WEBVTT - THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER'S AUSTRALIAN STORY 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.240 Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:05.840 on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.800 the biggest players in television. What a week it has been. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.680 I've been overwhelmed with the feedback on last week's episode, 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.800 which send it around Binge's new TV series Catch and 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.800 Kill the podcast tapes. I am shocked and a little 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.880 saddened with the amount of people who had Harvey Weinstein's 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.120 stories to share, but sadly the amount of stories from 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.120 subscribers who share their stories regarding an abuse of power. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.040 I think the episode was a little heavy, but also 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.760 an important story to tell. I have been listening to 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.520 a podcast called West Cork, which centers around the murder 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.400 of a famous actress in Ireland. I lived in Ireland 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.000 for a time and I remember hearing different versions of 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.160 this particular crime in It actually was my first dip 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.599 into true crime, which obviously is one of the most 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.680 popular podcast categories on these platforms. This week, I've been 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.400 watching a new TV series called White Lotus on Binge, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.680 which is really bizarre in the best way possible. If 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.280 you want something out of the bag and really unusual, 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.200 then check this one out. It set us around some twisted, 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.520 dark secrets set in a popular resort. The acting is 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.959 first class and I am totally hooked. I'm also about 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.959 to start the latest series of American Horror Story, but 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:16.560 I think i'll get back to you on that one 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.480 next week. This week I have Caitlin Shay, who is 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.720 an executive producer of ABC's Australian Story. It's actually hard 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.120 to believe, but Caitlin has been on the show for 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.600 twenty five years and is currently tuning in some of 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.400 the series' best work. If you've never seen the series, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.240 then I'm actually quite jealous, as you've got some serious 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.480 catching up to do, from missing persons to feel good stories. 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:39.760 The amount of research that has gone into this show 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.920 is remarkable. This one hundred percent puts the real back 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:48.120 into reality television. Australian Story is an award winning documentary 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.280 series with no narrator, no agenda, just authentic stories told 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.920 entirely in people's own words. Each week, Australia has been 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.720 taking thirty minutes to immerse themselves in the life of 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:05.080 an extraordinary Australian. They are sometimes high profile, sometimes controversial, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.920 but always compelling. It's television guaranteed to make you think 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.920 and make you feel. New episodes are available every Monday 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.120 at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on ABCTV. However, let's 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.600 get started with one of Australia's most impressive executive producers. 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:22.080 It's Caitlin Shae. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.320 Sometimes people themselves don't really know what their story is. 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.519 Tonight's Australian Stories about a man. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.560 Can we just have an ordinary person who would present 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.440 the Australian story every week. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.320 I'm stronger than I ever thought I was. 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.480 I kind of pointed as stories that make you think 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.320 and feel. A Brisbane teenager is in intensive care after 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.160 he was seriously hurt in a high school rugby match. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.600 I want to tell Indigenous stories. We want to tell 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.000 it stories with more diversity. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.520 There was absolutely no doubt in my mind that it 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.960 was a positive thing for the environment and also a 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.040 positive thing for people. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.560 A good story is not about the great pictures or 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.280 the great soundtrack, all the amazing graphics. It's about the story. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:05.400 Well, thank you so much for having me. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.000 I love talking about Australian Story because I have been 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.600 on the program since the beginning and it's kind. 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:12.400 Of in my DNA. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.320 You have worked on Australian Story for twenty five years, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.079 just celebrating the jubilee, which is quite impressive. My question 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.760 for you is what is your driving passion with investigative journalism? 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:24.400 Well, Australian Story. 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.639 You know, we've kind of spent a bit of time 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.120 going well, what are we, how do we in the 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.080 mix of programs that the ABC does, Where do we fit? 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.120 And what we've kind of come down to is that 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.680 we tell compelling personal stories that have a sense of 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.000 revelation to them. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.160 Precious Max was living in long Pin with his girlfriend 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.720 Charlene Savarino, and both of them were part of an 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.120 international drug syndicate who were operating to lure Australian men 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.080 and women to travel to Cambodia to bring drugs back 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.440 into Australia. 