Speaker 1: I'm always always.
Speaker 2: Be careful.
Speaker 3: Love those U books.
Speaker 1: Let well use your head, they will tear you up.
Speaker 1: Lack a purple talk.
Speaker 2: Oh no no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, oh no
Speaker 2: no no. Hi, I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby.
Speaker 3: Welcome to It's lay It.
Speaker 2: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty
Speaker 2: years ago when we were in high school.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything
Speaker 1: and everything else under the sun.
Speaker 2: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know.
Speaker 3: My layers.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: No no, Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new
Speaker 2: episode of It's Layered. We're in season five, y'all, Season five,
Speaker 2: can you believe? Yeah, it's crazy to imagine. And we're
Speaker 2: so so excited because today we have a very special
Speaker 2: guest in the Heeza. We've got doctor what's a nine
Speaker 2: Montcy Muela. I don't know if I said that right.
Speaker 2: He's just sorry, sorry, sorry.
Speaker 1: To let me just be chopping names now.
Speaker 3: Please correct me.
Speaker 2: She's, as I mentioned, a doctor. She's currently studying general medicine.
Speaker 2: She's based out of Austria and Vienna, and she also
Speaker 2: has an incredible show called Dating Around the world, which
Speaker 2: is why we brought her on here and I welcome
Speaker 2: to its laired.
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much for having me, And don't
Speaker 3: worry about like saying my name wrong. I say it
Speaker 3: wrong all the time, so yeah, no, honestly, because you're
Speaker 3: like here, like the mulla is like pronounced like with
Speaker 3: the mulla or whatever. Anyway, Okay, okay, thank you so
Speaker 3: much for having me.
Speaker 2: We're so excited. We go way back with what's and
Speaker 2: I from high school. Actually we're just laughing at how yo,
Speaker 2: how far back that was? We won't many years ago.
Speaker 2: And she's just an incredible person. You'll hear a bit
Speaker 2: more about.
Speaker 3: What she's doing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's get right into it once.
Speaker 1: We love to have you on and we love your
Speaker 1: show obviously, but can you describe the inspiration behind your
Speaker 1: YouTube series Dating around the World.
Speaker 3: Yes, so, thank you so much for loving it and
Speaker 3: for watching it. I would say generally, whatever you do
Speaker 3: in your life, you also have to look based on
Speaker 3: your personality and how you are as a person. And
Speaker 3: I think I was always interested in relationships and love,
Speaker 3: and I feel that I had a very liberal mother
Speaker 3: who sort of like encourage that, you know what, I mean,
Speaker 3: so she wasn't like a name's scans wow whatever. She
Speaker 3: was like, you know, she's interested in finding out different cultures,
Speaker 3: different ways of dating in different countries. And I think
Speaker 3: I did the same thing in my life. So I
Speaker 3: lived in different countries, and in every country I was in,
Speaker 3: I did date a person from that country or maybe
Speaker 3: someone from another country in that country. And it was
Speaker 3: very fascinating to find out how much I learned about
Speaker 3: a different culture just through love, through relationships, the love language.
Speaker 3: It was just for me something that is maybe more
Speaker 3: fascinating than it should be, you know, but it was
Speaker 3: definitely something that was interesting. And then I think when
Speaker 3: I moved to Austria, and I moved to Austria because
Speaker 3: I met my husband at an airport, so it's very
Speaker 3: much sort of like it's.
Speaker 2: On brand exactly.
Speaker 3: I moved Touse, I met my husband at the airport.
Speaker 3: You know, it was a really fun romance story. And
Speaker 3: then it was kind of like a shock when I
Speaker 3: moved here. And I think, maybe perhaps we'll get into
Speaker 3: that a bit later, but I was shocked at how
Speaker 3: little people knew in general about Africa or even just
Speaker 3: about I suppose other countries that were not European countries.
Speaker 3: So let's say, for example, one day, I was sitting
Speaker 3: with some women. There were actually black women, but they're
Speaker 3: growing up in the UK and they've grown up here
Speaker 3: in Vienna as well, and we were talking about you know, TLC,
Speaker 3: you know, the ninety day Fiance TLC, and they were like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, you know ANGELI and I don't know
Speaker 3: if a Nigerian boyfriend, I don't know what his name is.
Speaker 3: You know, it was basically like they were talking about
Speaker 3: how ratchet that whole situation was, and you know, ninety
Speaker 3: day Fiance basically portrays people in the most heeoytypical way possible,
Speaker 3: especially people from developing countries. And I remember that suddenly,
Speaker 3: I don't know when they realized, I suppose that I'm African.
Speaker 3: The conversation just got a little bit weird because they
Speaker 3: looked at me and I was agreeing that, oh my god,
Speaker 3: that's so crazy, and then I think for a second
Speaker 3: they were like, oh my god, she's African as well,
Speaker 3: and it was just sort of like an awkwardness. It
Speaker 3: was like an awkwardness that just came and then it
Speaker 3: just immediately left. But then it made me realize that
Speaker 3: they also had like seroitized probably about me, probably about
Speaker 3: my own relationship with my husband and so. And then
Speaker 3: I thought, probably they think like that because they're also
Speaker 3: living in their own like sort of like propaganda and
Speaker 3: everything that's going on here. You know, propaganda's like rife
Speaker 3: and it's like really really like a life here in
Speaker 3: Western Europe as well. And so I was like, let
Speaker 3: me show them. I'm going to show them that, you know,
Speaker 3: the different cultures that we come from, especially within the
Speaker 3: you know, African society, are so much deeper than whatever's
Speaker 3: portrayed out there. And yeah, that's where the inspiration came.
