1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Today, I'm a Happy Families podcast, an interview that I 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: am more excited about than just about any conversation I've 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: ever had. On the podcast, we're going to talk to 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: Emma McKee. And Emma is Australia's most decorated Olympic athlete ever, 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: with fourteen medals all up, six golds and a whole 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: lot of silvers and bronze. Emma has competed at the 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: Olympics in Rio, Tokyo and Paris, a bunch of Commonwealth 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Games as well, and she joins me today after retiring 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: from Olympic and competitive swimming approximately six weeks ago, to 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: talk about parenting kids in sports more generally and all 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: things swimming and achievement goal oriented. Emma, thank you so 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: much for being with me on the Happy Families Podcast. 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: You started swimming at a really young age. What kept 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: you coming back to the pool when so many other 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: kids dropping out of sport? I mean, we know that 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: there's a precipitous decline in kids staying in sport once 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: they get into their teenage years. But you just kept 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: going even though you'd started young. What kept you coming back? 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: I definitely still had a lot of friends in there. 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: Even though there were a lot of friends that were 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: dropping out, and I would also stop and start a lot. 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: I wasn't enjoying it, putting too much pressure on myself 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: or that kind of thing. And I think what ended 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: up with me coming back was my parents because they 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: were very relaxed about it all. They never pressured me 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: either way to swim or not to swim, or to 28 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: achieve or perform or anything. They just wanted me to 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: enjoy what I was doing and be happy in what 30 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: I was doing, find something I was passionate about. So 31 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: I think that's what brought me back all the time. 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: This is a really big deal, and I'm so glad 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: that you brought your parents straight into it, because any 34 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: parent who's listening to this conversation is going to be saying, oh, 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: but I really want my kids to achieve. I want 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: them to set goals. I want them to be not 37 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: just competent, but I want them to excel somewhere. And 38 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: as a parent, you sit there on assembly and you 39 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: watch your kids get the sports Star of the year, 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: or you watch everyone else's kids get it, and you think, 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: what am I doing wrong? Your dad won medals at 42 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: Commonwealth Games like He's. You've got a really strong swimming 43 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: pedigree in your family. So many parents struggle with knowing 44 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: how much to push and when to pull back with 45 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: their kids, especially when it comes to sport. How did 46 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: your parents get this balance right? Why did this work 47 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: for you? 48 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: I think it was definitely the balance. It was like 49 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: not pushing me to do a certain thing and not 50 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything like that. 51 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that young age, 52 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: because I think they knew that if there's something that 53 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: I love and that I enjoy and it's coming from me, 54 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: then that means the longer that I'll be doing it 55 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 2: for and for them, Like they wanted me to learn 56 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: how to swim from a young age, and then it 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: was all kind of directed by me and they encouraged that. 58 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: But it's that fine balance. And then also having the 59 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: balance then allowed me to be self determined and have 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: the self want to set goals and move ahead and 61 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 2: things like that. 62 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: So I'm listening to what you're saying and reading between 63 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: the lines just a little bit. You're talking about encouragement. 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: You're talking about how they allowed you to make these choices. 65 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: But if I'm understanding you correctly, that would indicate that 66 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: there was still involvement. It's not like they said, hey, Emma, 67 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: to your life, do what you want. It sounds to 68 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: me like they were involved in conversations with you consistently 69 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: about what you were doing. What were those conversations like? 70 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: Because I can imagine, especially again, having a dad who's 71 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: got this sort of background. I can imagine him watching 72 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: you go to a race, or showing up to training 73 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: and seeing you swim in the pool. I mean, he 74 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: owned a swim school for goodness sakes. I would imagine 75 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: that it would have been hard for him to not say, hey, Emma, 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: you need to stretch out more with your right arm, 77 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: or I want you to work on your bilateral breathing. 78 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: I can imagine him saying, your kick's not quite right. 