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Speaker 1: Now, in some good news, the Northern Territory government is

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Speaker 1: set to invest twenty one million dollars into more social

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Speaker 1: and affordable housing across Darwin, Palmerston, Catherine, Alice Springs and

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Speaker 1: Tenant Creek. Money is also going to be invested on

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Speaker 1: the affordable housing rental Subsidy program and there will be

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Speaker 1: an investment into building additional affordable housing units in Palmerston

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Speaker 1: and Catherine. Now to tell us a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about what all of this means, it is the Minister

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Speaker 1: for Urban Housing and also Territory Families, Kate Warden, Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie Minisa.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about what this twenty one

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Speaker 1: million dollars is going to be invested in.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, yeah, sure, so we announced yesterday that we are

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Speaker 2: investing twenty one million or likely to be over the

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Speaker 2: next twelve months. But it seemed it's really about diversifying

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Speaker 2: our stock and really putting more roofs over the heads

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Speaker 2: because I think every time we talk about housing and

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Speaker 2: the need for good housing, you know that means that

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Speaker 2: if you're in a stable home, your kids can go

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Speaker 2: to the local school regularly. You're not moving about that

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Speaker 2: you you know, you can get an education yourself as

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Speaker 2: an adult can get an education, but all more important

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Speaker 2: than you can actually get employment. So that's why we

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Speaker 2: were investing. Because if you're talking about the affordable housing

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Speaker 2: space as well, and that's what we're this announcement yesterday

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Speaker 2: really was drilled down to it's seven million dollars was

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Speaker 2: the big announcement yesterday of that twenty one. That's the

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Speaker 2: beginning of it. That means we can put more affordable

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Speaker 2: housing out. And what happens in affordable kdie is if

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Speaker 2: you've got to you know, you move into it an

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Speaker 2: affordable house, you've got a subsidy on rent because those guys,

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Speaker 2: the affordable housing, the community housing providers, they don't pay

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Speaker 2: a whole heap of things like GST. They don't. They

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Speaker 2: actually are able to get Commonwealth rental assistance, which we

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Speaker 2: can't get in public housing. But if you then get

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Speaker 2: a job, you don't have to leave that house with them,

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Speaker 2: whereas as you would know, you know, in social housing

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Speaker 2: there are thresholds for income you would then have to

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Speaker 2: move out of that. So that's that's really important, but

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Speaker 2: very specifically for that seven million dollars, that will provide

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Speaker 2: forty one new houses and in that there's some houses

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Speaker 2: in Cathlin, eight new dwellings in Catherine. Yeah, there are

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Speaker 2: eight dwellings in Parmesan that have just been built that

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Speaker 2: we're partnering with Venture in the purchase of those. But

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Speaker 2: also a really exciting one in Palmerston is about twenty

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Speaker 2: five new very small studio apartments and they're repurposing some

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Speaker 2: old office accommodation actually in the heart of Palmerston. So

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Speaker 2: there's three big projects under that seven million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Right, So Kate for those out there listening this morning

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Speaker 1: who maybe don't know like I know, for a lot

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Speaker 1: of us, and we have spoken to Peter McMillan from

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Speaker 1: NT Shelter about this before, but for a lot of

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Speaker 1: us we understand, you know, either renting your own property

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Speaker 1: or buying your own home, and then we understand what

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Speaker 1: public housing is. But when you talk about that affordable

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Speaker 1: housing or social house seeing, how does that differ from

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Speaker 1: public housing.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so when you talk about housing, you talk about

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Speaker 2: a housing continuum. I know it's a bit sort of

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Speaker 2: a policy word, but what it means is that first

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Speaker 2: foot in the door is often social housing. But then

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Speaker 2: we want you to engage and be sort of solid

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Speaker 2: become solidified, and you know, then you would move into

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Speaker 2: that whole social and affordable housing space. As I said,

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Speaker 2: when you get into affordable housing, that gives you cheaper

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Speaker 2: rent and so they because they can get that Commonwealth

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Speaker 2: subsidy that we can't, so it will keep your rent down,

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Speaker 2: not as low as social housing, but certainly so people