Speaker 3: Just I love traveling. It's fun and also at the
Speaker 3: same time, I just wanted to, you know, just bother
Speaker 3: the stereotypes.
Speaker 2: That's great because I think you've already touched on my
Speaker 2: next question, which is how you even came to think
Speaker 2: of incorporating your love for travel and I guess for
Speaker 2: dating and understanding the world of dating. How did you
Speaker 2: conceptually decide were you like, Okay, next time I go
Speaker 2: on holiday, I'm just going to do a little bit
Speaker 2: of investigation. Because your show is more than just chatting
Speaker 2: to people on the streets. You also talk to different
Speaker 2: professionals where the psychologists or you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 2: how did how do you think of like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: want to debunk these myths.
Speaker 3: How do I do it?
Speaker 2: How did you come to?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, first of all, I feel like dating and
Speaker 3: traveling are like two of some of the greatest pleasures
Speaker 3: in life in general. So I feel like when you
Speaker 3: combine that, it's just so much fun. And I'm when
Speaker 3: I'm whenever I'm on a holiday, I want to talk
Speaker 3: to people because when you and I know you both
Speaker 3: know this, if you've lived somewhere, or even if you
Speaker 3: have and I don't know, if you're cure is then
Speaker 3: you sort of like understand the culture from different cultures
Speaker 3: from a different perspective. And so when you travel somewhere,
Speaker 3: you're only somewhere for like five days or three days,
Speaker 3: it almost feels so superficial. Your impressions almost feel so
Speaker 3: superficial on the surface that I was craving just getting
Speaker 3: to know more about those cultures. So it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: you know what, I need to go out there and
Speaker 3: ask questions because I'm just I like to be, you know,
Speaker 3: just curious like me. People in the buildiness anyway, but
Speaker 3: not like that. But but I wanted to just yeah,
Speaker 3: not to pry, but I wanted to find out more
Speaker 3: but from the people themselves, you know. And so and
Speaker 3: I also thought, like, my opinion is just my opinion,
Speaker 3: and whatever people say on the street is just what
Speaker 3: they say on the street. But let's talk to maybe
Speaker 3: different people who like professionals, who actually get to talk
Speaker 3: to these people who understand the different layers they are
Speaker 3: in the society in which they're in, so that we
Speaker 3: can actually get like a full picture of what it's like.
Speaker 3: That's why. That's that's really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so. It's such a lid thing. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing people just think dating ah Romy
Speaker 1: and Juliet or like two people just meet and fall
Speaker 1: in love, And yes, of course that can happen, but
Speaker 1: there's so many things that come into it, like culture, politics,
Speaker 1: economic psychology. As you say on your show, how do
Speaker 1: you personally think all those things? How much of those
Speaker 1: things affect dating, especially in different countries?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I feel like we're Zimbabwean, so we
Speaker 3: already understand that. Anyway. I feel like we don't even
Speaker 3: have to get into it so much, like it's just
Speaker 3: being Zimbabwean, knowing the political situation which you come from,
Speaker 3: knowing the economic situation which we come from, and then
Speaker 3: putting all the economic pressure as well. I mean, when
Speaker 3: I was in Zimbabwe and I was talking to people,
Speaker 3: what they were just saying is I can't get married
Speaker 3: because I can't afford it, or I can't find someone
Speaker 3: who wants to marry me because there's lobala. Is they
Speaker 3: have possibility? Is it possible? Maybe they just convince the
Speaker 3: parents to not need lobola so I can just get
Speaker 3: married married, Yes, exactly. So when you look at that,
Speaker 3: you look at how politics affects economy, which then affects dating.
Speaker 3: You don't even have to get into politics to understand
Speaker 3: that the situation in the country is not okay. You
Speaker 3: just have to ask people how your love life and
Speaker 3: you'll find it out. Even in Portugal, they'll be like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: you know, it's difficult because that kind of bored life,
Speaker 3: you know, And then you find out, okay, fine, the
Speaker 3: economy is not so good. Then you look at the politics,
Speaker 3: and so you can touch on so many different topics
Speaker 3: without necessarily getting so deep into the politics. So someemople
Speaker 3: don't want to do that. So many people don't want
Speaker 3: to talk about economics. It's boring for them. But maybe
Speaker 3: you can pay attention to it. If you look at
Speaker 3: it in this way, maybe you can understand it a
Speaker 3: bit better. This is what I was thinking. And you know,
Speaker 3: even if you look at Japan, and if you look
Speaker 3: at China, and China they had the one child policy.
Speaker 3: And I remember I had friends who this one child
Speaker 3: policy cause people to be so strict and so obsessive
Speaker 3: with the children that they had. So basically, if he
Speaker 3: had a daughter, you'd be like, you know what, my
Speaker 3: daughter's not gonna get married to anybody who doesn't have
Speaker 3: enough money for a house or for an apartment. And
Speaker 3: so I had friends who would fall in love with men,
Speaker 3: but the minute he couldn't afford to buy an apartment
Speaker 3: or a house, they'd be like, yeah, I love him,
Speaker 3: but like he doesn't have a car, and he kind
Speaker 3: of and I'm like, okay, this is really deep because
Speaker 3: it's just like that, just like that, you just it's okay,
Speaker 3: you don't really need to have anything to do with him,
Speaker 3: just because he can't afford it. And that was because
Speaker 3: also of the politics that this one child's policy, and
Speaker 3: so it really it's all interconnected at the end of
Speaker 3: the day. And even if you gut Sweden, it's a
Speaker 3: liberal society, very very very liberal society. And then so
Speaker 3: they have this like hyper feminism going on. And I'm
Speaker 3: a feminist all the way, but Sweden has like is
Speaker 3: like a high for a femininist society. So it's like,
Speaker 3: don't open the door for me, what are you trying
Speaker 3: to do? Get angry? Yeah, Like are you saying I
Speaker 3: couldn't have opened it for myself? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And also where marriage, marriage is not a big deal anymore,
Speaker 2: Like it's not even a it's not a consideration. I
Speaker 2: think even here in the Czech Republic it's not a
Speaker 2: big getting married don't mean nothing really at the end
Speaker 2: of the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it even bleeds into it, I mean, coming
Speaker 1: from a parent point of view, parental leave and stuff.