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:06.080 So sometimes they're investigative, but often their profiles it's just 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.320 the full gamut. And I think part of the reason 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.680 I love the program so much is that we take 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.440 this kind of narrationless documentary style and we apply it 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.159 to anything I go. There's nothing that we can't do 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:21.400 in our narrationless style. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.200 How did Australian Story come about? What roads led you 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.440 to this incredible body of work well. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.040 Australian Story came about, I think because the ABC realized 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.320 that it needed to be doing more programming about people 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:41.400 and particularly in rural and regional areas. And originally when 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.599 the concept was floated, it was called Australian Correspondent and 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.880 it was going to be foreign correspondent but set in Australia, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.600 So it was going to be largely that personality based 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.839 journalism of the correspondent going in and telling the story. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.120 And something happened a lot on the line with then 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.640 the executive producer who decided that she wanted less of 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.400 the journalist on camera and more of the characters on camera. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.800 So some of the original journalists that we had that 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.840 were employed at that stage actually decided that they didn't 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.400 want to be on a program that wasn't featuring them 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.640 so much but was featuring the talent more. So then 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.520 that started this model of narrationless based television where it 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.320 was all about as a producer who was assigned a story, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.800 your role was to encourage talent i e. The story 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.320 subjects to tell their story in their own words, and 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.240 then we would put that together and create a story. 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:39.279 Out of that. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.240 I love the intro It's one of my favorite things 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.279 about it that you've found someone who really truly fits 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.720 the story instead of just an everyday journalist or the 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.680 same journalist on every episode. I think that could be 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:50.480 quite powerful. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.359 Do you know I have a little part to play 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:53.919 in all of that. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.040 So I was a young twenty something when I first 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.880 joined the program, and I was just really antie this 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.960 whole concept of the all seeing, all knowing presenter who 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.240 sat behind a desk and would present this story to you. 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.719 And this was before the days of reality TV and 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:17.280 Big Brother, when you know, ordinary people couldn't be on television. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.520 And I came up with this idea, what about we 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.440 change it every week and we just have an ordinary 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.000 person who would present the Australian story every week. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.520 Hi, I'm Jodi Meers. I'm a fashion designer and big 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.080 time supporter of the young woman you're about to meet, 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.440 Tara Winkler, is the force of nature behind an organization 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.360 that's helping some of the world's most impoverished families in Gambodia. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.880 So we started that and we found that a lot 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.919 of ordinary people aren't very big television presenters, but we 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.840 have kept with that concept. The whole time in that 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.760 we mix it up every week. You never know who 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.919 you're going to get. Who's going to present Australian story 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.520 this week. It's somebody who's got some kind of connection 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.640 to the subject or to the topic. Because we had 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.400 Caroline Jones who was our sort of semi permanent presenter 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.960 for quite a long time, and she was just a 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.720 legend of Australian television and she really helped us get 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.080 some credibility when we first started twenty five years ago. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:15.840 Over a fifty year career. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:21.360 Colleagues admired her calmness, dignity and determination to expose injustice 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:22.160 and wrongdoing. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:23.640 So when she. 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.200 Left was really sad because we all love Caroline. But 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.360 we went for a long time who could be this 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.840 next presenter for Australian Story And we haven't been able 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.280 to find anybody who we think can kind of do 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.800 that broad gamut of story presenting from all different topics, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.720 all different people, and so we just kind of change 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.280 it up every week and ask different people and just 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.480 try and keep that mixed going. And I'm glad that 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.880 you say that you really like it, because it's a 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:52.840 bit of an effort every week trying to find somebody 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.200 who's going to be a good presenter and somebody who 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.400 has got that connection to the story. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.200 My favorite parts of a current affair programming is when 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.960 you don't really remember the presenter if they've done their 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:06.960 job well, they're kind of a little bit invisible. 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:08.880 I completely agree with you. