1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Dahlias. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It is Tuesday, the eighteenth of June. 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: I'm billy, I'm Sam. 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: New research has found that labia surgery has become one 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: of the fastest growing cosmetic procedures amongst young people in 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: Australia and worldwide. That's according to a new report by 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: Women's Health Victoria, which also found that nearly a quarter 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: of Australian women aged eighteen to twenty four feel anxious 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: or ashamed about their LaBier and this is all largely 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: due to an unrealistic expectation that is informed by porn 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: and social media. It's an important topic and one that 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: we often don't talk about. So what is behind this 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: rise in labia surgery and why is it more common 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: in younger generations. We explore this in today's Deep Dive. 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: But first, Sam, what is making headlines today? 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: The Federal Court has recognized the Kabi Kabi people's native 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: title in the Sunshine Coast. This determination recognizes their rights 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: to over three hundred and sixty five thousand hectares of land. 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: This native title ruling isn't exclusive and that means it 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: will coexist with other land users' rights. Kabi Kabi traditional 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: owner Michael Douglas said the determination is empowering and that 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: he is quote looking forward to passing on what this 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: means with all of the Kabi Kabi people. 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: Chinese Premier Li Jang and Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi have 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: signed several agreements in Cambery yesterday, including a renewed trade 27 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 2: deal and frameworks on climate change and education. Albanesi said 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: these agreements reflect a deliberate approach to our relationship with China. 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: Premier Lee's visit was also marked by both pro Tibet 30 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: protesters and pro China supporters who gathered along the road 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: on the way to Parliament House. 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: Australians are more comfortable with sport news being produced by 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: AI than political news. That's according to a survey of 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: two thousand Australians by the News and Media Research Center. 35 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: A quarter of those surveyed rely on social media as 36 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: their main source of news, and that's particularly prevalent amongst 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: young people. The center survey also found an increase in 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: the number of Australians experiencing news fatigue following major world events. 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three. 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: And today's good news, Melissa Wu will become the first 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: Australian diver to compete at five Olympics. The thirty two 42 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: year old from New South Wales has made the team 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: for this year's Paris Games, one of nine divers set 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: to represent the country in July and August. Wu made 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: her Olympic debut age sixteen at the Beijing Olympics, where 46 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: she won silver alongside Briany Cole in the ten meter 47 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: synchronized dive. And if you want more sport news from 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: the jally Os, we have a dedicated newsletter to just that. 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: We will put a link to. 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: The not written by Ai No. 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: We will put a link to that in the show notes. 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so, Billy, you interviewed Kate Johnston Atata, who is 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: the manager for Policy, Health Promotion and Advocacy at Women's 54 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: Health Victoria. She commissions this new report. Give me some 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: background on what we're about to talk about. 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a new report that came out yesterday. 57 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: It triggered a lot of conversation in the office because 58 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: it was all about a growing perception of embarrassment and 59 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: anxiousness when it comes to a woman's laber and how 60 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: this is resulting in more people undergoing cosmetic procedures on 61 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: their laber. And what was interesting is just how prevalent 62 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: this is in young women, particularly compared to older generations, 63 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: which Kate Johnston Ada speaks about in today's interview. One 64 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: thing to mention just before you start listening is that 65 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: we talk about the LaBier Library, and that is a 66 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: gallery of non sexualized images of laber that aims to 67 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: promote diversity and challenge these unrealistic beauty standards, which is 68 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: just one of the ways that they are trying to 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: solve this huge issue around really negative perceptions about what 70 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: is normal when it comes to a woman's LaBier. So 71 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: here is that interview. Kate Johnson Ata adda, thank you 72 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: so much for joining the Daily Ours this morning. 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 74 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: I want to start the conversation by if you can 75 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: just explain what actually is the LaBier and how does 76 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: it differ from the vulver and also the clip. 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 3: So this is a really important and very common question. 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 3: Often we use the word vagina, but actually what we 79 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 3: mean is the vulver, and the volver is made up 80 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: of multiple different parts and the LaBier are basically the 81 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 3: folds of skin that sits on either side of the 82 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 3: vaginal opening. So there's the inner folds, which are the 83 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 3: inner lips of the vulver, which are the labia manura, 84 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: and then the outer folds or outer lips, which are 85 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: the labia majora. 86 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: And this from your report has found that labia surgery 87 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: is now one of the fastest growing cosmetic procedures among 88 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: young people in the world. What is the reason behind 89 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: this rise? 90 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: What the research sort of seems to suggest is that 91 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: some of the drivers are around the rise of online media, 92 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: including explicit media and pornography, and representations of labia that 93 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 3: are not very diverse basically, so often a very kind 94 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 3: of neat, tucked away presentation which is only one kind 95 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 3: of vulver or LaBier. So we just don't have much 96 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 3: in the public sphere that shows a full diversity, so 97 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: people end up just looking at what is available and 98 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: thinking that they're abnormal, and unfortunately then this can sometimes 99 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 3: lead some people to think that they need surgery. 100 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: This survey found that almost a quarter of respondents feel anxious, unhappy, 101 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: or embarrassed about how their labor looks, and even more 102 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: than that associate their labia with negative words. Can we 103 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: explore more what is driving this negativity around how people 104 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: perceive their labor. 105 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 3: Just to clarify that quarter of response is of quarter 106 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: of gen Z, so younger women aged between eighteen and 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: twenty four. They are a generation that's really grown up 108 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: in a very kind of social media saturated environment. So yeah, 109 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 3: from what our survey found and what other researchers found, 110 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 3: they're just looking at what they see online and feeling like, oh, 111 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: that doesn't look like me. There must be something wrong 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: with me. And perhaps they haven't also had good sex 113 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: ed at school, their parents may not know what's normal. 