WEBVTT - Your questions about vaping, answered 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.320 Already and this this is the Daily Off. 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:04.520 This is the Daily OS. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:16.119 Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.800 the Daily OS. It is Sunday, the twenty fourth of November. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:19.880 I'm Billy, I'm Sam. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.600 Happy Sunday, Billy, Happy Sunday. We're not usually in your 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:24.079 ears on a Sunday, so it's a bit of a 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.000 treat to be here today. We are bringing you a 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:31.159 bonus episode. We are intercepting your podcast feeds midweekend to 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.920 answer all the questions you have about vaping. So you 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.519 might have seen on our Instagram stories last week that 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.720 we asked you what do you not know about vaping 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.600 that you would like us to explain. It was no 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.680 surprise to us that we got hundreds and hundreds of 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.000 messages from you. There was so much that you wanted 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.040 us to explain to you, and so today we are 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.160 going to answer as much as we can. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.280 I'm really excited for this chat. I feel like it's 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.640 one of those really practical, relevant conversations. Just a note 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.200 before we get into it. This episode is sponsored by 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.440 the Australian Department of Health and Age Care, but they've 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.280 had no editorial influence over the content. We're sharing in 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.919 today's episode. So, Billy, I think before we get into 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.640 the specific questions, let's go right back to basics. Can 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.440 you explain to me what a vape actually is. 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.320 Yeah, we're going right right back to the very basics. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.920 But I do think this is important because a vape 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.840 is something that we see all the time, but we 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.880 probably have never actually looked into what exactly it is. 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.280 So a vape is a battery operated device that can 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.039 look like a cigarette, a cigar or also you know, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.640 other common items like highlighters or even a USB. And 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.600 often the illegal vapes people get on the black market 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.920 are quite colorful. That can kind of be one of 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.480 the defining features of many illegal vapes, and that's because 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.000 they're designed to appeal to the youth market, which is 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.280 part of the whole problem that these products are so 0:01:55.360 --> 0:02:00.440 explicitly designed for the youth. And the mist of vapor 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.960 that is emitted from vapes is made by heating up 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.360 liquid chemicals, which is what you breathe in when you 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:08.320 are vaping. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.000 And that's where nicotine enters the conversation. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.640 Yes, and so one of the key substances in most 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.920 fates is nicotine, which is also in cigarettes and is 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.560 an extremely addictive substance. Sam, do you know why nicotine 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:21.480 is so addictive? 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.799 It taps into the cravings part of your brain. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:26.760 Right, Yeah, But do you know the science behind it? 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:27.680 Absolutely not. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:29.840 You've never looked into it. That's so surprising. I know. 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.320 I'm a top line guy, So when I. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.919 Was researching for this podcast, I found it really interesting 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.000 the science behind why nicotine is so addictive. And so 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.359 it's because it causes the brain to release dopamine, which 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.639 are probably heard of as a fappy Yeah, it's the 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.760 feel good chemical. But the effect of nicotine wears off 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.640 super super quickly, which is then what causes this vicious 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.480 cycle where the brain tricks you into thinking you need 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.440 to vape to feel satisfied or to get that dopamine 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.000 hit again, and that is how it becomes so addictive. 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.400 Wow, it's easy to understand then, how quickly that cycle 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:06.919 can evolve. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.120 Yeah, because you get that hit and then it wears 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.960 off really quickly, and then you do it again to 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.079 feel the exact same thing. 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.520 And then if you have an addictive personality that can 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.320 also kind of highlight or accentuate how quickly that happens. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.280 And another thing to note about a lot of vapes 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.919 is that a lot of research has shown that most 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.880 vps that say they don't contain nicotine actually do. And 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.520 that is another part of why so many vapes are dangerous, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.080 because you don't know what is actually inside of them, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.880 even if you think that you do. Another thing that 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.760 I found super interesting when researching for this is that 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.080 vapes can actually have more nicotine in them than cigarettes. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.080 So sometimes they have up to five times more nicotine 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:48.920 than a cigarette. I had no idea about that. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:50.720 And think about that as an image, Think about five 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.400 cigarettes in your mouth. It's quite a start kind of 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.040 physical representation of how much nicotine is in a vape. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.960 Yeah, and we'll get more into this, but just at 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.200 a very high level at the top. There is a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.360 lot of research that tells us how harmful vaping is. