Speaker 1: This week's bonus episode.
Speaker 2: Today, we're going to get into a topic that is
Speaker 2: really close to my heart because of the amount of people,
Speaker 2: through much money out program that have labeled themselves in
Speaker 2: this particular way, and that is we're going to get
Speaker 2: into the topic of self sabotage, which is something that
Speaker 2: I don't understand fully and I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 2: understanding better. And it's something that I know affects a
Speaker 2: lot of people out there. So hopefully we can identify
Speaker 2: what self sabotage is and give some really practical steps
Speaker 2: by speaking to an incredible clinical psychologist about how we
Speaker 2: overcome it. I'm Sam Wood.
Speaker 1: This is the Wood Life. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Very excited to welcome an next guest, dietitian, nutritionist, author
Speaker 2: and just a really really beautiful person who is always
Speaker 2: putting out such positive messages from a body positivity perspective.
Speaker 2: You may know her as.
Speaker 1: The Nude Nutritionist.
Speaker 2: I know that's how I discovered her on Instagram by
Speaker 2: following her for years. Absolutely love the content that she
Speaker 2: puts out there, and really excited actually to be working
Speaker 2: with her really soon as we're both part of the
Speaker 2: healthy life, which for anyone that wants to check that out.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful health resource. It is none other that
Speaker 2: Lindy Cohen. Welcome to the WOODLFE and thank.
Speaker 3: You so much for joining us, ah Sam, I'm so
Speaker 3: happy to be here. Stakes thanks for having me so Lindy.
Speaker 2: Something that you've done that I love is promote some
Speaker 2: really great messages around rejecting diets and accepting our bodies
Speaker 2: the way they are. And because you do that, that's
Speaker 2: why you've built such a loyal audience. Why do you
Speaker 2: think you're able to cut through to so many people?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: The thing I help people with is that feeling when
Speaker 3: we wake up and we just hate how we look.
Speaker 3: We try to get dressed in the morning and we
Speaker 3: just feel like blur. We are constantly chasing this idea
Speaker 3: of what we want to be looking like, and we
Speaker 3: never feel like we're good enough in our bodies. And
Speaker 3: I feel like the reason that I really am able
Speaker 3: to help people with these struggles is because I've been there.
Speaker 3: I spent the first decade of my younger life obsessed
Speaker 3: with trying to weigh less and exercising more, and it
Speaker 3: didn't matter how much weight I lost, I still hated
Speaker 3: how I looked. I still hated myself. I still didn't
Speaker 3: feel like I was good enough, and so I kept chasing.
Speaker 3: I kept going, well, if I just try harder, if
Speaker 3: I just try, maybe this little thing is going to,
Speaker 3: like suddenly get me to a point where I accept
Speaker 3: and like who I am. But it never happened. I
Speaker 3: would lose weight, and i'd you know, be able to
Speaker 3: sustain that for a small period of time, and then
Speaker 3: very soon afterwards, I started emotional eating, where I would
Speaker 3: completely lose control around food, and I was just in
Speaker 3: a really bad place where, you know, I'd wait for
Speaker 3: everyone else to leave the house and I creep into
Speaker 3: the pantry and I'd eat all these forbidden foods, foods
Speaker 3: that people, you know, I'll consider bad and unhealthier. I
Speaker 3: just couldn't control myself, and then someone would come home
Speaker 3: and I'd be sprung. I'd be caught, and I'd have
Speaker 3: to just pretend and hide wrappers and do all those
Speaker 3: kinds of things. And it's interesting because I spent so
Speaker 3: much of my adolescence thinking there was something very deeply
Speaker 3: wrong with me, that if only I had more willpower,
Speaker 3: if I tried a new diet or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: that I would finally be able to stick to it.
