1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the daly Os. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: daly Os. It's Thursday, the third of April. I'm Billy, 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm Sam. In case you missed it, the death penalty 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: has returned as the most extreme punishment one can receive 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: for a federal crime in the US. It was one 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: of the many executive orders President Donald Trump made on 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: his first day in office back in January, and now 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: it could be used in one of the most high 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: profile murder cases in the country of the past decade. Today, 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: we're here to explain the use of the death penalty 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: in the US and why it might be used in 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: the case of Luigi Maggioni. 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Billy, this was really one of the biggest stories in 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: the world when everything happened in December. That was four 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: months ago, which is just crazy to think about that. 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I remember not only the story and just 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: the brazen vision that we could see of what happened 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: on the street. And we're going to get into exactly 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: what happened, but then the internet reaction after that as well. 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: Before we do get into what's happened this week, particularly 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: in relation to the death penalty. Give me a brief 23 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: overview of who Luigi Mangioni is and what he's accused 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: of doing. 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, many of us will remember this case because of 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: how viral it went on social media, particularly on TikTok. 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: I think it just you know, had a life of 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: its own on that platform. So Luigi Mangioni, he is 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: a twenty six year old man, and in December of 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: last year, he was arrested over the killing of a 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: health insurance CEO in New York. Now, the CCTV footage 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: which you were just talking about, Sam of this shooting 33 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: shows the CEO, whose name is Brian Thompson, walking to 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: a conference in New York just before seven am one morning, 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: and the shooter, who we now know is allegedly Mangioni, 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: comes up behind him in this eerily calm fashion. He 37 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: really doesn't look stressed at all. It almost looks like 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: it's straight out of a video game, and he shoots 39 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Brian Thompson from behind, and Thompson immediately drops to the 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: ground and he was announced dead at the scene. Now, 41 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: this shooting prompted a nationwide manhunt, almost international if you 42 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: take into account, you know, all of the people on 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: social media around the globe who were completely hooked to 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: this case. 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: The amateur slew things exactly really interesting time to watch 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: the Internet kind of be a bit of a beast. 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it went on for a couple of days. 48 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: I think it was just under a week that you know, 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: there were prosecutors or there were police all over the 50 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: country trying to figure out who this person was. And 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: then that ended when Mangioni was spotted by an employee 52 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: Adam McDonald's in Pennsylvania, and this employee thought that he 53 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: looked like the photos that the police had distributed of 54 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: the shooter, and Mangioni was indeed then arrested. Police Now 55 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,839 Speaker 1: they seemed pretty confident that he was the person they 56 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: had been looking for, and there were lots of different 57 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: signs that kind of led them to that belief. So, 58 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: for example, he was carrying a gun that was consistent 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: with the one used in the murder. And he also 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: had a handwritten document on him which accused health care 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: companies for putting profits above care. And we knew that 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: whoever this person was that shot the healthcare CEO probably 63 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: did have a really big issue with the way healthcare 64 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: companies are run in the US. I remember the bullets 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: of the gun had the words delayed, deny and depose 66 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: scratched on to the side of the bullets, and those 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: are phrases that are often used to criticize the tactics 68 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: used by insurers to avoid paying claims. 69 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: There was definitely this huge wave of discussions about the 70 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: way that the US healthcare system operates, also about the 71 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: wages that executives are on the standing of these public companies. 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: These the shooter in some ways did get what they 73 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: wanted in terms of a discussion to be happening about it. 74 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: It was really it really did change corporate America. 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah did. And so the fact that Luigi Mangioni had 76 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: this letter YEAH with him when police found. 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: Him, somewhat of a manifesto exactly. 78 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: And the note illustrated the police said, it illustrated ill 79 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: will toward corporate America. So again, there were lots of 80 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: different signs that led police to be quite confident that 81 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: Luigi Manngioni was the person they were looking for sure. Now, 82 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: since then, since he was arrested, he has been in 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: prison in New York and he has been in and 84 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: out of court I'm sure many of us have seen 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: the photos of you know, he's in the orange jumpsuit 86 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: appearing before court on several different occasions. And probably the 87 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: biggest update since The Daily Os last covered this is 88 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: the fact that he has pleaded not guilty. 89 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: So let's talk about that. Though, because you've taken us 90 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: through the evidence, you've taken us through the CCTV footage, 91 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: it's hard to know how to talk about this properly 92 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: because there's obviously a legal process going on, but there's 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: a mountain of evidence that suggests that Mangioni is the killer. 94 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: But he's pleading not guilty. So does that mean he's 95 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: saying he didn't do it or that they have the 96 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: wrong person? Like, what does that plea actually mean? 97 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? I was so interested in this and I went 98 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: on a huge deep dive because obviously in America, just 99 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: like in Australia, you can be arrested for a crime, 100 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: but there is a presumption of innocence, so you were 101 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: considered innocent until you are otherwise proven guilty. 