1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Now, anti courts have revealed that they're expecting more than 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: twenty two thousand criminal and domestic violence cases by the 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: end of the twenty twenty four to twenty five financial year. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: The new data, released last week and published by The 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Northern Territory News predicts an eighteen percent increase in lodgements 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: compared to the previous twelve months. It's going to break 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: a decor decade, i should say, long record for lower courts. 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Now joining us on the line to talk a little 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: bit more about the situation is the Law Society of 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: the Northern Territories President Richard Henshke. Good morning to you, Richards. 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. How are you. Youre really well? 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time this morning. Now, Richard, 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: this data shows a dramatic increase. What do you think 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: the reason for the increase is. 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: I think there's no doubt that the increased demand is 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: because of the government's stronger laws. There's no other reason. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: A picture for us of what it's like, you know 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: at the courts at the moment in the Northern Territory, Well. 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 2: I'm not a criminal lawyer, but what I do understand 20 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: is that it is hectic, it's pressured, and it's stressful 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: for everyone who's involved in the system. That's judges, that's lawyers, 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: that's people who are victims of crime, that's people who 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: are coming before the court's charged with offenses. 24 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: And Richard, I mean, what are people that are in 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: those in that system every single day saying to you? 26 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Is it stress? That's sustainable? 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: It's not sustainable. Like anything, Katie, you work your best 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: when you're able to sort of process things efficiently and carefully. 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: Decisions that are being made in the courts effect the 30 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: lives of people in so many serious ways. It's not 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: something that can be pushed through like a sausage factory. 32 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: I guess you know, when we look at the way 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: that the changes are sort of having an impact across 34 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory right now, it's sort of really easy 35 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: for us to understand it when we look at the 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: corrections facilities. For example, you know, our listeners they hear 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: that our correctional facilities are fool that they hear that 38 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: there is a lot of prisoners, a lot of extra prisoners. 39 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: But for them listening this morning, they're probably wondering what 40 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: the additional caseload means. When you go through the court 41 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: system and through the different court systems. 42 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 2: Sure. Well, for lawyers, we've got an obligation to represent 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: the person before the court's the best of our ability. 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: We've got an obligation to fully enforce the judge of 45 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: matters that are relevant to sentencing. And I would say 46 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: we've got an obligation to the wider community as well, 47 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 2: just to ensure that the system functions as it should. 48 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: And at this point in time, I mean, is there 49 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: a big backlog of cases? 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: Well, I believe that there is. And by backlog, there 51 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 2: are people who are in custody and on remand for 52 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: longer than they should be, And there are only so 53 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: many judges and so many courtrooms to handle this, this 54 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: increasing inflow into the system. 55 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: And I guess it also means as well, for a 56 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: lot of victims they're waiting, I'm assuming for a longer 57 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: period of time to find out what the outcome of 58 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: their case might be. 59 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's inevitable, and that's that's clearly not good. 60 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: What I mean, what steps are there practical measures that 61 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: could be taken to try to speed things along? Are 62 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: there some changes that could be made? I guess there's 63 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: probably some that are much longer, bigger changes. But are 64 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: there some practical things that could be happening? 65 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: Look, Katie, I really don't don't think that there is. 66 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: We've recently seen the appointment of three new local court 67 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: judges that will help, but the resources are finite in 68 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: terms of court rooms, correctional services, social workers, court support stuff. 69 00:04:53,800 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 2: What we're doing is squeezing into an environment that has 70 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: finite resources, more and more people, and you know, you 71 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: just can't make something bigger and more resourced than it 72 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: is already, and particularly you can't do that overnight. 73 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: So where, I mean, where do you think we go 74 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: to from here? Because it's I guess it's a tough situation. 75 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: In some ways, You've got a real push from the community. 76 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: They want people that are breaking the law to be 77 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: held to account, they want them going through the court system. 78 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: And obviously the changes that the government have made they 79 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: feel are in line with what the expectation of the 80 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: community was following the election. But then we've got a 81 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: court system that seems as though it is it's being 82 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: pushed to the brink. 83 00:05:52,160 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: Well, I think undoubtedly the government is doing what it 84 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: was elected to do, what I think people need to 85 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: understand is that there is a bigger picture, and the 86 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: bigger picture is resources must be found from somewhere to 87 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: enable the system to meet the demands that are now 88 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: being placed on it. And that's going to have consequences 89 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: that there is, again everything finite. There's a finite amount 90 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: of money to go around. And so am I going 91 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 2: to sit back as a person who's elected the government 92 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: in place and say, well, okay, I understand that the 93 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: money that I was expecting to be used for this 94 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: particular project is now going to be used to resource 95 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: the courts to do what the government is asking the 96 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: courts today. And it's not just the courts, the police, 97 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: it's correctional services. It's huge Richard in. 98 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: An ideal world, And I guess, if there was able 99 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: to be some additional funding, what, you know, what could 100 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: we be doing, What measures could be implemented, even if 101 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: they are longer term. 102 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: Look, that's a very good question, and if only the 103 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: answer is that I might be the next Chief minister, 104 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: we might want to know. 105 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: I wonder, I mean, do we need more courts? Do 106 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: we need more judges? I guess, no matter what, it 107 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: does sound as though we're going to have that continued 108 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: stress because unfortunately we're dealing with, you know, with the 109 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: issues that we've got where people are breaking the law. 110 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: But I suppose, luck we want to try and make 111 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: things as as cohesive as they can be. 112 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think so, Katie, I think. I mean, there 113 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: are two ways to look at this. The first way 114 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: is we need to resource the court system so that 115 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: it can cope. And that's more judges, that's more support stuff, 116 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: that's more lawyers in the system who are able to 117 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: resource and to sort of deal with people. But there's 118 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: also looking at it from the other end, which is 119 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: stopping people from falling into the system, this endless cycle 120 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: of offending, going to custody, getting out of custody, offending, 121 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: and then the endless generational cycle of Well that's what 122 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: I do because that's what I know. 123 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is some I mean, there's some serious, serious 124 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: work to do. Richard. I really appreciate your time this morning. 125 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: I know that I'm sure you are very busy, so 126 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to have a chat 127 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: with us. Is there anything else we should be aware of? 128 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,359 Speaker 1: I mean, in this space before. 129 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: I let you go, Well, look, the only thing that 130 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: I would say is that the system is equipped to 131 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: do what it needs to do, but when more is 132 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: put into the system, it just doesn't manage. Lawyers, judges, 133 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: support staff at the courts, police correctional services are doing 134 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: their absolute best their human beings, and you can only 135 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: do so much and you can only work under so 136 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 2: much pressure for so long before things start to crack. 137 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Well, Richard, I really appreciate you having a chat with 138 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: us today. Thank you very much for your time and 139 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: no doubt we'll talk to you again at some point 140 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: in the future. 141 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, thank 142 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: You, thanks so much.