Speaker 3: And then I started talking to a lot of people
Speaker 3: and I realized this whole emotional eating thing, there's hating
Speaker 3: out bodies, never feeling like we're quite thin or pretty
Speaker 3: or good enough. This is a very universal feeling. In fact,
Speaker 3: it's very rare that I come across someone who I
Speaker 3: kind of refer to as a unicorn. You know, they
Speaker 3: have this like perfectly healthy relationship with food. They've never dieted,
Speaker 3: they eat when they're hungry, they stop wing there full,
Speaker 3: And I just think there are the exception and not
Speaker 3: the rule. And I would like to live in a
Speaker 3: world where it's normal for us to like our bodies,
Speaker 3: where healthy eating feels easy, where we exercise for enjoyment,
Speaker 3: not as punishment for eating something, and where we don't
Speaker 3: feel shame around our bodies. That's where I want to live.
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful place that we all want to live.
Speaker 2: And I can't help but think about my sixteen nearly
Speaker 2: seventeen year old daughter, who.
Speaker 1: Is fit and healthy and play sport, but she is so.
Speaker 2: Hard on herself, and I don't think it's at the
Speaker 2: point where she hates her body. Or anything like that
Speaker 2: some of the terms that you used. But I do
Speaker 2: feel like she's never satisfied. I do feel like it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what she's doing, and she does all the
Speaker 2: right things. She is chasing I don't know. It must
Speaker 2: be from social media and these other kind of influencers
Speaker 2: that have planned, did some kind of picture or idea
Speaker 2: in her head of what she has decided. Now, that's
Speaker 2: what I should be chasing, or I should be aiming for.
Speaker 2: I should be looking like. What's far more important, and
Speaker 2: that's the healthy body image, accepting your body the way
Speaker 2: that it is, training to actually love your body and
Speaker 2: take care of yourself, and exercising and moving and eating
Speaker 2: well to nourish yourself, rather than worrying about what you
Speaker 2: look like in the mirror.
Speaker 3: Spot on. I mean, what I'm really obsessed with this
Speaker 3: is the psychology behind food. I mean, if we were robots,
Speaker 3: I could give you as perfect meal plan, tell you
Speaker 3: what to eat, when to eat, how to train, and
Speaker 3: you would just do it. Humans are not robots. We
Speaker 3: are complicated creatures. You tell us, you know that eat
Speaker 3: something and it only makes us end up craving it more.
Speaker 3: And we have these bodies that we are constantly told
Speaker 3: from absolutely every direction that they are not acceptable. Let's
Speaker 3: just think about how widespread this problem is. We have
Speaker 3: mannequins in our stores that are so thin that even
Speaker 3: the smallest size needs to be pinned into play so
Speaker 3: that they can actually fit into the clothes that they
Speaker 3: be put on. We have photoshop and filters, which is
Speaker 3: completely normal on social media. When you turn up to
Speaker 3: go and get a photo shoot on the front cover
Speaker 3: of magazine, you have a model, a very beautiful person
Speaker 3: who's probably died and trade really hard to actually look
Speaker 3: like the picture of health for that magazine, and then
Speaker 3: they still get photoshop with the lighting and the makeup
Speaker 3: and all that jazz. And one of my friends, she's
Speaker 3: a model, beautiful girl, and when she was modeling clothes,
Speaker 3: they stick a stomach on her like a belly bump.
Speaker 3: And so even as pregnant women, what we see is
Speaker 3: what a pregnant woman looks like as someone who's completely
Speaker 3: modelly everywhere else and then has this perfect little bump.
Speaker 3: So we're constantly getting told that we are not enough.
Speaker 3: I feel like we've just been handing down disordered eating
Speaker 3: advice from generation to generation. It's one of the things
Speaker 3: that can get passed down through mothers doesn't always. But
Speaker 3: you know, these little comments that we accidentally make when
Speaker 3: we talk to our kids, It's like, should you really
Speaker 3: be eating that?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Wow, you're really hungry today? All those little things they
Speaker 3: really add up. And I feel like I don't want
Speaker 3: us to be passing down bad body image like an heirloom,
Speaker 3: like a shitty tea cup that no one actually wants.
Speaker 3: I think we can start to do things a whole
Speaker 3: lot better.