102 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Which is his status right now. 103 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Exactly. So, Luigi Mangioni has not been found guilty. There 104 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: is all of this evidence, but he hasn't been found guilty, 105 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: and I was really interested in is he saying that 106 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: they have the wrong person despite all of this mountain 107 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: of evidence that we just briefly went through, and I 108 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: couldn't really find too much except for his lawyers constantly 109 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: saying that he's entitled to the presumption of innocence and 110 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: he should be treated that way. And they have a 111 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: huge issue at the moment with both the media, the public, 112 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: and also how prosecutors are acting, saying that everyone is 113 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: treating him as though he is guilty, but he hasn't 114 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: gone through the court process yet. But in terms of 115 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: whether they're saying they have the wrong person, I couldn't 116 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: find anything where they said exactly that it's possible that 117 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: maybe Luigi man Geroni just wants to go through the 118 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: court process and wants his lawyers to talk about all 119 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons this. 120 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: Is the thing, right It gaves them a platform, exactly, 121 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: and we've seen that with other high profile criminals over 122 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: the years, particularly in America, and the way that their 123 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: justice system can operate is even if he does have 124 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 2: a guilty verdict handed down, that could almost guarantee he's 125 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 2: going to appeal that and this process could last, you know, 126 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: a decade, and it keeps giving somebody who's alleged of 127 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: a crime or convicted of a crime a chance to 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: actually have a platform to engage in fundraising, to engage 129 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 2: in talking about the things that they so firmly believe 130 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: in that they are convicted to have killed for it. 131 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: It's a really interesting quirk of the system. And on 132 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: one hand, I get it. Everyone is entitled to a 133 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: fair trial and is entitled to the presumption of innocence. 134 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: But he's facing some pretty serious charges, right. 135 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's exactly right though, that he has 136 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: this platform at the moment, and by pleading not guilty. Again, 137 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that he's definitely guilty, but by pleading 138 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: not guilty, he is stretching out how long the media 139 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: and the world will be paying attention to him and 140 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: this case, can. 141 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: We just go back one step? So what exactly has 142 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: he been charged with? 143 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's facing multiple charges at both a state 144 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: and a federal level. So just like in Australia, there 145 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,559 Speaker 1: are criminal laws at both a state and federal level, 146 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: and if you are alleged to commit a crime, you 147 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: will be prosecuted at either a state level or a 148 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: federal level, or both right, And so in this case, 149 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: Mangioni is accused of breaking laws at both the state 150 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: and federal level. He's actually accused of breaking laws in 151 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: two states, in Pennsylvania where the police found him, and 152 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: in New York where he committed the murder, and then 153 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: also at the federal level. So I'll go through the 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: state charges first, and I'll just focus on the ones 155 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: in New York because those are the main ones. So 156 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: in New York he is accused of first degree murder yep, 157 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: and also murder as an act of terrorism. I remember 158 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: when that charge came out that generated a lot of conversation, 159 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: the fact that this is being considered an act of terrorism. 160 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: And just quickly, the difference between those charges from those 161 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: discussions I think you and I had on the pot 162 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: a couple of months ago, is because prosecutors want to 163 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: argue that there was this ideological driver exactly behind the murder. 164 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 2: So they've got both bases covered. Yes, this person was 165 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: killed because they were killed, but also they were killed 166 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: for this reason exactly. 167 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: So those are the two main charges in New York, 168 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: but there are also several others there and then on 169 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: top of that, there are also the federal charges, which 170 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: includes use of a firearm to commit murder and then 171 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: also interstate stalking resulting in death. And now it's those 172 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: two charges I just spoke about at the federal level 173 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: that we're talking about today because it's those ones that 174 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: could result in the death penalty. 175 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: And so the reason you and I are talking about 176 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: this on the podcast today is the introduction of the 177 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: prosecution saying we want to pursue the death penalty. I 178 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: didn't know that the death penalty was still widely used 179 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: across America. 180 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess because in Australia it's not used 181 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: at all. Do you know when it was last legal 182 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: in Australia seventies close nineteen eighty five. Okay, well, so 183 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: what's that exactly forty years. Yeah, so it's been a 184 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: long time, but in the US it hasn't. So I 185 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: was interested to learn that the death penalty is actually 186 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: still legal in twenty four which is nearly half of 187 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: the US states. But again that's at a state level, 188 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: and worth mentioning that in New York it's not legal, 189 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: so the death penalty can't be used against Luigi Mangioni 190 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: in the state charges that we were talking about, But 191 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: at a federal level it's only recently been made legal again. 192 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: Which I'm assuming has been a recent chain with the 193 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: change of administrations, right. 