Speaker 1: You find the more liberal like on Sweden will have
Speaker 1: like more parental leave because they believe maternal or paternal
Speaker 1: you should both influence rasas like zoom, they will be
Speaker 1: like maternity what like.
Speaker 2: You know, like yeah, exactly imagine op paternity.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're leaving your job, you come back
Speaker 1: the job if you'll be replaced my guy exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or just like what you do in the household, right,
Speaker 3: like how you operate in the household, what you know
Speaker 3: people have And also in Japan, they're just not having
Speaker 3: sex because of the fact that they don't have time. Oh,
Speaker 3: they don't have time to have sex, and so this
Speaker 3: is why the population has gone down. So people are
Speaker 3: coming home at ten pm, they don't have time to
Speaker 3: have sex. The relationship fractures. Then they open all these different.
Speaker 1: Yeah your boyfriend, yeah, yeah, yeah, or even specific I
Speaker 1: mean it's very very interesting the things that they opened there.
Speaker 3: Even their different specific little fetish cafes. You know, it's
Speaker 3: it's very fascinating, Yeah, very fascinating.
Speaker 2: It's a great segue. Is there anything that has, what
Speaker 2: would you say, surprised you the most through the series
Speaker 2: and filming and talking to people around the world, because
Speaker 2: you've been to You've been to Tanzania, you've been to Japan,
Speaker 2: as you've said, you've been to Portugal, you've been to Sweden,
Speaker 2: you've been to Malta, you've been to Paris. I don't
Speaker 2: know which other countries I'm missing out, but like you've
Speaker 2: been to a fair number of Ghana Ghana as well.
Speaker 2: What surprise the most during the series or over the
Speaker 2: course of your time.
Speaker 3: I think I was surprised in general personally by myself
Speaker 3: and how I especially when I went to other African countries,
Speaker 3: how it was such a decolonial process for me. Wow.
Speaker 3: So I feel that was probably the biggest shock, because
Speaker 3: I didn't know that I was looking at African cultures
Speaker 3: through the European lens as well. I thought I was
Speaker 3: above that, but actually I still was. So I feel
Speaker 3: like that was very shocking for me. And then it
Speaker 3: was a whole process actually on its own. So then
Speaker 3: it was like feelings of like shock and then sort
Speaker 3: of like almost anger that I didn't know all this
Speaker 3: stuff about these places, and then all because I was like,
Speaker 3: my God, like these cultures like this, the African cultures,
Speaker 3: and I don't want to be like over the topic.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful African cultures, but literally actually are so fascinating
Speaker 3: and so amazing, and I'm just shocked how much we
Speaker 3: don't know. And so I think I was surprised about
Speaker 3: how it is an act of revolution generally, if.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 3: A black person and you're going to tell your own
Speaker 3: story or you're actually going to fish stories out from
Speaker 3: the people in those countries in maybe perhaps a more
Speaker 3: authentic way. That that is already an act of revolution,
Speaker 3: because whatever is going on is usually like stereotypes and propaganda,
Speaker 3: and it is really at the moment right now, like
Speaker 3: it's a revolution, and I love it because everybody's doing
Speaker 3: it an act revolution to tell your story. I was
Speaker 3: surprised by how much that impacted me and how everybody
Speaker 3: was just sort of open to it as well.
Speaker 1: Isn't it funny we'll know so much about Western culture
Speaker 1: and not know much about our next door neighbors.
Speaker 2: It's embarrassing, like.
Speaker 1: It's actually quite bad, Like you know, I think so
Speaker 1: being in Australia, there's obviously a lot of big Asian
Speaker 1: community here and sometimes like Westerners would just brush them
Speaker 1: with the same Asians, you know, but within the Asian
Speaker 1: community they all know each other, like the Filipinos like this,
Speaker 1: ah Thai people like this. But like to another level
Speaker 1: that Africans we don't have, like we're very we're almost
Speaker 1: very colonial mind very segregated still and it's like I
Speaker 1: won't even know what's happening in Malawi. But when you
Speaker 1: look on the map, Malawi is not that far from zoom,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But it's like people people
Speaker 1: will be like, what's what happens in Malawi? And then
Speaker 1: some people will get offended. First of all, I'm not
Speaker 1: from Alawi, like you know, and it's like, okay, apart
Speaker 1: from that, do you even know? But you know everything
Speaker 1: about Sweden and Finland?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you look at that map, but.
Speaker 2: You're like I was like, had this conversation with the
Speaker 2: colleague of mine American and they were like, oh, how
Speaker 2: come you know so much? You know, you think after
Speaker 2: you colonize you'd learn more about African African cultures in
Speaker 2: Babwan culture, like you wouldn't watch so much Western media.
Speaker 2: And then I said, but you need to understand that imperialism,
Speaker 2: neo colonialism, all these things, the traits of what colonizations
Speaker 2: stood for were never erased. Like it's still heavily ingrained,
Speaker 2: and you own media for the large majority. And in
Speaker 2: terms of you think of quality, you were sold as
Speaker 2: the quality. Do you understand? So there's so much even
Speaker 2: though we say we are free, the systems were put
Speaker 2: in place so that it's not easy to just be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm flipping to know everything about you know, my home
Speaker 2: or everything around my home. You know, it's not that simple.