Speaker 1: What an interesting perspective.
Speaker 2: And as a dad, obviously with little girls, that actually
Speaker 2: plants a little seed in my head. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: I say, you say you beg and strong?
Speaker 1: Is that okay? No?
Speaker 3: I like that comment, But it's you know, generally, the
Speaker 3: less we are commenting on what kids are eating, the better.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And that's why I ask because it actually
Speaker 2: you do make me question now the little things that
Speaker 2: I say to my girls, yeah, because.
Speaker 3: They're constantly listening. And it's it's the little things that
Speaker 3: we say around food, but it's also the things like
Speaker 3: let's say we're watching TV and a woman comes on
Speaker 3: and she's worrying too much makeup or and like what
Speaker 3: she's wearing or she's gained weight, whatever it is, or
Speaker 3: you're walking on this and you see someone you haven't
Speaker 3: seen it in a while. They listen to all these comments,
Speaker 3: these judgments that we make about other people's appearance. So
Speaker 3: even if we're not directing those comments to them, they're
Speaker 3: still listening. And it can create the sense of if
Speaker 3: I'm just perfect enough, then I'm going to protect myself
Speaker 3: from the discomfort of being human. And I think that
Speaker 3: it's such a protective barrier that we try to put
Speaker 3: out to try and stop ourselves from ever getting shamed
Speaker 3: or judged by anyone, which is an inevitability. But when
Speaker 3: you create a culture in your family and your world
Speaker 3: and your life where they realize people are really judgmental,
Speaker 3: it can create a lot of residual insecurities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, getting comfortable in your own body, which, like you say,
Speaker 2: so few of us are. I mean, I love one
Speaker 2: of your sayings. I've got it written here. You say,
Speaker 2: don't sacrifice ninety five percent of your life to weigh
Speaker 2: five percent less, And I just think, aimen.
Speaker 3: To that, amen, And you can't live a full life
Speaker 3: on an empty stomach.
Speaker 1: So I love that I'm stealing all of these that's so.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: One of the things I get asked quite often is
Speaker 3: when people say, well, I'm struggling to lose the last
Speaker 3: few pounds. You know, I really like my body feels
Speaker 3: like it's fighting against me, and I really want to
Speaker 3: look like this. I want to look like what I
Speaker 3: did my wedding day or in high school, or I
Speaker 3: have a certain kind of genes that I want to
Speaker 3: fit into. And what I want that person to know is,
Speaker 3: maybe your body's fighting against you because you're not meant
Speaker 3: to lose weight. Maybe the weight where you're at is
Speaker 3: exactly where your body feels comfortable, where you fall asleep
Speaker 3: easily because your brain's free to think of things other
Speaker 3: than calories or reps of the gym. Maybe that's where
Speaker 3: your hormones are balanced. That's where you have the energy
Speaker 3: to do the things that you love doing. Maybe this
Speaker 3: weight is exactly where you're meant to be. But because
Speaker 3: of all the things that have conditioned you to think
Speaker 3: you always have to weigh less, be more lean, be
Speaker 3: more toned. You're striving to something that's actually making you
Speaker 3: deeply unhealthy, making you unhappy, and you are sacrificing your
Speaker 3: life and no one. We know this. No one at
Speaker 3: your funeral is going to go, oh, he had such
Speaker 3: great arms or it's such a flat stomach. No one's
Speaker 3: saying in these things right, and you won't be there
Speaker 3: to hear them, even if if you have such strange friends.