79 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: He wants to give you that coaching. Have they tread 80 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: that line in terms of being involved and encouraging and 81 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: yet not going too far, not pushing. That's that's something 82 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: that so many parents really struggle with. 83 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well my dad was actually my coach, so he 84 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: was giving me those tips. Yeah. From about I think 85 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: I started swimming with him and his squad when I 86 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: was about thirteen, So before that I had other coaches 87 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: and mini squad coaches and things like that. And then 88 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: from about thirteen, I think it was thirteen, I moved 89 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: to my dad's squad and so he was giving me 90 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: those tips. But for him it was, you know, it 91 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: was much harder for him than it was for me 92 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: to have my dad as my coach, because it was 93 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: amazing and I'm so lucky that I have my dad 94 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: who was my coach, and how he managed it all 95 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: because he balanced the father and coach extremely well, and 96 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: as soon as we left the pool, he's my dad 97 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: and at the pool he is also my dad. So yeah, 98 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: it was very hard for him to balance, I think, 99 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: but it was more like he knew if there was 100 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 2: a goal that I had that i'd set for myself, 101 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: then he knew, this is what you have to do 102 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: to get there, and then it's up to me to 103 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: make that happen, and he'll affist that. And then my mom, 104 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: she was a swimmer as well, so she knew all 105 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: about swimming, and I guess just knew how to I 106 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: think knew my personality that as soon as I leave 107 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: the pool, I'm you know, a normal kid as. 108 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: A teenager, I grew up swimming. My parents forced me 109 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: to do it. I just wanted to go surfing, but 110 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: I swam at a reasonable level. In fact, one of 111 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: the guys that I competed against went and won an 112 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: Olympic goal in a relay. But I was the kid 113 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: who I didn't set goals at all. I had no 114 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: interest in setting goals. In fact, my only goal was 115 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: to get to the other end of the pool so 116 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: I could jump out and go and spend ten minutes 117 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: in the toilet so I didn't have to swim the laps. 118 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: You've talked about how you're the one that's setting the goals. 119 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: Did your parents say, do you have any goals? Did 120 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: they encourage you to set goals? What was that process? 121 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: Because clearly, if you've got a vision that you're working towards, 122 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: that's going to help you to be inspired to keep 123 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: on pushing. So who was in charge of that goal 124 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: setting and how much were your parents involved in what 125 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: you decided? 126 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: It was mostly set by me. Like from a young age, 127 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: I wanted to go to the Olympics and be like 128 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: the people that I was watching race on television, and 129 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: so then me saying that, and my parents, I guess 130 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: hearing me say that, then they could just encourage what 131 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: that was, what that goal was. And when you're young, 132 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: like that's like the big dream, it's not really like 133 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 2: a goal, whereas the goals are those short term type 134 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: things like I want to make this qualifying time to 135 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: get to the state championships and things like that. Yeah, 136 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: it was mostly driven by me and then encouraged by them. 137 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: So here's the follow up question to that. Because my 138 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: kids will often tell me that they've got a goal. 139 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: Their goal is to wake up this many days a 140 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: week at such and such a time and go for 141 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: a run, or go for a swim, or do something 142 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: that's healthy for them physically. Or they've got an academic 143 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: goal they want to get a certain grade and a 144 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: certain subject. And then as a parent, I see them 145 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: not getting up and not doing the work that's necessary 146 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: to get the goal. So they expressed the goal, it's 147 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: their goal, not mine, and now they're not doing the 148 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: work for it. Did you ever do that, and if so, 149 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: how did your parents respond? Did they have to say, hey, Emma, 150 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: you told us that you wanted to do this, and 151 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: now you're not doing the work, like do you want 152 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: it or do you not want it? Or do they 153 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: just stand back? 154 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: I do it all the time. Like when I was 155 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: like you know, still at school and everything, I would 156 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: not get out of bed, oh, like often to go 157 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: to training, but it was always like I had to 158 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: set my alarm and like me and my dad and 159 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: my brother, we were going off to training together a 160 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: quarter to five in the morning, and if you're not 161 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: downstairs by ten to five when we're leaving, then that 162 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: means you're not coming. And then I would get the 163 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: feeling myself of like guilt that I didn't get up 164 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: because I know I need to and know I want 165 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: to achieve these things, and then I'd have to sit 166 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: in that feeling, and then eventually you learn I don't 167 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: want to have that feeling, so get up and go. 168 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: But then my dad being like that and that you 169 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: have to set your alarm and be downstairs at that time. 170 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: That taught me the self determination and you know you're 171 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: doing it for you, You're doing it because you want to, 172 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: and this is what you have to do to get 173 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: what you want, which is like I've carried that through 174 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: my whole career and will for My whole life is 175 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: like that. Self discipline and accountability and things like that. 176 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: You've used the term self determination a couple of times. 