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Speaker 1: Territorians who enjoy a drink. Well, you might have noticed

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Speaker 1: that the price of grog's gone up a bit recently,

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Speaker 1: and it's due to an increase in the Federal government's

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Speaker 1: alcohol excise, which took effect on the first of August. Now,

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Speaker 1: this hidden tax has gone up, goes up about every

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Speaker 1: six months by the look of it for the last

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Speaker 1: thirty five years, hitting pub goers in the hip pockets,

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Speaker 1: and the industry is calling for a reduction to the

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Speaker 1: beer tax. Now joining us in the studio is the

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Speaker 1: Australian Hotels Association and national CEO Stephen Ferguson. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Stephen, Katie. Great to be here in Darwin.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you enjoying the beautiful weather. It's been

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Speaker 1: a little bit warm. You missed out like about a

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Speaker 1: week or two ago it was slightly cooler.

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Speaker 2: I have no complaints from anyone up here about the warm.

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Speaker 1: No, I bet you haven't. Now tell me in terms

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Speaker 1: of the tax, how much extra are people now paying

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Speaker 1: when it comes to this tax hike.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a really ingenious tax, Katie, because what it

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Speaker 3: is is a small amount across a massive broad base.

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Speaker 3: So in context, the current revenue from government is about

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Speaker 3: seven billion dollars. Over the next four years that will

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Speaker 3: increase to eight billion, which is another billion dollars out

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Speaker 3: of partners' pockets. Now to put it in context, and

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Speaker 3: probably the worst part of the taxes on say a

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Speaker 3: bottle of Bundy rum or your favorite gin. On a

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Speaker 3: sixty dollars bottle of rum or gin, thirty eight dollars

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Speaker 3: goes in tax to the government. That's two thirds goes

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Speaker 3: in tax to the government. Beer is far Beer is

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Speaker 3: far less, but still what drives people mad, I think

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Speaker 3: is that it's a hidden tax.

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Speaker 2: It's basically a tax on hospitality. It's a tax on jobs.

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Speaker 3: And what we're asking the government to do, as it

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Speaker 3: relates to on premise so pubs, clubs and restaurants, is

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Speaker 3: to give us a significant reduction there. We're asking for

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Speaker 3: forty percent just so we can take that cost away.

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Speaker 3: Hoteliers and restauranteurs manage cost the best they can, but

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Speaker 3: they can do what they can to control their own

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Speaker 3: interest costs that they pay, guard against inflation, energy costs

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Speaker 3: and whatever. But the cost that in the drink that

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Speaker 3: the government controls is the cost of excise and the

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Speaker 3: government you've been doing it for thirty years, start telling

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Speaker 3: the truth, start owning up to its start owning the issue.

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Speaker 3: And you know this is the one cost in a

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Speaker 3: beer or a Roman cake that is down to you.

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Speaker 2: Give the part to you.

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Speaker 1: Why are they you know, what are they saying to

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Speaker 1: the industry in terms of why they need to have

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Speaker 1: that tax or why it keeps going up.

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Speaker 3: They're listening, all famous, they're listening, but you know, you

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Speaker 3: never I always joke that, you know, if you see

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Speaker 3: that it if a government goes and paints a park bench,

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Speaker 3: well you'll have a politician in front nodding furiously away,

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Speaker 3: with twenty knighting heads behind them, you know, which for

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Speaker 3: something that's relatively minor. But when they're about to rip

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Speaker 3: another billion dollars out of partners pockets crickets, you don't

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Speaker 3: see them for anywhere. You're never seen an announcement from

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Speaker 3: government about them going to increase tax. Both sides of parliament,

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Speaker 3: both the left and right, Labor and the Coalition always say,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're the part of lower taxes. Well, when

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Speaker 3: it comes to having a beer in a pub.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose I'm trying to play devil's advocate here,

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Speaker 1: you know they might say, well, the reason the tax

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Speaker 1: goes up is because that alcohol issuse can have an

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Speaker 1: impact then on the health system, and you know that's

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Speaker 1: why they need that additional the additional tax money coming in.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to that?

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Speaker 2: Extremely valid and we're not arguing that.

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Speaker 3: What we're saying though, is that as about about twenty

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Speaker 3: percent of liquor is sold in pubs, clubs and restaurants,

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Speaker 3: eighty percent three bottle shops. It's generally cheap for anyway,

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Speaker 3: but to pour a beer or a whiskey into a

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Speaker 3: glass in a pub or a club or a restaurant

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Speaker 3: takes labor. And we're saying it's that portion that we're

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Speaker 3: saying you can decrease. Now you know it's going to

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Speaker 3: be it's seven billion at the moment. All we're asking

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Speaker 3: is probably worth about a couple of hundred million just

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Speaker 3: to take that pain point away and really to get

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Speaker 3: them to own up that this is a cost that

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Speaker 3: they impose and start being upfront of it.