Speaker 2: But I guess the challenge is to do better like
Speaker 2: what wass he is doing, or.
Speaker 3: To challenge it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeahs wrong with some of don't.
Speaker 3: Thank you as well? All Yeah, I feel like I
Speaker 3: think at least it's great that like I think everybody's
Speaker 3: sort of just trying to tell their own stories, and
Speaker 3: I think it's so important and to know that, Okay, fine,
Speaker 3: you know, they're like, you know, intensanity speak. You have
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty six languages. There are hundreds and
Speaker 3: when they six languages, and they're so diverse, and they're
Speaker 3: so like they're just living in like harmony and they're fine.
Speaker 3: And so I felt like that was something to be admired.
Speaker 3: And yet, you know, whenever I see Tanzan, I just
Speaker 3: see the animals. I see people going there, but I
Speaker 3: don't people are not interested in the people. It's almost
Speaker 3: like it's a taboo topic, especially here in Europe, like
Speaker 3: oh okay, oh, okay, all let's talk. Oh Africa. Oh
Speaker 3: it's always like Africa.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh, And so I always feel I don't
Speaker 1: feel sorry for me.
Speaker 3: You know where I come from. I'm like, yeah, or.
Speaker 1: I love that animals and I'm like, okay, apart from
Speaker 1: the animals.
Speaker 2: Ruh.
Speaker 1: Obviously, obviously you've traveled lots and you've now interviewed people
Speaker 1: from different walks of life. Wait, any common themes or
Speaker 1: ideas around dating that you've noticed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess like there are some common themes. I
Speaker 3: think sex was like a very huge topic, but it's
Speaker 3: not something I touched on so much because it's always
Speaker 3: like when you interview people and then they talk about sex,
Speaker 3: they don't want to be shown on camera, but things
Speaker 3: like that. So I think there were common themes, like
Speaker 3: with economic stress and pressures and how they affect you know,
Speaker 3: people's family life. And also people talk about how finances
Speaker 3: are a huge reason and people get divorced. But then
Speaker 3: when you talk about finances, we have to dig deeper
Speaker 3: into what kind of situation that can create in the home,
Speaker 3: and in a lot of situations, maybe perhaps heres for women,
Speaker 3: they don't want to have sex with their husbands because
Speaker 3: they feel like, oh my god, you know you this
Speaker 3: is stressful. I don't know, But then for men, director
Speaker 3: dysfunction was actually like a huge topic that was already
Speaker 3: you know, but it's always like how they're communicated. It was, Yeah,
Speaker 3: then I don't feel like I want to have sex
Speaker 3: because I'm stressed out because of this financial situation. But
Speaker 3: actually how that presents itself as a rectil dysfunction, and
Speaker 3: that was more common than I thought it did actually be.
Speaker 3: So I would say, like the stresses of financial finances
Speaker 3: were always everywhere, no matter where you work, those were
Speaker 3: common things. And then sex obviously being like a common thing.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I would say that was like the
Speaker 3: most common.
Speaker 2: So many ads in Zimpo like let me fix your
Speaker 2: you know, those random like paper in the entire when
Speaker 2: you see them, they just stick it everywhere and have
Speaker 2: a place everywhere, clearly, Yeah, but they don't really deal
Speaker 2: with it in a medical or healthy way.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, and if you would
Speaker 3: also touch about about women as well, it's always like
Speaker 3: about men and they have a rectil dysfunction. But what
Speaker 3: that does, but the whole cycle is that is the
Speaker 3: whole thing, right, So.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, which country do you think or so far
Speaker 2: have you related to the most when it comes to
Speaker 2: dating as a black Zimbabwean woman and the least or
Speaker 2: the least or both.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I would say like I related to Tanzania
Speaker 3: the most because I think it's the most similar to
Speaker 3: Zimbabwe because they well, it's the most simar to Zimbabwe
Speaker 3: how Zimbabwe used to be. I feel like Zimbabwe used
Speaker 3: to be a little bit more of a place of
Speaker 3: you know that umun too. You know, we're together, we
Speaker 3: want to be peaceful. And then like because of the
Speaker 3: economic situation, everybody just like is to their own, you know,
Speaker 3: one of my friend. So I'm God for us all
Speaker 3: and so I feel like Tanzania really I related to
Speaker 3: it in a way in was a nostalgia way. It
Speaker 3: was very nice to see how everybody was just sort
Speaker 3: of like okay, you could you can walk on the street.
Speaker 3: You didn't think anybody who's going to do anything to you.
Speaker 3: Never get that feeling, right, And I feel like I
Speaker 3: related to the most how and I also was like
Speaker 3: a little bit like, oh my god, we used to
Speaker 3: be like this and the least. I don't think I
Speaker 3: related to any country like the least in any kind
Speaker 3: of way, because I feel like when you're Zimbabwean, I
Speaker 3: am Zimbabwe one hundred percent. But because I've lived in
Speaker 3: so many different places. I feel like I kind of
Speaker 3: get what everybody's saying. I understand it. I understand also
Speaker 3: like the Swedish, I get it because I also one
Speaker 3: a partner. I al wasn't want to exercise my feminism
Speaker 3: to the extent that I want, you know, I understand.