177 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: The theory that all of my parenting work is based 178 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: on is called self determination theory, and it's a profoundly 179 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: valuable psychological theory that argues that we will have when 180 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: we have to be compelled to do something is because 181 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: we're in an environment where our psychological needs are not 182 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: being But when we are doing things with a high 183 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: level of commitment, we're doing those things because how psychological 184 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: needs are being supported. Those needs are. We need to 185 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: have good relationships with the people with whom we're doing 186 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: that activity. We need to feel a sense of competence 187 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: and capability, or at least that we're progressing towards competence. Last, 188 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: and I think the lynchpin to the whole thing is 189 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: this thing called autonomy. We have to be doing it 190 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: because we're choosing it, rather than because it's being forced 191 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: upon me. As I listen to your story, here's what 192 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm hearing. I'm hearing Emma mckeirn, Australia's most decorated Olympian ever, 193 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: saying I liked the people that I was there with 194 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: because they were my friends, no Am, my family. I 195 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: was good at it and knew that I was getting 196 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: better because I was getting a high quality of instruction 197 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: and therefore and I was able to measure my progress 198 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: and see my improvements and my increase in capability, capacity, competence, 199 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: and ultimately this came down to me. I was the 200 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: one who was choosing it. It feels like this is 201 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: the very core of what your success has been, being 202 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: an environment that's suppor those needs. 203 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, supports the needs and then also supports from the 204 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: young age. It has to support the enjoyment is the 205 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: first thing. And then while you are enjoying it, you're 206 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: learning all these other skills of turning up on time 207 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: and working hard on your little skills, and you're learning 208 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: all these other skills that you are then going to 209 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: need as you get older. But the enjoyment part is 210 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: the focus we're getting young, Evan. 211 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: We often hear about the sacrifices that athletes make up 212 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: and down the pool, staring at that black line hour 213 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: after hour after hour, but we rarely hear about the joy. 214 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: What were some of the most enjoyable aspects of your 215 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: journey to Olympic glory that parents might want to create 216 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,119 Speaker 1: for their own children in sport. 217 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: I mean it's different from when I'm young, when I 218 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 2: was young to when I was older. When I was older, 219 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: it was having the things that are all reflect John 220 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: is having my family in the stands at the Olympics 221 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: or World Championships and knowing they're there and you know, 222 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: they've traveled around the world to watch me and share 223 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: me on and support me, and knowing that whether I 224 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: do well, whether I don't do well, like they know 225 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: whether I'm going to be happy or not with my performance, 226 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: but they're the same no matter what as well. So 227 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: that's one of the fun and enjoyable and special parts. 228 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: And then when I was young the fun things that 229 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: it's a social part, like traveling around two different meats 230 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: and things with my friends and playing handball and seeing 231 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: what I can do once I got in for the 232 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: race but then got out and I'm you know, being 233 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: social and hanging out with my friends. 234 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: Those three words no matter what are particularly meaningful to me. 235 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: It's something that I emphasize a lot when I'm talking 236 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: to parents. I just love that, but I also love 237 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: for that younger element. There's a recurring theme in this conversation, 238 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: that is, my parents didn't push me, and when I 239 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: wasn't swimming, I was just being a kid having fun 240 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: with my friends. Like handball. You go to the meet 241 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: so you can see everyone and play handball, and oh, yeah, 242 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: I've got to go and swim those races. That's the 243 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: feeling that I'm getting from you. 244 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, that's what kept me. That's what brought me 245 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 2: the enjoyment and kept me going when I was young. 