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.800 I watch programming now that has that presenter who inserts 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:18.400 themselves into the shots and the voiceover. I don't know, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.840 it just irritates me so much that voiceover. You have 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.440 to virtually be like David Attenbrough, or you have to 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.360 bring something so special to it for me to enjoy 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.520 that kind of storytelling. I just love being able to 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.840 work it out for myself. I love just seeing that 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.600 story laid out there and I make those connections rather 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.719 than having somebody making those connections for me in voiceover. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:45.960 So I'm the same as you. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.320 I love the choices that you make when you put 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.040 the shows together. I love your choices of text instead 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:52.720 of a voiceover. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:57.600 If we're doing a complex legal story and we want 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:03.640 that really neutral voice to deliver some information that doesn't 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.880 seem partisan, then we'll just put that text on screen 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.559 to say, you know, the court found that bloody bloody 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.880 bla and she was sentenced to blidy bloody blah. I 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.400 always feel that's a really good use of captions on screen. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.600 And one of the things that we've had, i think 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.360 since virtually the beginning is we have what we call 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.880 end captions, so the story finishes and then you just 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:31.600 get some really pertinent and pivotal information just expressed really 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.440 clearly and cleanly at the end. I think that always 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:35.520 works really well for us. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.079 To think about the amount of times where they put 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.080 an over emotional score behind it. Sometimes when it goes 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.559 silent and then you get what's happened in the past 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.800 or something that's happened in the future. That's I think 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.080 it's way more powerful than over complicating it or overproducing 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:51.959 it and just trying to be too a motive with 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:52.440 a score. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.880 Yes, I like what you said before. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.920 I always see putting together Australian story is having a 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:03.480 ten thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. But this puzzle hasn't come 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.200 out of a factory, and there's a way to do 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.480 it with a picture on the front. You have to 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.520 create that puzzle yourself with words and pictures and music 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.600 and whatever else, and you have to kind of force 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.560 those pieces to fit. They just aren't perfectly cut, so 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.320 there is a lot of editing that goes on to 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.320 make all those pieces fit together. In fact, we spend 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.160 about four weeks in the edit suite for every thirty 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.960 minute story, which is pretty quick for narrationless television. To 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.720 be honest, you know, those big docos would be in 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:37.760 the edit sweet firm. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:38.280 Months and months. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.439 It's really difficult. And I think people watch Austragon's story 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.640 and go, well, that was so seamless. That story just 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.600 made sense. It unfolded so beautifully. So much work has 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.200 gone into making it appear that way. You know, people 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.839 don't speak in perfect answers and perfect grabs. Sometimes people 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.680 themselves don't really know what their story is, and it 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.400 sometimes takes us to cut to come along and look 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.640 at it with the big picture, to go, ah, that's 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.120 what the narrative is. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.920 I was suddenly unsure of everything, of how I'd lived 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.280 my life, for how I'd been with my mother, if 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.280 I'd been enough of a daughter to her. 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.480 It's really really difficult, and I'm actually sort of don't 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.560 know how bosses at the ABC understand how difficult it 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.760 is to create this narrationless television in this really short 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:27.520 amount of time. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.079 I'd love to call you after every episode and then 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.000 for you to tell me all of the things that 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:32.600 went wrong. 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.520 You wouldn't believe what happened. Oh my god, we didn't 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.600 think we were going to get it to air. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.960 It's always like that. There's always some drama every single story. 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.600 How has Australian story evolved over the years, do you think, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.560 because twenty five years of storytelling is phenomenal. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:46.000 It is. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.720 When I started, everything was shot on tapes, so we 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.000 had digib to CAM I think it was, and these 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:59.000 tapes were expensive, so you didn't go overshooting. And when 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.520 I started, you do an interview and you had to 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:07.200 transcribe your own interview yourself. We had these basic linear 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.600 edit suites, so your script had to be perfect. I've 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.360 seen so much technology change in that time, and I 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.880 think the big step forward in evolution for us was 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.479 when we moved to nonlinear edit systems, so that suddenly 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.360 we could put it all out there and go that 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.720 bit in the middle should be at the start, that's 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.760 the vision that should be there. But in the olden 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.000 days when I started, like for the first few years, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.960 I think if you go back and look at our 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:38.520 stories from twenty five years ago. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:39.600 Some of them. 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.120 Aren't that great, some of them don't quite make sense 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.120 because we were editing in this very linear way. So 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.080 I think that that's probably where we've evolved the most, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:55.600 is that our ability to edit and get clarity and 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.679 you know, push the story for drama. I just think 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.840 our storytelling has got better over the last twenty five years. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.959 And I think too, maybe some of our visual filmmaking 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.560 was a little bit cliched and corny in the past. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.319 I think we've got better. 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:09.760 At that too. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.800 Was there ever a time where you thought, I'm going 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.760 to do this whole thing differently? I remember reading your 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.280 fear that you thought the show could end up being 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.320 like an old, comfortable pair of slippers. So I imagine 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.600 that there has been some reinventing along the way to 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.000 keep it fresh for the audience. 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.320 I know that as a producer, as I got to 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.080 understand how to really script well, because that was. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.600 Probably a little dodgy at the start that I. 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.680 Went every story I do, I have to challenge myself 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:40.920 and I have to do something different. If I'm not 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.000 doing something different with every single story, then I'm not 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.760 learning I'm not growing, the format's not growing. 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.760 There is a pressure sometimes to try and change something 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.520 that is working perfectly, and I guess that's sort of 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.800 the essence of that question is do you feel that 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.560 pressure and has there been a point where you've just 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:58.520 flipped it on its head? 0:13:58.640 --> 0:13:59.839 Well, very interesting. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.880 After Caroline Jones, our founding presenter, left, we experimented with 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.240 not having a presenter at all, so the theme tune 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.680 was on and then bang, it went straight into the 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.240 story and it didn't work at all. 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.959 And I thought at the time it didn't work because we. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.280 Were having to front load that introduction to what the 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.680 story was, the who, what, when, where, and why we 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.360 were having to front load at all, And I think 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:28.760 that was part of the reason why it didn't work. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.960 But I think another reason why it didn't work was 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.480 that that presenter is that time that people sit and 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.360 relax and that they are gently introduced to what this 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.680 story is going to be about. It's like a warm welcome. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.000 And that's what somebody said to me, that they're now 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.720 missing that warm welcome to Australian's story. So that was 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.680 a time we experimented and it didn't work, and we 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.480 realized pretty quickly within you know, maybe six months or 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.360 so that that wasn't working, and then we just sort 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.800 of we actually brought back the presenter just as a 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.640 sort of one time only thing. Everybody went, oh, thank god, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.040 you've got the presenter back, and we've just kept it 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.680 going ever since. So we have tried some experimenting. I 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.640 just think that for me, we just keep pushing it 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.280 in terms of the stories that we want to tell 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.040 the complexity of those stories that we want to tell, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.920 that we never get fall back into cliche. That we 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.400 always get as much clarity as we can in terms 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.920 of our stories. Because in the olden days, what will 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.320 we competing with? These days, we are competing with those 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.200 fantastic docos on Netflix. That's what we're being compared to. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.240 Our little old program. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:37.680 Is being compared to that. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.120 So the bar is so high these days, and you know, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.120 we're just you know, really really trying hard. On our 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.360 very limited budget and with our very limited resources. We're 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.320 just doing the best that we possibly can. 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.760 You know, I think Australian story is twenty years ahead 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.440 of the true crime phenomenon. The way that you unpack 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.160 your stories draw people in to offer you some context. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.280 If you're flicking the channel and you come across a 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.680 strand story you just can't turn away. Can you see 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.520 the parallel between true crime and the way Australian story 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:08.520 has always been told? 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.960 Well, we really saw the power of true crime that 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.720 our founding EP, Deborah Fleming, who was a legend, she 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.360 saw the power of true crime really really early on. 