Speaker 3: So I think we need to change what's happening in health,
Speaker 3: what health looks like, needs to shift, because right now
Speaker 3: we have this problem where you know, when you see
Speaker 3: a photo of yourself from like a few years ago,
Speaker 3: and you're like, I looked so good. Look at me,
Speaker 3: I'm a hearty and you remember at the time loathing yourself,
Speaker 3: going oh, I should have trained harder, I should have
Speaker 3: weighed less, I should have done something else. You know,
Speaker 3: this just shows us that body image and liking yourself
Speaker 3: hasn't got to do with the goal weight. We can
Speaker 3: hate ourselves at any weight.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more if we're talking about
Speaker 2: the last five kilos. But what's your messaging for those
Speaker 2: people that aren't healthy and have thirty kilos to loads
Speaker 2: or forty kilosters or fifty kilos to loads and they're
Speaker 2: not exercising, they're not conscious about what they're putting into
Speaker 2: their bodies. From a food perspective, and they actually do
Speaker 2: need advice that you need to lose weight, because I
Speaker 2: can't be hypocritical and sit here and agree with everything
Speaker 2: you're saying when a big part of my job and
Speaker 2: my life is actually helping people that are at an
Speaker 2: unhealthy weight with a very unhealthy lifestyle make a change
Speaker 2: in a positive direction from that perspective.
Speaker 3: Okay, So take a rite back when I was twenty one,
Speaker 3: I was categorically morbidly obese. I had spent my entire
Speaker 3: life trying to weigh less. And I think we have
Speaker 3: this idea that diets, people who have been on diets,
Speaker 3: that they don't know what they should be eating. But
Speaker 3: I think it generally we understand the principles eat more vegetables,
Speaker 3: get less takeaway. We kind of understand that. And I
Speaker 3: think what happens is when we become so preoccupied by
Speaker 3: weight as this metric, then I think it actually makes
Speaker 3: healthy eating so much harder. So for example, let's say
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I'm going to start running. I really
Speaker 3: want to lose weight. Now I start running, I'm doing
Speaker 3: the thing. But if I hop on the scale a
Speaker 3: week later, two weeks later and it's not going in
Speaker 3: the direction that I wanted to do. You think I'm
Speaker 3: going to keep running, true, I definitely won't. I'm going
Speaker 3: to stop running because what was the point of doing
Speaker 3: that If the only reason I was doing it was
Speaker 3: to lose weight and I wasn't losing the weight. That
Speaker 3: healthy habit, it's gone. But let's say I said, oh,
Speaker 3: I want to start running because I really like how
Speaker 3: it makes me feel. It gives me more energy. I
Speaker 3: like that person that I am. That's awesome. What we
Speaker 3: currently have at the moment is a culture where we
Speaker 3: keep telling people you need to lose weight, you need
Speaker 3: to lose weight. Research shows that it doesn't actually lead
Speaker 3: to sustainable weight loss, and it's like, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: for a few months, we can do it, we can
Speaker 3: stick to the rules, stick to the plan. But after
Speaker 3: a few months, and we know from research, within two
Speaker 3: years people typically have regained the weight plus more. So
Speaker 3: does that mean that I think that we should all
Speaker 3: just live these you know, unhealthy lives. Not at all.
Speaker 3: I mean I think when we change our motivation for
Speaker 3: why we do things, like everything can shift. So, you know,
Speaker 3: finding exercise that you really enjoy is so fundamental. Some
Speaker 3: people are gonna love doing a circuit. Some people need
Speaker 3: to be okay with the fact that just going for
Speaker 3: a walk and turning up and moving your body and
Speaker 3: all the endorphin benefits that come from doing that, that
Speaker 3: is so useful. So I have this saying it's twenty
Speaker 3: minutes of like a gentle walk, it's better than an
Speaker 3: hour at the gym that never happens. So we have
Speaker 3: this idea that we need to be perfect in order
Speaker 3: to be healthy. And I think if we just lowered
Speaker 3: our standards a little bit and we just accepted healthy enough,
Speaker 3: we stop putting the pressure around weight, I think we'd
Speaker 3: be a lot more consistent when it comes to doing
Speaker 3: these healthy things because we realize when we eat healthily
Speaker 3: we do feel good, and when we move our bodies
Speaker 3: we do feel good. But if we keep doing it
Speaker 3: to look good, that doesn't actually serve us.