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.480 It can cause breathing issues, lung damage, and we also 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.440 know that nicotine dependents can also have an impact on 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:11.280 mental health. 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.880 So, Billy, I feel like we've had this vaping conversation 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.880 now for not a long time, maybe a couple of years. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.160 Where are we at with vapes in Australia? How popular 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.800 are they and how long have you been tracking this story. 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.719 For vapes are so pervasive today, but I think it's 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.360 easy to forget how you know, only a short time ago, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.680 they weren't everywhere. I remember when I first came to 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.080 The Daily, I was about three and a half years ago. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.279 I think it was in my first month that I 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.840 pitched you Sam a story about vapes and you had 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:43.560 never heard of them. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.040 Yeah, I remember that, Billy, and I remember thinking at 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.080 the time that I had kind of seen these things around, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.359 I hadn't even had conversations about what they were. We 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.640 put up the story. You did a fantastic job on 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.800 that piece, and it was one of our most viewed 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.280 pieces of that year. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.559 And every time we do a story on va now, 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.559 it just there's so much engagement. There are so many 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.080 young people really wanting to understand more about what it 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.279 is they are inhaling. Your question, though, was about popularity. 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.359 So let's go through some quick stats. So in twenty sixteen, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.560 eight years ago, it is estimated that about one hundred 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.920 thousand people were using e cigarettes daily. In twenty twenty three, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.760 that jumped to about seven hundred thousand people who are 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:26.800 using them daily. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.400 So you have a seven times in Greece in seven years. 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.080 Yes, and again that is using them daily. That's not 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.400 people who are just using them socially on the weekend. 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.160 That is seven hundred thousand people who use them every 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.560 single day. We also know that this rise can mostly 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.800 be attributed to the uptake of vaping by young people. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.359 So nearly one in ten people aged eighteen to twenty 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:53.440 four are vaping daily in Australia currently currently, and those 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.880 numbers are all according to the National Drug Strategy Household 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.839 Survey which came out in twenty twenty three. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.800 I'm keen to get some questions from the audience and 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.479 put them to you. The first question that caught my 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:09.080 eye was a question about the long term effects of vaping. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.160 As we've just discussed this is an early ish phenomenon. 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.960 What do we know about the longer term effects of 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:16.320 daily vaping. 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.400 So let's go through some of the known effects first 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.800 and then we can discuss long term. So we know 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.400 that vaping can lead to things like lung inflammation, coughing 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.760 and also breathing issues, and people can also experience persistent coughing, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.200 chest pain and also palpitations and respiratory problems. It can 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.840 also result in permanent lung damage and also nicotine poisoning. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.200 And that's the term I've heard more and more recently. 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.320 Can you explain to me a bit more about nicotine 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:43.440 poisoning what that is? 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.479 Yeah, So this happens if you have too much nicotine 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.120 in your body from inhalation or the liquid nicotine in 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.159 a vape is actually swallowed. And you'll know if you 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:59.160 have nicotine poisoning because of symptoms like nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headaches, 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.440 or even feeling really confuse. And it can also make 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.680 you really weak and tired, and we know it is 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.080 becoming more common because of vaping. 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.600 And so those are all symptoms and experiences that nicotine poisoning, 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.880 for example, that you could have on a day where 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:15.960 you're actually vaping. 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.240 Yeah, those are a short term right, So what. 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.240 Do we know about the longer term effects? 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.520 I want to start with brains, the effect that vaping 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.640 can have on our brains. So studies suggest that being 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.240 exposed to nicotine can be harmful for young brains in particular, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.760 which we know is still developing until you're late twenties. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.360 So Sam, your brain hasn't stopped developing yet. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.520 Thank god, because this is all I'm left with. Then 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:39.320 we've got a problem. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.880 So there are several ways research says that vaping can 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.880 impact the brain, things like your mood, impulse control, and 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.760 also learning. And there's also a lot of research that 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.600 tells us that nicotine dependence can have a negative impact 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.160 on mental health. I feel like anecdotally, you know, you 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.760 can see in people around you who might vape, that 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.360 you can really see when vaping has that kind of 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.760 mental health impact. But just to confirm, like, there is 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.080 research there that confirms. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.080 That even if it's the agitation or trying to figure 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.280 out how to kind of leave a situation in order 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:15.800 to go and have a vape, it's all of those 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.280 things that can contribute to that state of anxiety. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.640 Yeah, and interesting you bring up the word anxiety, because 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.880 the World Health Organization does say that vaping has been 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.640 directly linked to anxiety disorders, right, although one thing to 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.240 note is that research is limited in assessing of vaping 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:36.600 behaviors or mental health symptoms come first, So kind of 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.040 like a question about the chicken. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.640 Or the egg there, and do we have any information 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.040 about whether people are moving from cigarettes to vaping or 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.400 from vaping the cigarettes or you know in terms of 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.920 that causation point, is one coming before the other. 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.120 Yes, so we know that young people who use e 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:55.560 cigarettes are more likely to start smoking cigarettes than non vapors, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.439 and I think that's something that is important to bring 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.040 up in the conversation about the long term health effects 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.319 of vaping, because we know that if you are then 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.880 moving on to cigarettes, there is again a lot of 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.720 research about the long term effects of cigarettes that you know, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.679 I don't think that we need to get into. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.960 Because that's pretty well established. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:14.559 Yeah, exactly. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.000 And I've actually heard a couple of people just anecdotically 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.040 actually take up cigarettes to get off vapes, and it's 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.319 that kind of situation that can be really concerning. 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:26.000 And so dangerous. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.800 But then let's keep going with this long term effects discussion. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.679 We've talked about the brain. Are there still some things though, 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.559 that we don't know about the long term effects of vaping? 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.120 Yes, there is still stuff that we don't know. Essentially, 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.120 like we said before, vaping hasn't been around long enough, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.280 or at least as popular as it is now for 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.640 long enough for there to be enough research about those 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.160 longer term effects. So we don't know yet how vaping 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.040 excessively or vaping even just occasionally in your twenties will 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.559 impact you in your sixties, because the people in their 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.760 sixties today weren't vaping when they we're in their twenties. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.040 To all of these yeah, all of this research is 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:04.680 going to come out. It's just going to take forty 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:05.880 years for us all to grow up. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.240 Yeah, and that's why there is this concern about whether 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.200 we are just repeating the mistakes that were made with 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.160 the generation that grew up with smoking. One thing that 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.200 I also just want to mention that I haven't yet 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.480 is that we do know that the risk of harm 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.559 by being exposed to these chemicals is increased by frequent 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.840 vaping over a period of time. So we know that 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.040 the more that you vape, the more harmful. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.160 It will be. And Billy, when you were explaining that 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.880 before my ears pricked up with the C word cancer 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.200 that you mentioned in there, we actually also had a 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.840 question from the audience about if there's a link between 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.440 vaping and lung cancer, what can you tell me about 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.000 that particular relationship. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.520 So more research again is needed in this area. But 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:52.000 in March, new research was published in Cancer Research that 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.080 revealed people who vape for a year or more and 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.920 who have also never smoked before have similar changes in 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.520 their cells to smokes who go on to develop lung cancer. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.319 And it was that research that actually resulted in one 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:11.480 six hundred respiratory health professionals publishing a media release earlier 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.040 this year which talked about the possibility that e cigarette 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.560 use could also lead to lung cancer. So there are 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.439 a lot of professionals and experts in this area who 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.959 are really concerned about the link between vaping and lung cancer. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.000 And they also expressed, like I said before, concern that 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.320 we are making the same mistakes we made with cigarettes. 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.040 And as what often happens with these trends that emerge 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.040 relatively fast in society and have adverse health effects, be 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.240 that physical or mental, the law takes a little while 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.120 to respond and to kind of keep up with developments. 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.199 I want to talk about the law, and I want 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.320 to talk about what the government is doing about the 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.679 rise in vapes. What's the latest in terms of the regulations, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.160 and where do you think it's going to go next. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.640 Yeah, this is a great question that we got a 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.960 lot from the audience because it has been changing incrementally 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.280 over the past few years. So it's understandable why there 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.120 is a lot of confusion about what exactly the law is. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.959 So I'll tell you the latest. In July, Australia became 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.040 the first country in the world to ban the sale 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.160 of all vapes outside of pharmacies, and that law meant 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.280 that the only legal way to access a vape was 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.360 from a pharmacy if you had a prescription. So there's 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.040 been this real push from the government to stop people 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.319 from accessing vapes altogether unless you're wanting to access a 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.360 vape because you're trying to quit smoking or to manage 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:37.560 nicotine dependence. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.920 And then there was this new law in October, right. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.079 Yes, So in October a new law again came into 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.040 effect that allows adults to buy vapes from a pharmacy 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.520 without a prescription where state and territory laws allow. Did 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:52.360 you know that was the thing. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.080 Sud No, that's really interesting. So you can still go 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.880 to a pharmacy without the prescription and get a vape that. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.240 Way, yes, and that is specifically for people who are 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.240 trying to access a vape to quit smoking or to 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.680 manage their nicotine dependence. But to answer your question, yes, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.360 if you fall into one of those two buckets. You 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.480 can go to a pharmacy to access a vape without 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:15.680 a prescription. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.920 And so presumably that would lead to a conversation with 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.840 a pharmacist. That has to happen before you can actually 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:21.520 buy the vape. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.120 Yes, so you have to have a conversation with a pharmacist, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.440 you're right. And also it's only available for people who 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.480 are aged eighteen and over, so it's only available for adults. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.840 For people who are under eighteen, they do need a prescription. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.840 And I imagine the vapes that you can get from 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.959 the pharmacy are not the bright, colorful, flavored, no kind 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.720 of ones that you used to get from convenience stores. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.760 Yeah, so the vapes you can get at a pharmacy 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.079 are obviously not the same as the ones that are 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.040 being sold illegally. They don't come in bright packaging or 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.560 in those fruity flavors. They do have nicotine in them, 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.120 but only below a certain concentration level. You can buy 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.040 vapes from a far pharmacy with a higher concentration level 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.560 of nicotine, but you do need a prescription for that. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.839 So, just to be clear and kind of wrap all 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.880 of that into a very tidy, little bow. It means 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.680 you can buy vapes with nicotine if you don't have 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.040 a prescription to help you quit smoking of vaping by 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:18.959 going to a pharmacy if you're over eighteen. 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.160 Got it a plus student, right, So. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.560 There's a couple of terms and cognitions there. Yes, and 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.720 there's quite a lot of pieces to that puzzle. Do 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.000 we know if people have actually been using that option? 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.440 We actually do. We only just found out. So in 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.160 a recent Senate estimates it was revealed that three thy 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.920 five hundred people had accessed a vape from a pharmacy 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.920 in the month of October. So that's not including vapes 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.920 that were obtained from a pharmacist with a prescription. That 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.920 is three thy five hundred people who accessed a vape 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.040 without a prescription from a pharmacy. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.400 So that's a good number, that three and a half thousand, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.720 but it's obviously not as much as the total number 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.600 of people in Australia who vape. I think we can 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.000 all agree on that, yees. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.680 So we know that there is an estam mated one 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.200 million people around the country who vape. 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.720 So you know, we can be adults here and have 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.000 a conversation about the fact that there are still vapes 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:13.320 available illegally from convenience stores. How are they still so available? 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.600 I mean, it's like many other illegal substances that people 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.080 are still managing to access them because there are businesses 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.200 that are selling them illegally. And also the reforms have 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.160 only come into effect very recently, so there still needs 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.480 to be some time for it to really take effect. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.920 But important to say that any business like vape shops 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.400 or you mentioned convenience stores, sam, if they are selling vapes, 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.040 they are doing that illegally and that is something that 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.680 the government is trying to crack down on. We know 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.800 that at the start of the year a different piece 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.560 of legislation came into effect which banned the importation of 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.000 disposable vapes. That was really big when it came into effect. 