246 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: Emma, if you look back at your teenage years and 247 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: you're swimming there, what would you wish for for every 248 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: young athlete from their coaches and parents? What do you 249 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: wish that more coaches and parents understood about the children, 250 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: the adolescents that their coaching or encouraging to to do well. 251 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: I think it's from that really young age it's not 252 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: pushing kids too hard, and not in swimming or in 253 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: other sports, but for swimming as a sport that I know, 254 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: not making them do kilometers and kilometers of swimming and 255 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: laps up to lapse, and I don't think that's healthy 256 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 2: from a really young age. It's got to be the enjoyment. 257 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: You've got to find the love for it, because that's 258 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: what's going to keep you going for longer. It's got 259 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: to be, like I was saying earlier, the enjoyment and 260 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: then teaching those small that ended up being quite big 261 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: skills of paying attention to the little details or turning 262 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: up on time, or working well with your teammates and 263 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But the focus has got to 264 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: be that enjoyment because kids, Well, for me, I know, 265 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: I hated doing life after life after that when I 266 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: had to do it. And if I was doing k's 267 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: and k's when I was young, I would not have 268 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: made it through anywhere close to what I have. 269 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: Well, your family, as we've already identified, has a really 270 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: rich swimming heritage. How do you think that influenced your 271 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: relationship with the sport And was there ever a time 272 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: where you just thought, no, I want to I want 273 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: to get away from swimming because this is what my 274 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: family is known for and I don't want to do that. Like, 275 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: was there ever any resistance for you? 276 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: There was a little bit, but that kind of came 277 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: from me, Like I never felt any pressure because my 278 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: family was in swimming or anything like that to do it. 279 00:13:53,840 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: But different times, like I guess I thought that I didn't. 280 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: I want to kind of get away from it a 281 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: little bit during my teenage years and things, but I 282 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: think I eventually realized, no, I do love this and 283 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 2: it's such a special thing to be able to do 284 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 2: with my family. 285 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: I love that you realize that. 286 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 287 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, that's the that's the key. Okay, Emma, 288 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: do you have the mental capacity for a lightning round? 289 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: I've just had a coffee, so help, I'm so. 290 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: Ready for this. You know the deal? A lightning round? 291 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: First thing that comes into your mind. Very short answers. 292 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if you need to elaborate, you can, but 293 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: looking for the quick instant response. Question number one. First 294 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: thing you do when you wake up, make a copy 295 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: even before a swim. Yeah, most embarrassing pool deck moment. 296 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: Maybe diving in and doing butterfly when I meant to 297 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: do freestyle and then switching over. 298 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: That would be embarrassing. I apresume they disqualify you for that. 299 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 300 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you were to swimmer, what sport would you 301 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: have pursued? 302 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: Surfing? Hurican? 303 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: Do you shred? 304 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: Not? Now? I never did it, actually, but I loved 305 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: it when I was like around fifteen. 306 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: Surfing is my sport. 307 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: Oh is it? I love it? 308 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely love it. Emma mcke and your favorite post race. 309 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: Meal a burger and chip. 310 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: So healthy. That's not what I was expecting at all. 311 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: Most played song on your warm up list some Beyonce. 312 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: We're a superstition that you've adopted before a race. 313 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: I don't have any superstitions. 314 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: With a superstition you've heard about and you are welcome 315 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: to name the athlete. 316 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: I've heard about people not wanting to stand on a 317 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: crack like in the ground. 318 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: Wow, because that's going to slow them down that much? Yeah, amazing. 319 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: What's a better feeling breaking a world record or eating 320 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: pizza after months. 321 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: Of training breaking a world record? 322 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. What's the most unusual place 323 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: that you've done a workout? 324 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: Maybe a hotel room or I mean during COVID we 325 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: were working out in all kinds of strange places. 326 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd imagine. What's your go to karaoke song? 327 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: Maybe it's an abba. 328 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: Most memorable goggle malfunction moment. 329 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: Probably when you just dive in and they just come 330 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: down to your neck. They've just put some water. 