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.920 So if you were to go back through our archive, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.080 you would see, oh my god, they were doing those 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.520 stories way back then and doing them well. So that 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.360 is certainly one of the staples in our repertoire. We 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.840 know that the audience enjoys that true crime genre, and. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:37.800 I do agree with you. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.160 We have that sense of when we're structuring a story 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.560 that you have to tease it at the start, you 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.600 have to lure people in. You don't give too much 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.560 away there's some question that's not being answered here. We 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.120 really structure those stories very keenly around those sorts of, 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.560 as you say, true crime storytelling principles. But then that 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:03.160 applies to one of the big successes of our program 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.000 has been when we step into that little celebrity space 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.440 and that profile space that's always been you know, one 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.200 of the fundamental things that we've done to and the 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.120 audience really really enjoys that. Another thing that we're very 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.840 very aware of is that our audience loves nostalgia. Everybody 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.280 loves tripping down memory lane and going, oh, I remember 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.800 that from when I was a child. It sparks so 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.240 many emotions in us. And you know, I'm not ashamed 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.359 of the fact that Australian Story I kind of coined 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.400 as stories that make you think and feel, and I'm 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.199 not ashamed of the fact that we want you to 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.399 feel something when you watch Australian Story. We don't want 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.840 you to have the tissues out every week. That's not 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:48.920 our intention at all, but we do want you to 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:49.639 feel something. 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.960 And that's the surprise I think, you know, with changing 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.520 around from politics to an unlikely friendship story or a 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.960 celebrity story. You know, there's just such a tapestry there 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.440 that allows us as a viewer to have so many 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.520 different types of emotions, which I think is the magic 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.240 behind this program. What story was your favorite and why 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.480 was that your favorite? 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.520 There's so many stories and for me, some of my 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.240 favorite stories are those stories that I had the most 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.000 fun on as a producer. You know, part of the 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.520 joy of working on this program is working in a team. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.159 And I had so much fun filming that story or 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.880 the talent were just so great to hang out with. 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.160 I guess I have a few key ones in my career. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.879 There was one about a quadriplegic farmer, and he and 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.920 I are still friends and he calls me from time 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.359 to time. But there are so many stories that I 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.479 admire from what other producers. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.200 Have done too. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.760 So I can tell you which stories the audience liked 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.760 was the story of and it still has brought up 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.440 to me all the time. Gale and mac Shan, the 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.639 young couple, lived on a farm. She was involved in 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.560 a terrible accident where her arm was ripped off by 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.520 a posthol digit was terrible. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.320 When the doctors told us that the left arm was 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:09.840 paralyzed and to their knowledge, your repairable. We were terrified 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.480 of telling Gail because we thought she might not want 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:13.960 to go on. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.640 But her tenacity through it all, their love story through 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.280 it all. Our audience just loves that one. I think 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.359 Gayl and macshan have got a bit sick of us 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.200 coming to them all the time saying can we please 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.280 update your story, because that's a big thing about what 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:27.800 we do too. 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.320 I often watch a strain and story and I think, oh, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.480 that didn't give me everything I needed. They're going to 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.600 revisit this, and I'm going to look forward to that. Yeah, 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.760 you know, yes, And it's not that you haven't tidy 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.719 the story off properly at the time. It has evolved 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.280 and has been brilliant, but you can't help it sometimes 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.080 wonder where's this going to go? That must be so 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.000 amazing to know that your viewers want to know more. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.200 Well, you know, we came up with the update idea 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.520 simply because if you're doing an update, it's recycling. You 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.320 can take twenty minutes of that thirty minute program, you 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.520 can take that chunk, you can use that chunk, you 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.199 put a bit of new stuff at the top, a 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.320 bit of new stuff at the end, and you've got 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.480 a whole new program. So for us, that saved money, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.840 that saved time, and the audience loved it because they'd 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.280 already got to know these characters. So finding out the 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.240