Speaker 2: This is a guest that I've wanted to have on
Speaker 2: The wood Life for a little while now, and it's
Speaker 2: a topic that I've absolutely been wanting to cover almost
Speaker 2: since The wood Life came about. And the topic we're
Speaker 2: going to dive into is one that's really close to
Speaker 2: my heart because it's something that I get asked about
Speaker 2: a lot through my twenty eight program.
Speaker 1: We're sort of going to get into that and touch
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 2: But I would love to first of all, welcome doctor
Speaker 2: Rebecca or beck Ray. Welcome to the WOODLFE.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me, Sam. It's such
Speaker 4: a great topic for us to be diving into. I
Speaker 4: can't wait to have this chat.
Speaker 2: Small Habits through a Big Life is your latest book
Speaker 2: that is all about dealing with self sabotage. So can
Speaker 2: you just explain not just our listeners to me, actually,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure I don't have the exact definition, what
Speaker 2: is self sabotage? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So self sabotage is just a fancy name for not
Speaker 4: being able to trust yourself to do the things you
Speaker 4: say you want to do.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 4: It's essentially avoidance. Now everyone avoids, so it's really important
Speaker 4: that we just right off the bat we normalize avoidance.
Speaker 4: Human brains are wired to avoid discomfort, it's what we do.
Speaker 4: So from a survival perspective, it was actually highly adaptive
Speaker 4: when we were out roaming the Savannah in clans one
Speaker 4: hundred thousand years ago that we paid attention to uncertainty.
Speaker 4: We paid attention to potential danger and avoided the emotional
Speaker 4: discomfort and sometimes physiological discomfort that showed up as a
Speaker 4: result to say get out because this could potentially be
Speaker 4: a bad situation. Now twenty twenty two, we're not necessarily
Speaker 4: living life or dead situations in first world countries like
Speaker 4: Australia on a daily basis, but we still have prehistoric
Speaker 4: software in our brain, and that means that we're operating
Speaker 4: with brains that don't particularly like hard they don't like
Speaker 4: things that are uncomfortable, and so it's actually really normal
Speaker 4: to avoid effort to avoid something that just feels uncomfortable,
Speaker 4: and it's not even really a problem. But it becomes
Speaker 4: self sabotage when the things, the behaviors that we start
Speaker 4: doing on a daily basis, those behaviors that occur more
Speaker 4: often in our lives than not. So we're probably talking
Speaker 4: about the forty to forty five percent of behaviors that
Speaker 4: make up habits. When those habits start becoming habits of
Speaker 4: self sabotage, habits of avoidance, habits that actually push us
Speaker 4: away from where we want to be, then it becomes
Speaker 4: a problem. But it means that we get very confused
Speaker 4: about what is discomfort for growth? And what is discomfort
Speaker 4: for discomfort's sake? So quite often we're actually creating a
Speaker 4: cycle where we are making ourselves feel ever more uncomfortable
Speaker 4: because we're trying to avoid initial discomfort, but we're not
Speaker 4: actually stopping to go. Hold on, if I just got
Speaker 4: up at six o'clock in the morning and went for
Speaker 4: a walk like I said I wanted to do, then
Speaker 4: my hips wouldn't be aching from sitting on the couch.
Speaker 2: You know. A very simple but good example. How do
Speaker 2: we identify self sabotage in ourselves?