Speaker 3: So there's no the least not yet anyway, I probably
Speaker 3: will go somewhere else, but I'm going to say to me,
Speaker 3: I'm like the plane. Yeah, i'd be like this one,
Speaker 3: this one I tried. But I think when I was
Speaker 3: in Tanzania, there are two different parts. Right of the Zanzibar,
Speaker 3: I would say I related the least to the idea
Speaker 3: that like, I mean the I understand like how religion
Speaker 3: plays a role in relationships, I get it, But for
Speaker 3: me personally as a person, it didn't. I did not
Speaker 3: really relate to its completely controlling my whole relationship. You
Speaker 3: get my point. So that was maybe the least good idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, religion is a big one and lots of different
Speaker 1: cultures when it comes to love as well. Do you
Speaker 1: see a difference in how black women are perceived when
Speaker 1: you're when they're dating from country to country or when
Speaker 1: you go do you just like blanket look at women
Speaker 1: or do you specifically look to see how black women
Speaker 1: could be perceived.
Speaker 3: I do both, so like I actively try my best
Speaker 3: to do both, but also be conscious of the fact
Speaker 3: that I don't also want to box other Black women
Speaker 3: in a specific group, even though they might just belong
Speaker 3: to everybody's just trying to fight not to belong in
Speaker 3: some sort of stereotype and some sort of trauma and
Speaker 3: et cetera. This is what I always find. So I
Speaker 3: do both things. So I try my best to find
Speaker 3: black women who I can ask questions too and find
Speaker 3: out how they feel and if they feel that they're
Speaker 3: treated in any kind of way in the societies. And
Speaker 3: sometimes you find people will tell you yes, I am
Speaker 3: treated differently, and then sometimes you think people say no,
Speaker 3: I'm treated completely the same. So it all depends on
Speaker 3: how far that person is in understanding the trauma that
Speaker 3: they went through, that they're going through, how far they
Speaker 3: want to accept it. It's so layered that conversation for
Speaker 3: black women, it's not just a simple question for them.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's because sometimes even if you think you're finding
Speaker 3: familiarity in talking about it, you say, like, oh, so,
Speaker 3: how is it dating as a black woman here. I
Speaker 3: want to understand some people can be very defensive, like
Speaker 3: it's fine and I don't even think about it, no difference,
Speaker 3: and don't you know like almost like don't put me
Speaker 3: in the group of like your trauma or the trauma
Speaker 3: that everybody else is going through or that stress. Right,
Speaker 3: And then you'll find some that are maybe okay with
Speaker 3: it and working with it and that's how and they
Speaker 3: process it out loud and they'll tell you how it is.
Speaker 3: So I would say there is a difference one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: They can't not be a difference, right either you're boxed
Speaker 3: into your stereotype as a black woman, and there's a
Speaker 3: difference between black African women and Black American woman. Stand
Speaker 3: it British, Yeah, Black British is like a completely and
Speaker 3: even within African women, it's like a spectrum, right, it's
Speaker 3: like difference, But I feel like there's a difference. So
Speaker 3: if you're African American, even if you're just a black woman,
Speaker 3: you're boxed in. Sometimes if you're in the dask War,
Speaker 3: in this box of African American women that you should
Speaker 3: speak sort of like in their own venecular and you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: what are you doing like you're gonna be dramatic, like
Speaker 3: you're going to be the person who's in the center
Speaker 3: of everything and the men expecting you to shake your booty.
Speaker 3: You're going to be so good at it, you know,
Speaker 3: things like that, and that you're going to be just
Speaker 3: the one to help them, you're going to be so strong,
Speaker 3: or you're boxed into the negative stereotype. You're not attractive enough,
Speaker 3: you're too dark, especially if you're in Asia, you're just
Speaker 3: too dark, You're just not good looking enough, You're or
Speaker 3: you're even in India the lower caste as well. Oh,
Speaker 3: I think there's definitely a difference of that, but I
Speaker 3: try my best to not to not try to focus
Speaker 3: on that when I talk to the black women because
Speaker 3: I know that they don't want that as well. They
Speaker 3: try to run away from it.
Speaker 2: But it's a reality. And I think what's interesting is
Speaker 2: you talk about when people see I've had it here
Speaker 2: where people when they hear me speak, they assume that
Speaker 2: I'm from America or the UK or something like that.
Speaker 2: People struggle to conceive in their mind that I can
Speaker 2: hold a conversation and not be from those western parts
Speaker 2: of the world. So there's also that, and then if
Speaker 2: you're African, it's like there's a whole perception of that
Speaker 2: and you should be so grateful. Oh, you must be
Speaker 2: so grateful to be here, or and you spoke a
Speaker 2: little bit about your own experience when dating, like with
Speaker 2: your husband, it's like people's perceptions of you being an
Speaker 2: African woman with a non African man, and it's so layered.
Speaker 2: As you've said, there's so many different levels to it.
Speaker 2: And I can completely personally because I live in a
Speaker 2: predominantly white country and environment. So I have a question
Speaker 2: for you because it would be remiss for us to
Speaker 2: have you on here and not kind of delve into
Speaker 2: you know, where you think or what you've seen as
Speaker 2: being a country that you feel our black sisters, And
Speaker 2: I know we keep hopping on about our black sisters,
Speaker 2: but I feel like if you look at the pyramid
Speaker 2: of dating, black women are typically at the bottom, and
Speaker 2: you know, so we got to look out for each other.
Speaker 2: So ladies, I'm looking out for you. Where do you
Speaker 2: think they would feel most appreciated and scene without the fetishes,
Speaker 2: no fetishes fetishes aside with yeah, without the fetish, or
Speaker 2: maybe they can wade through the fetishes.
Speaker 3: And like like both.
Speaker 2: With that with whichever, like where should where should sisters
Speaker 2: be going?
Speaker 3: Because we all are looking for love? Do you want
Speaker 3: to be loved?
Speaker 2: Do you want to be loved? Well?
Speaker 3: I think definitely without fetishes. Then you're just you know Africa, right,
Speaker 3: any I think African countries you're gonna be appreciated there.