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Speaker 1: Well. And the fact is, you know, we need workforce

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Speaker 1: in these industries as well. I know that in some locations,

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Speaker 1: the likes of the Northern Territory, for example, it may

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Speaker 1: be that some of those positions are hard to fill.

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Speaker 1: The cost of livings going up, the cost of every

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Speaker 1: things going up, and people going out to pubs and

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Speaker 1: clubs and restaurants because they don't have that disposable income

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Speaker 1: like they once had in the past. It's maybe not

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Speaker 1: as you know, they're may be not spending as much

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Speaker 1: when they do go up.

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Speaker 3: First, I mean, there's a whole range of drivers as

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Speaker 3: well as excise. It puts the price up, you know,

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Speaker 3: as I said, it's inflation, interest, energy costs. All those

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Speaker 3: things are contributing to the cost of food. Basically, it's

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Speaker 3: all the barley and whatever that goes into the price

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Speaker 3: for beer. All those costs are increasing. But this is

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Speaker 3: the one cost that the government's control. And more importantly,

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Speaker 3: one of the funny sort of anomalies of it is

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Speaker 3: is that excise gets taxed when the keg of beer

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Speaker 3: leaves the brewery gate, but that tax then sits there

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Speaker 3: with GST over the top. So what we end up

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Speaker 3: with is we get GST on a tax. So it's

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Speaker 3: a tax on a tax, and it's simple things like that.

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Speaker 3: We're saying they both both sides of government. This has

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Speaker 3: been going for thirty years you know, we're a bit sick.

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Speaker 3: If you're saying that, you're listening, it's time that they

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Speaker 3: did something about it, because.

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Speaker 2: The punters are aware and heading into an election.

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Speaker 1: Does it have an impact on the workforce.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely well.

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Speaker 3: More importantly, we were talking about security before, the poor

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Speaker 3: people that cop it. Every time the price of a

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Speaker 3: beer goes up, as the person behind the bar and

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Speaker 3: that's either the publican or the boy or the girl

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Speaker 3: serving the drink when the locals come in and say,

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Speaker 3: oh gee, you've whacked up the price, and it's most

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Speaker 3: often exercise is a driver. And once again there's just

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Speaker 3: lack of action from government and addressing this issue. And

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Speaker 3: if they say they're the party of lower taxes, if

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Speaker 3: they're feeding about cost of living, here's the one cost

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Speaker 3: that they can control and we're asked them to do

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Speaker 3: something about it.

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Speaker 1: Stephen, you're in Darwin obviously for lots of meetings this week.

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Speaker 1: What are you hearing from operators around the place?

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Speaker 3: Oh, look, I mean I think the hotels are full

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Speaker 3: at the moment. They're telling us that the season started

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Speaker 3: here a bit late in the dry we're staying in town.

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Speaker 2: There's absolutely choc A block full of people.

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Speaker 3: So there's people out and about, but anyone that's flown

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Speaker 3: here from down South it's twelve hundred bucks for an

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Speaker 3: economy airfare. Now that's crazy. That's driven by the airlines.

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Speaker 3: It's also driven by airport landing costs. Once again, there's

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Speaker 3: a whole heap of factors that go to that. But

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Speaker 3: if you're sitting in Sydney or Melbourne or Adelaide and

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Speaker 3: looking say, oh white headed north to Darwin and go

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Speaker 3: and look at the territory and you go, wow, twenty

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Speaker 3: four hundred bucks return for economy, you can probably fly

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Speaker 3: the family to Bali or Vietnam.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing. Yeah, that's the thing. It's so expensive

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Speaker 1: to get here at this at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a really limiting factor.

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Speaker 3: We've got the Accommodation Association Accommodation in Australia we work

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Speaker 3: closely with. Fortunately we're just in We've got a new

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Speaker 3: CEO who used to work for the airport's corporation. He's

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Speaker 3: really across all issues to do with flights and airports.

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Speaker 3: So I think he's someone that we're going to be

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Speaker 3: able to really sort of This will be something that

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Speaker 3: he tries to get his teeth into.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be keen to find out more because it

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Speaker 1: is something we talk a lot about in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: the cost of flights, not only for tourism, but also

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Speaker 1: for connectivity. Right Like, if you live here and you

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Speaker 1: want to be able to travel away to see your

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Speaker 1: family or bring your family here. Their tourists too once

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Speaker 1: they get to once they get here, they send their money.

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Speaker 3: I'm going out to the bid Food debay this morning

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Speaker 3: and bid Food and one of the big supplies to

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Speaker 3: the hospitality industry up here, and I'm keen to talk

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Speaker 3: to them about the costs that they have in trying

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Speaker 3: to get food into the territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's a good point. Hey, in terms

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Speaker 1: of some of the issues that we've got locally, I

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Speaker 1: mean security guards at bottle shops, we know that that's

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Speaker 1: something that we see quite regularly here in the NT.

