WEBVTT - What's going wrong with the NDIS?

0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.040
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.319
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.640
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday,

0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.280
<v Speaker 2>the eighth of December. I'm Sam, I'm Billy. Yesterday, an

0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:39.200
<v Speaker 2>independent review about Australia's National Disability Insurance scheme made twenty

0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:44.000
<v Speaker 2>six recommendations for Australia's governments to better support Australians living

0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.479
<v Speaker 2>with a disability. We're going to explain exactly what you

0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.599
<v Speaker 2>need to know about these recommendations. But first, Billy, there

0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:52.839
<v Speaker 2>was some big news from Australia's media yesterday.

0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes Australian broadcaster Alan Jones has been accused of inappropriate

0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.800
<v Speaker 3>behavior with several young men in an instigation by The

0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.119
<v Speaker 3>Sydney Morning Herald. In her report, journalist Kate McClymont alleged

0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.880
<v Speaker 3>Jones used his position of power to prey on a

0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.200
<v Speaker 3>number of young men. Jones denies the allegations and his

0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.039
<v Speaker 3>legal team has confirmed they have taken the first step

0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.320
<v Speaker 3>in commencing defamation proceedings against The Sydney Morning Herald.

0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Fiji's Deputy Prime Minister Biman Prosad has called for a

0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.319
<v Speaker 2>no visa requirement to travel between Australia and the Pacific Islands.

0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.240
<v Speaker 2>In an address in Australia, Prasad said Australians and Pacific

0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Islanders should be able to freely move and work across

0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.520
<v Speaker 2>the vast blue Pacific. He suggested a visa free Pacific

0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.319
<v Speaker 2>as the next step, highlighting the benefits of economic integration

0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:43.400
<v Speaker 2>between the countries.

0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:49.200
<v Speaker 3>The International Air Transport Association has announced expected net profits

0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.240
<v Speaker 3>of twenty three point three billion US dollars for the

0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.840
<v Speaker 3>global airline industry this year. The association includes Australian airlines

0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.960
<v Speaker 3>like Quantus and Virgin The Director General of the Association

0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.520
<v Speaker 3>said that on average, airlines make eight dollars for each

0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:04.240
<v Speaker 3>customer that.

0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Travels and today's good news I like this one. Viewers

0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.760
<v Speaker 2>of Deal or No Deal in the UK have helped

0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.280
<v Speaker 2>raise thousands for a contestant who has mode A neuron disease.

0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Brad Whale went on the show to win enough money

0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.280
<v Speaker 2>to fulfill his bucket list, but he only walked away

0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.280
<v Speaker 2>with five pounds that's about ten Australian dollars. A fellow

0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.320
<v Speaker 2>contestant on the show set up a GoFundMe page, which

0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.680
<v Speaker 2>has now raised more than one hundred thousand pounds to

0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:36.600
<v Speaker 2>help Whale complete his bucket list. Okay, so Billy. Yesterday,

0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.680
<v Speaker 2>an independent review of the National Disability Insurance Scheme and

0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.000
<v Speaker 2>we more commonly know it as the NDIS made twenty

0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.240
<v Speaker 2>six recommendations to create what it said would be a

0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.960
<v Speaker 2>more sustainable, functional and equitable support system for Australians with

0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:56.120
<v Speaker 2>a disability. The authors of the review said their recommendations

0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.440
<v Speaker 2>would renew the promise of the NDIS two people with disabilities.

0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:05.120
<v Speaker 2>Before we go to those twenty six recommendations, why don't

0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.359
<v Speaker 2>we go back a few steps and talk through what

0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.800
<v Speaker 2>exactly the NDIS actually is.

0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it seems like a really logical place to start,

0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.359
<v Speaker 3>So for those who don't know, the NDIS provides necessary

0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.960
<v Speaker 3>support and services for Australians who have a permanent and

0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:24.519
<v Speaker 3>significant disability. So it offers access to community service which

0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.840
<v Speaker 3>can be things like just going to the doctors, for example,

0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.160
<v Speaker 3>and it also provides assistance for necessary support such as

0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, if you need a car to be modified,

0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.480
<v Speaker 3>it can provide the financial assistance to do things such

0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.920
<v Speaker 3>as that. Now, it was launched in two thy and thirteen,

0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.400
<v Speaker 3>so it's about ten years old, but it was rolled

0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.040
<v Speaker 3>out incrementally and it was ultimately completed in twenty twenty.

0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.720
<v Speaker 3>Today there are now over six hundred and ten thousand

0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Australians who receive support from the NDIS. But for reference,

0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.880
<v Speaker 3>there are two point five million Australians with a disability

0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.440
<v Speaker 3>under the age of sixty five, and sixty five is

0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.880
<v Speaker 3>the cutoff age for NDIS support.

0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and so ten years into the program there's been

0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.400
<v Speaker 2>this big review. But before we go into what the

0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.160
<v Speaker 2>review found, was there anything that kind of triggered the

0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.280
<v Speaker 2>commissioning of the review in the first place.