114 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, they're just into the vacuum comes online pornography 115 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 3: and cosmetic surgery advertising on the internet, and sometimes some 116 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 3: fashion advertising as well. 117 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: And you mentioned that this is a particular concern for 118 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 2: young women. How does people's perception of their labr differ 119 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 2: between the generations. 120 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: So that was a really interesting funding of our study. 121 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: So we surveyed a thousand people aged between eighteen and fifty, 122 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: and essentially the older the respondents were, the more accepting 123 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: they were of that part of their body, particularly people 124 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: who had experienced childbirth. Also tended to have less negative feelings, 125 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: although not all. The other thing that's happened as well 126 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: over time is that fashions, obviously in how people you know, 127 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 3: groom themselves have changed, and so there's been a real 128 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: rise in hair removal, and of course once you remove 129 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 3: the hair, you can see a lot more and that 130 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: again leads to these unhelpful comparisons. 131 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was reading that as well as things like porn, 132 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: that even something like models posting images in swimwear can 133 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: really contribute to this perception of what is. 134 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: Normal exactly that's right, and some clothing that's extremely tight 135 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: fitting or very revealing can't be worn by everybody. So 136 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: again comes back to that feeling of like, oh, there 137 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: must be something wrong with me. I can't wear you know, 138 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 3: this clothing that is all over my social media feeds. 139 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: And beyond internalizing shame and you know the emotional effects 140 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: of this, which can be quite significant, what other areas 141 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: of women's lives does this impact? 142 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: So what we also found is that many of our 143 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: respondents who felt negatively about their labia have put off 144 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: visits to the GP. They feel too embarrassed to have 145 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 3: a pap smear. Sometimes it has impacted some of their 146 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: intimate relationships, so reluctance to have sex, or have sex 147 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: with the lights on or things like that. So yeah, 148 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: these are really quite concerning impacts that are then spilling 149 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 3: over into other areas of women's lives. 150 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: And so we have this Labia library that tries to 151 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: normalize what labia looks like for a whole range of women. 152 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: What else can be done though to help solve this issue? 153 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: So in our report we made three recommendations. One of 154 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: them was around medical education materials for GPS and other 155 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 3: health professionals. Your listeners might be surprised to hear that 156 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: there's often just one quite stereotypical drawing that is used 157 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: in medical textbooks of volver, so we would like to 158 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: see that changed and a greater diversity of images used. 159 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 3: So that's one recommendation. Our second recommendation was also to 160 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: kind of make tools like the Labia library more available 161 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: to sex ed workers who are working in schools and 162 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 3: settings like that, And some interesting research came out recently 163 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: finding thats are actually also very supportive of this on 164 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: the whole. They're quite relaxed about genital diversity being included 165 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: in sex ed material and then our final recommendation was 166 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: around calling on the government to accelerate its efforts to 167 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: limit online pornography access to younger people, just in recognition 168 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: of the fact that a lot of the discussion around 169 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 3: the impacts of pornography on young people has been around 170 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: the link with gender based violence and gender inequality. But 171 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: another aspect of it is just this impact on body 172 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: image because of the lack of diverse bodies shown. That's 173 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: not all pornography, but just talking about some of the 174 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: mainstream material. 175 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 2: And do you have faith that you know, maybe it 176 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: might be a little too late for gen z now, 177 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: but for future generations to come that the perception of 178 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: what a normal labia will look like will be drastically 179 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 2: different to what the perception is now. 180 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: That's our hope. I think that the Laby Library is 181 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 3: a really well visited website. It gets about a million 182 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 3: visits a year and actually from people all over the world, 183 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: hoping to really raise the profile of the Laby Library 184 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 3: in Australia, and one of the key things we've done 185 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,599 Speaker 3: this time around is we've expanded the photo gallery. So 186 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: that was one of the key findings that we had 187 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 3: when we did an evaluation a few years ago was 188 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 3: that people wanted to see more diversity, so we've really 189 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 3: tried to achieve that this time around. 190 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: And for anyone who's not familiar with the Labia Library, 191 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 2: do you want to just explain what exactly it is 192 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: and how you've gone about making it more diverse. 193 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 3: So it's a website that contains a photo gallery of 194 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 3: it now has one hundred and four images of non 195 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,599 Speaker 3: sexualized images of evolvers, and this time we aimed to 196 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 3: get people of a different ages, genders, skin tone, and 197 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: body size. It's a much wider range. It also has 198 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: a whole lot of information on there as well about 199 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 3: what the anatomy of the labia, what the functions of 200 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: the laber are, what to do if someone has said 201 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: something made a comment to you, some stuff around media literacy, 202 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: and also some information for transgender diverse people. 203 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: I was looking at it before, and you know, I've 204 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: just never seen anything like It's such an amazing tool 205 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: for young women. 206 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 3: And I'd also like to kind of point out to 207 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 3: that it's not just for women and people with LABIA. 208 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: It's also for men and boys as well, who also 209 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 3: may not be aware of the full range of diversity. 210 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: That exists. 211 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: Kate, thank you so much for joining the Daily Ods 212 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: this morning. 213 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 3: Thank you for the opportunity. 214 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: What a fascinating discussion, and we'll put a link to 215 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: that full report in today's show notes as well, so 216 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: you can do some reading around the information that we 217 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: discussed in that interview. Thanks for that, Billy, and thank 218 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: you for listening to this episode of The Daily Os. 219 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back again in your years tomorrow morning. Until then, 220 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: have a good Tuesday. 221 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 3: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda 222 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,479 Speaker 3: Bungelung Cargotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 223 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 3: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 224 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 225 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 3: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 226 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.