Speaker 4: So if we look at food and exercise or just
Speaker 4: general lifestyle habits, then you probably self sabotage if you
Speaker 4: spend a lot of the time in your head promising
Speaker 4: that you will do certain things, and yet when it
Speaker 4: comes around to doing those things, it feels hard, or
Speaker 4: it feels effortfull, or you feel overwhelmed, or you didn't
Speaker 4: manage your time effectively so that when it came time
Speaker 4: to go into the gym you ended up running out
Speaker 4: of time. If those things keep happening more often than not,
Speaker 4: then it's likely that you're self sabotage, and we can
Speaker 4: call those things. We can give those things labels like procrastination. Sure,
Speaker 4: the most common form of self sabotage I see is procrastination,
Speaker 4: and you would see it too. Oh it's a bit
Speaker 4: cold this morning, I won't go for a walk, but
Speaker 4: I'll do it this afternoon, I promise I will. And
Speaker 4: then it gets to the softernoon, youtobo busy and the
Speaker 4: kids need something, so you just don't do it, You
Speaker 4: don't go. And so if it's making excuses, procrastinating, negative
Speaker 4: self talk, managing time ineffectively, managing your own emotions ineffectively
Speaker 4: so that you end up creating your own stress. I
Speaker 4: mean I could sit here for probably the next twenty
Speaker 4: minutes of our chat and list off ways that we
Speaker 4: can self sabotage. But the ways listeners can identify it
Speaker 4: within themselves is do you feel out of integrity? Have
Speaker 4: you been promising yourself that you would do something when
Speaker 4: it comes to your health and your fitness, and yet
Speaker 4: you're now in a position where you don't trust what
Speaker 4: you say. Your relationship with yourself is out of integrity
Speaker 4: now because you've lost trust with you. But before we
Speaker 4: pathologize it, before we pathologize you, before we pathologize every
Speaker 4: single listener. The key here is when I procrastinate, when
Speaker 4: I promise myself this, but I don't follow through, when
Speaker 4: I make excuses, is it actually stopping your life from
Speaker 4: going in a direction that you want to go, Because
Speaker 4: then we have a problem. We have a disconnect between
Speaker 4: where you are and where you want to be. And
Speaker 4: if that cycle keeps showing up that there's a promise
Speaker 4: that you're making to yourself that you're not following through on,
Speaker 4: then yeah, it's self sabotage. When we're talking about Natalie
Speaker 4: and she's at the stove thinking, this is the fifth
Speaker 4: time this week that I promised myself I would walk
Speaker 4: the dog, And here I am trying to get the
Speaker 4: toddler to stop putting Plato into the carpet, and I'm
Speaker 4: trying to pay the mortgage on my phone app while
Speaker 4: I'm stirring the sauce, and I still haven't managed to
Speaker 4: get out the door or put my running shoes on.
Speaker 4: And this is where the shame comes in. The quality
Speaker 4: of our relationship with ourselves is what suffers. So you
Speaker 4: don't wake up in the morning with your wife saying, Sam,
Speaker 4: get up and go and do your workout, because otherwise
Speaker 4: I'm going to do X, Y and Z. No one
Speaker 4: makes you do that. That's a boundary that you keep
Speaker 4: with yourself, and it's the same for all of us.
Speaker 4: We have these internal boundaries, and if we constantly disrespect
Speaker 4: our own boundaries, what happens is we end up in
Speaker 4: a shame spiral, and that shame spiral further perpetuates the
Speaker 4: cycle of self sabotage. So let's say Natalie wants to
Speaker 4: go for a walk, and she promises herself this afternoon
Speaker 4: that she will go for a walk, but it's cold
Speaker 4: by then, and the kids need dinner, and it's just
Speaker 4: easy to put dinner on now it is to do
Speaker 4: it later. So she starts doing that, and then it
Speaker 4: feels kind of relieving. It's very seductive, So self sabotage
Speaker 4: is super seductive. It actually feels better to go, you
Speaker 4: know what, I'll go tomorrow, And so in that moment
Speaker 4: she does feel better. There's one thing that's come off
Speaker 4: her shoulders that she doesn't have to deal with right now.
Speaker 4: She can just focus on everyone else. But then dinner done,
Speaker 4: the kids are bathed, she's sitting on the couch watching
Speaker 4: a murder documentary. It might be me but you know,
Speaker 4: if you need recommendations, come let me know. She's watching
Speaker 4: a murder documentary on the couch and she thinks, this
Speaker 4: is not really where I want to be, right, I've
Speaker 4: promised myself that I would go for a walk, and
Speaker 4: it's I didn't do it, and she feels guilty. And
Speaker 4: not only does she feel guilty, but she feels super
Speaker 4: frustrated with herself because she knows that this is not
Speaker 4: the life that she wants to live, This is not
Speaker 4: what she wants to be for her future self. And
Speaker 4: so then she starts to feel shame because something pops up.