0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely. So in order for a review to be commissioned,

0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.760
<v Speaker 3>there needs to be a reason for that, and so

0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.839
<v Speaker 3>the government launched the review in twenty twenty two, and

0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.800
<v Speaker 3>that was because of widespread concerns about deteriorating support for

0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.960
<v Speaker 3>NDIS recipients. You work in the media, I'm sure, you've

0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.360
<v Speaker 3>heard a lot of complaints over the years. I feel

0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.920
<v Speaker 3>like I've been hearing about them for years now. One

0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.000
<v Speaker 3>of the key concerns was the ndis's functionality, So there

0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.840
<v Speaker 3>were a lot of allegations about the presence of unethical

0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:46.400
<v Speaker 3>providers who are allegedly overcharging recipients for ineffective or even

0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:51.080
<v Speaker 3>just unnecessary supports. And another big concern was just how

0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.200
<v Speaker 3>expensive the NDIS was becoming, and that was attributed to

0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.560
<v Speaker 3>a number of reasons, but one was the number of

0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:02.080
<v Speaker 3>participants needing the NDIS and that growing much faster than

0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.440
<v Speaker 3>was initially expected ten years ago.

0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.640
<v Speaker 2>So basically, if I was to kind of generally bundle

0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.320
<v Speaker 2>those two issues, it's wastage and its programs not being efficient,

0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's because of some bad actors, but also some

0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.760
<v Speaker 2>problems with the way that grants are given out, but

0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.480
<v Speaker 2>also then the rising costs of the program. And we

0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.640
<v Speaker 2>covered earlier this year the number of people with ADHD

0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.520
<v Speaker 2>on the NDIS, and I think that kind of story

0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.640
<v Speaker 2>symbolized to politicians the different ways in which the NDIS

0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.640
<v Speaker 2>is being used in twenty twenty three.

0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.640
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, And before you go on, I do just want

0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.239
<v Speaker 3>to point out Obviously we're focusing on the bad stuff.

0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.600
<v Speaker 3>There is obviously a lot of good that the NDIS.

0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Had done, really and that is the message that comes

0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.159
<v Speaker 2>from the government whenever those bad stories come out, is

0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.400
<v Speaker 2>that we're focusing on the bad actors. But there's people

0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.400
<v Speaker 2>who are using the NDIS funds.

0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.000
<v Speaker 3>For good totally, and they want to focus on the

0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.960
<v Speaker 3>bad because they want to fix it exactly.

0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.320
<v Speaker 2>So they did focus on the bad and they did

0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.240
<v Speaker 2>this review. What did the review find?

0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.760
<v Speaker 3>So overall, just as a general sentiment, the report found

0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.400
<v Speaker 3>that the current system was difficult to navigate and that

0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.320
<v Speaker 3>it didn't really encourage high quality services for people with disabilities.

0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.360
<v Speaker 3>So to solve this, it made twenty six recommendations overall,

0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.160
<v Speaker 3>and that came with one hundred and thirty eight supporting actions,

0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:21.160
<v Speaker 3>so ways that the government can action those recommendations, and

0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:22.920
<v Speaker 3>those are to be implemented over a.

0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Five year period.

0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:26.159
<v Speaker 3>So I'll put a link to the report in the

0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.160
<v Speaker 3>show notes if you do want to have a closer look.

0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.520
<v Speaker 3>But just as a top line overview of what it recommended,

0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.200
<v Speaker 3>the first recommendation was that the NDIS should not be

0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.320
<v Speaker 3>the sole source of disability support in Australia and should

0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.440
<v Speaker 3>more be part of a bigger system of connected disability services.

0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Do they offer like an idea of how that could

0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:47.040
<v Speaker 2>actually operate.

0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.960
<v Speaker 3>So it recommended investing in something it called foundational supports

0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.479
<v Speaker 3>and those would be available to all people with a

0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:59.919
<v Speaker 3>disability and it would exist outside of the ndis's individualized budgets.

0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.800
<v Speaker 3>So at the moment, the way the NDIS works is

0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.440
<v Speaker 3>that if you're a person with a disability, you can

0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.880
<v Speaker 3>go to the NDIS and ask for specific personal support.

0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.360
<v Speaker 3>But what this review recommended was that there should be

0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:18.480
<v Speaker 3>something overall outside of individualized support that all people across

0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.800
<v Speaker 3>Australia with a disability can access. Does that make sense?

0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so like blanket mainstream services exactly.

0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.480
<v Speaker 3>That everyone can access. And so it said that by

0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.600
<v Speaker 3>setting up these kind of foundational supports, the government can

0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.640
<v Speaker 3>reduce the inequity, which was a word that kept coming

0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.960
<v Speaker 3>up between people in the NDIS and those who are

0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.120
<v Speaker 3>not in the NDIS.

0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.640
<v Speaker 2>So basically the report recommended that the NDIS not be

0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.320
<v Speaker 2>this sole source of disability support in Australia, but be

0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.960
<v Speaker 2>part of like a broader network of disability support systems

0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:51.320
<v Speaker 2>that everyone can access.

0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly spot on.

0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so what else did the report find?