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Speaker 2: on lower incomes. I know out of my electrod ize

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Speaker 2: connected several people through to Venture Housing, which is one

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Speaker 2: of our community housing providers here in the territory. And

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Speaker 2: what they do is they look at that income and

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Speaker 2: if you're if you're a person in hospitality, a single

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Speaker 2: person in hospitality with a low wage, because we know

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Speaker 2: that that sector, or you know other sectors like childcare,

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Speaker 2: if you're kicking off a nursing career or your studying,

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Speaker 2: your income's not necessarily high enough to afford some of

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Speaker 2: the high rents that we see here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: So it really is that stepping stone so you could

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Speaker 2: go into affordable housing that rent gets kept as low

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Speaker 2: as possible for you on a lower income. That allows

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Speaker 2: you to live a better life, but it also allows

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Speaker 2: you to save a deposit for then that next step.

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Speaker 2: So it's that whole continuum of housing. It's sort of

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Speaker 2: the middle piece that the territory has been missing in

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Speaker 2: the past. Yep.

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Speaker 3: And so who will be eligible.

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Speaker 2: In so if you're a low income worker and that's

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Speaker 2: you know, in areas like health, professional hospitality. So when

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Speaker 2: we talk about so there's two components of the seven

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Speaker 2: million dollars yesterday, Katie. One is in the provision of

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Speaker 2: the affordable housing and Venture themselves would determine your income

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Speaker 2: according to their own policies whether you're eligible. But I

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Speaker 2: guess if you're just outside the threshold of public housing,

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Speaker 2: then that's the sort of person that we would really

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Speaker 2: encourage to contact are community housing provided to get into that.

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Speaker 2: But the other part of that is a subsidy for

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Speaker 2: key workers. So that's a three million dollars. That's the

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Speaker 2: first time in the territory this is being done, Katie.

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Speaker 2: And what that is is a scheme for those key workers.

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Speaker 2: Part of it is and I saw some of the

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Speaker 2: criticism people were sort of saying, oh, well, it's not

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Speaker 2: about interstated, but that's not what this is about. This

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Speaker 2: is about, Yes, per component of it is attracting workers

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Speaker 2: to the territory perhaps in that lower income for those subsidies,

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Speaker 2: but it's also key workers at the moment territorians that

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Speaker 2: are here that can apply to Adventure for that subsidy,

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Speaker 2: and that's three million dollars that they'll work on to

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Speaker 2: provide money to those key workers in those areas that

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Speaker 2: I outlined. You know, if you're just kicking out as

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Speaker 2: I said, as a nurse, if you're a spaceline teacher,

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Speaker 2: all of those sort of lower but key workers that

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Speaker 2: we need more of here in the territory. But we'd

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Speaker 2: also obviously look after those that are here. And that's

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Speaker 2: a subsidy of between six and twelve dollars a year

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Speaker 2: per person.

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Speaker 1: And do we have any idea how many people might

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Speaker 1: fall into that category. I know obviously it's a three

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Speaker 1: million dollar investment, but do we have any idea how

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Speaker 1: many people that will be supporting I can't.

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Speaker 2: It's over a twelve month period and Venture have worked

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Speaker 2: with us to work that through, So I think it's

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Speaker 2: been worked out that subsidy between six and twelve thousand

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Speaker 2: per person over a twelve month period. You'd have to

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Speaker 2: have a chat to Venture about how they came to

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Speaker 2: that formula. But that's I've just off the top of

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Speaker 2: my head, Katie, I can't recall how many people that wells.

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Speaker 2: But it has been worked through that. It's a twelve

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Speaker 2: month program. It's the first of its kind, and for

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Speaker 2: that three million dollars we can help as many as

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Speaker 2: for people as possible.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, for those listening this morning who are going

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Speaker 1: through serious rental strain or they're struggling to find a home,

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Speaker 1: what would you say to them?