194 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that it is such a political issue 195 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: in the US. So in July twenty twenty one, just 196 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: a few months after becoming president, Joe Biden ordered a 197 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: pause on the death penalty at a federal level, essentially 198 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: saying that everyone deserves to be treated fairly and humanly. Now, 199 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: he introduced that after Donald Trump in the previous four 200 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: years had obviously been president and there had been a 201 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: rise in the number of crimes that had resulted in 202 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: the death penalty. So Joe Biden put a pause on 203 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Then Donald Trump is voted into the 204 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: White House again, and on his first day earlier in 205 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: January this year, Donald Trump signs an executive order on 206 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: his first day to restore the death penalty. 207 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 2: And so just quickly to kind of catch everybody up, 208 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: this executive order, it's this power given to the president 209 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: to pass a law that doesn't require the approval of Congress. 210 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: Why did he use this quite extraordinary power of the 211 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: president to action that on day one. 212 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: The reason that they gave in the actual executive order, 213 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: they said, capital punishment, which is another word used to 214 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: describe the death penalty, is an essential tool for deterring 215 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: and punishing those who would commit the most heinous crimes 216 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: and acts of lethal violence against American citizens. So they're 217 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: basically saying, this is the ultimate deterrent to anyone thinking 218 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: of committing any crime like this. 219 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: And to President Trump's credit, it was him delivering on 220 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: a campaign promise and he won the election across the 221 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: board in the US, and he said he was going 222 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: to be tough on crime in this way. But now 223 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: this could be used against Luigi Mangioni. 224 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, So on Tuesday this week, the US Attorney General, 225 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: who is the country's chief legal advisor, so basically like 226 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: the top lawyer, recommended that the death penalty be used 227 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: in the case of Luigi Mangioni. So the Attorney General 228 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: said the murder was quote a premeditated, cold blooded assassination 229 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: of an innocent man and father of two young children. 230 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: And she said that this murder was an act of 231 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: political violence. And you also added that quote because the 232 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: murder took place in public, with bystanders nearby. It could 233 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: have posed a grave risk of death to additional persons, right. 234 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: And obviously this is still in the context of the 235 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: trial needing to take place. It's not the Attorney General 236 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: saying this is going to be the result. It's them 237 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,239 Speaker 2: saying that this is what the prosecution is going to pursue. 238 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: So what's happening now then? 239 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: So Mangioni is due to next appear in a federal 240 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: court in New York on April eighteenth, So that's just 241 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: over two weeks away. Now that is a hearing. It's 242 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: not the actual start to the trial, but it is 243 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: a step closer to the trial taking place. I don't 244 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: know when exactly that trial starts. We don't have that 245 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: date yet. 246 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 2: There are a lot of details they're going to need 247 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: to figure out. One of the big contentions they're going 248 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: to have to decide on is can you find a 249 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: jury of people who haven't particularly been tainted in their 250 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: view of this person. I assume the answers that will 251 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: probably be no, and it'll be a judge only trial. 252 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 2: Then there's a whole other issues that come along with that. 253 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: Retrial bit to these sorts of cases can take months. 254 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: Well, that would be interesting if it was a judge 255 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: only trial, because for the death penalty, usually it would 256 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: be up to the jury, not a judge, to determine 257 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: if the accused should be sentenced to death, and then 258 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: that decision has to be unanimous amongst all of the jurors, 259 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: So that could completely change things. If this is a 260 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: judge only. 261 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: Trial, there might have to be a decision made by 262 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 2: the prosecution do they pursue a judge only trial or 263 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: try and go for the death penalty with a jury 264 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: where they know that the defense Mangoni's team could argue 265 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: that there's no way to find a jury that hasn't 266 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: quite a preconceived idea of this man exactly. 267 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: And that's something that the defense has spoken a lot 268 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: about that they don't believe that Mangioni will be able 269 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: to have a fair trial. 270 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: And so have we heard anything from Mangioni's camp since 271 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: this announcement, particularly about the death penalty. 272 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, Mangioni's lawyer did put out a statement they said, 273 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: by seeking to murder Luigi Mangioni, the Justice Department has 274 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: moved from the dysfunctional to the barbaric. So some pretty 275 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: strong words. 276 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 2: There really interesting story, Billy. This is one we're going 277 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: to be talking about in the news for dare I 278 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: say probably years, So this will this will take a 279 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: long time, but it's important to kind of understand how 280 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: this process is going to evolve, especially in a country 281 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: with some unique quirks to their digital system like America. Billy, 282 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: thank you so much, Thank you, and thank you for 283 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: joining us on the Daily Ods this morning. We really 284 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: appreciate your support. As always, if you want to tune 285 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: in to another podcast from us, we'll be back in 286 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: the afternoon with some headlines. Until then, have a great day. 287 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 288 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 289 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 290 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 291 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 292 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.