Speaker 4: It's a library of mental images about all the times
Speaker 4: she's promised herself this year, because you know, January one,
Speaker 4: she made a new Year's resolution. She said that it
Speaker 4: wasn't going to be like this because she wasn't going
Speaker 4: to have another year like this, because she's had five
Speaker 4: years like this prior. And this library of images comes
Speaker 4: up in her head and it makes her feel so
Speaker 4: shit about herself that that shame takes a hold, and
Speaker 4: then she needs to avoid the shame. So she goes
Speaker 4: to the pantry and in the pantry is a little
Speaker 4: packet of that's hidden up the back so the kids
Speaker 4: can't see them, and it's mint slices, and the packet
Speaker 4: hasn't yet been opened because she bought them today, this afternoon.
Speaker 4: Wall Is, she wasn't going to open them though they're
Speaker 4: just thearing the case, the kids need a snack. But
Speaker 4: the shame is so big and it's so unwieldy by
Speaker 4: this time that she needs a band aid. So she
Speaker 4: eats half the packet of mint slices. And then on
Speaker 4: top of that this internal rage, this internal anger at
Speaker 4: herself that she's done it again, and what happens is
Speaker 4: a continuation of the erosion between herself and herself. No
Speaker 4: one else is involved in this, Sam, You know that
Speaker 4: because you've seen this with your clients, right. No one
Speaker 4: else sees or hears this. It's just her with her.
Speaker 2: Wow. It's honestly like you were privy to hundreds of
Speaker 2: conversations that I've had over twenty two years, or in
Speaker 2: the actual home of those people. And I know it
Speaker 2: is because you've had those conversations too, and it's something
Speaker 2: you intimately understand. But I don't think you could have
Speaker 2: described it better. Honestly, I think there will be thousands
Speaker 2: of natalies listening right now, nodding right now, whether it's
Speaker 2: five years or ten years or fifteen years, or two
Speaker 2: kilos or fifteen kilos, whatever their Natalie situation is. And
Speaker 2: I hope there aren't Natalie is listening who are getting offended?
Speaker 1: But what does Natalie do?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you'd know this from the homes that you've
Speaker 4: stood in, the gyms that you've stood in with a
Speaker 4: woman standing in front of you on the verge of
Speaker 4: tears telling you the same story, because that story is
Speaker 4: so incredibly painful. No change ever happens from Shane. Actually, no,
Speaker 4: let me rephrase that, No sustained change ever happens from
Speaker 4: shame until we actually address that to begin with. Then
Speaker 4: you're constantly chasing an invisible measuring stick of your worthiness.
Speaker 4: That is bullshit. So the first thing we must acknowledge
Speaker 4: is that you are worthy for being you, just for existing.
Speaker 4: And the second thing we need to look at is
Speaker 4: you're not changing because you need to because there is
Speaker 4: something wrong with you, because there is a part of
Speaker 4: you that is defective. No, you're changing because you want
Speaker 4: to run around with the kids in the backyard because
Speaker 4: it's actually much bloody easier to get up off the
Speaker 4: floor when your knees don't hurt, it's because you actually
Speaker 4: really want to walk dog because you enjoy it, because
Speaker 4: there's whipbirds that sing outside and it makes you feel
Speaker 4: like you're truly living. You want to change because your
Speaker 4: eighty year old self is looking back at you right
Speaker 4: now and says, isn't there a little bit more to life?
Speaker 4: That's why you want to change. So we change from
Speaker 4: that place. We don't change from a place of shame.
Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed that little bonus episode. If you have any.
Speaker 2: People that you would like to hear us speak to,
Speaker 2: please send three your suggestions. You can do that through
Speaker 2: the Woodlie Facebook page or Instagram account. Just send us
Speaker 2: a message, or you can send us a voice message
Speaker 2: with the link in the bio and pottle Kiss