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Speaker 2: So, I would say to them, it depends on it

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Speaker 2: depends on their income, Katie obviously. But well, one thing

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Speaker 2: is you know, have a chat to your landlord and

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Speaker 2: let them know you know that, to see if you

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Speaker 2: can negotiate with them. I always encourage people to do

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Speaker 2: that because you might be surprised about the response that

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Speaker 2: you get. But the other thing is, if you are

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Speaker 2: experiencing rental stress, you are on a lower income, reach

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Speaker 2: out to the community housing providers. We've got eight registered

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Speaker 2: ones here in an Order territory at the moment. Ventures

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Speaker 2: one of them, but Yali Weng are a registed housing provider.

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Speaker 2: I think anglicare a registed housing provider. The WCA I

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Speaker 2: think a aregisted housing provider as our team health, so

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Speaker 2: there's a range of them. We've got a registrar here

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Speaker 2: in Wendy Morton that manages that we've got more interested

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Speaker 2: parties in that space. But reach out to a community

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Speaker 2: housing provider and see if they've got put in an

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Speaker 2: application with them, because, as I said, you'll get that

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Speaker 2: rental subsidy.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minnister, I do want to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: situation with the Office of the Children's Commissioner sending out

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Speaker 1: their latest report. They've issued a statement this morning on

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Speaker 1: their third round of independent monitoring of don Dale Youth

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Speaker 1: Detention Center and also Alice Springs Youth Detention Center. Now

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Speaker 1: the Children's Commissioner says that both of those centers lack

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Speaker 1: a therapeutic framework to guide the operations of those centers,

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Speaker 1: that there are staff shortages which have been exasperated by

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Speaker 1: significant increases in detainees. Minister, Have we got staff shortages

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Speaker 1: at don Dale and the Alice Springs Youth Detention Center?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely no. So the Children's Commissioner makes visits and I

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Speaker 2: welcome her work because it does give us that oversight.

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Speaker 2: But I've been to two graduations over the last few

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Speaker 2: months and we've got an additional fifty plus youth Justice

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Speaker 2: officers that are out there. We have two intakes now

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Speaker 2: a year to make sure that we don't get ourselves

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Speaker 2: into that situation. So no, there is no staff shortage

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Speaker 2: at either of our centers. But what I will say,

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Speaker 2: we also have the highest staffing ratio in Australia in

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Speaker 2: this space, Katie so and our offices are well trained.

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Speaker 2: So there's a whole range of activities that occur. But

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Speaker 2: I do want to just put on the record that

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Speaker 2: in that report she talks extensively about H Block and

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Speaker 2: the lockdowns there. What I will say is that there

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Speaker 2: are a small cohort of young people that with very

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Speaker 2: very challenging behaviors and that is what the Children's Commissioner

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Speaker 2: is referring to, that is H Block, and in situations

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Speaker 2: that potentially escalate, we have to put the safety of

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Speaker 2: our staff first. And I think every one of your

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Speaker 2: listeners would absolutely agree with me about that. So I

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Speaker 2: think it's really important to have a bit more information

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Speaker 2: out there about what H block actually is.

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Speaker 3: Minister.

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Speaker 2: Majority of young people in detention are on remand they

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Speaker 2: roll through quite quickly, and they certainly are not you know,

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Speaker 2: predominantly in H Block, So I just wanted to put

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Speaker 2: that on the record today.

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Speaker 1: What kind of scenarios or what kind of situations have

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Speaker 1: unfolded in H Block which would deem a lockdown, Catie.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go into individual situations because these

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Speaker 2: are operational things. We have very well trained youth detention

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Speaker 2: officers that are trained to de escalate situations, but it's

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Speaker 2: always about putting their safety first. Katie. You would also

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Speaker 2: understand that these kids aren't in there for no reason.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of them come in with very complex issues.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them have faz D, some of them

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Speaker 2: end up being put onto with NDIS plans, and some

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Speaker 2: of them have extremely challenging behaviors that our youth justice

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Speaker 2: officers have to deal with. And one of the ways

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Speaker 2: to manage that is to have a lockdown. I mean

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Speaker 2: that would be in the world. You know, things aren't

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Speaker 2: able to be escalated, but that's all part of operation

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Speaker 2: on the day to day business.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that they're pretty dangerous situations though for

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Speaker 1: those staff, and that the staff for risk to actually

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Speaker 1: have to go into a lockdown.