Speaker 3: No one's going to fetishize you. It was going to
Speaker 3: be like because Barbims I knew it. No, I mean maybe,
Speaker 3: but I feel like you're gonna in a general there
Speaker 3: anyway you know, you're gonna you're gonna feel like someone
Speaker 3: is maybe you're talking maybe on a specific level with somebody, right,
Speaker 3: and you don't have to completely try to break it
Speaker 3: down for them that you're a person, you have these
Speaker 3: different layers, and you don't have to remove all the
Speaker 3: stereotypes from their eyes, you know. So I think it'd
Speaker 3: be something easy. It could be easier, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then I think in Europe, I would like to
Speaker 3: say Sweden. The reason I'd like to say Sweden because
Speaker 3: I get the feeling that in Sweden they have their
Speaker 3: own way of thinking, the sense that they think that
Speaker 3: they are above are the general things happening around the world.
Speaker 3: They think they are above this, theods happening. They think
Speaker 3: they are above racism, and they think they are above
Speaker 3: key do they think what they think exactly? What they
Speaker 3: think that they to Sweden good looking. Those guys are
Speaker 3: good looking.
Speaker 2: People.
Speaker 3: Some vikings they're good looking and uh and they just
Speaker 3: like and it's like shocking, It's actually very shocking how
Speaker 3: many good looking people in Sweden. I was like, what
Speaker 3: is this water? I need this?
Speaker 1: So you you you your perception is like the they
Speaker 1: quite to use this word woke. So because of that,
Speaker 1: they like really try to like not be the person
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly themselves is looking out for you exactly. And
Speaker 3: also maybe I would also go for like a country
Speaker 3: like probably Germany, even though people are like Germany, why
Speaker 3: would you say that, oh my god, you know, post
Speaker 3: Nazi country, which is true, it's all true.
Speaker 1: But the pain.
Speaker 3: For the rest of their lives exactly. And Germany is
Speaker 3: literally right now being the only country that I think
Speaker 3: has actually kind of said, oh sorry for the hero massacres.
Speaker 3: This is and most duringeople that I've met personally are
Speaker 3: willing to sort of educate themselves already educated about what's
Speaker 3: going on. So I think you could have a conversation,
Speaker 3: you could be on a you could be on a level,
Speaker 3: but fetishi is to some extent. Yeah, you're like.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah the time, remember the first thing my husband said,
Speaker 1: because you know when you go out to thinking, okay, whatever,
Speaker 1: we've done this, like I'm just going to go for
Speaker 1: a few drinks, and then he's like, no, I literally
Speaker 1: saw you across the room and you're the most beautiful
Speaker 1: girl there, so I thought, let me try and ask
Speaker 1: you for a drink, but thinking at the time, you've
Speaker 1: got lyrics. But I think it's also because as black women,
Speaker 1: there's a totem pole and I just thought there were
Speaker 1: other white women there there, why would you like it
Speaker 1: was so far removed from my mind for him to
Speaker 1: think he looks around and he still thought a black
Speaker 1: girl was that. So it shows me that he just
Speaker 1: looks at people, doesn't look at like whereas you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes maybe you are the prettiest black girl there, but
Speaker 1: then the black are too hard or too you know,
Speaker 1: they won't go there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Germans, Wow.
Speaker 3: Africa, Germany.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know why I'm asking, I think because well,
Speaker 2: I'm finding through conversation with other black women. I think
Speaker 2: there's also a layer of exhaustion sometimes with how we
Speaker 2: are perceived, even within our environments. Because as much as
Speaker 2: you will be accepted because you don't have to have
Speaker 2: a conversation about what's aurora or you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: but there's another layer which you spoke about, which is
Speaker 2: you're wanting to live out your feminist desires or living
Speaker 2: in your true feminine energy or being accepted. Do you understand,
Speaker 2: So there's that other dynamic that isn't always accepted when
Speaker 2: you are back home, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: it's like this weird dance you're doing. You want to
Speaker 2: just be seen as you, but you also want to
Speaker 2: be able. It's very complex.
Speaker 1: You're not able to live?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, It's extremely complex. And I would like to
Speaker 3: also challenge this, this hierarchy or this total pole. We're
Speaker 3: black women at the bottom, you know, because I genuinely
Speaker 3: feel that a lot of the statistics that are done
Speaker 3: are done predominantly. Also sometimes looking at the African American
Speaker 3: situation and in America, as a black woman, you are
Speaker 3: probably at the bottom because there's this historical thing that's
Speaker 3: going on. But I think and maybe perhaps it's a
Speaker 3: colonial thing, who knows, But I really one hundred percent
Speaker 3: think that we are far from the bottom.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what the bottom well, so I
Speaker 1: mean we're not We're not.
Speaker 3: And so if you like when you know, when your
Speaker 3: husband saw you and you was like I saw you,
Speaker 3: I was like, you're so gorgeous, of course, what I
Speaker 3: mean you you have beautiful skin, You're glowing, and it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, if people have their own perceived things based
Speaker 3: so I think as we have to separate that sometimes.
Speaker 3: And I think not separating the African diaspora not to
Speaker 3: do that, but I think different African diasporas have got
Speaker 3: different stories that pertain to racism, and it's benefits to
Speaker 3: sulf differently everywhere that we are, if you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. And but I think, of course in the
Speaker 3: African American whatever experience perspective, it's definitely like black women
Speaker 3: are at the bottom of the barrel. But I think
Speaker 3: if you were to maybe look yai yaib it's international
Speaker 3: tool like you could be because of Indian.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I know a lot of I do
Speaker 4: know a lot of African American women love going to
Speaker 4: uh like Ghana now at the moment, and because they
Speaker 4: do feel seen and are preciated, so it's not Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think sometimes as black people, our story is told
Speaker 4: through an African American lens because again, as Roomby said earlier,
Speaker 4: you know, there's certain countries America does control a lot
Speaker 4: of the media.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to black people, even we hear
Speaker 1: a lot of the African American experience, like we all
Speaker 1: love hip hop, right because it's like, oh yeah, it's like, no,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't. Maybe I like my local music. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with my soungura. I don't need hip hop. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's like people just think, oh, because you're black,
Speaker 1: you like Tupac, you know. So it's just one of
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 3: It's true.