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.720 And that was trying to kind of limit the supply 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.040 of those vapes that are being sold illegally. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.400 Exactly, and since then, nearly six million vapes have been 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.280 seized by authorities in Australia. And that legislation that was 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.320 introduced at the start of the year, it also increased 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.120 the penalties for businesses that are caught illegally selling vapes, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.160 which is why if you are buying vapes from a 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.680 convenience store, which again is illegal, you have probably seen 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.120 the price of them go up. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.960 It's really interesting how there's kind of different strategies to 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.240 try and counter this now black market of disposable vapes 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.120 from a supply point of view, from a selling point 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.640 of view. So, Billy, I'm somebody who has had asthma 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.120 for a very long time. I'm famous in the office 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.520 for carrying around my PAFFA. I don't vape because it 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.480 would have a negative impact on me pretty clearly straight away. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.640 But I do know that I'm around people who vape, 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.480 and I'm wondering about the effects of secondhand vape vapor. 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.240 Yeah, so interesting. I don't know about people with asthma specifically, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.440 but I do know that the World Health Organization says 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.800 that particularly in indoor settings, it can result in potential 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:00.760 risks to non vapors who are around vapors. But I 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.800 can say on the back of the who there is 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.200 research to say that it could impact you, particularly in 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:08.080 indoor settings. 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.240 Okay, so we've talked through the short term effects of vaping, 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.000 the long term effects of vaping, how the law is working, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.200 and the fact that you can still get some vapes 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.680 for the purpose of trying to quit smoking from pharmacies. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.800 I want to bring all of this together and leave 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.960 everybody with a conversation about what to do if you 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.520 want to quit vaping. Talk me through some of the 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.479 recommendations about how you should go about doing that. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.920 Yeah, And people have different reasons for why they would 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.040 want to quit vaping. Some people are concerned about the 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.399 health effects. Some will quit vaping to feel better for 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.280 their body and mind to feel better. Some of those 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.160 might relate to listeners, or some of them they might 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.679 have a completely other reason for why they would want 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.440 to quit. If you are listening to this and you 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.480 want to quit but don't know how, there are a 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.000 few different places that you can go to to get support. 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.600 So you can go to the my quit Buddy app 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.800 which helps you to track your progress and stay motivated. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.040 There are so many apps out there that really help 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:08.320 you track a whole range. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:09.160 Of habit falling. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.600 Yeah, yeahteresting, And I found it interesting when I was 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.760 researching for this that you could also find one to 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.440 help you quit vaping. You can also call Quitline on 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.560 one three seven eight four eight, where you can confidentially 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.720 speak to a counselor, and another option is also to 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.600 speak to a GP or health professional about the best 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:27.520 way to quit for you. 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.320 I've seen from quite a few people who've kind of 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.240 documented their quitting journeys online that it's not a process 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.840 that's without challenge. You know, there are challenges to this. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.159 Yeah, it's never linear. I think quitting anything is always 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.600 a bit of a challenge. We know that a lot 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.440 of people who have tried to quit vaping have experienced 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:51.080 challenges like cravings, mood swings. Some people experience reastlessness, but 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.680 that is all normal to experience when trying to quit, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.880 and it's just about how to manage them using the 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.360 support services. 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.959 That I just mentioned, and we're going to put those 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.080 support services in today's show notes. Billy, thank you for 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.000 that conversation, and thanks to all the readers as well 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.560 and followers of TDA who reached out with questions, the 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.720 hundreds of questions. I think it's really important for us 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.720 in the news to be having these conversations about these 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.360 issues that feel very live. They feel like they're kind 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.640 of evolving in real time, whether it's from a health 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.480 or a law perspective. So thanks for taking us through 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.399 what is a very complicated area. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:26.359 Thank you so much. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.879 That's all we've got time for on this special Sunday 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:30.640 edition of The Daily Ours. We're going to be back 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.160 in your ears tomorrow morning with a deep dive. Until then, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.600