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Speaker 2: Katie. I think it's very clear that young people in

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Speaker 2: detention with very challenging behaviors. There is an element of

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Speaker 2: risk in that work. All our youth Justice officers know that.

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Speaker 2: That's why we train them to the standards that we

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Speaker 2: train them in. They have ongoing training. It's not an

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Speaker 2: easy situation. Those kids don't go in there, you know,

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Speaker 2: for no reason at all. You know. We do try

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Speaker 2: to divert as many young people as we can, but

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Speaker 2: we have to have a balance between that and community

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Speaker 2: safety and they include the safety of our staff. So

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Speaker 2: they've got operational procedures. I have to say, Katie, since

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Speaker 2: we've taken over and we've separated Youth Justice, we haven't

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Speaker 2: had police having to arrive and take over the situations there.

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Speaker 2: These are protocols in place, operational procedures in play, highly

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Speaker 2: trained staff that respond at any given time, and for

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Speaker 2: their safety they need to lock down and they've gone

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Speaker 2: through the procedures, then that's the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Minister are The ABC reported on Tuesday that government data

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Speaker 1: shows that sixty young people per day have been detained

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Speaker 1: in Darwen and Alla Springs during November, which is almost

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Speaker 1: double the daily figure from six months ago.

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Speaker 3: Is that number correct? Yes, that's correct now, I know that.

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Speaker 1: Use Justice advocates say that the increase is directly linked

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Speaker 1: to changes made by the government earlier this year when

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Speaker 1: it comes to that bail legislation, which makes it harder

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Speaker 1: for young people to get bail.

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Speaker 3: Would you agree that that is the case.

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Speaker 2: So that bail legislation or those changes to the legislation

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Speaker 2: did a lot of things, and one of those was

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Speaker 2: to target repeat offenders. I was just chatting last week

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Speaker 2: to the police and I asked that very question, and

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Speaker 2: in fact, that is exactly what's happening. So that comes

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Speaker 2: back to what I just said to before about unity safety, Katie.

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Speaker 2: We need to make sure that we balance that up.

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Speaker 2: So those young people in there are mostly on remand

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Speaker 2: they go through that system. We keep them in there

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Speaker 2: as little time as possible. But whilst they're in there,

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Speaker 2: they do get the system as greatly reformed since twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: so they get health checks, they some of them do

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Speaker 2: end up with NDIS plans, they get case management, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't stop there. So if they're on remand and

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Speaker 2: they go to court and then they're center perhaps or

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Speaker 2: they are put to diversion, what happens is they've got

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Speaker 2: a case manager a UTH outreach officer that manages them.

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Speaker 2: They then get in with a back on track provider

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Speaker 2: and we work through with them to try and turn

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Speaker 2: their lives around. That's the whole system. So that number

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Speaker 2: is a very small it's a cohort of young people,

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Speaker 2: but we are working with hundreds of young people across

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory every day, and in particular we're working

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Speaker 2: with their families now through family responsibility agreements and we've

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Speaker 2: got over fifty of those in place now. So there's

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Speaker 2: a whole range of things that are going on. It's

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Speaker 2: not just a you know, oh, there's sixty young people

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Speaker 2: in detention, because tomorrow I could have as low as

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Speaker 2: fifty because the numbers do turn around depending on court dates,

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Speaker 2: and most of those young people are on Remand now.

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Speaker 1: I'm very mindful of your time. I know that Parliament

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Speaker 1: is sitting this morning. I do want to just very

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Speaker 1: quickly ask you. You said you've now got fifty of

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Speaker 1: those family responsibility agreements in place in the territory at

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Speaker 1: the moment, how are they working.