Speaker 2: And I just asked, sorry, Iman, I mentioned Ghana, what
Speaker 2: is that like in Ghana? Because I know a lot
Speaker 2: of women be like and men be hat as a
Speaker 2: mother and like this I saw in the in your
Speaker 2: in your episode.
Speaker 3: The I'm just saying, fine, they are so freaking fine.
Speaker 3: That is true. And I feel like people from Ghana
Speaker 3: in general, like especially with the men, I feel like
Speaker 3: there's like a there's like a confidence, but it's not
Speaker 3: like a like a huge, like exuberated confidence that should
Speaker 3: get probably from like a Nigerian man per se. It's
Speaker 3: sort of like a toned down confidence that is there,
Speaker 3: and I think that's very attractive for all the quiet
Speaker 3: the quiet confidence. Yeah, so I feel like Ghana is amazing.
Speaker 3: And also Ghana had like some sort of like a
Speaker 3: matriarchal society, at least in other tribes. So I think
Speaker 3: that was very fascinating to tap into. And so how
Speaker 3: they look at women in some parts of ghan is
Speaker 3: completely different. And I think that's always the narrative you get.
Speaker 3: You always get, oh, you know, you always still have
Speaker 3: the feeling that feminism started in Europe, that feminism is
Speaker 3: somehow a byproduct of European development and industrialization and you know,
Speaker 3: you know, fighting for human rights and et cetera. And
Speaker 3: it's actually been in Africa and African society is for
Speaker 3: so long. Actually we got it ages ago, and I
Speaker 3: think it's very nice to show that. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 3: was very passive. It was great. I loved it as.
Speaker 1: The beginning to wind down for episode. How do you
Speaker 1: feel the feedback has been from the viewers of your series?
Speaker 3: So, I think it's the thing like when I said, like,
Speaker 3: when you're telling this like an African story, sometimes people
Speaker 3: feel really seen by that. So I think from the Africans,
Speaker 3: the feedback has always been like, oh, thank you for
Speaker 3: actually like during an episode about my country in a
Speaker 3: different way, because you can see that there are people
Speaker 3: living here, right, People are living there in that country.
Speaker 3: Not everybody is on the streets starving, people are having
Speaker 3: a life, people are doing their thing, They're going around
Speaker 3: about their life. So I think that there's a genuine
Speaker 3: appreciation for just showing like the normalcy of it all
Speaker 3: and how fascinating it is. So I think that's been positive.
Speaker 3: From the European side, it's also been I felt like
Speaker 3: in the beginning it was like I almost got the feeling.
Speaker 3: It was like, okay, you're telling the story. Troe for Sweden,
Speaker 3: the swediship are just generally nice, friendly, like okay, great,
Speaker 3: you're telling it. And then there's also sometimes if you're
Speaker 3: telling a story like Portugal, where you're showing like the
Speaker 3: tougher side of Portugal and then you're an African person
Speaker 3: telling the story, it's almost sometimes how dare you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: You you you to tell you so. But in general
Speaker 3: I've also gotten like thousands of messages asking me how
Speaker 3: I can help someone meet someone, which is just like, Okay,
Speaker 3: that's interesting.
Speaker 1: So a match maker, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: My question then, is any dating advice you can give
Speaker 2: that you've gone it from the series that you can
Speaker 2: share with our listeners, like what what would you what
Speaker 2: would you share.
Speaker 1: To those the thousand d ms?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, those thous thousands, they are well. Generally, I'll
Speaker 3: say generally in the context of dating around the world
Speaker 3: and the at different cultures, I would say that there
Speaker 3: are lots of positive and negative things about one's culture
Speaker 3: when it comes to dating. Even when I look at
Speaker 3: the Shana culture and sometimes I look at Lomola, when
Speaker 3: I look at what's going on in Japan with their
Speaker 3: issues or I look at it. I just think it's
Speaker 3: important to criticize, of course your dating culture, but I
Speaker 3: think it's also so important to also appreciate it as well.
Speaker 3: So this is sometimes like the adviself get because people
Speaker 3: always I get the feeling whenever I'm talking to different people,
Speaker 3: even if it's Japan, and you know, in Japan they
Speaker 3: don't say I love you to each other, you know,
Speaker 3: they just it's an odd thing to say that, and
Speaker 3: they feel that it's something that should be stopped because
Speaker 3: in the Western culture they say I love you a lot,
Speaker 3: and so it must mean something, whereas the acts of service,
Speaker 3: acts of showing love are more important. So I think
Speaker 3: it's okay that the Japanese are like that. It's okay
Speaker 3: that that is who they are, because they still show
Speaker 3: they love in different ways. So I would just like
Speaker 3: to say people can should be okay with their cultures
Speaker 3: as well. They can try to evolve them, and they
Speaker 3: should evolve. But it's okay to appreciate your culture, keep it.
Speaker 3: You don't have to westernize it more or et cetera.
