speaker 3: around them.

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Speaker 2: Have we lost you there, Brent, nah?

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Speaker 3: I got your sorry. I don't know where did I

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Speaker 3: cut out? Then you need to repeat that.

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Speaker 1: No, no, Well, so you're just telling us that people

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Speaker 1: can go out there to what. Look, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it is that easy for the media to go out there.

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Speaker 1: I think you do need to permit. You need to obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, get approval to head out there.

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Speaker 3: And what I'm saying is we're happy that if a

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Speaker 3: permit's required, then you know, through the victim's team within

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Speaker 3: AGD and the like, we can we can work out

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Speaker 3: those permits. But at the end of the day, we're

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Speaker 3: senting with summons to appear out and what I because

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Speaker 3: that's where the person's from, and we just know that

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Speaker 3: if people stay in town waiting for court, there is

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Speaker 3: a likelihood of further offending, and we want to remove that.

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Speaker 3: You know, it ultimately keeps the community safer. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you've got strict bail conditions and you bailed to

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Speaker 3: you where you live, and you someone's appear where you live,

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Speaker 3: then that's better for everyone.

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Speaker 2: Mines.

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Speaker 1: So I do want to ask, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the face of it, it seems like you've stepped

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Speaker 1: into the portfolio, you're prepared to make changes that the

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Speaker 1: police want you are prepared to, you know, to get

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Speaker 1: some things moving in different areas we're previously had seemed

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Speaker 1: to stall. But then you know, we have got a

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Speaker 1: real concern from a lot of members of the community

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Speaker 1: at the moment. You know that the Labor Party is

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Speaker 1: very very left with a lot of the policies that

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Speaker 1: you've got in place. You know, the raising of the

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Speaker 1: criminal age is one of those areas that people had

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Speaker 1: a lot of concern.

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Speaker 2: Is there a rift.

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Speaker 1: Within the cabinet at the moment or is there you know,

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Speaker 1: a different line of thinking in the cabinet at the moment,

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Speaker 1: some of you realizing that you do need to make

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Speaker 1: some changes and you do need to make them fast,

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Speaker 1: and others, you know, really letting their ideological views stop you.

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Speaker 3: I think that a chief made it pretty clear when

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Speaker 3: she did appoint to meet police and brought Joel in

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Speaker 3: that you know, I wanted to want to change in

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Speaker 3: direction and fresh thatt of eyes on things. And at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, you know, this is one

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Speaker 3: of the issues that are affecting territories along with cost of living.

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Speaker 3: So you know, if incumbent on any government to listen

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Speaker 3: to their constituency and to act on those issues. I

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Speaker 3: think some people will never be happy that we've gone

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Speaker 3: far enough and others will say we've gone too far.

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Speaker 3: But I think sitting in the middle where we are

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Speaker 3: right now with these issues and being pragmatic is exactly

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Speaker 3: where we need to be. And supporting police. You know,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I've said I will

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Speaker 3: support the police of view and the findings in that absolutely,

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Speaker 3: you know, because they're the ones doing the hairlifting at

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Speaker 3: the moment. And yeah, I can't do much more than

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Speaker 3: to live on the commitment that I made to them

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Speaker 3: as the minister.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are there some members so of your cabinet

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Speaker 1: that aren't listening to the community's concerns.

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Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't say that. I think everyone represents different

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Speaker 3: parts of the community and we need to have different

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Speaker 3: outcomes for different areas. I think, you know, you just

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Speaker 3: look at the sentencing around what that was a policy

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Speaker 3: that we've brought in around the Bush courts and community

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Speaker 3: sentencing and having local communit justice groups like we know

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Speaker 3: that that will change the long term offending in the territory,

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Speaker 3: but it will take time to see that. I know

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Speaker 3: people don't like hearing it because they feel unsafe right

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Speaker 3: now and they want to see change. But we've got

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Speaker 3: to have both. We've got to have the short sharp

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Speaker 3: measures right now and the long term justice check reform

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Speaker 3: that we need to so that people in community are

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Speaker 3: staying in the community and they're being senate in community

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Speaker 3: and they're working with community because at the moment, the

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Speaker 3: prison's are full, Katie, like police apprehending people in the

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Speaker 3: courts are sending some we need to get the reform

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Speaker 3: so they're not reoffending.

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Speaker 1: Well, Brent Porter, the Minister for Police, we are going

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Speaker 1: to have to leave it there. Appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for speaking with us.

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Speaker 3: No problems, Katie, thanks a lot.

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Speaker 2: Thank you