331 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: Does that happen often? I mean, there's that legendary story 332 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: about Michael Phelps goggles filling up with water, but he 333 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: counted his strokes and still said a world record. Is 334 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: it a regular thing. I mean, I'm a swimmer, but 335 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: I never have issues with my goggles. 336 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: It can happen. It can happen, but I like, before 337 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: I will race or before I'll dive in, I'm pressing 338 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: them so hard on my face to make sure it 339 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I bet. 340 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, this is kind of a tricky lightning round question, 341 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: but I love to ask it. Welcome to take as 342 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: long as you need to think through the best piece 343 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: of advice that you've ever ignored. 344 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: After Tokyo, I continued to race. I took a small 345 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 2: break and then tried to keep racing again. And probably 346 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 2: I needed to come home and not race because I 347 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: was so mentally drained and burnt out. And I ignored 348 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: that and stayed over. He's racing. 349 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: So the advice was take a breather, let your body recover, 350 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: and you just said. 351 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 2: No, and I didn't do that. Yeah. 352 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: Interesting, obviously retirement now, but when you were competing, what 353 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: was the longest you would go without getting in a pool. 354 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 2: After an Olympics, I'd off and take about three to 355 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: four months off. 356 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: That's a much bigger gap than I expected. 357 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's but that's only once every four years 358 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: or five years after to chat. 359 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: If you could instantly master any skill outside of swimming, 360 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: what would that be? 361 00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: Singing? Huh? 362 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: How do you go? How do you really? 363 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 364 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: So abbot karaoke is wonderfully terrible, wonderfully entertaining. Is the 365 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: word terrible? Just delightfully fun? Two questions to go? First 366 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: gold medal or last gold medal? Which one meant more? 367 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: The first one because it's something I job sits I 368 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: was very little, like five years old. And then in 369 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 2: Rio it was on the first night of the swimming 370 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: standing on top of the podium. It's just such a 371 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: surreal experience and you don't, like, you imagine what it 372 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: might feel like, but just actually standing there is a 373 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: whole nother, a whole other feeling. 374 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: Does the feeling of winning gold, setting a world record? 375 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: Does the feeling diminish over time because you have done 376 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: it so many times, especially compared to most athletes. Do 377 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: you kind of get to the point where you're like, yep, 378 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: expected it, Yep, did it? Box ticked what's next? Or 379 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: is it one of those things where you really do 380 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: in that moment every time and think, oh my goodness, 381 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: fastest ever. 382 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: The feeling is just as surreal and just as special 383 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: every single time. But I would say there's also that 384 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 2: element of Okay, what's next, what more can I do? 385 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: Which is part of being an athlete or part of 386 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: my experience as an athlete, always wanting to be better. So 387 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: that was something I had to like juggle because you 388 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: need to be able to sit in it and feel 389 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: crowd and all the good feelings. 390 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your early swimming again, because 391 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: most parents who are listening to this are going to 392 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: have kids who were twelve and younger or fourteen and 393 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: younger who were involved in sport, and quite often kids 394 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: are having high levels of anxiety before they compete in 395 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: a race, or before they go out and play a 396 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: big game, or before they sit down and do an exam. 397 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: You've spoken about experiencing anxiety before races, mostly big races, 398 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: which makes sense. When you were younger, did you feel 399 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: that same sort of pressure. Was there anxiety before you 400 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: swam when you were a twelve year old or a 401 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: sixteen year old. 402 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely still nervous when I was young, and 403 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: that's just because I cared about what I was about 404 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 2: to do and didn't know what I might be about 405 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: to do. And so the nerves are actually were same 406 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 2: whether whether I was at a state level meet or 407 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 2: through to when I eventually was at in the Olympic. 408 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 2: So nerves are nerves and that's what it is. 409 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: So if a parents talking to their child, and their 410 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: child's saying, I'm just so nervous and I'm really anxious. 