Speaker 3: And as an individual, especially coming from the from being
Speaker 3: just a woman, I would say it's important for you
Speaker 3: to date in a way that is representative of your personality,
Speaker 3: a way that suits you. So you find some people
Speaker 3: okay with being like like, I'm going to be with
Speaker 3: one person and I'm going to see how this relationship goes,
Speaker 3: and let's see what happens, and then after two years
Speaker 3: things don't work, that move on to the next one.
Speaker 3: I was never really like that kind of person, maybe
Speaker 3: because my mother was always like, don't put all your
Speaker 3: eggs in one basket until the basket until you should
Speaker 3: this basket is okay, and you're okay, and you better
Speaker 3: be checking out the other freaking eggs and so. But
Speaker 3: then I also thought that she knew me as well,
Speaker 3: so she knew my personality as was then I I
Speaker 3: felt like I needed to see what was out there.
Speaker 3: I needed to compare because for me, that's the only
Speaker 3: way I could then choose and say this is what
Speaker 3: I want. So I think straight true to yourself when
Speaker 3: your date, you know what I mean, And.
Speaker 2: That's really great to hear, because I don't think we're
Speaker 2: ever told that way. Like if I think of the
Speaker 2: dating advice I received, it was it's just like one person,
Speaker 2: like you know what I mean, Like it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: anything when you just you're just getting to know people.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't say I'm gonna have one friend
Speaker 2: and we're going to do things all together. Like you
Speaker 2: meet different people and then you see, Okay, who can
Speaker 2: be the best friend, who can be the home you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, Yeah, it's okay, you're just
Speaker 2: getting to know someone. It's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And women should definitely, I think one hundred
Speaker 3: and ten percent approach men because you can imagine if
Speaker 3: you only have three men or four men approaching and
Speaker 3: you're like, ah, I don't even know who I really want,
Speaker 3: and then you choose the monkst the ones you don't
Speaker 3: even really want because they're the ones who came to you.
Speaker 3: You're limiting yourself, you know. So I feel like if
Speaker 3: you like someone and you think this person could be
Speaker 3: for me, I feel like you should one hundred and
Speaker 3: ten percent do it. So I think women should approach
Speaker 3: men should take more initiative to do it, and men
Speaker 3: when they approach, especially I mean European and are fine
Speaker 3: with it. I think they like it, but afink like
Speaker 3: a bit forward. This one forward exactly, it's forward, but
Speaker 3: I think they should embrace it. So yeah, thank you,
Speaker 3: Yeah why not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, any episodes or future projects we should look out for.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely going to go to Greenland. Oh and maybe
Speaker 3: Greenland is. I think like there are like fifty thousand
Speaker 3: people in Greenland even less, and it's a very interesting
Speaker 3: dating scenario going on in Greenland. People you can imagine
Speaker 3: or someone.
Speaker 1: Something instuous, recycle every day, everybody.
Speaker 3: Everybody dating, everybody, even in. I think they're nice on everybody.
Speaker 3: They even had something right to try to take. Okay, am,
Speaker 3: I relates to you though, you can double check that.
Speaker 3: So I think it's interesting to check that out. And
Speaker 3: I think I want to focus a lot on African countries.
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to dig deep and just dive
Speaker 3: into it because I think it's necessary to do that.
Speaker 3: I think it's necessary to find out what's going on,
Speaker 3: you know, what's going on with you know, odd, what's
Speaker 3: going on in odd like nobody even knows, you know.
Speaker 2: So for sure forward to if you ever do Zimbabwe,
Speaker 2: because maybe some of us have, you know.
Speaker 3: I did Zimbabwe? You did?
Speaker 1: I did? I?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, I did just like a part
Speaker 3: of Zimbabwe. And then I'm like, oh no, I need
Speaker 3: to wait until things stableize to reach this.
Speaker 2: The full money because I'm like, yo, yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 2: I'd be hearing stories.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. But the pandemic, yeah, there's some Jolo pandemic.
Speaker 3: The economy pandemic is basically people are just sleeping with
Speaker 3: everybody because people just don't want to commit.
Speaker 1: You know, comm commitment requires finances, so exactly don't have finances,
Speaker 1: then you can't commit, like how do you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the blessers.
Speaker 3: The blessers are just insane, and I think going back
Speaker 3: to them, maybe it would be nice to to really
Speaker 3: dig deep and look at because I found it very
Speaker 3: fascinating when I had to explain it to somebody else,
Speaker 3: the cultures and Baku and am Guru and Natano, all
Speaker 3: these different things, and I feel like even though people
Speaker 3: like to simplify African culture, I realized, like we're actually
Speaker 3: really complicated.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's not simple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so layered. And it was such a system.
Speaker 3: It was such a sting that kept people together, kept
Speaker 3: people kind of like in check. And I think it's
Speaker 3: fascinating to break that down as well. So that's the project.
Speaker 3: Let's see how that goes. Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: This is so good and like it's so great to
Speaker 2: see you kind of living out, you know, marrying two
Speaker 2: of your passions together and like educating us as we go,
Speaker 2: which is just wonderful. Before you we go, could you
Speaker 2: share your socials about dating around the world and where
Speaker 2: everyone can see it please let us know.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Well you can find me on Dating
Speaker 3: around the World WIM on Instagram Dating around the World WM,
Speaker 3: and you can also go on my YouTube channel, Dating
Speaker 3: around the World. You can find me there and yeah,
Speaker 3: and I'll be putting up a website soon and hopefully
Speaker 3: helping people meet each other somehow.
Speaker 2: To be a match, make a match maker, make me
Speaker 2: a match.
Speaker 3: Sail around the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, exactly. Thank you so much for being a
Speaker 2: part of this, and to our you as always, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for listening. Thank you so much, and
Speaker 2: we'll see you on our very next episode.
Speaker 3: Bye bye, guys.
Speaker 2: Bye oh no no
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,