0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.360
<v Speaker 3>Another recommendation was around how people who are on the

0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.840
<v Speaker 3>NDIS have their budgets managed. So just quickly, for people

0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:07.280
<v Speaker 3>on the NDIS, the government doesn't provide support payments directly,

0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.240
<v Speaker 3>so you don't just get a lump sum put into

0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.800
<v Speaker 3>your bank account. Instead of that, participants get a budget

0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.800
<v Speaker 3>which they can use to purchase support from registered providers. Now,

0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.480
<v Speaker 3>the NDAs hasn't suggested changing that basic structure, but it

0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.720
<v Speaker 3>has said that there needs to be a greater flexibility

0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.400
<v Speaker 3>in how participants of the NDIS can spend their budget

0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.680
<v Speaker 3>with minimal exceptions, and it also said that the government

0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.439
<v Speaker 3>should adopt a quote trust based approach to overseeing how

0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:35.400
<v Speaker 3>budgets are spent.

0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.720
<v Speaker 2>So we've pretty much talked about ways that people inside

0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.280
<v Speaker 2>the NDIS can have the program modified to make it

0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.840
<v Speaker 2>more effective. Did the report recommend anything for those who

0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.960
<v Speaker 2>wish to apply to the NDIS.

0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, this was another key recommendation, so it addressed how

0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.400
<v Speaker 3>people apply to access the NDAs and it said that

0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:59.040
<v Speaker 3>in this application process, the NDIS should prioritize those with

0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:04.200
<v Speaker 3>quote significant functional impairment and need over a medical diagnosis

0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.199
<v Speaker 3>which you might be asking why. So it said at

0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.320
<v Speaker 3>the moment, many participants are gaining automatic access to the

0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.720
<v Speaker 3>NDIS because they have a medical diagnosis, which has led

0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.000
<v Speaker 3>to a focus on the need of having a medical

0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:23.120
<v Speaker 3>diagnosis rather than the actual function and disability related support needs.

0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:23.800
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting.

0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it said that this has led to inequity. Again,

0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.320
<v Speaker 3>like I said, that's a word that just kept coming

0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.760
<v Speaker 3>up in this report, and it said it created this

0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.480
<v Speaker 3>inequity because it favored only those with means to obtain

0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.199
<v Speaker 3>a diagnosis.

0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Right, so basically favoring people who had access to doctors

0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>and assessments that could get them the paperwork that they

0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:43.559
<v Speaker 2>need to access the program.

0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:44.400
<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly.

0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.040
<v Speaker 2>How has the government come out yesterday to respond to

0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:47.520
<v Speaker 2>all of this?

0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.760
<v Speaker 3>So, like we said, the report only came out yesterday,

0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.400
<v Speaker 3>and my understanding is that the government didn't have the

0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.080
<v Speaker 3>report before it was released to the public, so they

0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.480
<v Speaker 3>haven't detailed yet whether or not they will accept each

0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.960
<v Speaker 3>recommend or not. But Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi has said

0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.800
<v Speaker 3>that a full government response will be released next year,

0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.040
<v Speaker 3>which will follow further consultation with the disability community over

0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.839
<v Speaker 3>the coming months. In how the government should respond to this,

0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.560
<v Speaker 3>but in terms of initial comments about it, NDIS Minister

0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.000
<v Speaker 3>Bill Shorten said, quote this is a significant moment in

0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.439
<v Speaker 3>Australian history, particularly for people with disability and their families

0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.960
<v Speaker 3>and the disability sector. Our nation will reap the rewards

0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.960
<v Speaker 3>of the review's work. But he also added it is

0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.640
<v Speaker 3>important that Australians understand changes are not going to happen overnight.

0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard anything from the opposition.

0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so we have a statement from the Shadow Minister

0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.320
<v Speaker 3>for NDIS, Michael Suka, and he said quote Unsurprisingly, the

0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.439
<v Speaker 3>independent review has left many questions unanswered and stones unturned.

0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.400
<v Speaker 3>The Government will now have to outline which changes they

0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.640
<v Speaker 3>support and how they plan to transform these recommendations into

0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.679
<v Speaker 3>tangible action. He also said, it seems clear that the

0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.840
<v Speaker 3>government will seek to deny access to the NDIS for

0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.480
<v Speaker 3>children with autism and developmental delay.

0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And we know that the NDAs is this joint program

0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 2>between the Commonwealth and the States and territories. And on

0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Wednesday at the National Cabinet meeting and the National Cabinet

0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.360
<v Speaker 2>is that meeting between the Prime Minister and the leaders

0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.320
<v Speaker 2>of the States and Territories, they all agreed to work

0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.360
<v Speaker 2>together on new laws to improve the NDAs, so I

0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.240
<v Speaker 2>think we will see some of these recommendations play out

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.280
<v Speaker 2>in the structure of those new laws, and hopefully see

0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.640
<v Speaker 2>some changes to the programs where those inequities have been identified.

0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.079
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back in New Years on Monday morning. It's

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:39.520
<v Speaker 2>going to be hot for a lot of the country

0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.560
<v Speaker 2>this weekend, so please look after yourself, drink a lot

0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.360
<v Speaker 2>of water, and share this podcast with a friend for

0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.040
<v Speaker 2>a bit of weekend listening. Until then, at a wonderful weekend,