411 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can compete or I don't know 412 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: if I'm going to do any any good, what would 413 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: you say, like, how did you develop the mental tools 414 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: to manage those big moments. What advice would you give 415 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: to any young athletes who are saying, I'm just I'm 416 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: facing all this pressure, I don't know if I can 417 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: do it. 418 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: I think it's refraining it in your head and seeing 419 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 2: the nerves is a good thing. The nerves are like 420 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 2: little doubts of energy that you can use in your race, 421 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: and nerves are showing you that you care. Nerves are 422 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 2: showing you that you're doing something brave and worthwhile, and 423 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: I think it's reframing it in more of a positive way. 424 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: There's a psychological strategy called self distancing, and in so 425 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: many ways you've just described what they is. Is okay? 426 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: A couple more questions, Emma, you've achieved extraordinary success. Everybody 427 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: knows that, but what I'd like to know is what 428 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: role failure played in your development? 429 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 2: A huge amount. The I think the failure is Everyone 430 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 2: says it, but it's really true, is the failure is 431 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: what has taught me the most. It's taught me how 432 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: to get back up again. It's taught me how to 433 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: pay attention to what can I do better next time. 434 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: It's given me motivation at times, and it's taught me 435 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: a lot about myself as well. So and like managing 436 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 2: managing it and being disappointed because disappoint it's okay to 437 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: be disappointed when you do fail because you care, and 438 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: then being able to put it aside and move on 439 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: forward and try again next time. Missing the London twenty 440 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: twelve team for Olympics. I missed that one by zero 441 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: point one of a second. So that was definitely a 442 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 2: big factor in my career because I think had I 443 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: made that team, the story would have been very different. 444 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: To what it is now. But I missed that team. 445 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,959 Speaker 2: I ended up stopping swimming. I didn't want to wait 446 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: another four years to go to the Olympics all that 447 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 2: kind of thing. And then eventually learned from lessons I 448 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: had to learn, and then came back into the spot, 449 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 2: into the sport, and you know, I had to learn 450 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 2: about that. I had to pay more attention to the 451 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: small things. I had to be turning up every session, 452 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: and like when I was there, I would always work hard, 453 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 2: but I had to turn up more often. And then 454 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: I had to also learn how to deal with the 455 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: pressure I was putting on myself as well. 456 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of parents worry about the 457 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: children becoming two one dimensional and pursuit of their sporting excellence. 458 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the parents pushing them. Other times though, it's 459 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: kids that are really really focused themselves. What did you 460 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: do to maintain balance while you're pursuing those goals? 461 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 2: All through teenage years, I was doing a bit of everything, 462 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: Like I was setting big goals, and those big goals 463 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: time is qualifying for a meet or doing a PB 464 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: or things like that in swimming. But I was doing 465 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 2: a bit of everything. I was doing basketball, dancing, whatever 466 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: I wanted to try, like I was doing piano, So 467 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: there was that balance across a lot of activities. 468 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much research that says, don't concentrate on 469 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: one thing too hard, too soon, Just do stuff, experience 470 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: a range of activity, breadth of activity, and then as 471 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: you get older, zero internet and everything you've said seems 472 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: to point in that direction. My final question if there 473 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: is a parent who really wants their child to succeed 474 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: and their child does not seem to have the get 475 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: up and go that and Emma McKean clearly demonstrated with 476 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: that wonderful self determining approach to life and specifically to 477 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: your sport, what would you say to that parent. 478 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: I think, once you've told the kid that to get 479 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: somewhere you have to work hard at it, once the 480 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: kid knows that they have to learn that from them else. 481 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: But also maybe they haven't found the thing that they're 482 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 2: passionate about to make them want to get up and 483 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 2: go yet. 484 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: Make it about the child rather than about you. 485 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 486 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: Evan mckairn really appreciate your generosity in chatting with me. 487 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: Thank you, all right, thank you, it's good chat. 488 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: The happy families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 489 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. If you like the podcast, can we invite 490 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: you to take twenty seconds out of your day. It's 491 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: literally that quick twenty seconds. Leave us a rating and review. 492 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: We like the five star ones the best by the 493 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: way they genuinely help people to find the show and 494 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: make their family happier. Resources and ideas to help your 495 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: family thrive are available at happyfamilies dot com dot au.