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Speaker 2: So those fifty families that have agreed to work with

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Speaker 2: us on what their contributing factors are to the young

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Speaker 2: person's behavior. So where we've got a young person perhaps

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Speaker 2: escalating and some of their behaviors, and you often hear

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Speaker 2: the community say, well, what's the penalty for the family,

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Speaker 2: And you'll often go back and you'll find that family

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Speaker 2: has got some complex issues of its own. So those

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Speaker 2: individually tailored family responsibility agreements are where the family agrees

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Speaker 2: to do particular things so that yes, if that young

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Speaker 2: person ends up in Remand or in Dondale for a

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Speaker 2: sentence period, when they go back, the family is in

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Speaker 2: a much more robust place and it's actually addressing its issues.

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Speaker 2: So it might be, you know that there's some factors

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Speaker 2: of domestic violence and alcohol. Those agreements will actually outline

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Speaker 2: what steps the family needs to take to fix those

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Speaker 2: things within the family environment. And it's more than family.

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Speaker 2: It could be you know, other family members in a

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Speaker 2: broader context actually there to support the young person to

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Speaker 2: make a change. So often those young people will come

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Speaker 2: out with a really good sense of where they're headed,

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Speaker 2: and they in the past might have gone back to

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Speaker 2: a dysfunctional family. And so the agreements are tailored individually

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Speaker 2: to those families and it holds them to account. As

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Speaker 2: I said repeatedly, that should the family not agree to

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Speaker 2: those things and not make those changes, then there's always

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Speaker 2: a child protection notification trigger at the end of it.

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Speaker 2: But so far, so good. Those families have come on

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Speaker 2: board with us, and we're working intensively with them and

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Speaker 2: with plans pace, and we support them to go and

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Speaker 2: make those changes in their life that will make a difference.

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Speaker 1: Now, just finally, I do want to ask you this morning,

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Speaker 1: there are calls from youth advocates to raise the age

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Speaker 1: of criminal responsibility after it was reported that a ten

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Speaker 1: year old was also in don Dale. My assumption is

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Speaker 1: that that ten year old is not locked up for

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Speaker 1: a minor offense, that obviously something pretty serious has had

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Speaker 1: to happen. Obviously none of us want to see a

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Speaker 1: ten year old locked up.

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Speaker 3: But when this age, when.

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Speaker 1: This age is obviously raised, as a Chief Minister has

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Speaker 1: committed to, and I know it's been committed to by

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Speaker 1: the government, what is going to happen with a ten

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Speaker 1: year old who is seriously breaking the law.

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, it's what's happening to ten year olds right

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Speaker 2: now that are breaking the law. So what I'm proud

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Speaker 2: of is that since twenty seventeen, this is the first

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Speaker 2: ten year old that's actually been into the system and

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Speaker 2: only for a short period of time, I can assure you,

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Speaker 2: and I want to call this person a child because

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Speaker 2: anybody at home that's got a ten year old knows

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Speaker 2: that they are still children. But you are right in

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Speaker 2: terms of what they've done, and there needs to be

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Speaker 2: a way around that community safety balance that I've spoken

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Speaker 2: about a number of times. That's got to be front

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Speaker 2: and center in our considerations. However, there are ten year olds,

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Speaker 2: eleven year old's, twelve year olds that are currently going

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Speaker 2: through the diversionary system and hopefully at the other end,

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Speaker 2: and we're doing some work around what that looks like

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Speaker 2: that you know, they're not reoffending. So that's the critical

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Speaker 2: part of it. When we raise the age to twelve,

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Speaker 2: those young people will continue to go through the system

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Speaker 2: that they're already going through. So I think it's a

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Speaker 2: testament to say that one ten year old, yes, is

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Speaker 2: in detention right now. Actually I don't believe that they

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Speaker 2: are in detention right now. They did go into detention

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Speaker 2: for a few days whilst the decision was made around

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Speaker 2: a diversion, but it happens all the time. That's already

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Speaker 2: in place, Katie, and I can assure your listeners that

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Speaker 2: those young people are getting a lot of support and

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Speaker 2: lost a lot of intense case management to make sure

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Speaker 2: that they can make a change.

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Speaker 1: All right, Minister for Territory, Families and Urban Housing, Cape Warden,

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Speaker 1: we are going to have to leave it there. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time today. I know it's always busy when

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Speaker 1: Parliament's sitting.

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Speaker 2: Those rap bells are just about do ring. Katie, thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me on today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you