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Speaker 1: It's no you know, it's no surprise to anybody that

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Speaker 1: we've had a lot of issues when it comes to

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Speaker 1: some of our takeaway outlets being targeted in things like

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Speaker 1: ram raids and also people just sort of turning up

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Speaker 1: and you know, stealing alcohol. It's I'm sure that it's

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Speaker 1: something that's been discussed with you as you do head

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Speaker 1: around speaking to different retailers.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Look, I think the problem plays out most commonly

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Speaker 3: and this is just anecdotally for me sort of in

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Speaker 3: the northern parts of Australia.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: It is, It is visible and on the ground in

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Speaker 3: the cities. But the stories you hear, I mean there's

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Speaker 3: been really upsetting incidents in Darwin. I think the northern

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Speaker 3: territories probably taking is leading the charge and what the

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Speaker 3: governments are about and the opposition because I think it's

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Speaker 3: both both sides are together on this. The security of

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Speaker 3: staff and patrons is paramount and they're enabling bottle shops

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Speaker 3: especially and hotels to do what they can to protect themselves.

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Speaker 3: You see that the bottle shops here there are a

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Speaker 3: very different environment to what you see down south. But

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Speaker 3: we understand that a lot of the big liquor operators

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Speaker 3: looking to say, well, okay, if you're putting perspex boxes

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Speaker 3: in Darwin works, they need to look at rolling it

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Speaker 3: out down south. I think that the NT is probably

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Speaker 3: the point edge of the wedge, but what they're learning

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Speaker 3: up here they'll take back and implement, as I say,

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Speaker 3: to keep staff and patron.

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Speaker 1: Safe In terms of some of the different legislation that

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Speaker 1: we've got in the Northern Territory, I mean things like

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Speaker 1: the BDRE, how does it stack up to other stuff?

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Speaker 3: Once again, I think the nts at the point of end.

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Speaker 3: So you don't have BDRs. I think, say in Western

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Speaker 3: Australia would both the Tropic of Capricorn in the cities

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Speaker 3: in the Southern States and you don't have you know,

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Speaker 3: but it's a tool that you need and state governments

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Speaker 3: are very very good at sharing information and often they

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Speaker 3: come up with different solutions. But all these, all the

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Speaker 3: different mechanisms that are put in place in places like

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Speaker 3: Darwin or the NT are often taken back down south.

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Speaker 1: And effect does it make it in terms of some

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Speaker 1: of the discussions that you have, I suppose with local businesses,

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Speaker 1: does it make it more difficult do you think sometimes

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Speaker 1: to do business in the Northern Territory maybe than what

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Speaker 1: it is in other states?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think if you look at the cost that

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Speaker 3: has to go into security, whether this is your local growsing,

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Speaker 3: whether it's your bottle shop, your butcher, whoever, I think

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Speaker 3: the security costs in the NT would be far greater

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Speaker 3: than what you'd see down south. I think that's the

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Speaker 3: that's the biggest thing. And staff training, and I think

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Speaker 3: there's and the anxiety. I mean all these business many

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Speaker 3: of these businesses are run by families themselves, and for

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Speaker 3: them to sit around, they worry about their staff and

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Speaker 3: they worry about the safety of their staff.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a big driver.

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Speaker 3: It's not only the cost, it's the anxiety for staff

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Speaker 3: and the business owners who want everyone to go home

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Speaker 3: safe at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big week for you guys. By the

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Speaker 1: sounds of it. You've got plenty of people here as well.

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Speaker 1: You've brought along your friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we've got about sixty people up here. We've

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Speaker 3: got our National Board, we've got all our supplies, we've

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Speaker 3: got the CEOs of Lion Biers, cub Diagio, Treasury Wine.

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Speaker 3: We've had great engagement with both sides of government up here.

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Speaker 3: We've caught up with Eva Laula, Joel Bowden, Brent Potter,

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Speaker 3: Leah Fanocciaio, Claire Birthby and on the federal sphere. Just

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Speaker 3: send a name of timber Price and Luke Goslink. So

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Speaker 3: everyone's given us a great hearing and I've got to

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Speaker 3: say on issues when it's relating to security of staff

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Speaker 3: and patrons.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's on the same page.

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Speaker 3: I just love it if they'd all stopped listening about

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Speaker 3: excise and actually do something about it.

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Speaker 1: We're waiting, see, we're waiting, so Stephen Lovely to speak

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Speaker 1: to you this morning. I really appreciate you coming into

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Speaker 1: the studio and uh and we'll see you next time

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Speaker 1: you're in Darwin.

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Speaker 2: And good luck getting an NFL time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,